Brown's apology
 

Well its no secrete that I'm no friend of Gordon Brown, but I think the ongoing saga with regards to this letter he sent to the mother of the soldier killed on active duty is now getting a bit tacky, myself the only thing Brown is guilty of is terrible handwriting and making a genuine mistake, not even Gordon would upset people like that on purpose. No doubt the Sun Newspaper will sell a few more copies, and I can't begin to now the hurt the mother is feeling, but surely its best for everybody if a line is drawn under this regrettable incident, and let the grieving be in private not on the front pages of the tabloid press

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I agree whole heartedly with you there Jaysay, though no doubt Manky will find a way of proving you just wanted to make another dig at Gorden & New Labour.:rolleyes:

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regarding the letter written by gordon brown,have any of you tried to write a letter with one eye closed,it does affect your composition and tidyness of the content,give the bloke credit at least it was hand written and not a cheap typed standard letter,UP the workers

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Can't see where you think he was being criticised alan, a none argument to me

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i was,nt critising the posts,it seems that the national papers have nothing better to do than put this trivia crap in,but it must be very difficult to write a letter when your sight is impaired the way his is.

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I just wonder what piece of bad news was being buried while we all read about this woman's indignance at having a letter from Gordon Brown.......I never heard that any parents got a letter when Teflon Tony was in the hot seat.

I am no admirer of GB but at least he sent a personal letter to the Mother.......if he had sent one that was typed up by a secretary, and full of gushing epithets, the mother would have bee decrying him for not taking the time to hand write a letter......Moral of this news Item......don't buy a lottery ticket Gordon, you haven't a chance!

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I never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but I feel a bit sorry for old Gord for all the reasons that other posters have stated. The fact that his writing's bad and that he makes spelling errors actually makes him seem just a little bit more human.

Obviously, the Sun's recent decision to switch from supporting Labour to Tory has played a large part in this news story but I reckon it might just backfire on them and there might be a sympathy "vote" for him in forthcoming opinion polls...not enough to save him though, Mancie, before you start getting excited. ;)

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It' not a political point scoring exercise but I agree with accyweb being sorry for a bloke that tried to show some personal feelings. He does not deserve the redtop's abuse for this - surely they can find other things to criticise I certainly can.

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IMHO if his vision, and therefore his handwriting, is so poor then a typed letter - dictated and signed by him, with the explanation for the typing in lieu of a handwritten letter as the foreward to the letter, and checked for accuracy by some competent person, would have been much more sensible from the person who is leading our country - or who we assume to be.

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Good on you jaysay for not using this for point scoring.

It's obvious that there is no lack of respect or sincerity on Gordon Brown's part. The mother is just distraught; no mother should have to bury their own son.

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I think that a typed letter(even with the covering letter as to why it is necessary) is much less personal.
I just think that whatever this man does, he will be pilloried for it.

Mrs Janes recorded his telephone conversation to her.......a supposed private conversation. In my opinion that was wrong and totally out of order........she is just looking for publicity.....and for further opportunities to lambast Gordon Brown.
Well, that isn't big and it's not clever.

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Spot on Shaker. And because she is grieving she is looking for someone to blame.
Her son chose to go into the forces, it was what he wanted from being a small boy(or that is what his mother says).....going into the forces at this time carries with it an increasing chance of being maimed, injured or killed......the lad took that chance, it was his to take.
He died doing a job he wanted to do......his mother should be proud to have had a son who was brave enough to take those chances.

Gordon Brown was sincere in his intentions....it doesn't take much imagination to feel the loss of a child of your own, in fact Gordon and Sarah Brown have experienced that loss, albeit in much different circumstances.

There but for the grace of God!

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I am sure that I read/heard today that the Coroner stated that the lad bled to death. Therefore an internal bleed - an available helicopter may have got him to a Med Centre in time, but many serving Officers ahve stated recently that we do not have enough helicopters there?????????????

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This is what I thought when we got the news on CBC ... A hand written letter is much more personal ... even the news anchor seemed a little confused by the mother's response, and put it down to the stress of her profound loss ...

But poor Gordon ... he might not be the most effective leader in the world, but he seems like a well meaning man ... but he lacks charisma, which might in itself not be a bad thing. Charisma often masks a lack of substance.

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The circumstances of the soldiers death are not really in question, and there may be a woeful lack of equipment.....but that should not detract from what was a well intentioned letter of condolence.......which has now become a media circus....none of which will bring the boy back, or placate the mother.

If Mrs Janes wishes to campaign for better equipment for sevice men and women, then she should do that, but not at this time.

It would have been far more dignified to accept the apologies of the PM.....not recorded what was, after all, a private conversation, and then at some later date taken issue with lack of appropriate equipment.

It is a war, and young men die in such circumstances.
He chose the services for his career.

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There are always shortages of equipment ... every conflict generates its own necessities, and armies are always in the process of catching up to the demands of particular situations. In WWl, it was artillery ammunition. There is a poem by Kipling which goes something like:

"If any mourn us in the workshop, say
We died because the shift kept holiday."

I believe the title is: "Batteries out of Ammunition."

I don't believe that your government is being cheap; all armies play "catch up" in all conflicts.

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behind all this lurks the sun newspaper and of course rubert murdoch all his papers both in this country and america are losing money the only things making any profit are his tv stations and david cameron has promised to look at the BBC when he gets in which means it will be sold on and look what happened to the railways

really disapointed to hear this repeated ill informed comments.

Large troop carrying helicopters have a high risk of surface to air missile attack and are not designed for the front line.

Other helicopters and their crews are back here for a rest and for maintenance.

All front line ops are dangerous and having an abundance of flying machines over the battlefield is suicide and the type of assessment that a Sun journalist would come up with.

As operations have progressed so the tactics of the insurgents and foreign fighters has changed meaning we have to change and counter it by bringing new equipment on line. This happens in all wars. Take The variance and changes in IEDs and the armour plating of vehicles for instance.

Finally last month the government and the military were criticised for unneccessary and over the top spending on military equipment.

It Is quite frankly ridiculous to suggest a British Government is shortchanging our troops deliberatly. I remember when mount ? was stormed in the Falklands and our Paras and SAS were I'll equipped and when the ships in Falklands sound did not receive adequate cover leading to the sinking of the Coventry? And Sheffield? IIRC and the unneccessary loss of many British Troops. Around 268 British troops died in the Falklands.

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How many people are able to record their telephone conversations? How many people know in advance who is going to call in order to set up a recording system?

Seems to me that Gordon Brown was set up!

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Spot on Gayle, these tactics are reprehensible, and cynical too.
Who would use the grief of a mother to further their cause?
This mother doesn't realise that she is being used in the most cynical way......her grief is being manipulated by a certain red top paper.

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Absolutely Margaret - I think the mother was set up as well.

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That is the most distasteful aspect of this situation because it makes her look undignified.

You only need to compare her responses to those of the young widow last week to see the difference.

Jamie Janes was not conscripted. He knew the risks when he joined up, he accepted those risks. He died doing what he wanted to do.

In any conflict, the military personnel will always be able to use more resources and may cite lack of resources for perceived lack of on the ground success.....but resources are finite, and it cannot be proved that this young man would have survived his injuries if more resources had been available.

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According to the political editor of the rag known as the Sun trying to do a damage limitation on Radio Five earlier, the mother was sharing the call with her family using the speakerphone button, one of the family used a blackberry to record the call so they could all listen to it later.

Mrs Janes told the editor that the apology she received was not being reported by Mr Brown correctly and so she contacted the Sun with the recording, and thats how they got the transcript.

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the sun is a shameless rag n has not entered my house fer many a year Re-Sheffield, Brown has made n apology personally, Jaysay deserves credit fer NOT point scoring, whereas Barrie is obviously a "Sun" reader who has emigrated.:rolleyes:

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And your mentioning the Falklands is not having a dig at the goverment of the time ie Tories?

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British armed forces have been ill equiped in any conflicts on foriegn soils for 100's of years.. no matter if it's been Labour, Tory or even Liberal.
The present Government has committed Billions into building two new aircraft carriers and a possible replacement for Trident..the Tories have stated they will "review" this as part of spending cuts...in a few years time it will be a Tory Government blamed for not spending enough on Defence.

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it all seems like reasonable .. but manky? less of less would be best.. I would go futher but some old men are just ..old men :D

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Sorry to say that you have got it wrong once again. I am not and have never been a Sun reader - didn't it support Labour until recently?
British Forces have always been short of equipment either in quantity or type - in the '60s the Malaysian Army had SLR rifles and Sterling Sub-machine guns - we had Lee-Enfield rifles and Sten Guns. Despite snakes,scorpions etc we were issued with sandals as there were no Jungle Boots available for us - unless we bought them in the local Bata shop. Same for the Falklands - quick trip to some shop in the Lake District to get some decent kit for my son - better quality than issue kit.

And a comment for g jones :- Sorry, but i find it hard to determine the logic within your post, somewhat fragmented and inaccurate.

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I was able to tape my Telephone calls Gayle, and did so for many years, it does come in handy sometimes:rolleyes:

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There was also a big difference between the two conflicts Bernie, the Falklands were British Sovereign Territories, unlike Afghanistan

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Since The Sun decided to switch allegiance its stuck the boot into Brown at every given opportunity to try to justify its position! In this instance its reaction is totally out of proportion. Yes there are mistakes in Brown's letter, and yes his writing style isnt great, but as we know, there are valid reasons for it. I certainly cant blame Mrs Janes for her reaction either, i'm not sure i wouldn't have reacted with even more venom if i was in the same position, but fortunately most of us are able to stand back from the issue and see both sides. Brown has sincerely apologised and i believe his letter too was a sincere attempt at communicating his sorrow to her. It does have the personal touch of someone who does actualy care.

It was interesting to watch "The One Show" last night with that smug "human rights expert" Adrian Childs dissecting Brown's letter and pointing out all the mistakes to the viewers. Childs then stated that Jamie Janes had died in Iraq, when obviously it was Afghanistan!! He apologised later in the show for "his" mistake! Didn't look so smug afterwards though!!

Best Regards - Taggy

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was just giving my opinion as you did, as i think you got it wrong, as fer that rag supporting labour, yes it did, after switching from conservative. plus i based my comment on yer cheap shot at Browns personal letter,:rolleyes:

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Did tours in Malaysia.
1. 1958 to 1960 Malacca.........Lee Enfield and Sten.
2. 1967 to 1970 Terendak and Seremban.....SLR and Stirling.
No Sandals and no shortage of Jungle Boots...No Bata shops in the Jungle either.

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no.. there is no difference..fighting for this country has never been as simple as home or away and the people that do the fighting know that.
there was one objective at the start of this war and that was to remove the Taliban and the threat they had on the general population of what they call the western world.. that objective has been a achieved at a terrible cost...what more do you want?

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that "newspaper" the sun will never enter my house..the fast change to supporting Labour never fooled me... it is and likely will always be a print of scum ... and I'm with Cashman on this.. the reporting of the Hilsbourgh tragedy was disgusting and I'll say enyone who buys that paper are ..lets say..not right

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But it hasn't been achieved Mancie, if it had our lads would not still be there, its still ongoing

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and if our lads had not gone into this what then.. more training and more bombers?... this war is against a terrible regime that has no fear of murdering women and children..if it goes on then it is a high price to pay but I know this country is fighting to protect my family and your own.. nothing to do with oil...if it's out then get out but no way to blame this government.

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'As (immigration) officials were being ordered to take risks, several potentially dangerous people entered the UK. In late 2001, more than 20 Taliban, who had fled from Afghanistan after their defeat by American and British forces, were allowed to stay in the UK.'

Home Office covered up immigration risk - Times Online

Makes a mockery of the defence on the home front, when offical government policy allows this to happen.

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and so it's a mockery?.. at last someone has got the guts to say what they mean... but I do not think the same.. it would be a mockery to jump ship when so many have died fighting to protect you, me, and our loved ones...it's the same old story ..nobody is born with wisdom..but we fight or get out and leave not just Aftganistan.. but a Continent bent on murder

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Or handwritten by someone else as he dictates and signed by him. I am sure we would all make such an allowance for a disabled person.

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Neil, that would have been the best way to do it, but I think that GB has issues around his eyesight....maybe denial being the strongest one.
I don't think he realises that his sight problems are a disability that would have him on early retirement if he were out in industry or commerce.
I also think that there has been some deterioration in his eyesight recently, it was reported that he had seen an eye specialist for retinal problems(a tear in the retina of his good eye).

Gordon Brown had good intentions when he wrote to this mother, he felt her loss, because he has experienced the loss of a child.
Unfortunately, this mother is still grieving and looking for someone to blame......and the newspaper has used her anger in grief, to score political points, they have used and manipulated a soldiers grieving mother for their own ends. I don't think you can get much lower than that. It is on a par with stealing the pennies off a dead man,s eyes.

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After all their gobbing off, i notice that The Sun actually spelt Mrs Janes name wrong on their website!!!....PRATS!


Best Regards - Taggy

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has mr murdoch started charging to visit their website yet? He said he was going to start charging for visitors to visit the sun and the times websites ...

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Certainly not summat i'd pay for!!!

Best Regards - Taggy

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not wanting to sound crass , but since when has it been necessary for the PM to write a personal condolence letter to each family of a dead serviceman (apart from a sense of guilt) . Did Thatcher do it during the Falklands/Malvinas war ? or any of the other PMs during, Northern Ireland, Kenya, Malaya, Aden , Suez, Bosnia or the guys blown up in the King David hotel . :confused: :confused:

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to be honest i was thinking the same thing , its a good job gordon brown wasnt pm during ww2 teh battle of the somme alone woulda kept him busy till the day he died

gordon brown took time out to write a letter and despite me not particularly liking what his party has allowed to happen to our country i think it was pretty decent of him to send a letter regardless of how poor it was

gordon brown gets a lot of personal hate targeted at him all stirred up by newpapers with adjendas when infact the crap that led to the mess were in was started by tony blair who basically did what he liked and got rid of anyone that disagreed with him to ensure he got what he wanted so by the time gordon took over he was basicaly taking charge of a sinking ship


thats the way i see it anyway :)

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its a good job you where not pm too the somme was world war 1 :D

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lol never did pay much attention to history after the fire of london and teh battle of hastings

world wars were just so damn boring , even the movies suck

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As an afterthought - maybe the letter was deliberately misspelt, in order to get publicity for the fact that he sends them.
The effect has been expressions of sympathy for his partial blindness and some people now think he actually cares about casualties.:rolleyes: