I. D. Cards on there way
 

I. D. Cards are to be issued, on a voluntary basis, in Manchester from the Autumn at a cost of £30, Will be handy for people without a passport or driving licence:rolleyes:

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i agree with these, will we be able to use them instead of a passport though?

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For the purpose of passing ports ? No.

For ID etc, Yes.

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who else reckons this is teh penalty Manchester is paying for saying NO to congestion charging.......... :D

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A voluntary penalty, ermmm maybe not :p :D

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Of course not, it's because of Manchester's diversity and large youthful population :rolleyes: Yup us kids can't get enough of paying £30 to have a card tell us who we are.

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I`d be all in favour of ID cards if they were FREE.........!

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Free as in you pay for them in taxes rather than pay for them in cash ?

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Yes, that would be fine.............

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the report i saw said between £30/£60 fer em, now seriously ya would have to have rocks in yer head to volunteer to pay that out, i have no objection too them but the spanish one i had costs less than half of that, as no doubt royboy will verify. another example of rip off britain.:rolleyes:

Re: I. D. Cards on there way
 

why???????

they will do nothing to avoid terrorist attacks, contain all data in a single place ( commonly known as a single point of failure in business) add no value whatsoever over teh methods already available to us ( driving licenses, passports, bills etc)

so you want to waste BILLIONS of pounds and risk the failure of the one system giving all your data in one foul swoop for no value whatsoever. No thanks, I'd rather stay as I am.

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As I understand it Jaysay .. only passport holders can apply for the identification cards ... :confused:

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it wont take someone long to be able to 'copy' them

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They were saying that joe public can walk into a post office or chemists an sign up for them, so long as you pay your £30. I don't have a problem with the card, its just what data they will have on them, given the track record of our government at losing, er um data:rolleyes:

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Come on SamF. You missed that one, shame on you.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Don't give him ideas yerself, :rolleyes:

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Well, as usual, a link Jaysay . you will have to go into all the links associated to get the full picture. Will not have so much data (as I understand the article), but would have biometric technology that can be obtained through going through one of their controls.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Manchester launch for ID cards

Get yerself a glass of wine and enjoy ... :D

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I cannot see the point of this, maybe it is because I already carry enough proof of my identity on me most of the time. I have a Photo Driving Licence, a Photo Passport, Bank cards and when working, a Restricted Airside Pass, which I may add, was a hell of a lot harder to obtain than a so called secure Identity Card.
Just another form of control, by a control freak government.
As once said, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is Strength.

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I could think of much better things to do with those billions of pounds. The government would lose its head if it wasn't screwed on. It's not going to prevent terrorism. Waste of money.

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I don't see the point of them, especially if only some people carry them...what are they for? Who will they protect?.......it seems to me that the government have changed their minds so many times about the benefits of them that no-one is sure anymore.
And as for the data they will contain.......do any of you find that the government forgets to levy income tax....or that you get away scott free with not buying a TV licence.......No....now isn't that a surprise....perhaps it is because they know where all of us can be found.......and before long criminals will be cloning them, and adding the appropriate biometric information.......then what? How will you prove you are the real you?
The government has enough information on each and every one of us........and if the scheme takes off then the honest folk will buy this piece of trash, but the dishonest ones will clone an honest persons card to hide their criminal activity.
Freedom...what Freedom??????

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I want one, if only because I won't have to fart about with a fragile piece of paper, issued to me at birth, and my passport, and my utility bills, etc., the next time I'm asked to prove my identity.

We are already numbered from birth with identifying numbers.

I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Unless of course someone's here illegally.

They might have good reason to worry.

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Well Gary, I am not here illegally but I won't be having one......I have absolutely nothing to hide, but I do not trust the government with the information they already have let alone give them more....and biometric stuff at that.
I'll have my fingerprints done if I bust a bank, but until then, they can whistle for them.

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I agree with that Margaret.
My mother claimed a war widows pension fifteen years ago, retrospectivly as my father was killed in 1944.
The lady with the file turned up to check if she was entitled and mentioned a child of the marrage, me, and I am coming up seventy in June.
There is enough on file for all of us who were born and raised in the UK but the problem is not with us.
The records seem to be adequate for nationals but overlooked for immigrants.

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Lifes to short kate, I'll just have the wine:D

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Whats the point of having these cards on a voluntary basis Rindi, if they were saying look you lot you'll do as your told, we know better than you, we're in charge, you will have one of these cards, I could understand it, but to come out and say there will be a trial run in and around Manchester, where A LIMITED NUMBER OF CARDS WILL BE AVAILABLE, is plain daft to me, you can see a would be terrorist queuing at the post office to shell out £30 , can you. Although these cards will have plus points, it will allow the Government to lose all our data in on go instead of a continual drip. drip drip:rolleyes:

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Every man, woman, and child was issued with an identity card in World War II.

I can't recall my granny ever bleating on about her, or anyone else's rights being infringed upon then.

The need for increased security measures was fully accepted.

Since the terrorist war that's been declared on western democracy will probably never end, I have no problem with idenity cards, now or in the future.

If it saves one innocent life I'll think it's been worthwhile carrying one.

To all those who chose to carry a mobile phone, do remember your choice allows your every movement to be tracked, as well as storing your every contact.

Perhaps the civil liberties mob should start campaigning against mobiles.

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Gary, with the greatest respect our borders were far less porous in those times and many ordinary folk.....I'm talking about the folk like you and me didn't travel very far.
Another thing is that these identity cards did not contain biometric details.......and there was little point in reproducing these cards for nefarious purposes.
Alas, times have changed......criminals have the ability to clone these cards....substitute their biometric details for yours....and hey presto your identity is well and truly stolen.
During wartime I don't believe the population were expected to pay for their identity card either.......it is another stealth tax......and to have the whole of the population wanting one of these cards, the government are going to have to come up with some very salient reasons why they are necessary....and terrorism isn't one of them.

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The last time we had a thread on identity cards we agreed to disagree on the subject, and I guess that is still the same, as neither of us will change our minds on this issue.:D

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Looks like us pensioners may get a discount though Margaret ... :D

I have no argument with owning an identity card ... how many times I have been to the bank, etc., and forgotten to take proof of who I am and have had to trail back to my car for driving licence. :silly: Dizzy I know.

Would be so easy to have one of these cards in my purse.

It is difficult to understand all the information given in the media, just get the impression that this voluntary introduction is just to find out how it will work, etc., and only being used as a convenience at the moment. ?

The government are stating will be impossible to clone one of these cards, but hey, who knows eh ?

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BBC NEWS | Wales | Missile data found on hard drives


Launch codes for intercontinental missiles, bank deatils including 50 Billion dollar transactions, and all sorts of other lovely info available free as it is.

Do you really want absolutely everything including your biometric details given away so freely?

Lets put it simply. Untill we have a goverment and IT systems department capable of making data 'secure' then it should be an absolute no brainer to NOT go anywhere near ID cards. they are a bunch of incompetents and handing over the key to your whole life is a scary thought to me.

To Garinda, I have yet to hear a single potential case where a ID card could save an 'innocent' life. Please let me know if you have.

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I can understand that some people may well have with the cost of Identity cards. But for me the principle is sound.

The only people I would have thought that would truly fear I.D cards would be those with something to hide.

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Whilst i agree principle is sound, pleasing yerself if have one is not! the fact that data cannot be securely looked after is not, n the cost is ridiculous, on that basis i'm wi entwisi.:)

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It's not like the data on you collected will be anything to do with your religious/crime convictions ... just data to prove who you are.

Had to laugh ... gentleman on the Radio yesterday who was against the card, thought that transvestites would be asked to carry two cards .... :rofl38:

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it matters not to me what data is stored on em, its the simple fact they have NOT demonstrated it can be Secured, in fact the opposite.:)

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There is no valid reason to have one of these expensive pieces of plastic.......I am rarely asked to identify myself at the bank as I have been a customer there for over 40 years.....and my bank card and pin number suffices for ID.
Bernard I have nothing to hide.......but still will not get one of these.
Anyway criminals won't carry them....or if they do they are likely to belong to someone who has nothing to hide.........I do not trust the government with any more of my personal details...they already have enough.

And Gary, yes.....I guess we will have to agree that we hold differing opinions on this pithy subject.

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The cost of rolling I.D cards out across the country are high, but I suppose with security comes a cost.

I think that some of the arguments around the data thing are totally spurious. I would have no problem with having an I.D Card.

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i have no problem with having one Bernard, my problem is wi the ******* who safeguard our data, plus the other things i mentioned.

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Not if you are drawing out a large amount of cash though Margaret. I think it is if the amount you wish to draw is over the amount you are allowed every day from the cash machine.

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I am not suggesting for one moment Margaret that you have something to hide. But there are people out there who clearly have something to hide.

And if the price of carrying one of these pieces of plastic around is increased security than I think it's price worth paying.

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how will it increase security if its voluntary?:confused:

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That's the bit I don't understand Cashy .. so presumed was a sort of voluntary practice run, to see if they worked ?

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I truly fear them, because I wouldn't trust this shower of incompetents to run a chip shop, never mind set up and run something like this securely and efficiently.

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Voluntary or not, I think given the chance the majority of people would have no objection to carrying an I.D card.

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thats no argument Bernard, the majority are not terrorists.:rolleyes:

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Which ever Government is in power you would thought in this day and age that personal data could be kept secure.

I still think the principle of I.D cards is right,irrespective of some of the perceived problems.

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the principle is right IMHO. but the problems i don't think are perceived, they have already occurred with various Data.

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It isn't, though, as has been proved time and time again! And I don't think it would be secure under t'other lot either, but, that's not the point, as the Tories and Lib-Dems are against it.

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Kate, I have not been asked for ID by my bank when drawing any amount of money out of my account....and there have been occasions when I have drawn in excess of £5000......the only time I am asked for ID is when I do Ma's banking and my own debit card plus my pin number is identity enough for them......besides I am recognised by most of the tellers

Re: I. D. Cards on there way
 

Bernard, tell me how you think these bits of plastic will increase your security?
Unless of course you think that the police are going to stop people randomly to check their ID....and as I have said before, the people who are up to no good will find ways of cloning cards of honourable individuals.

For a kick off this government does not know who is resident in this country, and whether they have a legal right to be here....and seem impotent to deal with people who should not be here in the first place.

Re: I. D. Cards on there way
 

You might be happy living in a country with terrorist cells of illegal immigrants, beavering away, plotting to bomb us.

I'm not.

Re: I. D. Cards on there way
 

I'd also think it was worth carrying an identity card if it meant it was harder for illegal immigrants to simply disappear, once they are here.

'At one college in Manchester that claims to have more than 100 students — most of them from North West Frontier Province in Pakistan — only two turned up for classes yesterday.'

Bogus foreign students free to flout new laws - Times Online

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The wartime ID card did not require you to be fingerprinted like a criminal.
It didn't cost billions and billions, which could be much better used. Theres uproar because the councillors are now entitled to £15 more for a meal. ID cards is throwing billions of pounds down the drain, for a cause that will not do a thing to counter terrorism.

It was also a temporary measure in wartime, not a permnant shift of the role of the state and the individual. People lost their lives in World War 2 to preserve this countries liberty. Now that liberty is being eroded from within.

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That's the whole point Rindi, god knows its easy enough to steal peoples identities now, they forge credit cards, passports, so these I. D. Cards will be easy. But the whole stupidity of this cockeyed experiment is that is voluntary and it costs £30, I suppose guide lines will be issued saying all terrorist suspects must have one of these cards, its like everything else these clowns do its cockamamie, don't understand why Gordon didn't announce it on U Tube

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Well, 3 of the 4 July 7 bombers were English, born in Yorkshire. We never needed ID cards when the IRA were around, after Lockerbie, but do now.

If it can be proved that carrying one will deter crime, illegal immigrants or terrorism then where do I sign up.

However I don't believe a word that Gordon Frown and his merry men say.

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that is the most pathetic comment ive heard ya make, i and everyone else whoever took residencia in spain were fingerprinted, which was imprinted on the card, no one i ever knew regarded it like you state, really you should aspire to leader of the P.C. brigade.:rolleyes:

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OK .. fair enough Margaret. I am with the Natwest, and have been for 45 years now. Even though people I know have been behind the counter, they have still insisted on the rules. :(

Another one you have to watch is the foreign exchange bureaus ... this was another trail back to me car.

No, probably the war time card didn't cost billions Andrew .. just millions .. LOL. No computers then. Although less population at the time.

The three data bases in this case will not be monitored by the Government, an Independent Body ... whatever that means.

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Quote;
The three data bases in this case will not be monitored by the Government, an Independent Body ... whatever that means.

C.O.Piers and son,probably!:hehetable

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For someone who hasnt a photo driving licence, who hasnt got an up to date passport, who cant find their birth certificate, one of these cards will be useful. Its okay for those of you who has a driving licence even one of the old paper ones but for those of us who doesnt what happens if they ask for id ... utility bill .. who carries one of those around with them unless theyre paying it .... your birth certificate - who knows where that is at a given time, and do you carry it around with you?

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I kind of agree with you on this one cashy, modern times need modern technology, during the war we didn't have the same tech as we have today, if we are going to eventually have these cards (which I very much doubt), it will have to include something like finger prints or they just be a waste of time, but I still can't see how anyone will be able to police the issuing of these cards, there are countless numbers of people already in this country and nobody has any idea where they are, but If Gordy asks nicely I'm sure they will all report to the nearest immigration centre and gladly sign up, mind you I've just seen a flock of flying pigs flying past my window too:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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My bus pass has photo ID....but not my fingerprints or any other biometric information.
I do not believe in the integrity of anyone who is going to make money out of this scam....and anyone who is running it will not be a 'not for profit' organisation.

Re: I. D. Cards on there way
 

Do you know Jen I'm in exactly the same boat as you, oh I have a disabled parking badge with my mugshot on it, the only thing missing is a row of numbers across the bottom, but it will do for me:D

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The introduction of identity cards at the time weren't a temporary measure. It's only because we thankfully won that war that they were phased out.
They can only be viewed as temporary with the benefit of hindsight.

Sadly the war that's been declared against western democracy will be without end.

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What is on the card that needs to be secured.

As for cost 5 billion works out at £80 each.

If they made it 6 and a bit billion each they could have paid for all our cards as well. hardly worth fannying around for another billion quid is it?

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I wonder how many murders, rapes etc could be solved if everyone in the country was fingerprinted and had a dna sample taken.

Its no wonder so many people are against it is it?

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Birth certificates mean nothing. I could get a copy of yours

http://local.direct.gov.uk/LDGRedire...GSL=323&LGIL=0

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I think after a certain date we should all have to carry an ID card with us. I watch the UK Border program on the box. They have to be able to prove someone should not be here. That is wrong. The person should have to prove they can be here or they should be locked up. So no ID card and you get locked up.

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I'd definitely be locked up.

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And if it was the law I would have no problem with you being locked up if you broke it.

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I can prove who my mother was, who my father was, when I was born, where I was was born.
I have a driving licence and a passport, one which I qualified for the other I am entitled to.
I can prove where I have lived for the last seventy years and how much I have paid into the system.
I have one driving conviction for speeding and that is recorded.
If I am stopped by the authorities on the road, as I have, whilst driving a van, all the information held on me and my wife was checked there and then on the roadside within five minutes..........am I claiming benifits, No......am I licenced to drive Yes...is the vehicle insured Yes.....is the vehicle overloaded, No....Is the vehicle taxed, Yes.
Who the hell needs an ID card?

Re: I. D. Cards on there way
 

Margaret some places will not accept the bus pass as id ... it doesnt have your address on or your date of birth .. just your name and your photo. I've tried it ...

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I think they are more useful to prove who should not be here. You should be so don't have a problem.

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Now we are cooking on gas. :)

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Like Royboy, I have a professional qualification which can be checked.....I have worked and paid taxes in this country all of my life...the government know where to pay my pension to, they know where to take my taxes from.....I have been resident in the Accrington district for almost 62 years.....and as a result appear on the register of voters......I have completed every census that has been sent to me......I belong here.......and I won't be having an ID card......I believe that it contravenes my Human Rights.

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I am guilty of nothing.......why should I have my fingerprints taken?
Biometric details stored.....details which could be used for something which I do not sanction.

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They can see that it is you though.......don't we look at peoples faces to identify them anymore?

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they can see it is you margaret, but they will not necessarily accept it, as i discovered when i tried to open a bank account in the year 2000, its probably even more stupid 9 years on.:)

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Because we only have your word for that.

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Errm sometimes

http://www.hyscience.com/burka.jpg

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Is this a serious subject or should we allow neil fo make fun of the subject?

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It was a serious comment. She could be a murderer they have been after for years. So could you or I. I have nothing to hide so am not scared about having one.

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if that is the case then I don't see any reason for having an ID card..I suppose some may want to have one just as a back up.

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Ha..one of them is texting Bagpuss with the latest footy scores. :D

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How do you know one of them isn't Bagpuss? ;)

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I don't wear a veil, and I have given my opinions of this subject in another thread for those who wish to look that up.

And Neil as for the possibility of me being a murderer/criminal.....isn't the concept 'Innocent until proven Guilty'.........because I have nothing to hide does not mean that I want anymore of my personal details in the public domain for God knows whose scrutiny.

I am entitled to reside in this country......the ones who aren't entitled to will not be carrying ID cards.......I cannot see an effective way of scrutinising the ID cards to eliminate those who do not belong here........and in any case, this government won't deport those who should be deported because of their criminal activity...so tell me what, exactly is the point?

And as far as being locked up, well, maybe sometimes that doesn't seem such a bad prospect......I will be warm, fed, be given opportunites to study and have healthy leisure activities, all paid for by the tax payer......personally though I would rather be transported.

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Exactly Margaret, what we should be doing is making it a requirement of law that foreign nationals coming to live work or study in this country should have I. D. cards, if when asked they can't produce one, then the next plane home

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That doesn't make sense.

If when challenged to produce an identity card, they could just say they don't have one because they live here.

Which because you think we all shouldn't have one, would make that a perfectly reasonable excuse, and off they go, free to do God knows what.

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that is exactly were things should be at! but no party has the balls to implement this into law, only a mug would think otherwise.I.M.H.O.:)

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it's all so simple ain't it Jaysay...and your lot will sort it all out and we will all live in a paradise ;)

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Well they make a better fist of it than this showers open door policy thats for sure:(

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Well in this day and age with all the technology around it will not be secure as there will always be a criminal element with the knowhow to use/abuse the info. It may be volentery but how many would take it up? As to those with something to hide then they will find ways to avoid it as long as possible. The open door policy will make it as about as enforcable as as using a rice paper wall to stop a runaway train. These people would vanish before they could be issued one. Good idea bad way to get it up and running.

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Why should anyone who has got and paid for a Passport, have to get one of these as well????


Best Regards - Taggy

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Total and Utter waste of Money.

Wonder which corperation would be given the contract to make these and what (If Any) assossiation people in high places have in said company.:rolleyes:

Why would I need one, can anyone give me 1 or 2 reasons why I would benefit from such a card? No - Didnt think so.

Wait for the Id implats, now that will be fun.:D