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Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but...
... I went to mass tonight and the alter boys were mostly female. And they were referred to as 'helpers' or something. Now, perhaps I'm being too old fashioned but it made me feel a bit disappointed, especially when the priest said that the number of priests was rapidly declining as well. I really don't want to see female priests, because it just isn't right.
What are your views on this? I'm guessing that a lot of people who aren't catholic will wonder what my problem is and disagree with me, but even catholics are bound to disagree on the issue I should imagine. Now in all honesty, I can't give a real justification for why I feel this way, perhaps it is just because that is the way it has always been and I just don't think these roles are for women. But something has to still be said for traditional ways of doing things, in my opinion. |
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You don't like the idea of female priests, but I bet you have no problem with female MP's, female Prime Ministers or Presidents.. or any other profession that actually make laws for the human race..so you are correct..you have no justification in your post.
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its all this political correctness, equal rights and all that
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Nowt wrong with a bit of religious totty for us blokes.....................(the priests that is:rolleyes:)
Merry Christmas everyone |
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It is not a case of tradition. It is a case of doing what God wants. I could quote the relevant scriptures but I have an xbox to set up. |
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The Roman Catholic church was still some years off being founded, and the Romans were too busy at the time of Jesus persecuting and sentencing to death those they opposed. All the Catholic traditions came many centuries after the death of Jesus. Priests, and even Popes, were at one time allowed to marry, and father children, until it was decided the church would become richer if priests left no heirs to inherit their worldly possessions. Perhaps they should look again at their post Jesus traditions, and allow priests to marry, or even be female. Perhaps it might deter some people from using the church as a cover for their evil wickedness. BBC News - Two more Catholic bishops resign |
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Yes I'm sure there are some people who think the Bible should be taken quite literally, stoning to death adulterers etc etc. All I'm saying that the traditions of most Christian churches came about many centuries after the death of Jesus, and besides the Eucharist, he gave little instructions as to how the Christian church should be run.
Though he did make it clear about the chuch not being used to provide commercial wealth, by turning over the tables in the temple, and the rich man/camel/eye of a needle quote, mentioned in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Something some churches seem to have disregarded. |
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Well I'm a Red Neck and an ex alter BOY but I don't have a problem with Girl alter servers or priests for that matter. One thing I think the Catholic Church will have to relent to is allowing priests to marry. As blazey said Father John said the very few priests are being ordained I think only 3 in the Salford diocese this year, we have already seen Sacred Heart close and there is talk of a total reorganisation of the RC church in Hyndburn with maybe only 2 Churches being left to cater for everybody. Doesn't seem that long ago when there were 4 Sunday masses 8am 9am 10am and sung mass at 11am plus 6-30 on Saturday at every church
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Churches have evolved over the years.....and the evolution reflects the changes in society.
Now many people live their lives without being touched by organised religion, and religion is looking for ways to attract back to its fold, the populace. Maybe it is as a result of that, that there are female servers in the catholic church. I really don't have any feelings about it either way. |
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In most cases religion is sexist, hypocritical, self serving, dictatorial, greedy, self serving. political meddlers, arrogant and so out of touch they might as well be on Mars. That's just a few things .
By not allowing priests to marry any worldly goods end up with the church making it richer. The churches have evolved but not fast enough to keep up with modern ways. The hiding behind the church when up to serious criminal acts then covered for shows the disregard that the church has for the law. Do as I say not as I do should be their motto. |
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Historically, churches were male dominated and many still are.....and as for the evolution angle, well, it has always been a slow process because of the desire to cling onto traditions and in some cases hindered by adherence to religious tenets.
However much you dislike religion and for whatever reasons, there will always be those who will gain comfort and support from religion, and also from the rules and guidelines that these religions promote. Faith can be a great uplifter to some, and a beacon to others........it is purely personal choice. Live and let live. |
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Girl alter servers can only be a good thing,less chance of being interferred with.:eek:
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I guess that is one way of looking at it.
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You youngsters just don't know how to enjoy yourselves! ;) |
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and that, Wynonie, just illustrates why there are few altar BOYS....they were all out last night emulating their fathers and forefathers......getting 'popped up'......then patched up, and possibly locked up...until they sobered up :D
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I guess it was just the shock of seeing it. I'm not really the biggest fan of modernising the church. And I don't have a problem with women in most other roles, but I see very little point in reasoning with things in that way all the time. Different jobs have different requirements. Another job role that I have a strong opinion of is teaching, in that I think life experience should be a requirement of the job instead of lots of graduates doing their PGCE because they can't get any other job and think it's an easy way of getting into a career. Obviously some young people have always wanted to be teachers, but in my experience it is always the older teachers who have been in other professions prior to qualifying which have had the best effect on me. Again, another thing that people will differ in opinions on. Also, out of interest, if the catholic church was to allow female priests, how would we address them? Obviously 'Father' isn't quite fitting and I can't imagine calling them 'Mothers', and I'd be really disappointed if we started using the term 'vicar'... Anyway, another point that was raised was money. Whilst the Catholic church may generally be wealthy, most local churches around here don't have much money and are often cold, draughty and in need of some TLC. I think the use of girls was more a case of a lack of boys wanting to do it and desperation to find the help, rather than trying to look more attractive to people to gain money. That's just my opinion anyway. Merry Christmas everyone. I'm going to go back downstairs before I get shouted at for being unsociable. |
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merry christmas blaze hope ya have a great un, i don't like idea of callin em vicars:eek: jurys out wi me about women priests:confused: but what i said about altar girls to me is very sad, but more than a grain of truth in it.:(
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I made a point of not putting any money in the retiring collection but that is for personal reasons to do with that particular Church. Anywhere else and I would have done. I try to respect other peoples religious views, I know it might be hard for you to think I would but I do :rolleyes: |
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I keep copies of this behind the front door and hand them to Jehova's witnesses and other religious fanatics when they ring the bell.
I haven't had any callers this past year. Retlaw |
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maybe you are an old fashioned Catholic..like burning protesters, banishing the poor from the church because they are skint, outlawing the use of contriception at a time when AID'S is prevelant,,yet you moan about women priest's!
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its about time all church schools were abolished and everyone treated the same reagrdless if they believe in god or not anyway now isnt the time to be talking about religion its prezzi day :D:D:D |
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Have you been a leftfooter for awhile, Blazey? Not one of these passing phases is it, like your previous infatuation with the Tory party?
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Some people need religion, if it helps them survive I can see it has its uses.
I am just glad that I can get by without it - self sufficiency is a more satisfying mode of survival. |
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Fantastic Wyn, that really cracked me up, Laughing all the way in a one horse open sliegh, your first post that is.
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It probably cost a lot of money, attiring all these new female altar servers.
Just as it would if they decided to modernise, and have female priests. Hang on, it wouldn't actually. All those frocks are unisex. |
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Sod that, it's Christmas, not a BBC2 discussion programme....now where's the Alka-Seltzer? ;) |
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If you mean have I been a churchgoer for a while, the answer is that I don't often go to church any more. I went to both St Mary's and Mount Carmel, though I didn't go to St Mary's College so that I could get away from the people from school, and I was in the choir throughout both schools even though I was the only person in my year in the choir at Mount Carmel. I've always been close to my faith though. I don't attend the service at uni because I have other commitments and I don't particularly like worshipping in a building that isn't purpose built for catholic worship, but I'm a member of the Christian Union and attend lunch bars every week where there is a different hour-long discussion about some form of issue. I don't always agree with what is said and most christians at them tend to be evangelical christians, but they're good to go to and the people are nice enough. Anyway, I have found it helps more the older I get, and I enjoy it. |
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Didn't ask for your life story...I was just curious about whether this was one of your little fads that you seem to have from time to time. As for Left Footer, it's a colloquialism for RCs.
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I am an atheist, I was brought up C of E, that was bad enough, My 'Lapsed' Catholic friends think I got away with it lightly.
I personally think, what the heck, a child starts questioning what they have been taught by rote, do they deserve to be punished or should the teacher be honest? I will always go with honesty, it is a subject that leaves us all with doubt's, life starts getting you down or nature throws a wobbly, we all sort of hope there is a God, a blessed parent better even than the parents we know, 'Our' parents looked after us, they helped us survive until this particular crisis. They did it naturally, their religion has to come second, unfortunately we get impressed by their beliefs, some are good some are bad. If you wish to turn up to a midnight Mass and enjoy it with other people of similar Ilk, why should it matter if the 'Alter Boy', is a girl, or that the Priest/Vicar is Married or even gay? So long as you get a benefit from it & you aren't forcing it on others by saying, "This is the way it has to be done. Everyone should be able to live together. Tell me a Jew or a Muslim or someone of a similar faith to yourselves is wrong then obviously, you are wrong not them, live with what you find content, but don't tell others how to live their lives, (they just might be there when you need a helping hand). |
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So do not try being clever, it's boring. Almost as boring as talking on censored forums. I'd love to add a bit of profanity in there, just to keep in the spirit of being a northern working class lass that is. |
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And Less, it isn't about not getting along with women, gay men or married priests, it is about traditional values and customs. I just don't like the changes. Muslims wouldn't stand for it, Jews wouldn't stand for it. I didn't walk out of church in disgust, but I was just unimpressed by it, that's all.
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I'm a strong believer in biblical traditions.
It's ridiculous that women now expect an education. Their place is in the home, by the hearth, for the Bible tells us so. |
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'But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.' Matthew, chapter 5, verse 39. |
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A woman tied to a ducking stool for nagging her husband or being 'cast out' for adultery or having an illegitimate child, yes, lets stick to the 'Traditional Values', how much better must men's lives have been in the so called good old days, when women knew their place and the consequences of having a mind her own and using it! Often these things amongst many others were carried out with the full approval of the 'Christian', (Ha, please don't make me laugh), Church. Jews & Muslims? I think they are more agreeable to change than many with those easy to slip Christian values. Tolerance & change can only be better for any religion than blind faith and tradition, embrace the goodness of your faith but don't tolerate the shortcomings forced on you by mere mortal beings. their rules are often hiding a very selfish reason to force others to tow a very unchristian line. Oh by the way woman, (yes Blazey I mean you), my dishes need washing and there's a pile of clothes need ironing stop wasting tax payers money on your education and start doing what God put you on earth for, to be an unpaid slave to the superior race called men! |
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Dont be to hard on Wynonie, Blazey, He's a great bloke really, just likes to stir you up, just like Cashy & Jaysay.
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Still, I enjoyed your post. Karma sent. :) |
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I for your topless idea - same ish answer I think - only a few of them :rolleyes::D:D |
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So I think from the answers she has received, we can all assume Blazey has put Women's Lib back about 40 years, well done girl, about time we had a female with sense on this site.
Oh, by the way ignore the pile of ironing, just relax and peel me a grape that's a good modern Girl. |
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I'm a traditionalist, in that I believe the lame shouldn't receieve any medical treatment, but should wait patiently for a passing worker of miracles to solve what ails them.
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Quite frankly, at least if I HAD crossed the line to be considered middle class then that could only be seen as an achievement for all young people in this area. I didn't get to University by going to a grammar school or even with decent A levels, I got in through determination and personality, which I think there is a great lack of these days. You're either middle class and daddy helps you or you are working class and resign yourself to a life at Asda and just give up.
You won't find me sat in a Starbucks in the city or in a wine bar somewhere though. No, I'll just sit in the pub with my pint and complain about the same things you lot do. You just keep telling yourself that I'm middle class. It just so happens that the youth of the working class ARE revolting against the educational norms and actually making something of themselves. Please forgive me if I don't just want to lie down and die. |
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I've not had the best of days today, Blazey, but your post has just cheered me up. How do you manage to consistently write such unintentionally hilarious posts? They really should be published in Private Eye ("A Student Writes...."?) or perhaps as a successor to "Student Grant" in Viz.
If I didn't have to spread it around, I'd send you some more karma. Just imagine...you actually sit in real pubs...and drink real pints...and complain about the same things that us 'umble folk do. How terribly, terribly proletariat. Priceless...absolutely priceless. :rofl38: |
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Like a young Gracie Fields, she's kicked off her clogs, thrown her shawl in t' gutter outside o' t'mill, and marched off, bushy tailed and starry-eyed, for fun and frolicks on t' jewel o' Lancashire coast.
I don't know about class, but it's priceless. |
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Prior to 1870, with the founding of Girton College, traditionally universities were all male environments, with women only being used at the very bottom of the servant chain, in the laundries for example.
It seems sad that so many of our lovely old traditions are being cruelly thrown on history's scrap heap, all in the name of so called progress. |
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perhaps the priests at your church like girls rather than little boys
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That's not a very traditional concept. |
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I think maybe some people have got the old testament mixed up with with the Christian testament...The "old" bible is a Jewish religion.. Christ was not even born..the new testament was introduced and founded by the Romans in the fourth century.
I can't say I've read the either bible in full but I don't recall anything that says bicthes n ho's can't be preists or nowt like that |
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sorry for wander :hidewall: |
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Oh Blazey, you have got to meet the boys in the Oakleigh for a pint then on to the Clayton end, its a very elite club. You wont be disapointed, they'll look after you. It would be a great day out.
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She's welcome anytime. We could even send her for the brews at half-time! ;)
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He has a personal exemption along with all the other poor sods that when havin a brew n burger get kicked out the back. :( |
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If you roll your own (no poisons added) there are some health benefits
Nicotine Benefits There are always two sides to every argument, and both have value. I don't like the way that the opinions of some are forced on us all. ...personal choice is a freedom we need to defend |
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The elite clubs usually invite me along. Sorry I wasn't at the Railway yesterday boys and many happy returns to Benipete. I wasn't feeling particularly well so decided to have a lie in.
See you all soon xx |
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