Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Is this right?..this bloke gets sent to the USA to stand trail for computer hacking..for myself I reckon it is a bad use of the treaty we signed with the USA.
Hacker loses extradition battle - MSN News - MSN UK

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

You are dead right on this one. The US, by the way, will not allow any of its citizens to be extradited. And this is what you get for being their only real friend in the world. When you bend over forwards to accomodate the US, guess what happens:eek:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Heads you lose tails you lose. They shaft you all ways whether friend or foe. The US will only sign treaties if its to their advantage only and this is a case in point. If a guy like this can get in then what would/could a serious pro do?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I agree with Eric and Spuggie.. but at the same time we have that mad monk no hands hansa awaiting a trip to the USA ... were do we draw the line?..is it yeh or nay on extradition ?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

What I don't understand is why all these folks like Abu Hamza have all these appeals , used to be every immigration office/border control station all over the world had a big red rubber stamp saying "PNG" (persona non grata) ....and you were kicked out , have a couple myself in old passports from when I "crossed" a border without the bother of using the customs/immigration posts , just got escorted back to the country I had entered from .
Same thing happens all the time at airports all over the world , if you can't show proof of a return ticket , sufficent funds or entry visa you are denied entry , so why is the UK so easy ? :confused: :confused:
Maybe the local MP can explain now he is retiring and has no reason to follow the party line :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Extradition should be the case fer "All" criminals from whichever country in my view, but a treaty which favours one country is not acceptable, as well as this hacker, the clowns that signed it on our behalf should be brought to book in my view.:( but i'm dreaming again.:(

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

You can stand up to the US ... many upstanding Canadian citizens came here as draft dodgers and deserters in the Viet Nam War.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

No, it isn't right........the chap should be given a medal.....he had no ulterior motive for getting into the US files, and he showed up a weakness in their security system.

The problem is that the politicians in this country are so 'cosied up' to the US, that they don't want to do anything that might just alter that position.......and bu88er the rights of the British populace.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Let's just have a look at how the US does things. In 2005, Venzuala was seeking the extradition of one Luis Posada Carriles to face charges for the bombing of a Cubana airliner, killing, I believe, 73 people. The charges were quite credible; however, after he had escaped from a Venezualan jail the was hired by US covert operatives to play a role in Washington's terrorist war against Nicaragua. This dilemma was solved when the US courts rejected Venezuala's appeal in direct violation of a US-Venezuala extradition treaty.

Washington rejects or merely ignores extradition requests.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Just read this: According to Geoffrey Robertson QC, British human rights lawyer, "to send a British citizen to the US, without any right to bail, to face 10 years in prison for a crime for which he would unlikely to receive any custodial sentence if tried here amounts to 'cruel and unusual punishment' in breach of [your]1689 Bill of Rights." He goes on to say that "The home secretary should not hide behind the weasel words of the European Convention, when he should be following the law laid down by our own historic Bill of Rights." Interesting to see that "Europe" crops up in this one.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

It crops up everywhere in the governance of this country, Eric. Unfortunately, a lot on here won't admit it. :rolleyes:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

He is being used as a scapegoat because the computer system they had was vunerable and they cant admit that.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

the guy shouldnt have hacked the system and should be tried under UK law as the crime was commited in the UK i assume

saying that if he was a better hacker he woudlnt have left a trail leading back to him so it serves himself right

as for extroditing him will this lead to peopel been extrodited for speeding fines they have aquired in the u.s.a because i can think of two peopel who have recieved letters from teh u.s.a asking them to go back and appear in court for speeding lol

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Could be a way to get a cheap holiday. Do they pay for the flights both way? I am sure you would get bail for only a speeding ticket and US trials can take months :D:D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

he has aspergers he shouldnt be sent there... he wasnt 'hacking' in the sense of wanting to go in and do something bad, he wanted to look at it because he was interested, theres a difference. people with aspergers display obsessive behviour and have difficulty controlling their actions and also porr social skills, depending on where he is on the autistic spectrum he probably didnt even realise he shouldnt do it.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Unfortunately for him that is no excuse for breaking the law. If he does not know what he can and can not do ( or is not capable of knowing ) he should have been supervised better.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

too damn right unless hes like rain man he shoulda known better :rolleyes:

maybe i shoudl rob a bank and claim it was my athletes foot that made me not know i was doing wrong pmsl

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

he knew what he was doing was wrong ... he has admitted that. So basically he knew what he was doing was wrong. So he should be punished. The offence was committed in America .. the UK was where he was .. but the US is where the computers he hacked into are. So he should be tried in America ...

Aspergers, by the way emamum, does not excuse anyone for not being tried for any offences they do. I know this. You are saying that because he has aspergers he shouldnt be extradited to the US for trial for something he knows he was doing was wrong. Yes i know the autistic spectrum ...how far it goes ... and surely so does everyone else who has made this decision. Its just his mum doesnt want to see him go to America end up in jail and she wouldnt be able to visit him. She wants him to be tried over here .. on a lesser charge ... and hopefully with all the press coverage .. get a lesser sentence if found guilty and she would be able to visit him.

This has put everyones perception of aspergers back 10 years ..

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

no it hasnt its brought into the publics eye, aspergers seems to be seen as a made up illness for mother of badly behaved children to hide behind and it isnt this will show people its real...

i was under the impression he didnt know what e had done was wrong... if he didnt have the capability to understand that then he shouldnt stand trial..

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

well next time read the information about the case first before jumping in.

Glasgow-born Mr McKinnon has always admitted hacking into the computer systems in 2001-2

from BBC NEWS | UK | Hacker step closer to extradition


it has brought aspergers back into the public eye .. and that some people who have the condition will think if he can fight this and win and stay in this country instead of going to us and possibly having to face jail time .. i'll use this in court .. and see if i can get a lower jail term or community service or even get away with it. And people who dont have this condition will see another person getting away with it .. and then complain ...

I will admit i know some kids who do have this and whose parents have had a tough time with trying to control their children .. but also there are some kids who are just badly behaved and their parents are using this as an excuse for their kids .. and collecting the benefits to go with it ...

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

The worry I have is that this bloke is likely to be found guilty and sentenced as a potential terrorist, the bloke has broken the law in both countries but to bang him up for years would "not be cricket"

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

....and what he was looking for should never have been a secret in the first place

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Lots of things need to be kept secret.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

What benefits would you get for having a child with this and why?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

you get disability and carers, if you apply for it (which i havent btw), your child needs to be diagnosed with aspergers, its adhd you dont need a diagnosis and can apply for benefits with a badly behaved child.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Why do you get money for looking after your own children? Is that not why we are parents?

I can understand money assistance if your child is needs special equipment to help lead a normal life or you need help because the child has other special needs.

And I really am opposed to getting money without being diagnosed, that sounds ridiculous and completely open to abuse. If people do need financial support to help with such a condition (and in some cases they might) it should be on a case by case diagnosis not just a hand out.

Am I missing the point here?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

you get disability because your child needs extra care. adhd is hard to diagnose, you could have a report from an educational psychologist to back you up but thats not a proper diagnosis. on the forms you describe how your child is and what extra care you think they need and someone makes a decision for you. i was given all the forms but i never sent them back, he isnt disabled.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Aspergers manifests itself in many ways, one of which causes the sufferer to be 'amoral'....wherein he knows right from wrong but his brain cannot recognise the reasoning behind it and his flawed logic therefore dictates he ignores the distinction. Another variation causes OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) which is probably the reason behind his questing for 'hidden' UFO information.

Neil has it right, its the lack of supervision that has caused this, the wrong person is on trial, but how many of you know exactly which websites your son/daughter have visited recently, (you really think they cant get around the parental controls :) )

Oh and for the joker who quoted 'rain man'...that single film did more to harm the understanding of autism/aspergers than anything I can think of.

The argument here however is not the that he has Aspergers, but that the US has a one sided treaty that allows them to extradite from the UK without trial but denies the UK the right to extradite from the US without trial.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I am not being ignorant here, well I suppose I am because I don't know, what extra care does the child need that the money will pay for?

I do not agree to just filling out forms, a formal diagnosis should be required from a fully qualified Doctor. Anyone can lie on a form if proof is not needed.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

neil theres loads of kids labeled aspergers or adhd that are just simply bratts brought up by parents who have no control or desire to dicipline their child or children, one lad on my street laughs at how his solicitor utters the word aspergers and minimum punishment is handed down to him from teh police or court where he attends on a regular basis, there are some genuine cases of apsergers and adhd but there seems to be an epedemic of it since it came out you can claim carers allowance for it so you get the doctors flooded with bad parents demanding their child be diagnosed with aspergers ruining it for those genuine parents who are at their wits end and are trying to get help for tehir child .

a child at a school local to accrington put a sharpened object to my sons throat and threatened to cut it not too long ago and the school wasnt going to take any action apart from having a word with him because he was " special needs" and it wasnt until i threatened to involve teh police that he was suspended for a week then had to do his lessons in solitary for a week when he returned from suspension

if my son had done it to somone or anyone elses child had commited this offence they would have been expelled and if a child is that much danger to other children they shoudl be isolated and taught in a different school that can cater for knife attacks

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Irrespective of the aspergers excuse, it would appear that everyone is making the assumption that this character simply hacked into the Pentagon files and had a good look around. However, if the rumours which I have heard are true, then he did substancially more than that. You may possibly find details of these rumours on Google - I have not looked - but quite honestly, if true this guy is a menace and needs to be locked up for a very long time. It is no wonder the US government is seeking to get it's hands on him and the UK government - while paying lip service to the human rights brigade - will ultimately let him go.

I believe that quite a few MP's are aware of the tale of what this guy actually did. If Greg Pope is one of them and he reads this, I wonder if he would like to comment?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

there is no reason to be in anyone elses computer regardless of wether it be a private or public computer.People sticking up for this guy sure wouldnt be doing so if he hacked into tehir computers and i bet everyone who encounters a virus would like to wring the neck of who created it and wouldnt really care what trumped up illness they claimed to have.

what if he had decided that for fun he would hack airport computer systems and caused deaths would his illness still be an acceptable excuse then?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

the guys a cyber terrorist and i hope they throw the key away after they lock him up, he didnt just take a nosey around he deliberatly crippled a section of americas military network and stole encrypted information which i have no doubt he will have probably tried to crack or he woudnt have copied the files

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Thanks for that info.

This bit interests me.

Why would we want the expense of keeping him in prison for something he did in the US?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

its called a crowd pleaser to appease those guilable enough to believe his alleged disorder had anything to do with his crime:rolleyes:

a few years without a computer and tossing big bubba's salad would probably do him teh world of good

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Firstly…the original point is that the UK has allowed itself to be manoeuvred into an imbalanced treaty where they can extradite from us without trial, but we cannot extradite from them without trial. And that remains unanswered unless you accept Alan Johnsons comment of this issue being ‘academic’

Secondly… this ‘cyber terrorist’ is alleged to have done all the US accuse him of from a remote server, using a basic password hack program that a child of 10 can set up, on a 56k dial up modem. Do you seriously believe that the mighty United States of America’s security system is that inadequate?

Thirdly…I'm amazed how readily people believe the U.S. government is telling the truth on this issue, yet believe they have lied over WMD, Afghanistan, 9/11 and the 1969 moon landings.

As for the ‘confession’ that he had infiltrated all these systems, destroyed all this information, brought Washington to a standstill, caused black Monday, aids, typhus etc..etc..….anyone recall that guy with mental issues who ‘confessed’ to a crime he didn’t commit and spent the best part of his life in jail before DNA proved his innocence who died recently.

I may be gullible but I do not have to resort to crude sexual innuendo to make a point and I also know that Mckinnon is constantly monitored and hasn’t had access to the internet for over 7 years.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Governments lie as a matter of course.
I think that the extent of the damage may well have been exaggerated in order to procure this extradition and deter others
...they have made him a 'patsy' (they've done it before many times)

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Another Conspiracy nutter......they're taking over...unless it's Margaret with a new pen-name trying to confuse us.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

We prefer the name - 'truthers':D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

he knew he was doing wrong .. so should face the consequences .. same like a child nicking a sweet from the local shop, the same as a teenager breaking a window, the same as a bloke kicking in a door when in a temper .. there is always consequences if you break the law .. and hes admitted he knew what he was doing was wrong .. so to face the consequences...

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Hopefully he will, unless the do-gooders win a do.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

What again?:rolleyes:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

And your sole brief on this was what some guy told you in the pub last night based on what Alan Johnson said in parliament :D

If i'm a 'conspiracy nutter' because I dont believe the US government and UK parliament always tell the truth then I willingly accept the label.

Edit..btw I was speaking about some of the posters on this thread who disbelieve 9/11 and moon landings who are willing to believe the US in this matter and I exclude myself from this

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

By the way, has this guy had a trial yet?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

i would expect him to go to prison even if he was only hacking a member of teh publics computer and i couldnt care less how basic the program was that he was using to hack computers he was still hacking and hackers are nasty little sh1ts who invade other peoples privacy, steal email user accounts/passwords and much worse so deserve everything they get and more

if you steal a penny chew from a shop it is the same crime as if you stole a top of the range tv from a shop so screw him and his boo hoo sob story, you dont accidently become a hacker you have to deliberatly set out to learn how to be a vindictive little sh1t:rolleyes:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

some don't seem to think so accyman, some use the excuse of a one-sided extradition treaty, which it is n its wrong in my view, but as you say hacking is invading someones privacy, some seem to forget the act. still any excuse fer a conspiricy, sod him deserves all he gets.:rolleyes:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

i would much rather see him go to an american prison they know how to treat prisoners over there and of course big bubba's salad wont toss its self so get him over there asap lol

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Only on accringtonweb.com

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

If all avenues of judicial scrutiny have been followed to the letter with no recourse that they got it wrong then he has to be extradited. I may believe that the treaty is one sided but as it looks like its been done by the book then he has to face his accusers to prove he was incapable of understanding what he did to the American judicial system. It is America he he has to convince as they are the victim and the only way is to be over there. To do what he did needs knowledge and understanding on how to hack in the first place thus he had understanding of what he was doing. So if he understood what to do to get in the system then why dosnt he know it was wrong? Wonder if a burglar will try the same line the next time they are caught?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

People seem to forget that different countries have different legal systems that work different. At the height of the English Empire then you had basically the same rights and legal system. We have now moved on from that so you are treated as the legal system of that country has been set up.

Would you expext to be treated under English law if you broke the law in France Germany Spain Israel Mexico or Brazil?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I think it is a difficult one to decide where he broke the law and where he should stand trial.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Ok, my last plea, then the defence rests...

FACT...The government that claims this guy is a cyber terrorist and did all this damage is the same government that claimed that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

FACT....The judicial system that he will be tried under is the same one that allowed miscarriages of justice so that OJ Simpson and Michael Jackson could play their get out of jail free cards, yet still holds people in Guantanemo Bay without trial.

FACT...The alleged crime was carried out in this country not in the US.

FACT...And finally..regardless of what you believe to be the truth about the case... we have a biased extradition treaty, and that the current labour home secretary describes this bias as 'academic'.

Airstrip One looms ever closer.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

i think its as clear as can be in these circumstances, he hacked into the pentagon computers therefore answerable to the yanks. thats the only fact that matters guiness.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Guinness if a guy sent you an invasive program to your computer that stole your personal details and used that fraudulently then were would you want him tried in the country of origin or here?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

WRONG - havnt you heard they elected a black dude since iraq :rolleyes:

different leader and different govenment and whatever happened over iraq has absolutely nothing to do with this case what so ever

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Guinness is several years behind us on world events. That and owning a very narrow field of view blinkers.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

And that is a FACT!:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Try to actually research before you post, these events happened in 2001-2002. Ergo same government!

Talk about herd mentality in accrington..2 posts in rapid succession follow blindly making the same error.

Seems like you guys need to read more instead of playing forum games :tongueout :tongueout :tongueout

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

You tell them Margaret:alright:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Good answer,you just hit the nail on the head with this quote,Smuggie

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

well that was one long rest.:D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

have a read of this .. its the timeline given by the Telegraph ..

Gary McKinnon extradition: timeline on how the fight unfolded - Telegraph

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

How old is this guy? seems funny he had been fighting extradition 4 YEARS, before being diagnosed,:confused: more like a last throw of the dice to me.:rolleyes:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I have the right to rebut stupid remarks.

We have the right to debate and disagree, my interpretation may disagree with yours, but I do not post something as fact without being certain of what I post.

Your buddy jumped and fell on his face by not even being aware of the timeframe of this case.

Spuggie and yourself tried to score cheap shots, which judging from what i've read on this forum is beneath both of you, and you both now have egg on your face.

A simple apology would have been nice, instead I get another cheap shot. You are so much better than this Cashman..I'm disappointed

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I have already read this, and much more besides...McKinnon allegedly committed the crimes in 2001-2002 though. It was much later that the now defunct UK anti hacker squad got involved.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

the facts you speak only of quoting are not valid cos they are not relavant. its you that are trying to take people fer dummies for quoting em. its you who should apologise fer taking people as stupid.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Relevance...if a government will lie over something as serious as weapons of mass destruction, why would they not lie about the amount of damage done by a cyber terrorist

Relevance..proof of miscarriage of justice and inability to receive a fair trial

Relevance...this point is debatable in law, I am prepared to stand corrected but I do not believe that there is a law covering where you should be tried in case of cross border cyber crime, and therefore but for a flawed extradition treaty etc..etc..

The last point as I stated has nothing to do with the case, it was simply a statement that it has highlighted that we have a biased treaty that the current government doesn't give a fig about.

I wont slam the door on my way out

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

just mind it doesnt hit you on the ass then

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

ya still have not answered what people are asking ya, Has the guy commited a crime? who against? do you think its a serious crime? i have no love fer quite a few of our laws/rules etc, but as they are in force i obey em.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Glasgow-born Mr McKinnon has always admitted hacking into the computer systems in 2001-2 - which the US government says caused damage costing $800,000 (£550,000).

BBC NEWS | UK | Hacker step closer to extradition

BBC NEWS | Technology | Profile: Gary McKinnon


When Britain's hi-tech crime unit finally came for him 2002, Mr McKinnon was not surprised. He told the BBC: "I think I almost wanted to be caught, because it was ruining me. I had this classic thing of wanting to be caught so there would be an end to it."
He thought he would be tried in Britain, and that he might get, at the most, three to four years in prison.
Then, later that year, the United States decided to indict him with charges that could mean up to 70 years in a US prison. It has never been entirely clear why it took US officials until 2005 to begin extradition proceedings. Gary McKinnon's been fighting extradition ever since, on the grounds that he never intended anything malicious by his hacking. He's been free on bail, but it has been a strange kind of freedom.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

A better kind of freedom than he will be getting when Big Bubba gets a hold of him :D:D:D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I think I'm with you ... mostly. Until the US respects international law, and until there are extradition treaties with this hegomenic country, that have as their base complete equality of treatment, no British subject should be sent there to stand trial. You can say "no" to the sonsofbitches ....

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

A one sided extradition treaty is another example of our government's subservience to the U.S.A.

Never mind being America's poodle, our government's not only willingly bent over, but also handed them the lubrication.

By the way, I think the hacker knew exactly what penalties he faced, and his arrogance is evident from the messages he left on the hacked systems, and the Asperger's is just being used as a defence for his being a cretin.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

I'm thinking the Conrad Black trial show's that US justice can go easy at times :D :D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Several years ago, overwhelming majorities in the US Senate and the House passed a bill barring US aid to countries that refuse requests for extradition ... American requests that is. The only concern voiced was that the bill would theoretically bar aid to the US client state of Israel because of its refusal to extradict a man charged with a murder in Maryland in 1979, I think. The man, I can't remember his name; will have to look it up, had fled to Israel and claimed citizenship thro' his father. It seems like the US treats its client states differently.

If the man has broken the laws of the United Kingdom, which he probably has, then he should be tried in Britain. And if found guilty, he should serve whatever time he is given in a British jail. I still believe that the "cruel and unusual punishment" argument applies.

And for those who seem to think that the admittedly tough US prison system works, look at the crime rate in that country. And, incidently, consider such questions as: Why is it that one in five of black American males is, or has been in, the US prison system.

And before I shut up and head off to the fridge for a beer, the US routinely sends convicted Canadians back to Canada to serve their sentences. Not in all cases, but enough. Betcha Conrad Black wishes he hadn't given up his Canadian Citizenship.:tongueout:D:D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

try being a liberal and live in/near Oakland California , sorry I ran out of excuses years ago , still go to Joanie Baez concerts but the delusion that "it's the mans fault" doesn't work anymore :confused: :confused:

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

Know what you mean ... but, the problem is more complex than a lot of folks think; and, I suspect that you realise this .... in the sense that it is not that a particular "race" is more inately criminal than another, but, that over the years, racism has pushed a particular group to the margins of society. And it at these margins that crime becomes a way of life, rather than an aberration. We have the same problem up here. First Nations' people are over represented in the prison population. We look at it as a social problem, not a racial one.

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

This question was not a cheap shot but one that was asking you that if in the same position as the US government what would you want. Would he/she be tried where the crime was committed based on your country of residence or the country were he/she was resident at the time. He might not have committed in the eyes of our judicial system but has gone through due process for extradition to the country that views it as a serious defence. If I threw a brick through the window of a house in England I would be tried and convicted in England even if I planned it here were i live in Scotland. It is possible to be in Scotland and still throw the brick over the border at a house so should I get away with it because I lobbed it from my side of the border?

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

BBC News - UFO investigations unit closed by Ministry of Defence

so what will mr mckinnon think about this ..:D

Re: Hacker loses extradition battle
 

if they had been looking at our boarders for illigal aliens instea dof the sky for the past god knows how many years we may have a few less of them running around :D