East Lancashire decline
 

Do posters think that Accrington has declined more, less, or about the same as other similar towns in the area? I didn't get to visit most places around the area when I was over recently. So, Hasingden, Preston, Burnley, Bacup, Blackburn, Rawtenstall etc., have they declined badly also? Do any of these stand out as having declined less than the others? The only other town centre, of the ones mentioned above, which I managed to have a reasonably good look at, was Preston. I have to say, it really seemed to be thriving and looked as good, if not better, than when I last saw it six years ago. Would the fact that it has become a city have anything to do with that? If posters consider that Preston has declined less radically, what lessons can we learn from that and what applications can be made to emulate their success. :confused:

Please, let us treat all suggestions with some respect. If people are afraid to voice their opinions in case they are ridiculed, we may miss out on some good ideas.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

From the viewpoint of someone who has been a semi-exile for the last 30 years there has no doubt been a massive relative decline, and from certain perspectives an absolute decline over the period.
To the extent that this has been due to pretty severe stuctural changes within the local economy is understandable, but to the extent that it has also been due to malpractice, waste & obvious lack of foresight and imagination on the part of local government is unforgivable. We have just seen how sixty thousand quid has just been blown on a flag-waving jam butty party followed up by christening a lump of rusty scrap metal. This illustrates the point perfectly.
There is no doubt that most of the rest of Lancashire has fared far better than NE Lancs so then the question is has Hyndburn done better or worse than Blackburn & Burnley? I would argue worse; certainly, there have been serious attempts in the latter towns to preserve their best potential assets (Burnley is just about to develop it's historic Weavers Triangle area) while Hyndburns response has been to degrade any historic or potential asset, while at the same time chucking money at some short-term temporary fix. Hence we lose the magnificent Old Grammar School & get get one hundred & fifty thousand quids worth of fountain in return.That lasts three weeks...so after three years we get the Cog Wheel. We take a nicely laid out town centre throughfare with flower gardens & benches and after several years of sustained effort we get tarmac jungle, encircled by collapsing flagstones,
surrounded by shops alternatively selling everything for a quid or simply unoccupied.

But then that's Accrington town centre. We used to have one of those in Church....but no more, I'm afraid. Ossy's done OK - they've still got their shops...so's Rishton & Harwood...even Clayton. But Church? No. We've declined worse of the lot.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

You would ahve to be very knowledgeable of all surroundign towns and the ins and outs of the council and history of the places to answer that question IMHO I doubt many are...if any.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Preston is far bigger than Accy and as it only just got made into a City it cant have made a visible inpact yet

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Why would you have to be very knowledgeable? There are people who have lived in Accy or Church all their lives and the only thing they require is their eyesight and their memory to tell them that where once there was civic pride, now there is public squalor and waste, organised by a council where once there was an ideal of public service and where now there are petty squables, inflated allowances and fancy but meaningless titles.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

One minute Church is part of Accy (Cricket thread) and the next its a different town ??? :)

My point is... To answer the question of which town has suffered the biggest decline then you would have to be pretty knowledgeable of all the surrunding towns to compare.... Wouldn't you agree?

I dont know enough about other towns to compare and would be suprised if others do... Not shocked.. just suprised:)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I understand KIPAX...I think the nice gentleman may do also......But I take your point that’s why I've kept my gob shut.

Preston has developed and has seen increased prosperity over the last few years, and like you say it has City status now.. It won't suffer.

Church is part of Accrington, despite my comments in another thread, but just to complicate and confuse the issue it’s a town in its own right for some…..

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I would also like to take up the original point... Why does JW or anyone else think Accrington is in the decline...The question itself would seem to suggest that everyone thinks the place has gone to the dogs... I for one see vast improvements over the last 15 years....

Perhaps you have to live here to see them?


I think preston has declined... Students have taken over the place.. infested the town (sorry city) and made it a far worse place to live... preston is the very place I left to live here.. So I would dissagree that preston is thriving and Accy is in decline.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I suppose it all depends on what angle where looking at in decline/prospor... so we mean how it looks... or financial or popularity or just in general... or other?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

You have to realize that it's 50 years since I lived in the area. I had not been back there for six years until recently. I'm sorry to report that, in my opinion, it has declined. I can only say it as I see it. Much of the way in to Accrington down through Church along Blackburn Road looks like what I remember Liverpool's Scotland Road looking like in the seventies. Metal grills covering shop windows. This was at about noon on a Thursday. I can only conclude that the shops are empty/out of business. Generally, I would have thought that a financially prosperous area would be reflected in how the place looked. It does not give the impression of being financially prosperous. There was not the old "hustle and bustle" of a thriving community evident in the short time I was there. It was not a particularly nice day, but it wasn't ****ing down either. Anyway, Lancastrians are not known to hibernate just because of a little inclement weather.

On the other hand, I had the impression of resurgence in Preston. Perhaps Preston was not so reliant upon the cotton industry as were the towns further east. Maybe they have adapted to change better. That is what I am trying to find out. This may bring forward ideas of how to make changes for the better in Accrington and surrounding districts. Even if it doesn't, we won't have lost anything apart from a little effort to give it some thought.

My intention is not to insult the place or cause some kind of bitter argument. If anyone has percieved otherwise, I apologise for not making myself clear.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I believe blackburn will be a lot lot better, when all the regeneration has took place, on lord square, sudell cross. It will boast better shops and suddel square will be pedestrianised.
And in the LET yesterday it said margo grimshaw was to knock down some clubs and build high class apartments with very good shops on the ground floor.

As for accrington, the shops are better since they built those new ones, even though some are empty. But they have left broadway in a terrible mess which is a shame as it did look nice before.
The viaduct area is nice with the new cinema and bowling alley which are good for the town.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I have lived in Hyndburn all my life, the first 8 years in Church, the rest in Accy, and I can say with absolute conviction that there has been a definate decline. I'm not just talking about town centre, but other areas that were once nice residential areas have now become homes to those ruled by yob mentality. I remember when Within Grove estate was nice, I even attended a street party there for the Queen's Silver Jubilee. Now it looks like Beirut on a bad day. I don't think that this is just Accy. I can only speak for the areas I work in and drive round regularly. Parts of Blackburn, Darwen and Clitheroe are as rough as a bear's backside too.
Decline is not wholly the fault of local government, although they could do more to improve environs, keep a basic standard of cleanliness, maintain buildings etc. What we are seeing locally and nationally is a social decline of individuals standards, a loutish culture where people honestly believe that they are entitled to everything for nothing. Where a minority (because they still are a minority) of people let their kids run wild and terrorise decent folk, drop litter, break glass in the street, vandalise cars and buildings. I am not exaggerating as these things used to be a nightly occurence round my way (thank God for ASBO's) :(

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

But is it more in decline than other towns.. thats the question and unless you know the other towns as well..preston has been given as an example...then you cant know which is in more of a decline..

Isnt CCTV a plus for accrington.. doesnt it make the town center safer? was accy one of the first to employ this and it has proved its worth...

also ya dont see drunks and winos in the town anymore..

blackburn used to smell really bad on a hot day of hops.. doesnt smell as bad nowerdays.. still smells but not as bad :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I think that quite a lot of us have been brought-up, or lived in Accy /Church / Ossy since childhood. Some of us have moved away and others have stayed. Those of us who are spread around the world have our memories of the town, and no doubt we remember the good things and forget the worst. So we can be accused of looking at things through rose coloured glasses.
But, we now look at Accy with a more experienced view (having lived in many other places in the world), and can judge Accy, not only against our memories, but against other places in the world. I'm not talking about Preston or Blackburn, but against national and international places.
I use to work in Blackburn and in Preston, and knew both towns (well Preston a city...now) very well. I visit them quite regularly, and several other surrounding towns.

So I too have an overview of Accy..in comparison with neighbouring towns and European towns.

Accrington is definitely on the decline. There are many reasons for this decline;
1.The breakup of the local councils and amalgamation into more cost efficient ones (that's the theory).
2. The loss of manufacturing industries.
3. The decline in social and moral attitudes in general (that can be said throughout Europe).
4. The ascendancy of the bean-counters (control of everything by accountancy - also valid throughout the world).
5. The rise of political correctness in everyday life.
And (for Accy in particular)
6. The extremely low standard of elected council members.
7. The couldn't-care attitudes of a minority (but ever rising minority) of the population.
Finally,
8. Lack of self-discipline in general (also world-wide).

If Accringtons' best attribute is its people, then its people must be a part of that decline.

Don't for one minute get me wrong!........I know of some of the best people in the world and they were born and bred in Accy. But I'm looking at decline in general; materialistic and socialistic.

Whatever you believe; that I'm right or I'm wrong in my opinion, doesn't avoid the fact; that every city, every town, and every village has two sides, and people are the largest part of them.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

If you dont live here then how on earth can you possibly know if its in decline? You can look at the town and comment on what you see.. but you cant possibly know enough to comment on anything else... Thats directed at ALL people who dont live in the town. You certainly can't make statements about the people of accrington as you would ahve to be here now and meeting with them on a regular basis to be able to have such an informed opinion.

To say the people of accringtn are in decline from hundreds of miles away is a little off IMHO

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Well Kipax, I am entitled to my opinion and you to yours.

I was brought up in Accy...you were not.
I went to school in Accy....you did not. I got married in Accy...I don't know what you did.....My son was born in Accy and still lives there....My family still lives in Accy...I have hundreds of friends in Accy....I also visit Accy frequently...and I talk to ordinary Accy folk as well. I also use my eyes, ears, and senses to observe and remember, and compare it with over 60 years of experience.
I'm still an Accy lad!

And I don't know Accy people??

As I said: I have my opinion and you have yours...But please don't knock it, I am not knocking yours. At least I am trying to be objective...and not subjective, about Accrington ....and its people for whom I have great respect.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Lettie, what are ASBO's? Excuse my ignorance.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Anti-Social Behavior Orders. Given through the courts to persistant nuisances.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Bloody hell! How long have they been around?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Come on Kipax it's you who's wearing the rose coloured spectacles now. In my opinion the people who have moved away have made a good decision, the trouble is the people who are moving in don't give a toss about Accrington. The area I live in was excellent when I bought my house 10 years ago but since then property developers have snapped up the vacant properties and moved in DSS cases, this combined with the rising Asian comunity and the people who now have lost interest have now made the Peel Ward of Accrington a joke.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Not sure how long John, but the number of them 'handed out' has risen sharply in the last year or so...either that or its just that more of them are seen in the local papers and such.

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Are they making any kind of difference? Or, is the yob culture so ingrained now that nothing makes a difference.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Well said tealeaf could,t have put it better myself.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

eeerm I wasnt knocking your opinion darby.. geeze man take a chil pill... I was merely questioning how you could make a comment that the people of accy have declined if you dont live here.. i directed it at anyone who doesnt live here... because you used to live here doesnt mean you know the people who are here now.

it was a simple observation.. you dont need to make an argument out of every post I make..

Anyone else who doesnt live here who is prepared to have a sensible debate and not an argument? my observation is directed at you instead... i dont really see how you can comment on the decline of accrington or the people if your not here to see the decline.. how do you know its in decline?

if anyone thinks that is argumentative r knocking your opinion then ...well... sigh

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

BAGPUSS
Are you sugegsting people on the DSS dont care about there home or town?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Spot on Bagpuss. West Accrington, is another case in point. During my childhood the area could never have been described as affluent, but it was always clean and tidy. Blackburn Road bustled with shops selling a bewildering range of goods all the way from Church to the centre of Accrington. It is hard to pinpoint the key event that tipped the area into steady decline, but what ever it was it began in the early 1970's. It may probably have been a combination of events. Certainly it was the opening of ASDA that sounded the death knell for many of the businesses along Blackburn Road, as it did for Accrington Market. The closure of companies like E.J. Riley, and the contraction of Howard and Bullough's together with the general decline of the textiles industry meant that people were forced to look further afield for work. this in turn led to people moving their homes too.

For the last thirty years, instead of being proactive in attracting high skill/high wage jobs to the area, HBC has been successful in attracting mainly those companies who require low skills and pay basic minimum wages. Thus driving the borough further down the road to decline. The last thirty years have been a challenging time for the country as a whole. But some boroughs have risen to that challenge and have met it head on with imagination and foresight. They, unlike Hyndburn, are now reaping the benefits.

It strikes me that the recent 30th birthday party was an unintentionally accurate portrayal of the state of the borough.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Well, it is subjective I know, but if you haven't been there for a while and you drive through the town and it looks run down compared to the last time you drove through, what conclusion are you likely to draw?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Good one :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

JW I am not saying Accy isnt in decline.. I dont know for sure if it is.. you alls eem to pick areas that are but ignore areas that are not..

My point refers to the original question of the thread...which isnt is accy in decline.. its is it in more of a decline than other towns... I cant see how anyone can answer that properly.. I also dont see how someone who doesnt live here can even answer if hyndburn is in a bigger decline than anywhere else... its a BIG question.. are you talking about the look of the place? or the bigger picture?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

They have made a bit of a difference round where I live, as the main teenage perpetrators of the vandalism, fires and terrorising the elderly are now, not only under curfew, but have to attend school as part of the order. When I moved to this house 13 years ago, the area was lovely. As Bagpuss has already commented a lot of the houses have been bought up by the rental market. They rent the houses to yobs, and couldn't care less about the area, as long as they receive the rent money. Our neighbourhood formed a watch scheme, and shopped 3 teenage boys for the trouble. We were all being threatened, not just by them, but their parents, but we named names and stuck together and it has made a difference. Don't know what will happen when these ASBO's expire. This lot may be back with a vengence.. :(

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Thanks Lettie, that is interesting, but I suppose a lot of people would bow to the threats and let it slide. You and your neighbours are to be commended for being prepared to stand up and be counted. I certainly hope this does not come back to bite you in the butt, however, you can always report them again, they may see the light, or they just may move on to annoy someone else who isn't as strong as you and your neighbours have been.

Kipax, I suppose it is a big question and very difficult to answer. What I am trying to achieve in my own simple minded way, is for people to come up with ideas to make the place better. I suppose it doesn't matter if it's in decline more than anywhere else, but decline or not, there is obviously a lot of discontent with the way things are. So why don't we identify the main problems and see if we can't come up with some solutions. As you are obviously a long-term resident you will be aware of most of the shortcomings of the area. Why don't you start us off with a list of stuff you would like to see changed to make the place better? Obviously, these things, for the most part, are going to be community related. I don't think we would be able to help you if you said you wanted someone to spend 30 million quid to upgrade the town centre. Let's try to keep it simple and achievable.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

With reference to yobbishness in general, I think our glorious leader put his thumb on part of the reason the other day when he identified the 'liberal, social consensus of the 1960's' as the root cause of many of the troubles that beset the country.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

JW well you ahve now moved the goalposts considerably... Nothing wrong with that.. adapting :) But I was answering the original question :)

If ts just a case of what can we do to make things betetr then it doesnt matter where you live does it...............consider the goalposts moved then :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

heres my list to make the town better

start of list


end of list

Like i said JW... your presuming everyone has a downer on the town... Personally i love it and being a realist and knowing like any other town its bound to have its problems... i think i would leave it as it is.....

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Kipax are you misunderstanding JohnW's post on purpose?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

eeerm.. i think i understand his post perfectly... what do you think i am missing.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

A-B, What exactly did he mean by "the liberal social concensus on the 1960's"?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

also why would i purposely missundertsnd it.. thats a rather childish thing to suggest :(

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Bol****s.....

Trying to run the country like the 51st state of America hasn’t help matters, but the main reason for our decline is just common poor old mismanagement and lack of leadership with in both local and central Government.

Liberal nanbys from the 60s, yes that’s right. There all now New Labour Politicians…..Just my opinion.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Kipax, I'm sorry you consider I have a downer on the town. I honestly do not. But, there are plenty of threads on this forum making complaints about what goes on in the town. I just want us all to try and address those problems. If you don't think there is anything to address, then your job here is done.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I didnt accuse you of having a downer on the town....sigh :( at least i dont recall doing ? i said you presume everyone else has :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

JohnW. He was announcing a government five year plan to crack down on crime - Monday of this week I think - and cited the liberal, social consensus that came out of the sixties as something that the nation had had enough of. Basically he was referring to the raft of policy decisions across the whole range of government departments which have had far reaching effects. particularly those relating to law and order, where the rights of the offender are, more often than not, given precedence over the rights of the victim. In many ways he wanted to signal the end of the 'We have to try to understand them' culture. I don't think that he has the political courage or support to carry this to any logical sort of conclusion however. So we will have the usual round of half measures that are stalled in the Lords and are so watered down when they reach the magistrates that they are as good as useless.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Is my point so difficult to miss? I am trying to say that the town isnt as bad as is being made out by many people... yes you see all the complaints... but.. hmm how do I put this..

If a goalkeeper spends 10 years at the top of his game and then makes one glaring gaff on telly... everyone will talk about that forever more and nothing about his ten years good service..

Well its a bit like that.. if theres somehting wrong in accy/hynbdburn then everyone will jump around complaining... but no one mentions the good things that in my humble opinion vastly outwieghs the bad thats talked about.. so the wrong picture is being painted to those that dont live here and those that cant see the good.

Yes? no ? :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

>>also why would i purposely missundertsnd it.. thats a rather childish thing to suggest <<


>>I didnt accuse you of having a downer on the town....sigh at least i dont recall doing ? i said you presume everyone else has <<


I have watched you pull this sort of stunt on other threads. It's not big and it's not clever.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Well "K," I have to wonder why you didn't specify any of these good things on the thread that was asking for just that over the past week. Anyway, why not give us a list of the things you consider good about Accrington/Hyndburn and we can then try to expand those qualities to the other posters on the site. Maybe there are some good things exclusive to the part of the town in which you reside. Let's try to spread 'em around.

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eh? whats going on now? I am joining in the debate and you suddenly start accusing me of things... ffs :(

who died and put you in charge ?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

oh for crying out loud :(

well gosh i must have a hidden agenda then eh ?

sod it...............i will leave you to your conspiracy theories.. you and Bob have a nice night eh ........

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Oh my! Who mentioned conspiracy theories or hidden agendas?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

or paranoia :)

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Could we possible do this without conflict........I have had a bad and would like to end the day with nice thoughts in my head.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I agree on that one Doug

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

same here.. but what do I do.. acrylic bob seems to want to start it in here.. i tried not to answer him i really did but couldnt let his sudden accusation pass.

there is a possibility that he is sat at his computer with a smile half as big as mine right now but i doubt it hehe

dont be so serious people... its not real life you know :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

perhaps if acrylic bob tells us all exactly what i have done to upset him and cause him to have a go i can then apologise.. but until he tells me what i have done wrong i cant make ammends.... :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Hey, just a thought....Is KIPAX & Tealeaf one and the same person.

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No but I just nudged him and he nearly dropped his drink :)

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Doug's observation about mismanagement is as valid as any other. There is certainly a wealth of evidence that points to the mismanagement of the economy from the end of the second world war onwards. How much of what happens now can be put down to our mishandling of the end of the Empire? Or may it also be true that the second world war stripped the country to the bone and it is a tribute to British phlegm and determination that we have managed to claw our way back thus far?

The causes of national decline and local decline are many and varied. Theories abound and many academic careers are based on the attempt to understand and interpret them.

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Surely like a recipe each of the many varied reasons rely on each other to make the final outcome.. it would be impossible to get it down to one reason only or even one set of reasons.... Chaos theory.. the ripple effect and all that

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

An astute observation. It does rather depend on ones individual perspective. Is the glass half full, or is it half empty?

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

A gang of young yobs are causing misery to the lives of pensioners living in sheltered accommodation off fife streetaccrington playing football with a full size footballand some times a rugby ball along with alot of shouting and screaming live in the three bungalows nearest must be hell the middle bungalow suffers the worst the yobs are nearly in there bedroom Some action suppose to be taking place lower down the road but thats no help to these at the top A sign keep off the the grass as disappeared and a request to an hyndburn counciller who lives right across from the trouble spot has met on deaf ears

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

As a product of the industrial revolution, I think that one of the important things to realise about Accrington and District is that the main reason for it's existence is work, of a specific type. In Crewe, for example, the main employer has historically been engineering linked to the expansion of the railways. You could think about Sheffield or Oxford in a similar way. In Accrington, because it was so focussed on it's main source of employment, there was little or nothing to fall back on when it failed. The loss of jobs leads to a loss of income, which in turn leads to less money spent in the local economy. Which in turn leads to a contraction of independent retailing, a stagnant property market and an unattractive investment environment. This is what we have seen throughout the last three decades.

Ok, the property market is begining to catch up with the rest of the country. but how much of that growth is locally generated and how much is fuelled by absentee landlords looking to make a quick profit or a better return than investing in the stock market? From that point of view it does not matter to landlords who uses the property, so long as the money comes in, and the DSS's money is just as good as anyone elses.

Do we see any upturn in wages beyond the basic minimum? Not according to a brief perusal of jobs on offer in the pages of The Observer. If Accrington does not attract high skill/ high wage jobs, then it's future lies in becoming a dormitory town for the larger connurbations that surround it. Perhaps in this light Mr Rix's fixation with attracting tourists begins to make some sort of sense

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

i saw 4 of our community police this afternoon going into the new spring hill school with 4 people they went up into what we call the woods & they were there for quite a while, now the woods a behind the bungalows nr to the nursry school, i dont know what was happening, but i believe that there was 2 black mariahs in exchange st, this was round about 2-30pm,will let you know if i find out bob.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Probably didn't use the quote thing correctly...........

But......that was exactly what struck me about the thread that I started! The people who accused me and others as being cynical about Hyndburn didn't have a damn thing to say on said thread. Doesn't silence speak volumes?

I have spent just 28 yrs in this town (from birth until now) and I can see the sorry decline of this town and its surrounding environs. Whether the decline is on par with other places is a moot point, should it mean that we should be happy with it.....NO...we should strive and endeavour that we rise above the rest....not be satisfied that we are not the only ones being dragged into the cesspit!

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

When I was a kid growing up in Accy, Woodnook then we moved to the council houses up springhill, I didnt really care much about Accy never thought if it was good or bad, did'nt have the money to worry about house prices or development all we worried about was if the buses were running on time so me mum could get to work and back.
When I left Accrington and people said where are you from and you said "Accrington" they would say "where?" and then you would explain about how close to Manchester, Liverpool or if they were a little brighter (ie not from the midlands) you could say Blackburn or Burnley(1st div) so they got the idea.
As my family still live in Ossy, Accrington, Hapton and Burnley I used to return on a regular basis but the last time I returned it had been 5years and I was shocked at the changes.
Which is worse... for me Burnley has turned in to a getto, the market is a dump and the town center looks worse then a third world country and yes I have visted a few.
Accrington used to change constantly, when I was thinking about this thread I was mulling over the little things that have changed over the years in Accy, Church traffic lights, not being allowed to drive through the center, bottom of Burnley rd, a one way system that goes no where,(I heard the designer got savaged by his guide dog) The end of workingmens clubs.
I had a feeling years ago that Accrington really pi**ed off Maggie because when you look at most of the changes they started to occur after she took office.
Maybe a little scenario like
Maggie... "Well we have sorted out the miners how can we really P off the North"?
Dennis... "Why dont you tell your hench men to Scr*w with Accrington?"
Maggie.. "Where?"
Dennis.."Exactly"
My apologises to a certain milk advert.
So Accy wasnt as much a shock as I had expected, I always disliked Blackburn so the best way to look at it is through a Heinkel bomb site, besides from the station I can count the number of times Ive been to Preston on one hand.(4thdiv and maybe 2nd once)
By reading some answers to this question you may get the idea that if you havent lived through some of the changes you can't comment, or if you did you are looking through rose tinted glasses. As far as I am can see there has been no decline in the attitude of the people in Accy they would argue(as my mum would say) that black is blue and reds no colour and I mean that in the nicest way.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

This thread seems to be going round in circles and now we, like Accrington, are going nowhere.

A summary would be too difficult to perform, but suffuce it to say, a lot of us have spoken honestly and tried to evaluate the percieved problem of Accrington and make a comparison with the decline of other local towns.
Apart from sniping, caused mainly through misunderstanding of a few posts, I don't think we would ever reach a consensus on anything about the perceived problems. Whether you live in Accy or have lived in Accy.
If you have lived in Accy you probably have a better perspective, and if you live in Accy you are part of the problem. And I don't mean that any of us on here are a problem, but that you start to ingnore some things you see happening after a while. Perhaps its better to say that "a gradual change isn't noticed so much as an instant change".
With respect to JW, for this forum to try to resolve or even identify Accy's perceived problems is, to put it mildly, very adventurous.

I'm sorry if some of you don't like my opinion, but I'm just trying to get things into perspective.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Well, I think that all of us would agree that Accrington has changed. I also think that we would all agree that it faces some pretty challenging problems. This is a positive step forward compared to where we were when I first joined the forum. I have no illusion that a few posts are going to set the world to rights, and I also see no reason to give up just because an instant solution cannot be found. Yes, people are going to disagree, often wildly and sometimes violently, but that is part of the process of attempting to reach a consensus.

I think that we can all be proud of the contributions made to the debate thus far and I hope that this will spur us all on to take the debate even further.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

I'll go along with that AB.

Challenge is the new word for a Problem....But if we do nowt....nowt will get done!!

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

>>But if we do nowt....nowt will get done!!<<

How true mate, how true. And that is precisely why I must log off for now and go to work. But I will be back again around 4pm. Have a good day!

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

[QUOTE=Darby]
With respect to JW, for this forum to try to resolve or even identify Accy's perceived problems is, to put it mildly, very adventurous.

I do agree, it would be positively arrogant to think that we could solve many of the problems in Accrington or any other town for that matter. But if we could just improve one or two things from intolerable to tolerable I feel we would have achieved something. I was hoping to start with something simple which could be achieved by community co-operation. If we improve one thing, then we can move on to another. At least it's a start. Baby steps and all that.............
:engsmil:

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Look at the clock thread an example of people working to save a bit of Accy, it can be done. The internet gives a window to people who more then likely dont even know each other or would never meet so an opportunity to air our views and maybe do something for the town.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

There is more than one thread on this forum about the disgusting amount of dog **** in the streets of Accrington. The Springhill area comes in for particular mention. Why don't we try to improve matters on this complaint. Here is one idea:

If you see some dog has made a mess outside your house clear it up. Why not print out a dozen notices and put them through the letterboxes of your neighbours asking them to do the same and ask them to print some notices out of their own and put them through letterboxes further along the road and over the other side of the street. Point out the advantages of not stepping in the damn stuff and walking it in the house. The obvious fact that the street will look a lot better without it. If you see someone allowing their dog to crap in your vicinity, gang up on the b@st@rds with your neighbours and tell them to either clean it up or start walking their dog somewhere else. If anyone is willing to give this a try, let us know how you are going on after a couple of weeks, if things have improved or not. Anybody else who has any better or other ideas about this particular problem, post it on here and let's see how we get on.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Why bother picking it up & disposing of it? Pick it up in a piece of newspaper and rub it in the dog,If you can catch it; it'll give the owner a nice surprise when it gets home. Better still, if the owner's around, pick it up and rub it in the owner.

we've had this conversation before, somewhere....I'm sure Lettie was involved.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Do they do that in Florida John?.

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People here carry dog-poo bags with them, pick it up and take it home. I can count on my fingers (using each finger only once) the number of dog-turds I've seen in the streets in the seven years that I have lived here. :)

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Just out of interest John, what's the penalty (if any) for not cleaning up after your dog, and is that penalty enforced (and how)???
Nobody seems to be out there enforcing littering and dog fouling penalties here. I'm sure if a few folks were given the job, they'd earn enough in a week in fines to pay the dog/litter wardens for a year.:rolleyes:

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

That seems a much better idea,Its not the dogs fault its the people who own them.
Most responsible owners do carry bags with them and dispose it in the correct way,
its just a few stupid irisponsible people who let there dogs mess anywhere,anytime,so please dont blaim the dogs.

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I don't know what the penalties are. I think the main reason that people pick it up is a sense of responsibility and civic pride. Most neighbourhoods around where I live are really clean and well-cared for.

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

There's definately a lack of responsibility here on the part of dog owners. I have posted (several times) before that I always clean up after my dog, I'm sure anyone living on Thorneyholm Rd can vouch for that. My dog does love grass verges:) The current penalties should be enforced, Oldham have a dog poo patroller and Preston are currently stepping up their campaign against littering whereas HBC are celebrating their 30 years of disorganisation.
I think it's high time that pets were licensed again. It appears that people can keep whatever they want and not have to show any responsibility for it. This would, of course include not just dogs but exotics.. snakes, iguanas, tarantula etc..

Re: East Lancashire decline
 

Like I said on one of the original threads concerning this subject: responsible dog-owners are usually decent people who do clean up after their dogs, the irresponsible dog-owners are usually toilet-brained scum who would kick your head in if you asked them to pick up their dog mess. Its a nice idea JW but in this area the only canine owners who would pay any attention to polite notices to clear up their dogs mess are the ones who already do it.