Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Ess, Eff, eh.;):D

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maybe I have not made things simple for the tories on here..these are the things that the Tory Party opposed...and NOT DONE FOR US.

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fill in the blank space to say what the Tories have done for us...........

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think Norman Tebbit did his bit , tried to promote national fitness by getting everyone on their bikes :D :D

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They've provided us with some light entertainment from Mancie ;)

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They gave us the "special relationship" with the USA. Read into that what you may. :D

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And they gave you a handshake with John Major..child abuse at the early stage!

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Mancie, the ironic thing is that you very rarely hear a peep out of the card-carrying Labour party members on this forum in defence of their government and here you are slugging away. I reckon mad Gord ought to sign you up to his press team right away! :D

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They were even ashamed to say they were Labour at a recent by-election, yet in the mid nineties every leaflet at local elections carried endorsements from the Labour MP and good old Tony Blair

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Even I think this is an unfair attack on Tories. Just because they opposed a bill doesn't mean that they opposed the principle behind the bill, just the way it was presented and the economics of it.

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And what is the alternative Wynonie.. a Tory Government that is hell bent on cuts to for funding in the NHS with the same old tune that cuts mean improvements?

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everything is unfair for you Gayle.. everything is let see and I can see the other side of the story.. there are only two sides when it comes to cuts in benefits and cuts to the NHS..those who want those cuts and those who don't... pick your side or sit on yer fence.

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So you seriously think that if Labour win the next election, they won't be forced into cuts by the frightening fiscal deficit that now hangs over this country? Dream on, Mancie, dream on...;)

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they may well have to cut certain things who knows? the point to me is simple, they would NEVER be there to cut, had Labour Not Introduced em.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Things the Tories have not done for us:-

Lied about W.M.D. just so we can back the Americans in a War against terror that is killing our troops and we can't possibly win it because we are creating more enemies as each day goes on.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

I don't accept that any scale of debt means this Government or any other have to make cuts in the NHS...that and defence is not to be messed about..and I don't believe that cuts make for a better service.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Too right they wouldn't. But in view of the financial crisis, cuts will be coming whoever's in power. Personally, I'd get rid of our so-called "independent" nuclear deterrent, but the Labour party don't believe in things like that anymore. :rolleyes:

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

yeh true but what odds do ya give if any other party had been in power, they would have rejected backing Bush?:confused:

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I'll go along with the war against Iraq being a lie.. but we already had the enemies that declared war on the USA and Britain ..we just did not understand before 9/11... do you think we would all live in a lovely world if nothing had been done?

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I don't know, but other parties weren't in power so we will never know will we? Which leaves the blame squarely at Labours door I'm afraid.
:(

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Yep..so add up the odds n' evens ...an illegall war against Iraq..compered to reasonable health care and freedom..or cuts in everything ..it's a serious decision and I take the care and freedom.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

It's not that clear cut - I wish it was. In politics it's essential to have an opposition party who challenge the government. If the government put forward a bill or a policy or whatever, it is the opposition's job to challenge it and hopefully put forward an alternative solution. In the cases that you've listed, the opposition may have voted against the bill but they haven't voted against the principle of it.

I'm not on the fence here - I'm telling you straight that I think you're wrong on this one.

It's like saying the minimum wage should be £10 an hour - the opposition might do their sums and say that was wrong, it should be £9 per hour, so they vote against the increase. It doesn't mean that they are opposed to the principle of the minimum wage or even the principle of an increase, it just means that their sums tell them it should be a different figure so they have to vote against it. Btw - that's just an example, the figures are not correct.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

So, with your argument are you saying that you believe a Tory government will

encourage child labour
have people pay for education for all over 6yrs of age
decommission the National Health Service
abolish a national pension scheme
sell off all council housing
abolish temporally unemployment benefit
abolish Legal aid
abolish child benefits
abolish a winter pension payment

Even if the Tory opposition voted against the government on all these issues. You can't judge the next government on what governments of the past have done.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

utter garbage, whilst its too iffy fer em to reverse these things, the old mentality is still alive n well.:rolleyes:

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You're possibly right but I'm fed up of politics that keeps knocking the opposition instead of coming out and saying what will actually happen and how it will happen.

It's not good politics to slag your opponent off and blame the people who ran the party twenty years ago without saying how you'd do things differently. But that's all that seems to happen these days.

This is why I'm so dissillusioned with politics in general. Everyone spends so much time knocking the other parties that they rarely actually stand up and say what they would do for us.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

join the club gayle, i can understand that, ive been dissillusioned with the ******* fer oer a decade now, n theres many more people just the same.:)

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Well the Tories haven't broken the Covenant with our armed forces.
Closed down all the council owned Old Peoples Homes in Lancashire.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

but they will get rid of the national minimuim wage.....

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Yeah..so are you in favour of cuts or not?

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

If it gets rid of the drain on resources of middle management then I'm all for some cuts.

If Labour get in again they'll be forced to make the same cuts. The only thing is that they won't get in anyway so they'll say that they wouldn't make any cuts at all and some people will believe them. Huge services like the NHS and Police need to be trimmed, they're getting too unwieldy and there is more time spent on paperwork than dealing with the public.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Sound common sense, but sadly, Mancie's far more concerned with storming the barricades!

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Trimmed? so you are in favour of cuts..say no more.

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He would make a hell of a spin doctor, but hang on, people dont believe single party bullshine........do they? :)

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So you're in favour of our taxes being squandered on layers of useless middle management, red tape and bureaucracy?...say no more.

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yes I am..if it means upholding a good NHS.. that is my be all and end all.

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So you think that the only way to maintain a "good NHS" is to have pointless, excessive bureaucracy? I always thought that a "good NHS" relied on the "coalface workers", the nurses, the doctors, the technicians, the porters...but each to his own. :rolleyes:

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Yes and those people cost money..make cuts pay peanuts get monkey..simple

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Still not grasping it, are you? You don't cut the real workers in the NHS - you cut the pen pushers, the working parties, the committees, the quangos, the overpaid, self-serving bureaucrats who have multiplied in recent years...simple. :)

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The simple fact is that money is being wasted in the NHS paying people to walk round with clip boards trying to dictate how things should be done. Back to basics is what is needed and I'm sure nobody would complain if the money was being spent where it is needed. It isn't and that is why people are objecting.

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oh such heart felt wisdom.. and you really think that would happen..the first bods to get a grip on will be the cleaners.. then the Porters.. then the catering..then it will be to late to take on the masses of managers the Tories installed in 1988....that was the start of any miss-manage of the NHS.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

and how much do you invest in the NHS?...people in need cost money.. you take it or leave it.

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So you think it is ok to waste money on pointless managers?:confused: Our NHS could be run much more efficently without them but you don't seem to think it matters that the publics money is being wasted:(

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Yes I do..but when you come up with an alternative please let me know.

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If you want to talk about what happened 20 years ago, carry on. I'm talking about what SHOULD happen in the here and now. Cuts will be coming whoever wins the next election...it's inevitable. The NHS is overburdened with bureaucratic waste which cut be trimmed without affecting patient care...if you don't believe me, just ask anyone who does a REAL job there. But never mind, Mancie, you just carry on dreaming of storming the barricades with the glorious proleteriat. The likes of Mandelson and Harman must be laughing their socks off at the likes of you.

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I think there is a Devils Advocat lurking in there........Go on Mancie.....Give us the punchline?

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You agree with cuts or you don't agree with cuts..now even pond life could make that decision..just say what you mean.

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I agree with cutting spending on pointless bureaucracy...I don't agree with cutting essential public services. Simple enough for you, comrade?

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Yes..you want cuts..no problem.. lets see how far your lot will go.

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I agree with that.

Back to the thread title:
Stuck passenger tax on air travel.
Robbed private pensions.
Devalued the pound.
Taxed insurance.
I'm sure when you remove your blinkers even you can find many more.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

So anyone who wants to cut wasteful spending on pointless bureaucracy is a Tory? Er...right, OK. :rolleyes:

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The Tory party have not come round & decorated my kitchen either.

Hmm, come to think of it, neither have Labour :D

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Who the heck is you lot?

You have talked nothing of sense from the beginning of this thread, Even Stalwart Labourites have told you, you are talking nonsense, when, Oh when are you going to give up on your ridiculous drivel?

(Please make it soon or I will be tempted to vote Tory).

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

I noticed your location is Boloxnia.. are you the creator of that nation? you even made up yer own language cos you do talk Boloxnian!

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A quick Google would sort you out, compared to your world Boloxnia is at least on this planet.
Where you think you are wouldn't make it into a decent Sci-Fi.

It must be lonely in your world.

:o

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I ain't got Google Less.. I was just telling your mate Entwisi ..you ain't up to speed guv.. it will be dark soon and you can sleep well with next doors cat..I heard she's expecting kittens.

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Could you post me some of that stuff you are on?

It must be better than what I'm using.

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Brilliant! That's got to be a contender for random post of the year...even surpasses your mate, Eric Cantona, Mancie! :D

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Hate to take the wind out of your sails, but social housing in this country was first introduced under a Liberal government, thanks to the Housing and Town Planning Act of 1919, which legislated that councils had to provide affordable, subsidised housing.

Though it was supported by the new Labour party.

When 'new' Labour meant they were recently formed, rather than the later New Labour of the mid 1990's. Which meant it moved so far to the right to achieve a victory, it should have dropped the Labour tag altogether, and simply have been called New.

:D

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong because I might be, wasn't it the Liberal Government who started up the NHS?

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NO- the post war labour government with Atlee as PM, Bevan was health minister.
I remember it well:D
Aneurin Bevan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PS - I recall whilst at junior school the kids discussing which party they wanted to win, and the ones who had said 'Liberal' got jeered at because they only won 2 seats.

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

I sort of agree.

Paul Daniels and Frank Bruno said they'd leave the country if Labour won the election in '97. (Hurrah, cheered lots of people, as they rushed to make sure that particular magic disappearing act worked.)

Anyone expecting socialism with all the trappings, including the reintroduction of super tax at 95% for the most wealthy in society, were sorely disappointed.

Instead of an exodus of wealthy Brits, the country became the destination of choice for any billionaire worth his roubles. Just check how many of the Sunday Times rich list are newly domiciled here since 1997, having arrived from Sweden, India, and of course Russia, amongst others.

New Labour is nothing like old Labour, so let's hope Tory Lite's nothing like old style conservatism. One things for sure, with Brown as P.M., they are odds on favourite to form our next government, like it or not.

Both major parties are so similarly cloned, in order to appeal to middle England, it'll be just like exchanging one daft hat for another, with a slightly different trim.

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You might find this interesting:-

BBC iPlayer - The NHS: A Difficult Beginning

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

There's a programme on the BBC iplayer at the moment about Nye Bevan and the creation of the National Health Service. Well worth watching

In the great reforming Labour Government of 1945 he was firstly Minister of Housing, overseeing a tremendous housebuilding programme just after the war.

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Just got to this bit, and see Margaret has put you right.:eek:

Hang your head in shame, otherwise forget the Woman's Weekly, we'll bend you over the hostess trolley, and spank you with your rolled up copy of the Guardian.:D


The Cabinet Papers | Origins of the NHS

Re: Things the Tories have not done for us
 

Cilla Black said she would leave if we got a Labour Government. I wanted to put it on a leaflet. Would have been a vote winner for Labour.

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Might have been someone else at Mount Pleasant junior school, but I can say for certain it wouldn't have been my dad.

He'd have been a jeerer.:D

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Lol, I missed Cilla saying that'd she be on the ferry out of here with Daniels, and Bruno.

I'm off to smash my Mucky Kid single and scatter in down Liverpool's Scottie Road.