This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Thug Walid Salem boasts he is untouchable as the householder he tormented is jailed | Mail Online

Don't need to add much to this, seems to show just what a first class justice system we really have:(:(:(:(

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

12 years of 'Tough on crime'.....yeah

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Reminds me of the "Tony Martin" case, how long ago would that be?:rolleyes: approx 10 yrs i think n still nowt learned.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Be interesting to see if the legal system receives the general toughening up that most ordinary people are crying out for, if/when the boy David takes up the reins of power next year.

Not holding my breath, personally. :rolleyes:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Am I missing something here? The bloke was attacked streets away from the house with iron bars and a cricket bat that broke. How is that protecting your property?

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

what yer missing imho bernie is these were knife weilding thugs, ya aint gonna go after them wi yer bare hands, they were armed.:(

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

"Salem suffered a fractured skull, a broken jaw and brain damage"

Are they trying to say he was a normal person before that.:confused:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Spot on Dave..people paid good money on Friday nights down Blackburn to get in that state..:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Chris Grayling was on Breakfast TV yesterday morning saying that if elected the Tories will look at the rights of home owner to protect their own property. From my point of view if some scumbag is in my home in Th middle of the night intending to rob me,I ain't going to think twice before whacking hm with the nearest thing that comes to hand, because the tow rag shouldn't have been there in the first place

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Heard it all before...Tory conferences talking about "short, sharp shocks", Wille Whitelaw talking about prison life being conducted at "a brisk pace" etc etc.

Looking at the rights of the home owner is all very well, but the whole British justice system needs reforming root and branch. A toughening up of the judiciary with judges who are willing to punish criminals, rather than feeling sorry for them. An expansion of prison building with prisoners kept in much more spartan conditions than now. A wholesale ratcheting up of sentences - real life terms for murder, 30-40 year sentences for serious assaults etc. Can't see all that happening under a lightweight Blair-a-like!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

The problem is we have to put up with the Guardian reading human rights brigade Wynonie, which is a pain in itself. I have often said that the current law books should be piled high on the green out side parliament and put to the torch, and replaced by new laws tailored for the 21st century not the middle ages. We may not like a lot the Yanks do but in a lot of cases they get their sentencing right, if a criminal gets life in the states,it means life. I often laugh at sentences give here, when they say somebody is given a life sentence and must serve a minimum of 18 years, so why call it life, when it quite obviously isn't. I also think that the word concurrently be deleted from the law books, if you commit 4 crimes and get six months on each count, to me you get 2 years end of

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Might be a better person after the brain damage IMHO...........

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

The "criminals are poor, misunderstood victims of society" brigade are only a problem because governments make them a problem. If the next government (of whichever political stripe) adopted a draconian crackdown on lawbreakers, I guarantee they would receive huge public support and the bleeding heart liberals would be swept aside!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

We'd have to scrap the European Human Rights act first Wynonie, or the games a boggy, Brown would never do it, nor would Clegg (mind you he'll never get the chance) Cameron has said he'll scrap it and introduce our own rights bill

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Human rights were a good idea, but it should have always been favoured towards the victim's not the criminals

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Just found this off one of the big two parties....

...We insist on individual responsibility for crime, and will attack the causes of crime by our measures to relieve social deprivation.

....We will relieve the police of unnecessary bureaucratic burdens to get more officers back on the beat.

....
We will implement an effective sentencing system for all the main offences to ensure greater consistency and stricter punishment for serious repeat offenders. The courts will have to spell out what each sentence really means in practice. The Court of Appeal will have a duty to lay down sentencing guidelines for all the main offences. The attorney general's power to appeal unduly lenient sentences will be extended.
The prison service now faces serious financial problems. We will audit the resources available, take proper ministerial responsibility for the service, and seek to ensure that prison regimes are constructive and require inmates to face up to their offending behaviour

....have forgotten the 'order' part of 'law and order'. We will tackle the unacceptable level of anti-social behaviour and crime on our streets. Our 'zero tolerance' approach will ensure that petty criminality among young offenders is seriously addressed.


Sounds good.. well it was the Labour parties manifesto back in 97, so bearing that in mind I don't think the Conservatives can do any worse on this front.

If you want the link its:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/election97/back...b/labman6.html

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Are you trying to say that the laws you have now are medieaval:confused: If this were the case, then you should be more than happy .... torture, whipping, burning at the stake ... oh, and let's not forget hanging, drawing and quartering, fun stuff:mosher: And what would 21st century punishments be like: twenty years of watching the best of Oprah, over and over and over.:rolleyes:? And you like the American attitude to punishment, yet fail to consider that they have a crime rate that you wouldn't really want: I mean, more murders in Detroit per annum than there are in the whole of the British Isles.:eek: I still don't see any advantage in sacrificing human rights, so that some scumbag can spend a few more years behind bars.:confused: There have to be other ways of dealing with the problem without going from one knee-jerk to another every time a particular nasty crime occurs. And I always notice in discussions like this one, that white collar crimes, and crimes against humanity like the US/UK unprovoked invasion of Iraq don't bring down the heat they deserve.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

What it actually means Jaysay is that it will be 18 years before the criminal is up for consideration of parole ... doesn't mean he will be let out after this time.

As for this case, I don't agree with what the victims did .. chasing him and then beating the pulp out of him, however, is disgraceful that the perpetrator has got away with this.:mad:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

This is the same Cameron who gave a "cast-iron promise" on holding a referendum on the European Constitution? Yeah, sure... :rolleyes:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

As I said at the time what would have been the point, when the Constitution had been ratified, just meaningless posturing and a waste of money, just to find out what we already know, namely that the majority of British people woUld have rejected it. These referendums cost money, why waste it when we are already deep in the mucky stuff

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

That's strange...when he made this "cast-iron promise" I don't remember him putting any qualifications on it. Doubtless, there'll be reasons why we can't leave European Human Rights Act, either, which we'll only discover that when he gets into power.

The real reason why he doesn't want a referendum is that the inevitable rejection would then lead on to more general questions about whether we should leave the EU altogether and Cameron desperately wants to avoid that.

As for the cost, a mere drop in the ocean compared to the £14 billion we'll be handing over to Brussels next year!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

No matter what ya said at the time yer beloved leader Did Not,seems to me if labour cock up, quite a few socialists slag em off, yet when the Torys do, ya just deflect away from saying so, which to me proves me owd saying = Put a Pig in a Blue Rosette, ya will support it.:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

You may want to take that back cashy, in the near future:rolleyes:;)

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Why are ya voting Labour?:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Wash your mouth out wi soapy water :D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

...don't tell me, you're voting UKIP. ;)

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

teh law does protect the house owner you can beat the snot out of somone if you feel your life is in danger in your home but once you leave your house and chase down the attacker you are no longer in fear for your life you are chasing down and seeking retribution.

not saying i agree that he should have gone to prison but he should have beat teh attacker on his property or dragged him back to his property and claimed he never made it to teh street and all teh attacking happened in his home.

i am 100% behind anyone who gets teh better of a burgular or worse but the moment he gave chase the fear for his life excuse went out the window

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

That is not punishment, just a good night out with a friendly girl :rolleyes::D:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Same advice I gave cashy, Wynonie:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Interesting, knocking a party that has yet to come into power. the current crop of idiots have had 12 years, they have screwed the NHS/ Education/ Pensioners/ Working people/ took us into a war under false pretences/ the transport system/ put us in Eurpoe without the promised referendum, and it;s all Maggies/ Ted Heaths, John Majors, Boris's fault*

Insane......


* Delete where appropriate

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Oh right, so the Tories are going to give us a referendum then? I'll look forward to seeing that. :rolleyes:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

I doubt any party will give us a referendum, but thanks for that, you just illustrated my point.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

a bit closer to home , lot of good its doing the folk of the Blackburn/Darwen area having Jack Straw (Justice Minister) as local MP , makes one wonder who the Labour Party really represents .

Failed asylum seeker who killed 12-year-old girl wins court bid to stay in Britain | Mail Online

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

I little bit of torture and whipping I can handle :theband:.... but I think I'll pass on the hanging etc.:eek: And what do you pay these friendly girls of yours:confused:;)

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Not really sure, Eric, not been down the Barbary Coast for a fair while now, so lost track of the going rates.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

heard they usually ask= Can ya change a pound!:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

So if the Tories have also broken their promise on having a referendum, what's the point of laying it at Labour's door...or is that just a prime example of the sort of hypocritical, tit-for-tat, electioneering that has brought mainstream politics into such disrepute in this country? :rolleyes:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Perhaps it's because Labour are the governing party and had every chance to give us a referendum before it was ratified. You know a referendum on Lisbon after it's implemented is a complete waste of time and money.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Democracy provides the illusion of choice.
Communism is more honest, but you are still a work slave just the same.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Would be surprised if you could find a case of an asylum seeker being sent home anywhere in this god foresaken country of ours. Unfortunately they have "human rights", sod the poor victims and their families.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Funny how the Blair clone who leads you never actually mentioned this when he was giving us a "cast iron promise" on the subject. So if it's a waste of time and money, how about a referendum on the whole question of our membership of the EU? Or do your leaders not have the stomach for that, because they're actually in favour of the EU superstate?

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

They did mention it. They'd been saying it for a long time. I want a referendum on the EU (and I'd vote to be out) :)

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Wynonie, Labour promised a Referendum on the Euro, over 12 years ago.......Still waiting.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

So, you want to leave the EU, but you're a member of a political party that wants to carry on in the EU? Oh well, I suppose it makes sense to you!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Can't say that's very high on my, or I would imagine anyone else's list of priorities. The whole question of EU membership is, though, and will become inceasingly so, as Brussels starts to acquire more and more control over our lives. However, as your lot want to carry with the great EU experiment, it's not in their interests to give the UK electorate a say on the subject. It'll all end in tears, though!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

There isn't a political party that I agree with on every issue. A party system exists for like minded people to come together.. doesn't mean I have to agree on every issue.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

When we have finished of course. Do you have to pay cash up front in Canada? :rolleyes::D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

No it is not. It could be a "Do you want to pull out of Europe" referendum.

At least they would know what the public want then they could ignore us like every other party does.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Well yes it is. You suggest a different referendum which I agree we should have... but I was specifically talking about the Lisbon treaty referendum being a waste of time and money now it's implemented.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

In Canada we have to debate whether payment is a Provincial or Federal responsibility;):D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

The Lisbon treaty one would not be a waste on money either. It would prove if the current Government were wrong to sign it and the Tories (if they get in) could make the required steps to un sign it.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

They can't unsign it without the agreement of the other 26 countries. Previous to it being implemented the current government could quite easily have not signed it which would have prevented it from ever going into force. We can however pull out without the need of an agreement which is why we should have a referendum on EU membership.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

:rofl38: So what you are actually saying is that H.Ms Govt. has its hands tied by the Slovakians and the Slovenians (wonder how many UK voters can find these places on a map) , or maybe the elected Politicians agree that its a good thing that places like Latvia , Lithuania , Estonia and Roumania (places that have had a democratic tradition for less than 10 years) and still have the old communist guard in control can dictate public policy for the UK .

:rofl38: :rofl38:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

or do it the old fashioned way and riot until our govenment gets a set of balls and tells teh EU to screw themselves

dont see why not it worked with teh poll tax :D


you cant speak with a vote any nore it just dosnt work simply because we dont even get one , unelected primeminister , no referendum and our freedom of speech gagged into almost utter silence

now i sound like iv been joining mancie on teh booze lol :eek:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Of course you can speak with a vote ... in 1993 in Canada, the tories were reduced from a maority in parliament to just two seats ... the vote does work if people are po'd enought.:mosher:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Accyman, you may have a point there.....

Wynonie, I have never ever been a member of any Political party and have no intention of doing so. Yes I am a Capitalist so that makes me right wing, but the mess that the country is in, do you really think that it can be allowed to continue?
I don't particularly like Dave, I preferred Hague, but I will not vote for the shower we have in at the moment and I will be exercising my power to vote.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Yes, I suppose a minor issue over whether the UK should remain an independent country or not isn't really worth falling out over. :rolleyes:

Personally, I'm with Accyman on the barricades!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

It seems not, as he's been on a crime spree since the attack, but now it seems he's free from any future prosecution.

Nice work if you can get it.

Perhaps he's secretly become a M.P.

:rolleyes:

'The burglar left 'brain damaged' by a victim used his injuries to escape conviction for a subsequent crime spree, it emerged yesterday.
Walid Salem, 57, first avoided prison for burglary when millionaire Munir Hussain was jailed for beating him with a cricket bat.'

'Yesterday it was revealed the serial criminal was accused of committing more offences after he had recovered.'

'However, he received an absolute discharge for those because he was deemed unfit to plead.'

'The case last night prompted claims that Salem had effectively been given 'a licence to commit crime'.'

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

it looks like this " hes got a problem " has now spread to adults, not only is it kids getting off with crimes because they have "problems" but now adults can claim they have problems and get away with crime :rolleyes:

this crooks brain dammage cant be that bad if its allowing him to carry on with his life of crime

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

oh great now i have somone in agreement i will probably get done for inciting to riot but notto worry i will claim i have brain damage which shoudlnt be too hard to pull off and walk away free :D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Well I thought everybody already knew that accyman:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Father Christmas? Sorry, officer, I thought he was a burglar! | Mail Online
on a lighter note:D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

I have just heard on Granada reports that an immigrant who ran over and killed a 12 year old child in Blackburn without having a licence, will get to remain in the country. A judge overruled his departure on 'human rights' grounds.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

maybe somone shoudl run over these judges who refuse to use common sense

teh police arrest crinminals , build a case only to have a judge with teh IQ of a flea let teh criminal walk away free

seems to me teh law isnt teh problem but the judges

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

It was a "failed asylum seeker" which makes it a damn sight worse IMHO. When is this country going to start sending them back when their appeal is rejected?

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

how about not even giving an appeal , fail and get shipped back instantly

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Thats what I meant soz, I should have said "their application"

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

im thinking of startng my own political party but im a bit short on policies.

if i start with bricking up the channel tunnel i reakon i will be off to a good start although there may be a scandle when it gets out im using polish brick layers :confused:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

......one polish plumber to flood it

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Correct. I did originally intend to write illegal immigrant. Was in a rush!

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Think the title of this thread is totally applicable

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

How low can you go Jaysay?.. quoting Richard Littlejohn?

David Cameron puts a good argument forward that I and many others will agree with. There needs to be more consideration for the real victim who I am sure in all cases is hit by trauma the moment they believe am intruder has broken in.

There is also the issue that burglars feel protected by the law and safe to carry on burgling. This is a dangerous argument as it opens the door to vigilatism.

There needs to be a better balance.

The laws on reasonable force and traumatic defence should be strengthened.

Just to put the facts right on crime. Not that I agree with them but to ou to be some myths.

Over 80,000 locked up, prisons full. Labour has locked up more criminals than any other government.

Labour is the ONLY post war government to crime. By about a third nationwide and by over a third in Hyndburn. Burglaries over the last few years are at all tme lows for example. ASB is 10% what it was in July 2003.

Labour has put bobbies back on the beaT with dedicated neighbourhood policing.

Labour has made the police accountable in law to local residents and in law to local councils.

Labour has made it law that every area has a Community Safety Partnership of all agencies with targets. Local Tories chair it and have been shouting it's success for several years now so it's not just Labour.

David Cameron is not going to reverse any of these.

The Daily Mail has tried and continues to try and win the right wing argument on crime by playing on fear before facts for over a century.

What has happenned in the last 13 years has been what Manu said was impossible, cut crime and cut it consideraby.

Britain is a much safer place but that doesn't sell newspapers does it?

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Why does he hit to many raw nerves Mancie:rolleyes:

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

I certainly don't think the crime figures have gone down in the last thirteen years it just the way they are recorded that gives that impression. For instance in many cases people are being let off with a caution for violent and other crimes by the police. I watched a programme on it the other week and the reporter took various case notes which hadn't been refered to the DPP in most of the cases the DPP said a caution was not adequate and these cases should have gone to court.
Whilst I don't and never will agree with the way this man acted until the law starts tackling these problems in a correct manner vigilante attacks are going to continue and get worse IMHO.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

If you really want to know what happens to the crime figures, then have a look at this site.
The Policeman's Blog

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

The police have a proirity job - revenue collection - keeping the public safe seems secondary to that.

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Like that BG its now one of my favorites :D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Crime has gone down significantly. What has gone up is the reporting of crime. So if the only connection to crime you have is through bottom end media, you will base your opnions on that.

Personally I have always said one route to happiness is to not buy the Express or the Mail. In fact don't watch news or stick to Radio 4 where you get the background Info first before any twisted opinions put forward to maximise corporate profits or a political agenda rather than inform.

Fox News and English Tabloids as good examples.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

NO NO NO NO you cant ask us to stop reading our comics!!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek: Where on earth will we get our laughs from?

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Graham, I am more a Sunday TImes and Private Eye man myself.

When I was a child, 30 odd years ago, I used to see bobbies on the beat all the time. I even knew my village bobby and he knew me and all the other kids.
These days you only see them when they have a crackdown on crime.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Oh come on Graham your starting to believe your own hype, its not so much how its reported but the way its recorded that's suss;)

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

Something in a newspaper having more to it than face value? Well I never... :D

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

It is in the interests of the media to hype up anything that will make you fearful.
They are told to do that by governments, who then reduce your civil liberties by introducing 'restrictions of freedom laws' on the grounds of 'your safety'.

Then there is revenue from fines when those laws are broken.

Re: This sums up our justice system to the full
 

If I didn't know you better Margaret, I'd think you were a sceptic:D