White Wash at Westminster
 

Well Gordon has decide to have a public enquiry about the Gulf War, the only thing is it ain't public, its to be held totally in camera, so that anything controversial won't come out, even them the report won't come out until after the General Election. So much for open and honest Government, the first chance he has and he bottles it. There is no doubt that some parts should me kept in secret, to protect national security, but just what went on in the run up to the war should be open and honest, pigs are flying over Ossy as I write:(

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

Come on Jaysay, you are a man of the world....you really didn't expect anything else did you?
It is a farce.......and I hope it will be like the MP's expenses fiasco, that someone will 'leak' information that will allow the truth into the public domain.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

Maggie did the same thing wi the "Falklands" Inquiry don't agree wi it, but not surprised ya omitted that fact.:rolleyes:

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Public Enquiry, Never, we will get told what they want us to know, unless it gets out through other channels.

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The Falklands war was all about OUR Sovereign Territory cashy, Iraq it seems wasn't about WMDs, but the American lust for oil, aided and abetted by Blair in his quest to being World Supremo and good all round egg, pass the sick bowl :s_sick::s_sick:

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

it was an enquiry into a war, which is what iraq is also, "Both" are being denied from the public domain. i fail to see yer differance, i make excuses fer no party unlike you.:D

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The whole thing about the invasion of Iraq by the US and the Uk (let's cut the bs about the "coalition" ... it wasn't) is really confusing, but I don't think you need an inquiry ... why hash over what was so obviously a contrived excuse for kicking the crap out of a leader whose policies you don't agree with? If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck and swims like a duck, then it's probably a goddamned duck ... you don't need to spend million of bucks trying to prove it's really an elephant. Many countries, my own among them, looked at the same evidence that Britain and the US did, and saw no convincing evidence for the existence of WMDs .... Why? It's not because we are more perceptive .... the evidence, or lack of it, was there for everyone to see .... wide open ... no mystery, no smoke, no mirrors. I can understand why Bush decided on the war, but, for the life of me, I can't see why you Brits went along with it. Were your bullshlt deflectors not working in the weeks running up to the war? I mean, it was so obvious that the war was wrong, a real no-brainer.

And for Jaysay: if there are pigs flying over Ossy, a reinforced umbrella might be in order if you venture outside:D

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I'll pass on the brolly Eric and stay indoors I've been dumped on from a great hight far to often:D

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It appears Lord Butler, the author of the official report into the Gulf War has criticised the governments plans to hold this new enquiry behind closed doors. In a speech to be given in the Lords, the former Cabinet Secretary will say that the government is putting political interests before national interests, it appears he thinks there would be no risk to national security if some aspects have a public element, it seems that this is being back by defence chiefs

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

Today we have experienced a breath of fresh air, courtesy of Claire Short. At long last, an honest politician has emerged to expose the lies and deception of B'Liar and his lick-spittle cronies. No doubt she will be submitted to the usual degree of villification by the Labour supporting press, but bravo Claire and well done.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

British Sovereign Territory was invaded in the Falklands, somewhat different circumsatnces I am afraid Cashy.

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A rarity in politics and let rip. Seems that they hoped she would toe the line but underestimated her on this. She has stood by her principals all along and it is a refreshing thing to see and hear.

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maybe different circumstances but I don't see any reason why the Falklands inquiry should have been private and this one not :confused:... this Iraq inqiury seems pretty much public to me seeing that those giving evidence are on the news every night... even when Blair is questioned members of the public will be present.

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Watched her today, what a difference - a politician saying what they believe to be the truth - ignoring the party line.

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She is now an Independant - jacked in her labour membership a while back.

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Labour supporting press ?:D.. do tell us what press you are talking about

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She certainly told it like it is! Nice to see a politician have the courage of her convictions.

What do the Labour party Accyweb members think of her performance?...Graham, Bernard, Claytonender?

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I ain't a member but I say Claire Short has said no more than when she resigned..it's never been a secret that she disagreed with the war and I can't understand why people think it's some sort of relevlation.. Ms Short always had a problem with "New Labour" .. she likes things to be done her way and when it ain't she whines.

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Blowhards like you should be able to reel them off pat, without my having to point you in the right direction.

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I don't know what you are on about.. what section of the press is Labour supporting?..and blowhard is pretty rich coming from a Tory rent boy

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Grow up, son. Strikes me we've been here before, and I am still firmly of the opinion that the current bunch of politicians of whatever ilk are unworthy to wipe the backside of past 'statesmen'. We need another Churchill, but I doubt we'll ever see the likes of him again.

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Yep, she's always had those views, but she's faded into the background for quite awhile now. It's like a breath of fresh air to hear a political figure saying what they really think, amidst the deluge of mundanity and carefully-rehearsed soundbites we've endured at this enquiry. I don't agree with everything she says, but she's head and shoulders above the likes of Alastair Campbell.

The Accyweb Labour crew are very quiet, aren't they? ;)

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No surprises there, though the Tory lot have good reason to stay out of the limelight with the fraud allegations they are currently faced with. Might shut Britcliffe's trap for a while and keep his ugly mug out of the Observer!

What are the odds on the Lib-Dem's forming the next Hyndburn Council as the past Labour/Tory administrations have both let the community down badly in one way or another?

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Churchill was over 50yrs ago.. I'd say it's you that needs to "grow up"..politicians good or bad come and go.. if you bring Churchill into the argument then I rekon he would have sent us into Iraq.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

You've had your fun. Isn't it past your bedtime?

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let's get down to the nitty gritty.. Clair Short is a communist.. now on the one hand the Tories support her when she attacks Labour.. but I doubt she would be welcomed in any new Tory cabinet.

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Indeed Churchill was an inspiring wartime leader - which is exactly my point. He certainly got the job done in Europe, which is more than any of the current bunch can ever hope to achieve in the Middle East.

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if you call my concern at the loss of British lives "fun" and bedtime.. then we do have a problem.

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Is she?...I always had her down as an old-fashioned Guardian reading liberal leftie. Of course, the Tories support her when she attacks Labour...even though they supported the invasion...but that's politics for you. It's just good to hear someone with a bit of conviction, after enduring nausea-inducing drivel from the likes of Blair, Campbell and the rest of 'em.

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The loss of so many decent young men in a fruitless war that we can never win is a great source of regret as you rightly state. But WE invaded their territory on some cocked up political agenda, whereas Herr Hitler was intent on invading us. Therein lies the difference.

At least we can agree on something without getting into the usual degrading exchange of insults.

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yes we did invaded Iraq and lets remember at that time there were polls showing 70% of the British public were in favour.. not one Tory MP voted against the proposal to go war.. now all of a sudden the roaches come out procliaming they were opposed to a war because we lost men and women and it was "illegal" retropective feeling are being turned into a party political broadcast by you and your bods on here.

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I think the reason people have changed there mind is because of the suggestion that we were lied to about the weapons of mass destruction.

Being wrong about them is different to knowing there were none but saying there were as an excuse for war.

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I love the way you've assidously avoided criticizing the glaring deficiencies of your political leaders like Blair and Straw. You say you're not a party member but you really should be - they need spin doctors like you! ;)

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I don't think that anyone who took the time to read the information that the print media put out, or listened to or watched what was available on raio and tv, or went on line to connect with the news, could have had any doubt that the WMD excuse to go to war was anything but an immense crock of horse manure. I still find it difficult to believe that HM govt. was acting out of conviction. It must be obvious that toadying to the Americans for whatever advantage was the policy of Blair's govt. I believe that I have mentioned it before; but, I'll say it again: I'm proud that the govt. of my country had the balls to stand up to Bush, and tell him "no effing way will we join in."

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

Exactly, so there was no excuse for the Tories to support the invasion and no excuse for the Labour government to initiate it, despite the blind refusal of Mancie and the Accyweb Labour mob to condemn them!

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

I thought Tony Blair was right about Iraq at the time.I still think he's right now.

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I don't think the issue is about us being involved, its the reason that was used for going in.

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So, you think it was right to meekly follow Bush into a war against a country which posed no threat to us, on the strength of a questionable report on WMD? And if you think Blair's still right, presumably you reckon we should be considering mounting an invasion against Iran now?

Oh well, top marks for loyalty!

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

We must also remember North Korea - they now have missiles and a nuclear capability. If I remember correctly, nuclear is a WMD (In fact all NBC items re WMD).

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I think the big question is, whoever takes over the mantle of power at the general election (Europe aside), must be: 'Where do we go from here?'

Please enlighten us with the benefit of your wisdom, Mancie?

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

They should whitewash the whole place.

It'd be cheaper.

'Lord Irvine told the Commons Public Administration Committee on Tuesday he had no reason to apologise for spending £59,000 on wallpaper.'
BBC News | Politics | Anger over Lord Irvine's wallpaper defence

:D

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

I just don't see this. Do you mean he was right about WMD? And what is he right about now:confused: I can't believe that you believe that he was right to invade a sovereign nation, destroy their country, kill and maim tens of thousands of innocent civilians, further destabilise a whole region, cause the needless deaths of hundreds of service men and women, all because of the twisted whims of a moron.

The suspected presence of WMDs was a lamest excuse for going to war since Jenkins' ear.:rolleyes:

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

I personally know of ten ardent supporters/members of your party here in Hyndburn, who've told me they'll never vote for Labour again, because of the invasion of Iraq.

Iraq was Blair's Falklands. A war of vanity, that has resulted in many needlessly lost lives, on both sides.

Blair is so far removed from the ideal of socialist pacifism, that he's a joke.

He may see himself as the world's deeply religious trouble-shooter, but that's not what the history books will record him as.

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How do you work that out. The Falklands was a success, Iraq is a mess and possibly always will be.

I still think we should have threatened Argentina with Nukes if they did not withdraw. Why have them if they are no use to us?

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

The Falklands were a political success, though probably not if you were one of the maimed, or a widow or orphan, of those who were killed.

War should be a last resort, when all diplomacy has failed, and as you say, when all other avenues have been exhausted, such as threats, trade sanctions etc.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

The main reason the Falklands was a "success" was that the political will was there, the people were behind it as part of the remaining "British Empire" was under threat & the Falklanders themselves wanted us there to defend them. Added to that our Armed forces & most of their equipment was equal to the job in hand, at the time (early 80's) there was about 330,000 service personnel in all 3 branches of the forces.

Compare that with the performance of the present day Armed forces which consists of about 240,000 (late 2009/10) lack of military hardware Armour/APC's & Airmobile equipment,overstretched in operational commitments. We are bogged down in a war not of our choosing but another Countries, the people aren't behind it "it's a far away Country & nothing to do with us", the politicians pay it lip service & say it's for our benefit ??? & the people certainly don't want us there, is there any wonder there is such a marked contrast, in results & feelings ???

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

99.99% of the British population didn't know of the existence of the Fakland Islands, prior it 1982.

Though a slighter higher figure would have heard of the Commonwealth island nation of Grenada, which was invaded by the good old U.S. of A., in 1983.

America saw the overthrow of Saddam as building another secure base in the oil rich Middle East. Blair the lap dog, flattered by Bush's courtship, meekly followed, knowing that there wasn't the intense and urgent threat caused by weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam was evil, but no more so than your average megalomanical dictator, such as Muggabe. But of course Zimbabwe isn't quite as strategically well placed to major oil fields, as Iraq is.

Do I think there has been any major advancements brought about by the invasion of Iraq, weighed against the loss of blood of Britain's armed services?

No.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

That may well have been the case Rindy, but after the 2nd April 1982, they certainly did then, the fact that Johnny Foreigner should make such an affront to one of her Brittanic Majestys protectorates, certainly brought these tiny Islands to the focus & attention of the Great British public.

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What about all the other Countries that sent troops to Iraq. Where they just American lap dogs as well?

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In the invasion of Iraq, besides the Americans (248,000) and the British troops (45,000), they were 'supported' by 2,000 Australians, and 193 Poles.

So if Blair was Bush's lap-dogs, the leaders of the lesser nations would be the runts of the sad and sorry litter.

The fact is the United Nations hadn't given up trying to secure a diplomatic solution in Iraq, and their weapons inspectors were only withdrawn, when it was clear America was ready to invade.

I'm afraid there is no way on God's Earth that you'll convince me that Blair went into this war for the right reasons, and that he didn't know the facts about the nonexistent weapons on mass destruction.

The whole thing is about the mega-money that comes from oil, and the vanity of Blair, wooed by the half-witted President Bush.

As you once said you were in favour of the E.E.C., from an idealist's point of common fraternity, I'd rather have hoped you might have supported the ideals of the United Nations, given it's historical significance, rather than an ex-alcholoic Texan dim-wit, and his subserviant lackey.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

The latest from the Falklands is that huge oil deposits have been discovered there! The petrol companies are vying for licences to explore at this very moment in time.

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

Since you mentioned oil - there are unexploited oil fields in Tahiti, and one particularly large one under Sun City, and a natural deep water harbour adjacent.
How convenient that the US military were on excercises in the area when disaster struck:rolleyes:

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

In the past religion has been one of the major causes of war. Seems like oil is fast becoming the modern day religion!

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....and weather control is a new means of war

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Sorry Margaret, I didn't realise the thermostat for my central heating was turned up that high!

Or is this yet more of your bull shine without brains conspiracy garbage?

Please don't give us one of your stupid links to a 'believe in your own Armageddon' site, as some sort of proof, that only work's in the small world of sick little minds.
:rolleyes:

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

I think I can agree with all of this ... but are you not being overly kind to Bush by saying he is "half-witted":confused: Even "dim-wit" is a generous assessment.

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Not quite a religion but worshipped on similar lines. I believe & so do many analysts that as the resources dwindle more & more conflicts will arise between countries as a result of diminishing natural assets. At present it's Oil, but the fresh water supplies are also of much concern in many parts of the world.

Already there has been minor scuffles & dispute in the Arabian peninsula over water issues & the situation in Africa is also blatantly obvious. The scuffles here have already stretched into the realms of civil wars & acts of mass murder of opposing tribes & their associates.

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Perhaps you should be asking which countries did not send troops ... even traditional, and still, US allies. Canada comes to mind, eh. George W's coalition of the willing, or whatever the hell he called it, was a coalition of those willing to swallow US bs. Only about 17% of Americans could place Iraq on a map; fortunately, most of them were Marines.:rolleyes:

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Unfortunately their commander in chief couldn't some one had to point it out, or he'd have attacked Iran:D

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Most Americans though that Eye-rack was a well upholstered chest, where you could comfortably rest your gaze.

:rolleyes::D

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Think that went out the window with the statement I did not have sexual relations with that woman:D

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to get back to the original post, it is a "Public Inquiry".. unlike the Falklands ..the first Gulf War.. or the "Arms to Iraq" inquires. ;)

Re: White Wash at Westminster
 

Or the Isle of Man:rolleyes:

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Why should there have been a public inquiry into those three didn't realise anybody lied to sort it out, unlike Blair who lied through his teeth about WMDs

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At the time you will probably recall that most people thought that Iraq had WMB, including the Tory Party.

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Only because your lying scumbag Blair Lied, had massaged the facts aided and abetted by Campbell

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Yes that is true.
The issue is why did we?
we deceived?
If so who by?
Was it on purpose or genuinely poor intelligence?

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To pander to George W Neil:( Yaw Blair:rolleyes:

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(At the time you will probably recall that most people thought that Iraq had WMB, including the Tory Party.)

The man on the front line Hans Blik? didn't! And since when did the tory party have an intelligence service?

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Yep Blair is a Liar - he told us that Saddam could reach this country with weapons of mass destruction in 45 mins! Liar! He still claims he believes it! but that is because he is a consumate liar! All politicians get where they are by deciet and lies. How can we ever have a fair society when it's run by these kind of people who's profession is based on one-up man ship and deciet! Anyone read, Machiavelli the Prince?

Aftert the next election a Tory leader will be as bad if not worse than Brown/Labour! People are aware of this and it leads to voter apathy which perpetuates this evil system! When will there be a revolution?

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The thing is there has never been a successful Labour Government in history, they always leave a tip behind them, then we get the likes of Mancie moaning because the incoming Tories have to take stringent measures to put Labours mistakes right, it was bad enough righting the country after 5 years in the seventies, god knows what it will take after 13 years and a trillion pounds of debt

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The enquiry may have failed, but good old Fern managed to illicit the confession that Blair would have gone to war in Iraq regardless, despite there not being weapons of mass destruction.

An illegal war, that if the truth had been known, wouldn't have been supported by his party, and parliament.

YouTube - Tony Blair Admits He Would Have Invaded Iraq Anyway

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It matters not a jot who gets into power next time around. We have been sold down the river by past Labour and Tory administrations which has transformed the UK into a dumping ground for the world's unwanted riff raff, with thanks to France, Germany and the Netherlands in particular for facilitating the flow. The UK is all but dead in the water and - short of a miracle - I cannot see it recovering within the next couple of generations. If ever?