4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Please spare a few seconds on Saturday to remember the men and women who answered the call to arms in the country’s hour/s of need.

There were many who paid the ultimate price or came back damaged or were virtually abandoned by the government of the day after being given a demob suit and a railway ticket home.

And then to add insult to injury the Quango set up to administer the scheme refused to allow the Veteran’s Award to be awarded posthumously. And to really rub it in, the lapel badge was made in China and it was badly made with two dents in it. The accompanying certificate was anonymous too.

My father served in WW1, was wounded and then spent the bulk of WW2 in a prisoner of war camp in Germany and died in 1948.

In spite of the government’s best efforts to insult the veterans I have amended the certificate to make it more personal and made my own tribute to my dad at http://uk.geocities.com/dqmcxh@btinternet.com/last.html You will need your speakers turned on.

The Last Post is beautifully played by Steven Fletcher (Ex Royal Artillery Band).

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

What a beautiful tribute to your Dad

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

That was lovely, Jambutty, a very fitting tribute.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Sadly JB its saying service temporarily out of order .
Im sure its a very fitting tribut to your father and all the veterans of our past and I would have loved to have seen it.

Lets also not forget that veterans day is now Known as Armed forces day and this enables us not only to Salute our Veterans but also Salute and think of our boys and girls out there fighting today.

Its not a celebration but a time to step back and give thought to all conflicts Past and present.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

ah just tried again and got it..:)

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Fantastic Jambutty .... what a debt we owe!

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

What a fitting tribute to your Father Jim

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

First of all, welcome back Jambutty, it's good to see you posting again.

Secondly, there is a big rededication of the War Memorial in Oswaldtwistle tomorrow morning at 11.30am. All are welcome, please come along and either join the procession from 11am from Brookside St or meet at the memorial.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Yes! Today has been renamed Armed Forces Day and that’s a travesty.

It’s like renaming Mothers Day to Parents Day.

The veterans of past armed conflicts were also the police, fire and ambulance service, coast guard, fire watchers, plane spotters and RNLI plus the temporary conscription of the boat owners for Dunkirk and not forgetting the Home Guard, the real Dad’s Army. They were all civilians.

This government is beyond contempt.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

A few photos from the Oswaldtwistle War Memorial Rededication procession and ceremony

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Some great photos Gayle, thanks for letting us see them on here, looks like a great turnout from the last one.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Fitting tribute Jambutty. Unfortunately the sound doesn't appear for me though.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

We were there, it was nice to see the good turnout aswell as the huge round of applause for the vetrans.

I dont know if its me just not liking peter britcliffe but he has to get everywhere where there is a camera, well done gail he must of missed you!

Can you explain to me why the reef had to be emblazoned with the conservative logo in the middle, i didn't I like it especially when you have peter there in all his glory! i feel there was no need.

**** my wife said he could of polished his shoes they were filthy lol

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Not my normal position, defending Peter Britcliffe (:eek:), but as far as I'm aware, he and other Oswaldtwistle councillors were instrumental in the refurbishing of the War Memorial, and the organisation of the rededication, and I'd have been more shocked if they weren't there. Though I agree about using a wreath to promote any political party is a bit iffy, in my opinion.

I do think it looks great, and we're lucky to have one of the most beautiful war memorials in the country.

As it is for many other people, the place is very special to my family. For my mum, growing up without a dad, who'd been killed in Normandy aged 22, just months before she was born, it is the nearest thing she had/has to a grave to visit.

My grandfather's great grandson was very proud to march with the cubs, in today's rededication procession.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

It was good turnout. And also what was pleasing to see was the respect shown when the service was being held. As someone said you could here a pin drop.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Eeew that roll of honour monument looks fantastic. When I passed on Thursday morning, the workers were there just running their hands down the grey stone. Wondered how they were going to carve all those names on it in time ... but understand now .... :D

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

It's not my normal position either (:D) but in defence of Peter - it wasn't just the Tories that had the political party in the wreath, Labour did as well. As it happens pretty much the first thing that Peter said to me was that he didn't order the wreath and that he didn't know it was going to have Conservative in the middle - it was an unprompted statement from him because I hadn't even looked at them at that stage.

Instead of seeing it as promotion of any political party can't we just see it in the same way as signing a condolence card? You don't send a card without telling people who it's from.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Don't wish to cause any further controversial remarks over such an emotional occasion, but suppose would have been better for a wreath to have been laid just from the HBC. For once united in their respect.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

I appreciate what you're saying Kate but I think it's just a standard thing for both parties to put their own down.

I am a tiny bit puzzled by the wreaths though as it wasn't poppy day was it - I thought that was in November.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Perhaps not, but I also wouldn't send a card emblazoned with my ugly mug on the front either.

The wreathes laid at the Cenotaph don't have who they're from plastered all over them, and like you say yesterday wasn't Rememberance Day anyway.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Gayle didn't miss PB he's on the first photo and seeing he has worked for Ossy tirelessly over the last twenty five years, why shouldn't he be there. The fact is that most of the time PB doesn't ask to have a photo included in the press, as they use pics taken years ago

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

It's not a political thing as you say Gayle. It's standard practice at the remembrance day service for the different political parties to lay a wreath.

The Mayor lays a wreath on behalf of the Borough, as he did yesterday.

As far as I can remember the wreaths have always had the logo's of the various parties on the wreath. Also it's the British Legion I think who get the wreaths for us.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Think your spot on there Bernard, thats how I've always seen it too

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

That's what I was saying. I was pointing out that it's normal to have the parties represented individually - I wasn't complaining or commenting against it, just saying that it was the tradition.

I was just asking the people who HAD complained that they could perhaps try to interpret it differently - and not get worked up about something that is just standard practice.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Perhaps our political parties should follow the Queen's example.

Her wreath is made out of poppies, and is not used to promote anyone other than rememberig the fallen.

A discreet card is fine, saying who it's from, but a wreath carrying an obvious logo, used as some sort of self promotion/advertising, is more than a bit naff.

Just my opinion, but using people's deaths for means other than rememberance, gets on my goat.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Sometimes I think politicians are damned if they do and damned if they don't can't win really can they:rolleyes:

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Political parties are free to lay wreathes, just as other organisations are, but if they use that act as a form of advertising, it's more than a little disatasteful in my opinion.

The same sort of distaste that comes from making a big song and dance about charitable donations.

Naff, and not very charitable, to my way of thinking.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

The laying of wreaths on Remembrance day is one of the few occasions when political parties actually put aside their differences.

It's not about self promotion, or advertising any political party. It's about showing respect and remembering those who have given their lives in the service of their country.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

So, what do the Independents do Bernard ? Obviously we have only 3 categories of political parties on our council.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

I was just making the point Kate, that when it comes to remembrance day politicians of all political parties including independents do tend to put aside their differences.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Discreet card, saying who the wreathe is from, fitting.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...E8EB959615.jpg

The centre of a wreath, emblazoned with a political party logo, as seen on the ones on this site, photographed at the Cenotaph, are using rememberance for their own advertising.

The Cenotaph in London - Rememberance day

I suppose you've got to lack a certain amount of dignity, if you're after securing public votes.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Although I quoted you Bernard, I meant political parties lacked dignity, when seeking to advertise themselves.

Wasn't a dig at any individual politicans, yourself included.

Still I suppose it saves a bit of money from the vast amount of money the main political parties spend with advertising agencies each year.;)

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Still find your point a little contradictory Bernard .. how can they be setting aside their differences, when they are offering wreaths separately ?

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Exactly.

Men, and women, supporters of all political parties, fought and died side by side.

A greater show of remembered unity would be a joint wreath, but that wouldn't satisfy the many egos alive and well in the murky world of politics.

When there's more self advertising evident on a wreath, than there are poppies, that stinks.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Is the same not happening on this thread?

As far as I can see it was designed to be a thread about commemorating our forces. Its turned into another political debate.

As Garinda has said, men and women, supporters of all political parties have fought and died side by side.

Lest we forget

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

There was more Merchant seamen died in the north Atlantic conflict than was in the royal navy so why are they not on the list ?
They where the lifeline of the nation throughout the war and nothing has been said about them:eek:

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

You're right.

I think Jambutty alluded to the many other people who served, sometimes with their lives, in his second post.

As well as merchant seamen the list could also include the women who took over men's jobs at home, to keep the country running, and the troops supplied, some of whom also died, especially in the first war in armaments factories.

I was careful not to single out any political party, to stop this becoming a political thread, as it appears that all of them are more than happy to lay a wreath which has a greater percentage of it made up of a political logo, rather than poppies.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

I was wondering if the selection of the date for your Veterans' Day has anything to do with the Armistice ending the conflict in Korea, which was signed on July 27, 1953? I know there were ceromonies in Ottawa: laying wreaths at the memorial for the 516 Canadians who died in Korea etc. And on Mick's point about the Merchant Navy: there was a lot of debate here about this a few years back. Ended up with a lot of info getting out about what sacrifices the merchant sailors made for the war effort. There were medals struck, some pensions awarded, and many communities, particularly in the Maritime Provinces (PEI, Newfoundland, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia) erected monuments honouring the courage of these men. There is one in Kingston, down by the inner harbour.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Lots of organisations lay wreaths on remembrance day including different political parties.

I've been attending remembrance day parades for years. And I honestly don't believe there's an hidden agenda on anyone's part.

We are there to remember those who have given their lives for this Country. And sometimes we might have to recognise that even politicians can be acting in good faith.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think it's tasteless that a wreath has more of it's surface area taken up by a political logo, than by poppies.

You don't.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

At least the claims against expenses for Rememberance Day wreaths, were one of the very few things that seemed to have been rejected.

At least we're not paying directly for their political self-promotion.

Wreath laid at war memorial claimed on MP’s expenses - Telegraph

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Totally with you on this one Bernard

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

As another card carrying member of a party, that has no qualms about laying a wreath emblazoned with a large political logo, that doesn't suprise me.

To me it's still distasteful, showy, and self promoting.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

I'd sooner that that political parties be accused of not giving a stuff

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Well I have been into the council offices and got to the bottom of wreathgate!

There was a lot of organisation involved with saturday's event - sound systems, road closures, order of service, buffet, names on plaque etc etc. Someone suggested that wreaths should be ordered and that it would be appropriate for the Leader of the Council, the Leader of the Opposition (as it happens Clare Pritchard stood in for Graham) and the Mayor on behalf of the people of Accrington, should lay a wreath.

These were duly ordered via the British Legion. They arrived but weren't checked until the morning of the event. The British Legion organised the wreaths and just did the standard Conservative, Labour and HBC ones that they have done many times in the past. So, when the wreaths were checked on the Saturday morning it was only then that it was discovered that the centres were emblazoned with logos. From what I can understand there was a lot of frustration when this was discovered but both parties agreed that it would be better to carry a wreath with the party name on rather than no wreath at all.

So you could start with recriminations - someone should have been clearer with instructions, someone at the Legion should have checked what was required rather than assuming to do the norm, someone at the Council should have checked the wreaths on arrival. But, I think it's blowing it a bit out of proportion here.

There was no intention to publicise or promote either of the political parties, there was just a genuine gesture that went slightly wrong. We shouldn't let it take away from the day itself, it's meaning and the success of the event.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

There's a vast difference between making a big song and dance about laying a wreath, with a political logo the size of a frisbee attached, and actually 'giving a stuff' in reality'.

Perhaps if our political parties cared more about the troops actually in war zones at this present moment, with missing or shoody kit and infrastructure, I for one would be happier.

Plus lets not forget that both major parties supported us going to war in Iraq, which lead to many British and civilian deaths, which at the most generous was sold as misinformation, and at worse a down right lie.

Also political parties of both sides ignored the plight war widows and orphans, and those disabled in service, for decades, until the Falkland war. They were treated very shoddily, with many living in poverty, by susccessive governments.

So as far as making grand gestures, which includes ataching your political logos the size of a dinner plate to a wreath, you can stick it.

Actions speak more than any showy, self promoting, grand gestures in my book.

Personally I'd be more moved by a single poppy laid in rememberance by the widow/er or orphan of someone killed in serving our country, than any ostentatious wreath laid by any political party.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Thanks for that information Gayle, but this just isn't a one off.

It happens at war memorials across the land, including the Cenotaph.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Get in touch with Gordon I'm sure he'll listen:rolleyes:

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

It happens in all the political parties, you card carrying members are part of.;)


If I see one from the B.N.P. on the war memorial I might well go mental, and throw all the wreathes from political parties, bearing logos more prominent than the poppies, in the Tinker brook.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

I see you decided not to comment in this.

Easier for politicans to pay lip service to rememberance with grand gestures, than do anything practical, such as making sure our lads 'n' lasses have boots that bloody fit.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Sometimes Rindi you can be a complete arse, glad its only occasionally, please don't include everybody that are involved in politics in your generalisations, I've been involved with the British Legion for many years and regularly do work on their behave, so I take exception to your comments very much:(

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Oh do take a chill pill.

I've not criticised any one person, including yourself.

I've just made comment about political parties using wreaths to promote themselves.

No mention has been made of any one party, or any one person.

As stated earlier, I'd be happier if politicans, of all parties, had fought more for war widow, war orphans, and those disabled by war, and also ensuring that those in war zones today have adequate equipment and kit...rather than making big showy gestures of sticking a dinner plate sized political logo on a wreath.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

So I'll take it your against political logos on wreaths then:rolleyes:

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

....and I'd take exception to your ability to read what was actually posted, if it wasn't for the fact that I know your political blinkers make this impossible.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

When they take up more surface area of a wreath than the poppies do, I find it disatsteful, as I've posted.

Still it's no suprise that respect, discreetion, and decorum, aren't the most obvious attributes of politcans.

Plus I suppose it'll save them money from their multi-million pound advertising budgets, if they can get their logos prominently displayed on every war memorial in the country.

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

Take a chill pill Rindi, lighten up:D:rolleyes:

Re: 4th Veteran’s Day – Saturday 27th June
 

I'm my normal happy self thank you.

I've no anger filling my life, causing me to call people arses.

I entered this discussion defending the right of a councillor, your little chum, to be at the rededication service.

Personally I fid prominent political logos, which overshadow the poppies, distasteful.

Everyone is free to pay their respect for those who laid down their lives in service of our country.

I finish with a reminder that the war memorial that caused this debate, the one in Oswaldtwistle, and one of the most beautiful in the country, was paid for by public subscription by the people of the town, and not by any council, nor any government.

The politicans only came along later...to lay their logos.