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-   -   latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/latest-poll-shows-tories-only-6-ahead-50537.html)

Mancie 23-11-2009 01:27

latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Mori poll in the Observer has the Tories on 37% only six points ahead of Labour.
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.a...ntid=151003566

Therefore let us brace ourselves... and let battle commence! :mosher:

archiveuk 23-11-2009 13:18

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Yes it's a bit worrying to think that there's a chance that Brown and his shower might get back in !!!!

accyman 25-11-2009 09:02

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by archiveuk (Post 764570)
Yes it's a bit worrying to think that there's a chance that Brown and his shower might get back in !!!!

not as worrying that camerons lot will probably win the next election which will lead to even more suffering for most as they systamaticly shut down the NHS and cut benefits from the poor who can barely manage already

i guarentee you not one of their so called tough decisons they claim they will need to make to get britain back on its feet will effect the well off but will soley target the already poorer folk in society, its what they do infact anyone whoi is on any kind of benefit liek working tax credits, incapacity,disablity, income support or relys on medical treatment from teh NHS would be insane to vote tory because it would be teh equivalent of slitting their own throats

andrewb 25-11-2009 09:15

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 764933)
not as worrying that camerons lot will probably win the next election which will lead to even more suffering for most as they systamaticly shut down the NHS and cut benefits from the poor who can barely manage already

i guarentee you not one of their so called tough decisons they claim they will need to make to get britain back on its feet will effect the well off but will soley target the already poorer folk in society, its what they do infact anyone whoi is on any kind of benefit liek working tax credits, incapacity,disablity, income support or relys on medical treatment from teh NHS would be insane to vote tory because it would be teh equivalent of slitting their own throats

Accyman, the Conservative Party have promised to ring-fence NHS spending, a promise Labour have yet to match. Of course other departments are going to be cut, but we wouldn't have had to make them if Labour hadn't spent the 10 years before the recession spending wastefully and borrowing money. The NHS is close to the Cameron's heart, they have relied on the service, the doctors, the nurses. To suggest that they don't care about it is just plain wrong.

I'm not sure if you saw any clips of the conference. Cameron talked a lot about helping the poorest in society that Labour had forgot. Reducing tax on the poorest. He explained a situation where a single mother who worked, because of the tax system she was getting just 4pence for every extra pound earned. The passion around the conference hall for helping the poorest in society was something that I found quite remarkable.

YouTube - Cameron gets angry in his final conference speech

accyman 25-11-2009 10:03

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
i wouldnt trust one word out of a tory polotitions gob to be honest ,just like that crook tony blair he will say whatever it takes to get the votes but once elected prommises will soon go out the window.

even if by some miracle cameron wanted to keep his prommises i highly doubt he will have teh full support of his fellow mps and unless he does what tony blair did and sacks anyone who dosnt agree with him sticking to what he wants will be very difficult to do.

im no fan of labour at the moment either but torys have proven themselves to care about no one except themselves and just like before it will be proven again when they get into power

cameron has for teh past few years been pushed forward by the tories as the new young improved super tory with a heart , i just wonder how much control the old school tory thinkers have over their poster boy and how tightly they will reign him in once hes elected

guess we will have to wait and see but im keeping my expectations very low so as not to be dissapointed when it turns out to be teh same old crap

Neil 25-11-2009 10:07

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by archiveuk (Post 764570)
Yes it's a bit worrying to think that there's a chance that Brown and his shower might get back in !!!!

So the Brown years may last longer :rolleyes::D

accyman 25-11-2009 10:20

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 764951)
So the Brown years may last longer :rolleyes::D

nah if teh sod wins he will have a heart attack at teh shock of it and no one will be able to tell .

vote labour = kill brown

now if labour use that slogan they may stand a chance:D

Eric 26-11-2009 08:20

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
The best election result would be a Conservative minority government, or a Labour minority. The governing party would be able to put forward its ideas, its vision of what the UK should be in this screwed up world ... but there would be an opposition which could, if need be, bring them down with a vote of "no confidence". I sense that there is a fear of what you call a "hung parliament"; but, Canadians have had one for several years. Most voters seem content with it. I don't see that democracy demands a majority government. I think it works best with a potent opposition, strong enough to insinuate its ideas into government policies. Hey, but that's just my colonial opinion.;):D

Bernard Dawson 26-11-2009 09:30

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 765167)
The best election result would be a Conservative minority government, or a Labour minority. The governing party would be able to put forward its ideas, its vision of what the UK should be in this screwed up world ... but there would be an opposition which could, if need be, bring them down with a vote of "no confidence". I sense that there is a fear of what you call a "hung parliament"; but, Canadians have had one for several years. Most voters seem content with it. I don't see that democracy demands a majority government. I think it works best with a potent opposition, strong enough to insinuate its ideas into government policies. Hey, but that's just my colonial opinion.;):D

You would seem to like the idea of an Hung Parliament Eric. If the latest opinion polls are right, it would seem that's what we could well be heading far.

garinda 26-11-2009 10:27

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Percentages might have altered since the poll was taken.

Blair 'knew Saddam did not have WMD before war started' - Times Online

accyman 26-11-2009 11:50

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 765184)
Percentages might have altered since the poll was taken.

Blair 'knew Saddam did not have WMD before war started' - Times Online

we all knew that but i bet he dosnt get arrested for been a war criminal though,if teh govenment want to restore the publics faith in polotitions they shouldstart by putting blair in prison for war crimes and lying to parliament to start a war etc

cashman 26-11-2009 13:16

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson (Post 765177)
You would seem to like the idea of an Hung Parliament Eric. If the latest opinion polls are right, it would seem that's what we could well be heading far.

i quite like the idea of a "Hung Parliment", hang the cabinet n shadow cabinet n start afresh.:D

Less 26-11-2009 13:40

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
Do you know, I keep seeing this title whenever I log on and for some reason get the image of someone dedicated to a party beyond normal reason trying to find the glass half full rather than the warning it should be,

'Wake up labour, except for the stalwart labour voters, you just ain't working, be you traditional or spinning in your grave New Labour'.

O.K. the Tories are just in front in the poll's that shouldn't be cause for celebration, that should hint that you have lost the initiative, please don't put my children through a Tory Britain again, get your act together and actually do something useful.

(You've probably guessed, I'm like what cannot be flushed away, I'm a 'floating', voter), so get yourselves together and use this time between now and the next election to show you deserve my,
X

Eric 26-11-2009 16:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson (Post 765177)
You would seem to like the idea of an Hung Parliament Eric. If the latest opinion polls are right, it would seem that's what we could well be heading far.

It's not so much the idea of a minority govt. that I like .... but I do like the idea of a strong opposition. With a strong opposition, govt. has to work harder to sell its policies. Also the opposition has to do something more than sit around complaining, waiting for govt. to screw up and let them back in again. With a minority govt. both sides have to work harder for their pay.

Stumped 26-11-2009 18:35

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 764933)
not as worrying that camerons lot will probably win the next election which will lead to even more suffering for most as they systamaticly shut down the NHS and cut benefits from the poor who can barely manage already

i guarentee you not one of their so called tough decisons they claim they will need to make to get britain back on its feet will effect the well off but will soley target the already poorer folk in society, its what they do infact anyone whoi is on any kind of benefit liek working tax credits, incapacity,disablity, income support or relys on medical treatment from teh NHS would be insane to vote tory because it would be teh equivalent of slitting their own throats

The only ones that fear a Tory win at the next election are the immigrants, the scroungers and those who are unable to draw themselves away from TV soaps, being too idle to get off their fat arses and get a job.

accyman 26-11-2009 20:56

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 765283)
The only ones that fear a Tory win at the next election are the immigrants, the scroungers and those who are unable to draw themselves away from TV soaps, being too idle to get off their fat arses and get a job.

yeah because people who pay national insurance expect to get treatment when ill , what a bloody nerve some folk have eh, mind you it was nice to show everyone what sort of mind set a person has to have to vote tory

self self self

oh and most people who find themsleves on the dole get their money because they have worked and paid into the system which entitles them to the money/help they get while looking for work and are not scroungers

cashman 26-11-2009 21:56

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 765283)
The only ones that fear a Tory win at the next election are the immigrants, the scroungers and those who are unable to draw themselves away from TV soaps, being too idle to get off their fat arses and get a job.

rubbish, certain members of our society that made a fortune out of overtime during the miners dispute, don't fear em, thats fer sure.:rolleyes:

Eric 26-11-2009 21:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 765283)
The only ones that fear a Tory win at the next election are the immigrants, the scroungers and those who are unable to draw themselves away from TV soaps, being too idle to get off their fat arses and get a job.

Quite a few stereotypes being tossed around in this post ... and if they do get off their asses and try to get a job, will they succeed? I've read many posts on this forum which suggest that there is a shortage of jobs. With de-industrialization, out-sourcing, multi-nationals looking to set up in areas of the world where wages are low, and benefits are nil etc., this is not surprising. Also not surprising is the tory tendency to blame the poor for their poverty, and to let the fat cats off the hook. (Sorry for mixing the metaphors.) Once heard that someone "defended" Maggie T. by saying that she was not rascist; she just hated poor people whatever their color.

Mancie 27-11-2009 00:32

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 765210)
Do you know, I keep seeing this title whenever I log on and for some reason get the image of someone dedicated to a party beyond normal reason trying to find the glass half full rather than the warning it should be,

'Wake up labour, except for the stalwart labour voters, you just ain't working, be you traditional or spinning in your grave New Labour'.

O.K. the Tories are just in front in the poll's that shouldn't be cause for celebration, that should hint that you have lost the initiative, please don't put my children through a Tory Britain again, get your act together and actually do something useful.

(You've probably guessed, I'm like what cannot be flushed away, I'm a 'floating', voter), so get yourselves together and use this time between now and the next election to show you deserve my,

X

Makes sense Less, but the post is not meant as a celebration, it's more of a spoiler for the arrogant Tories that procliamed months ago that the next general election is all done and dusted.
The Tories base thier assumption on the fact that this country has had enough of Labour...and that is all they have to offer..they rely on the electorate being so fed up they will elect a Tory Government, it's the way it has always been and looks like it will be next year.

Mancie 27-11-2009 00:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 765283)
The only ones that fear a Tory win at the next election are the immigrants, the scroungers and those who are unable to draw themselves away from TV soaps, being too idle to get off their fat arses and get a job.

when you say "scroungers" does that include the Tory landed gentry who will get massive benefits just for set aside acres of land ready for the return of fox hunting?... does it include the 20% of working people on the minimum wage that the Tories will revoke?
There's no two ways about it .. the less well off will pay the price for any Tory "recovery programme".. the Tories have never had an agenda were the rich pay more than the poor in society..it is simply something they do not believe and never have.

Eric 27-11-2009 01:15

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 765363)
when you say "scroungers" does that include the Tory landed gentry who will get massive benefits just for set aside acres of land ready for the return of fox hunting?... does it include the 20% of working people on the minimum wage that the Tories will revoke?
There's no two ways about it .. the less well off will pay the price for any Tory "recovery programme".. the Tories have never had an agenda were the rich pay more than the poor in society..it is simply something they do not believe and never have.

.... and never will.

accyman 27-11-2009 08:14

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
well as somone who left school under a tory govenment and was shunted onto the YTS scheme to work a full week for £28 because employers only offered YTS places because it was cheaper and then had to pay extortionate POLL TAX bills despite only been on £28 a week and also because of poor laws protecting employees and no minum wage was forced to work overtime for £1 per hour or loose my job nothing anyone ever says will convince me the torys give a damn about workers or the poor they simply screw every drop they can and throw those in jail that dare to choose buying food over paying their trumpped up taxes such as the poll tax

the last tory govenment we had sent hundreds of elderly folk some as old as their late 80's to prison for not been able to afford their polltax and it wasnt until teh polltax riots that things got changed and even then teh new council tax system was still a hell of a lot more than the rates system.

people who fear a tory govenment fear a tory govenment because they have seen what happened the last time they got into power, hospitals shut down or so under funded tehy couldnt operate and had patients lined up on trollys in teh hallways because there was no beds for them, extortionate taxes on the poor, digracefull wages allowed to be paid by empoyers

say what you want about labour but under them in my area alone i have seen new improved hospitals been built , medical centers built and most importantly of all the minimum wage was brought in which would never have happened under a tory govenment.I work for minimum wage and it isnt great but its hell of a lot better than what i would be getting paid if the torys had stayed in power thats for sure

Neil 27-11-2009 08:24

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 765395)
................even then the new council tax system was still a hell of a lot more than the rates system.

Which Labour must agree with as they have not changed it in how many years?

I am not convinced we have a party in this Country fit to run the place.

The current lot appear to want to split Britain back up into 4 separate Countries with different taxation and benefits etc for each Country

Show me a Party that will pull us out of the EU, sort out immigration so we have jobs for the unemployed and shut the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly and whatever is going on in Northern Ireland and I might vote for them.

On that topic why is there no English Government?? :confused:

accyman 27-11-2009 08:57

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
i agree labour could have altered teh council tax system but lets not forget its not really labour its new labour which was created to entice tory voters away by been somewhere inbetween old labour and the torys.Soon after tony blair got in he soon started getting rid of the traditional labour mps but even so this new labour still has done a lot more for the working class that any tory govenment will ever do.Labuor could have changed a lot of things but like i have said before its not a matter of voting for who you can trust but a matter of voting for who you think will screw you over teh least because they are all crooks no matter what party they are under

until the torys get rid of their bad image which they have tried to do by pushing cameron forward as a new type of tory many people wont trust them and its only this latest cock up with the recession that has even given the torys a chance of getting back in power but sadly its enough so its probably just a matter of lets wait and see what happens under a tory govenment but i dont expect it to be good

cashman 27-11-2009 08:59

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 765399)
i agree labour could have altered teh council tax system but lets not forget its not really labour its new labour which was created to entice tory voters away by been somewhere inbetween old labour and the torys.Soon after tony blair got in he soon started getting rid of the traditional labour mps but even so this new labour still has done a lot more for the working class that any tory govenment will ever do.

that is a classsic example of hitting the nail on the head. IMHO.

Less 27-11-2009 10:37

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 765362)
Makes sense Less, but the post is not meant as a celebration, it's more of a spoiler for the arrogant Tories that procliamed months ago that the next general election is all done and dusted.
The Tories base thier assumption on the fact that this country has had enough of Labour...and that is all they have to offer..they rely on the electorate being so fed up they will elect a Tory Government, it's the way it has always been and looks like it will be next year.

Wow! Mancie, that is almost like praise coming from you, however when we have stereo-typical Tories like this posting:-


Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumped (Post 765283)
The only ones that fear a Tory win at the next election are the immigrants, the scroungers and those who are unable to draw themselves away from TV soaps, being too idle to get off their fat arses and get a job.

I don't think labour will have to work very hard to get my vote, just to keep people like him away from power of any kind needs us all to, as he says,

Quote:

get off their fat arses
and just make sure we put an X anywhere but next to his party, (I think with an attitude like his working for the Tories I would even vote BNP rather than have them come to power, (only kidding folks the BNP would still be a very strange choice of party for me to waste my vote on)).
http://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s11127.gif
Wake me up when it's time to vote
I'll try to take my arse off
the settee to get to the polling station.


Gayle 27-11-2009 11:05

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
I think the biggest thing at the next election will be getting people actually out to the polling stations. Any party that can actually mobilise their supporters might stand a chance. Lib Dems might pick up a few extra seats because of it and of course, it opens the way for parties like BNP and UKIP to pick up some seats. Fighting apathy will be the hardest battle.

andrewb 27-11-2009 11:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 765365)
.... and never will.

At least you're honest enough to admit that you don't really care what policies they hold, you just don't believe they work for the poor.

I profoundly disagree with you, but you're being honest and we can just agree to disagree.

Wynonie Harris 27-11-2009 12:03

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 765412)
it opens the way for parties like BNP and UKIP to pick up some seats. Fighting apathy will be the hardest battle.

Would not like to see the BNP pick up any seats under any circumstances. However, I would definitely like to see UKIP gain some seats, even though I don't agree with all their policies. It would hopefully give a massive kick up the backside to the major parties about people's feelings on the EU.

Wynonie Harris 27-11-2009 13:02

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 765427)
It would hopefully give a massive kick up the backside to the major parties about people's feelings on the EU.

...you know, that subject that Accyweb politicos don't want to talk about. ;)

accyman 27-11-2009 13:16

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
has there ever been given a reason why we wernt asked to vote on that matter ?

Wynonie Harris 27-11-2009 13:26

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
...a variety of excuses, we were given a vote in 1975, we don't do things by referendum in this country etc. The real reason is...they know what the answer would be! ;)

MargaretR 27-11-2009 13:31

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 765438)
has there ever been given a reason why we wernt asked to vote on that matter ?

Now if you were a conspiracy buff:rolleyes: you would say -
Democracy is an illusion because all political parties work to the same agenda(decided by the Bilderburg Group) aiming at World Government

accyman 27-11-2009 15:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
ill just put it down to our country been run by egotisticle pricks high on power

MargaretR 27-11-2009 16:55

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 765482)
ill just put it down to our country been run by egotisticle pricks high on power

You have been googling 'Bildeburg' haven't you :)

Stumped 27-11-2009 17:20

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 765363)
when you say "scroungers" does that include the Tory landed gentry who will get massive benefits just for set aside acres of land ready for the return of fox hunting?... does it include the 20% of working people on the minimum wage that the Tories will revoke?
There's no two ways about it .. the less well off will pay the price for any Tory "recovery programme".. the Tories have never had an agenda were the rich pay more than the poor in society..it is simply something they do not believe and never have.

A scrounger in my book is a collective name for those who are able and fit to work, but do all in their power to avoid having to do so - and there are plenty of them about. The ones I feel sorry for are the youngsters leaving school who have little or no chance of finding 'career' employment outside the service industry which is what the UK is all about these days. I truly have no allegiance or affiliation to any political party, and see no likelihood in any of the present opponent groups being able to improve our lot whilst we remain under the mantle of Europe.

You could always stand as in independent, Mancie. I'm sure that our host of like minded subscribers will rally to your cause with contributions towards your deposit!

Eric 27-11-2009 17:36

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765425)
At least you're honest enough to admit that you don't really care what policies they hold, you just don't believe they work for the poor.

I profoundly disagree with you, but you're being honest and we can just agree to disagree.

Policies are largely irrelevant ... they are like war aims, the aim to rid Iraq of WMDs for example, which tend to disappear once "victory" has been achieved. They are then replaced with other imperatives. What are important are not particular policies, but underlying philosophies.

accyman 27-11-2009 17:47

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 765500)
Policies are largely irrelevant ... they are like war aims, the aim to rid Iraq of WMDs for example, which tend to disappear once "victory" has been achieved. They are then replaced with other imperatives. What are important are not particular policies, but underlying philosophies.

is that a more detailed explination of say whatever it gets to gain power and deliver nothing once power is gained ?

tony blair broke every single prommise he made to gain power within a few months of becoming PM, he caused teh mess we are in now with teh economey and the mess in teh middle east and in my eyes gordon brown will always be the guy that got landed with the mes tony blair left behind and even though gordon brown was part of what tony blair did be rest assured if he didnt do things the way tony blair wanted he would have been gone and somone else would have taken his job who would have done as tony blair demanded

im not saying gordon brown is a good prime minister but he sure as hell isnt responsible for most of teh mess the country is tony blair is largley resposible but he buggered off before he got any backlash from the public and was seen for what he is which is a blithering idiot and a war criminal

andrewb 27-11-2009 17:53

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 765500)
Policies are largely irrelevant ... they are like war aims, the aim to rid Iraq of WMDs for example, which tend to disappear once "victory" has been achieved. They are then replaced with other imperatives. What are important are not particular policies, but underlying philosophies.

I think policies are very, very important. It has never been Labours 'underlying philosophy' to make the poor poorer, to make it that some of the lowest paid workers are taxed 96 pence in the pound for every extra hour worked over their contracted hours - heck I doubt it was Labours underlying philosophy to allow our economy to be the worst prepared for recession than any other industrialised country. Their policies however have allowed this to happen.

I don't for a second believe that the 'wicked tories' want the poorest unemployed, as if it gives them some pleasure, as Mancie would have people believe. It's very easy for Mancie to just come along and write a loud of nonsense. The problem he has is that it is just that - a load of nonsense. Just take for example his view that 'the Conservatives would get rid of the minimum wage', it's rubbish, but it's politically useful for him to get angry about. As the saying goes, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Stumped 27-11-2009 18:21

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 765504)
is that a more detailed explination of say whatever it gets to gain power and deliver nothing once power is gained ?

tony blair broke every single prommise he made to gain power within a few months of becoming PM, he caused teh mess we are in now with teh economey and the mess in teh middle east and in my eyes gordon brown will always be the guy that got landed with the mes tony blair left behind and even though gordon brown was part of what tony blair did be rest assured if he didnt do things the way tony blair wanted he would have been gone and somone else would have taken his job who would have done as tony blair demanded

im not saying gordon brown is a good prime minister but he sure as hell isnt responsible for most of teh mess the country is tony blair is largley resposible but he buggered off before he got any backlash from the public and was seen for what he is which is a blithering idiot and a war criminal

Blair's Legacy, apart from saddling Bumbling Brown with the responsibilty of overseeing the final ruination of the country. And then it rained . . . and rained . . . and rained some more!

Crude Britannia
(The true face of Blair’s Britain)
© Stumped 2001

LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY
Where hope has largely been eradicated,
And glory is something that once was.

MOTHER OF THE FREE . . . and easy.
Where the working man exists solely to ensure
that the criminal and the work-shy attain a better
standard of living than himself.

HOW SHALL WE EXTOL THEM
Whereas fat-cats, pop icons and footballers are lauded,
the real heroes: men and women of the armed forces,
the health service, the emergency services and the
teaching profession, are vilified and castigated by those
that they would deem to serve.

WHO WERE BORN OF THEE
Where the sanctity and values of marriage and
family life seem to have been subjugated by the
immoral preachings of the combined media, with
little or no interference from the sitting government.

The End

claytonender 27-11-2009 22:46

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765506)
I don't for a second believe that the 'wicked tories' want the poorest unemployed, as if it gives them some pleasure, as Mancie would have people believe. It's very easy for Mancie to just come along and write a loud of nonsense. The problem he has is that it is just that - a load of nonsense. Just take for example his view that 'the Conservatives would get rid of the minimum wage', it's rubbish, but it's politically useful for him to get angry about. As the saying goes, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

On the subject of the minimum wage - there was a private members bill (put forward by some Conservative MP's which included Nigel Evans the MP for Ribble Valley) to allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage - which was tantamount to abolishing it. Why did David Cameron allow any of his MP's to bring this bill forward if he is in favour of the Minimum Wage?

It was the publicity that the Unions gave to the bill that succeeded in getting it stopped - I don't remember David Cameron speaking against the bill.

Andrew, over the last 150 years, it has always been the Conservatives who have opposed legislation to improve the rights of workers. Before the minmum wage there were jobs advertised in Accrington Observer that were paying £1 an hour (for a 40 hour week). There was a public meeting in Accrington Town Hall, attended by all the parliamentary candidates, when asked about whether it was acceptable that some employers were paying £1 an hour - the only candidate who thought it was acceptable, was the Conservative candidate.

I do realise that in 1997 you were probably still at primary school and did not understand about the 'slave labour' wages people were expected to work for. However many of us, on this forum do remember the times before the minimum wage and will fight to make sure that it is not destroyed by David Cameron and his public school 'hooray henry' cronies.

cashman 27-11-2009 22:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 765589)
On the subject of the minimum wage - there was a private members bill (put forward by some Conservative MP's which included Nigel Evans the MP for Ribble Valley) to allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage - which was tantamount to abolishing it. Why did David Cameron allow any of his MP's to bring this bill forward if he is in favour of the Minimum Wage?

It was the publicity that the Unions gave to the bill that succeeded in getting it stopped - I don't remember David Cameron speaking against the bill.

Andrew, over the last 150 years, it has always been the Conservatives who have opposed legislation to improve the rights of workers. Before the minmum wage there were jobs advertised in Accrington Observer that were paying £1 an hour (for a 40 hour week). There was a public meeting in Accrington Town Hall, attended by all the parliamentary candidates, when asked about whether it was acceptable that some employers were paying £1 an hour - the only candidate who thought it was acceptable, was the Conservative candidate.

I do realise that in 1997 you were probably still at primary school and did not understand about the 'slave labour' wages people were expected to work for. However many of us, on this forum do remember the times before the minimum wage and will fight to make sure that it is not destroyed by David Cameron and his public school 'hooray henry' cronies.

andrew i'm sure is well aware of these facts claytonender, but refuses to acknowledge them.:rolleyes:

claytonender 27-11-2009 22:59

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 765590)
andrew i'm sure is well aware of these facts claytonender, but refuses to acknowledge them.:rolleyes:

I can't think why :rolleyes:

cashman 27-11-2009 23:08

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 765591)
I can't think why :rolleyes:

Me nan bless her,always used to say to me - "None so blind, as they who will not see".;)

andrewb 27-11-2009 23:42

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 765589)
On the subject of the minimum wage - there was a private members bill (put forward by some Conservative MP's which included Nigel Evans the MP for Ribble Valley) to allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage - which was tantamount to abolishing it. Why did David Cameron allow any of his MP's to bring this bill forward if he is in favour of the Minimum Wage?

It was the publicity that the Unions gave to the bill that succeeded in getting it stopped - I don't remember David Cameron speaking against the bill.

Andrew, over the last 150 years, it has always been the Conservatives who have opposed legislation to improve the rights of workers. Before the minmum wage there were jobs advertised in Accrington Observer that were paying £1 an hour (for a 40 hour week). There was a public meeting in Accrington Town Hall, attended by all the parliamentary candidates, when asked about whether it was acceptable that some employers were paying £1 an hour - the only candidate who thought it was acceptable, was the Conservative candidate.

I do realise that in 1997 you were probably still at primary school and did not understand about the 'slave labour' wages people were expected to work for. However many of us, on this forum do remember the times before the minimum wage and will fight to make sure that it is not destroyed by David Cameron and his public school 'hooray henry' cronies.

It was a private members bill not Conservative Party Policy. David Cameron has no control over private members bills. You're aware of this, we've had the same discussion before. Bringing it up again now is just a rehash of the attempts to create a fake dividing line. David Cameron has confirmed that it is Conservative Party policy to keep the minimum wage.

Your final comment just displays cheap reverse snobbery.

claytonender 28-11-2009 00:14

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765597)
It was a private members bill not Conservative Party Policy. David Cameron has no control over private members bills. You're aware of this, we've had the same discussion before. Bringing it up again now is just a rehash of the attempts to create a fake dividing line. David Cameron has confirmed that it is Conservative Party policy to keep the minimum wage.

Your final comment just displays cheap reverse snobbery.



I am sure if he had wanted to that David Cameron could have put pressure on the MP's concerned to not table the bill. I have every right to include anything that I feel is pertinent to my posts and quite frankly I do not have to attempt to create a dividing line as one enormous line already exists and will do so until hell freezes over.

Also Andrew I will be the judge of what I wish to include in my posts not you.

Regarding my final comment I was not displaying (I repeat NOT) reverse snobbery. What right do you have to form an opinion of why I typed that sentence. It is my honestly held opinion that David Cameron and his cronies are a bunch of no hopers born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Maybe when you are less wet behind the ears (with more knowlege of real life - not what you have read in books or been told by your lecturers), you will be more qualified to argue with your elders. Until then it might be wise to
keep your mouth shut and not presume you know the motives of others in their posts.

andrewb 28-11-2009 00:22

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 765598)
I am sure if he had wanted to that David Cameron could have put pressure on the MP's concerned to not table the bill. I have every right to include anything that I feel is pertinent to my posts and quite frankly I do not have to attempt to create a dividing line as one enormous line already exists and will do so until hell freezes over.

Also Andrew I will be the judge of what I wish to include in my posts not you.

Regarding my final comment I was not displaying (I repeat NOT) reverse snobbery. What right do you have to form an opinion of why I typed that sentence. It is my honestly held opinion that David Cameron and his cronies are a bunch of no hopers born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Maybe when you are less wet behind the ears (with more knowlege of real life - not what you have read in books or been told by your lecturers), you will be more qualified to argue with your elders. Until then it might be wise to
keep your mouth shut and not presume you know the motives of others in their posts.

Claytonender the bill was withdrawn. Do you not think there might have been some action behind the scenes to ensure that was the case? You were displaying reverse snobbery. You referred to them in a derogatory way by their class and education.

I will not 'keep my mouth shut', as much as this may be an inconvenience to you. :)

Take a look 1 minute in.

YouTube - David Cameron speech: 'Government got too big'

claytonender 28-11-2009 00:40

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765600)
Claytonender the bill was withdrawn. Do you not think there might have been some action behind the scenes to ensure that was the case? You were displaying reverse snobbery. You referred to them in a derogatory way by their class and education.

I will not 'keep my mouth shut', as much as this may be an inconvenience to you. :)

But the bill was only withdrawn when there was a massive publicity campaign by the unions against it - if David Cameron had wished he could have prevented it ever being tabled in the first place.

Only I can be the judge of whether I was displaying reverse snobbery - I sometimes refer to lots of things in what you might perceive to be a 'derogatory' way but that does not mean I am displaying snobbery in any form. Your problem is that you can not bear anyone to criticise your 'saintly' leader.

Quite frankly I am not interested in your opinions and they certainly do not inconvenience me. I just wish you would grow up.

Mancie 28-11-2009 01:16

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765506)
Mancie would have people believe. It's very easy for Mancie to just come along and write a loud of nonsense. The problem he has is that it is just that - a load of nonsense. Just take for example his view that 'the Conservatives would get rid of the minimum wage', it's rubbish, but it's politically useful for him to get angry about. As the saying goes, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

OK Andrew..you seem to know the Tory policy for an economic recovery, any chance of you giving an insight of that policy?.. I'm willing to bet it will not involved the highest earners in the country contributing in any form, quite the opposite.. so were will the Tories make the cuts and increase income for the treasury?..if history is anything to go by it will be gained from the lower paid along with single parents and those who struggle most in our "society"

SPUGGIE J 28-11-2009 06:15

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Maybe as some of the high earners are in the banking business then they should get hit in the pocket. They are partly responsible for the mess the countries in!!!!

Wynonie Harris 28-11-2009 08:18

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 765619)
Maybe as some of the high earners are in the banking business then they should get hit in the pocket. They are partly responsible for the mess the countries in!!!!

Don't bank on it ;) ...whoever gets into power!

Boeing Guy 28-11-2009 08:40

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
And lets not forget that Peter Mandleson knows where you all live, so no knocking Gordon or he will come and visit you in the night.......

Wynonie Harris 28-11-2009 08:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 765632)
so no knocking Gordon or he will come and visit you in the night.......

What a horrible thought...the very idea of that gurning, twitching sod turning up on my doorstep while there's a full moon out disturbs me greatly. :eek:

andrewb 28-11-2009 09:21

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 765603)
if David Cameron had wished he could have prevented it ever being tabled in the first place.

Your problem is that you can not bear anyone to criticise your 'saintly' leader.

Claytonender, how do you know David Cameron was aware of the private members bill before it was tabled by individual MPs? I doubt he did.

I am fine with anybody criticising David Cameron if it's based on factual policy. I've done so myself in the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie
OK Andrew..you seem to know the Tory policy for an economic recovery, any chance of you giving an insight of that policy?.. I'm willing to bet it will not involved the highest earners in the country contributing in any form, quite the opposite.. so were will the Tories make the cuts and increase income for the treasury?..if history is anything to go by it will be gained from the lower paid along with single parents and those who struggle most in our "society"

Mancie, I don't have time to write every single policy relating to the economy, but here are some. You'll be pleased to hear that David Cameron has agreed with raising the top rate of tax to 50% during the economic recovery, quite a steep rise considering it has been 40% for some time. This is a policy I disagree on (surprise Claytonender :)), as does Hyndburn's current MP.

It's not all about tax rises though, they can't entirely solve the huge budget deficit. We have to remember the scale of the crisis we're now in. In the 70's the budget deficit was 7% and had to be bailed out by an IMF loan, now the deficit is a staggering 14%. Whichever party comes into power spending will be cut in many areas. I'm sure personally you disagree with it, but we simply can't keep this budget deficit up or we will lose the confidence of investors preventing us from borrowing and things could get a lot worse. Not to mention the interest we're paying on our current borrowings. The interest is far greater than some of our current spending budgets - what a waste. The Conservative Party are thus far the only party to ring fence the NHS from spending cuts.

There's lots of in depth policies to help a recovery, I just thought I'd post a flavour of the tax and spending policy.

cashman 28-11-2009 10:48

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765647)
Claytonender, how do you know David Cameron was aware of the private members bill before it was tabled by individual MPs? I doubt he did.

I am fine with anybody criticising David Cameron if it's based on factual policy. I've done so myself in the past.



Mancie, I don't have time to write every single policy relating to the economy, but here are some. You'll be pleased to hear that David Cameron has agreed with raising the top rate of tax to 50% during the economic recovery, quite a steep rise considering it has been 40% for some time. This is a policy I disagree on (surprise Claytonender :)), as does Hyndburn's current MP.

It's not all about tax rises though, they can't entirely solve the huge budget deficit. We have to remember the scale of the crisis we're now in. In the 70's the budget deficit was 7% and had to be bailed out by an IMF loan, now the deficit is a staggering 14%. Whichever party comes into power spending will be cut in many areas. I'm sure personally you disagree with it, but we simply can't keep this budget deficit up or we will lose the confidence of investors preventing us from borrowing and things could get a lot worse. Not to mention the interest we're paying on our current borrowings. The interest is far greater than some of our current spending budgets - what a waste. The Conservative Party are thus far the only party to ring fence the NHS from spending cuts.

There's lots of in depth policies to help a recovery, I just thought I'd post a flavour of the tax and spending policy.

i'll just post a flavour of whats in todays "Mail" page4 by a senior Tory councillor= Stephen Greenhalgh conservative leader of Hammersmith n Fulham Council, he said- My mates are all in shadow cabinet waiting, i went to university wi em they havent run a p1ss up in a brewery, theres more but i couldn't type it all fer laughing.

shillelagh 28-11-2009 16:29

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 765663)
i'll just post a flavour of whats in todays "Mail" page4 by a senior Tory councillor= Stephen Greenhalgh conservative leader of Hammersmith n Fulham Council, he said- My mates are all in shadow cabinet waiting, i went to university wi em they havent run a p1ss up in a brewery, theres more but i couldn't type it all fer laughing.

there you go cashy .. you can laugh again ...:D:D:D


Cameron's team not up to the job, says his aide in astonishing attack | Mail Online

Wynonie Harris 28-11-2009 18:46

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Surprise, surprise...so, we're going to have one lot who're not up to running the country, replaced by another lot who're not up to running the country. :rolleyes:

One thing that did genuinely surprise me, though, was that the Mail of all papers should choose to run with this story. I thought they were a Tory-supporting rag?

What are they up to? :confused:

Stumped 28-11-2009 19:39

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 765851)
Surprise, surprise...so, we're going to have one lot who're not up to running the country, replaced by another lot who're not up to running the country. :rolleyes:

One thing that did genuinely surprise me, though, was that the Mail of all papers should choose to run with this story. I thought they were a Tory-supporting rag?

What are they up to? :confused:

The Daily Mail can only be rated alongside any downmarket woman's magazine by any stretch of the imagination, therefore their current editorial policies can only be categorised as rabble rousing trash. Besides, it won't matter who gets into Parliament at the next 'engineered' election as, like it or not, it's an odds on certainty that the non-elected Brussel Sprouts will be running the show from their well-heeled, fortified bunker. Perhaps with Mancie as their pet machine-gunner, poised to mow down any opposition!

MargaretR 28-11-2009 23:28

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
1 Attachment(s)
It is about time that you folks started reading uncensored news "like what I do"

accyman 29-11-2009 13:58

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 765925)
It is about time that you folks started reading uncensored news "like what I do"

you news is old ernie wise died years ago :confused:

Neil 29-11-2009 17:03

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 765925)
It is about time that you folks started reading uncensored news "like what I do"

Your news is just as biased and as fairytale like as all the other news :D

Less 29-11-2009 17:40

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 766113)
Your news is just as biased and as fairytale like as all the other news :D

Don't be silly Neil, fairy tales start off with doom & gloom get worse towards the middle but always end, "and they all lived happily ever after".

Her News always starts, "We are doomed", in the middle we get, "We are well and truly doomed", and end with, "if any of you haven't slit your wrists yet, now would be a good time to do it because we are all without exception doomed".

(I would hate her to miss this so if someone could be kind enough to P.M. it to her then maybe she won't regret having me on her ignore list).

Mind you, she is a woman I bet she peeks now and then, (don't you maggie)?
http://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s7733.gif

Eric 30-11-2009 19:16

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 765506)
I think policies are very, very important. It has never been Labours 'underlying philosophy' to make the poor poorer, to make it that some of the lowest paid workers are taxed 96 pence in the pound for every extra hour worked over their contracted hours - heck I doubt it was Labours underlying philosophy to allow our economy to be the worst prepared for recession than any other industrialised country. Their policies however have allowed this to happen.

I don't for a second believe that the 'wicked tories' want the poorest unemployed, as if it gives them some pleasure, as Mancie would have people believe. It's very easy for Mancie to just come along and write a loud of nonsense. The problem he has is that it is just that - a load of nonsense. Just take for example his view that 'the Conservatives would get rid of the minimum wage', it's rubbish, but it's politically useful for him to get angry about. As the saying goes, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Think I'll stick by my comment that policies are irrelevant ... more than that they are just bs, tossed out gain votes, and then discarded after a party wins power. The excuse is usually something like: "We would follow up on our promise to (insert bs promise of choice), but the preceding (insert party of choice) govt. left such a mess that we can't do it at this point in time.

I mentioned underlying philosophies .... what I meant by this is that there are certain common tendencies in tory parties (and any other party). I can use the example of Canada. The Canadian tory party is unwilling to do anything significant to help the environment. They cut back government funding for daycare. They resist increases in the minimum wage. They cut access to unemployment insurance. They resist raising taxes for high income earners. They gutted the gun registry law. They wish to re-open the debate on gay marriage, and free access to abortion. They promise to get tough on crime, at a time when crime is on the decrease. Etc. etc. Oh, and with the tories, Medicare is always threatened ... thank god we have a minority govt.

accyman 02-12-2009 08:22

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
sounds to me your tories are the same as ours Eric

cashman 02-12-2009 08:24

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 766776)
sounds to me your tories are the same as ours Eric

Same the world oer mate.

Neil 02-12-2009 08:34

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less
Don't be silly Neil, fairy tales start off with doom & gloom get worse towards the middle but always end, "and they all lived happily ever after".

Her News always starts, "We are doomed", in the middle we get, "We are well and truly doomed", and end with, "if any of you haven't slit your wrists yet, now would be a good time to do it because we are all without exception doomed".

(I would hate her to miss this so if someone could be kind enough to P.M. it to her then maybe she won't regret having me on her ignore list).

Mind you, she is a woman I bet she peeks now and then, (don't you maggie)?
http://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s7733.gif

Sorry, my mistake :D

Eric 02-12-2009 18:24

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 766776)
sounds to me your tories are the same as ours Eric

Don't say this too loud, or Andrew might decide to emigrate.;):D

accyman 02-12-2009 18:38

Re: latest poll shows Tories only 6% ahead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 766873)
Don't say this too loud, or Andrew might decide to emigrate.;):D

not really providing much of an incentive not to there mate :D:D:D:D:D


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