The Law Is An Ass.
 

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/news..._at_intruders: really annoyed at the treatment of victims. what are people supposed to do? like the guy who went out to some down warrington way, unharmed n ended up dead.:mad: woman was probably crapping herself yet she's in the wrong? the worlds gone nuts.:mad:

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Can't get the link to work cashy...just keeps throwing up an error code :(

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Think this is the story Cashy was trying to post...

Myleene Klass warned by police after waving 'illegal' kitchen knife at intruders in her garden | Mail Online

Yet another example of the way that the authorities are totally out of touch with ordinary people in this country.

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Celebrity mum Myleene Klass is "aghast" after being warned by police for waving a knife at teenagers who entered her garden.

The TV star and Marks & Spencer model was in her kitchen, with her daughter upstairs, when she spotted people peering into her window just after midnight on Friday.

She grabbed a knife and banged the windows before they ran away.

Hertfordshire Police officers warned Klass she should not have used a knife to scare off the teens because carrying an "offensive weapon" - even in her own home - was illegal.

Klass told Sky News in a statement: "My family are totally fine and I thank the police for being so re-assuring and comforting.

"However, I was left shocked and surprised to be told that a private individual in the privacy of their own home runs the risk of committing a criminal offence if, out of fear for their own safety and their loved ones, they grab something with which they could defend themselves if an intruder enters their home.

"I totally respect British law - but surely everyone has the right to self-defence in their own home if they are in danger?"

Her spokesman Jonathan Shalit said the former Hearsay singer was "utterly terrified" and was stepping up security at the property near Potters Bar.

He told the Sunday Telegraph: "Myleene was aghast when she was told that the law did not allow her to defend herself at home.

"All she did was scream loudly and wave the knife to try and frighten them off."

Klass' fiance Graham Quinn was away on business at the time of the scare.

It came amid calls for greater rights for people to defend themselves against intruders on their property.

In December, Munir Hussain was jailed for attacking a man who tied up his family in their home. He and his brother used a cricket bat to beat one of the intruders. -- copied it then,

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Its about time some polititian made the law perfectly clear on the subject to all so we can understand whats what.

I think the fuzz are scared of challenging these feral youths, and were abusing their authority in telling her she can't arm herself in her own home.

Jack Straw or Lying Brown should state clearly that we can defend our selfs, without all the iffy shades of meaning & intent, and put the fuzz back to the job they were intended to do when they were known as Peelers.

Retlaw.

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It does beg the question, 'what are we actually supposed to do?' If someone was trying to break into the house are we supposed to go and hide under the bed and let them?

I think she showed initiative and managed to scare them off before anyone (even the thugs) came to any harm. Surely that should be commended.

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Thats the whole point to me Gayle, summat our inept leaders don't seem to have any concept of.:rolleyes:

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Quote from Lord Goldsmith, the Attorney General: "We must protect victims and law-abiding citizens, but we have to recognise that others have some rights as well. They don't lose all rights because they're engaged in criminal conduct."

So there you are...burglars, thugs and other lowlife scum have rights, when they're breaking into your home and terrorising your family. So don't expect any support from the authorities in this country. :mad:

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No doubt some one will remind Lord Goldsmith if ever he is accosted in his own home:rolleyes:

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Would imagine he has plenty of official protection...paid for by us! :rolleyes:

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If someone chooses to mug, burgle, vandalise or harm another person, to me they should lose all rights.

If we're warned of something that is against health and safety regulations i.e. riding on a roller coaster that is deemed dangerous or something like that, but still choose to do it, it is our fault for doing it. The same should apply to other unlawful or stupid activity.

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Words of common sense that 99% of the population would agree with. Sadly, the other 1% are those who devise and adminster our criminal justice system. :rolleyes:

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as far as i am aware there is nothing illigal about waving a knife around in your own home and if someone happens to be stood in your garden tresspassing looking in at you waving a knife around its their own damn fault for been there

the police officer that made teh decision to give a warning to the lass shoudl be repremanded for wasting police time and have to retake whatever exam it is you take to become a police officer

as far as im concerned once somone is trespassing on your property especially if inside your property then their ass is grass and anything goes because you just dont know what they have in mind and how far they are preppared to go to get what they want,i would rather see an intruder dead on the floor than any member of my family hurt

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it is no wonder that feral youths, thugs and criminals laugh at the law......it seems to d far more to protect their rights than the rights of law abiding citizens........and like Gayle, I believe that if you indulge in unlawful behaviour/activities, then you forfeit any rights you might otherwise have had.

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Can you still do the Green Cross Code exam?

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As everyone can see from my avatar Mac is a rather ferocious dog, so I have a large chain lead which I carry when I take him out for his walks, it belonged to my staffie so why buy a new one, I thought........was talking to a Police Officer last year and I happened to mention that I felt safer carrying the lead as I could use it if I was ever threatened whilst walking the dog. I was told in no uncertain terms I could be in serious trouble if I ever used it to defend myself as it would be classed as an offensive weapon, so where do I go from there? Maybe if I buy a nice new fabric one I would be ok, and so would the thugs who roam around looking for people to have a go at......Naw, think I'll stick to the chain one and use it if needed.

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I used to fence (epees, not wooden stakes) and not unsurprisingly i was told that carrying the sword had to be done in a certain way or it would be classed as an offensive weapon. Obviously, i can agree with that, BUT if I had been attacked whilst carrying one I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have discarded it and let a mugger get on with it, I would have used it myself.

One of the reasons they say women shouldn't use any weapons as protection is because the chances are they would be overpowered and the weapon used against them.

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This is one of my pet peeves at the moment.

the law states you can use "reasonable" force to protect and defend yourself, but the test of reasonableness can vary so much. Its as if you are meant to guess how far a burglar will go to defend himself and then act appropriately ??? .

I believe the best weapons of defence arent knives etc because you have to be close to threaten to use it and then they can wrestle them away from you. A long stick or yardbrush would be better if one is handy.

However I think that until it happens to you, you have no idea of how you will react, and that under stress like that, anything you have to hand which increases your confidence to defend yourself becomes fair game.

If its men burglars go for the soft dangly bits as it were rather than the head....My legal defence would be that I considered a "reasonable" person would incapacitate the burglar to protect myself until the police arrived, and those areas would stop him from injuring us without long term damage (if you hit him in the head this is when they are more likely to look for compensation)

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I think I knew your brother Freddie the Fence.

Is it true that he died when he fell off the back of a wagon?

Start the car.

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no he sulked when he got sacked from teh darth vader role and never worked again but i believe tufty is coming out of retirement :)

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I know the bread well LYNX, you don't mess with white lightning, after the initial barking episode they then attack and give any intruder a vicious lick:D

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Ya like the judges who are driven from home to court and home again in their Roller's, just to ensure they don't come across the real world the rest of us live in, i.e. where the criminal has more rights than the victim:(

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If she isn't allowed to wave a knife about in her own home, when people are on her property, she should install a system that plays 'Pure and Simple' at mega volume, to scare 'em off.

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so every time you peel a potato you are breaking the law if somone is in your line of view ?

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If your peeling it with intent accyman:rolleyes:

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I suppose if you're making chips you will be regarded as a crazed axeman.

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And if your in the kitchen making a brew and you bang on the widow with a spoon, you will be accused of stirring it.
Penalty six months watching the repeat of episode I of coronation St, over and over again.

Retlaw.

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The police got this wrong. The law on offensive weapons (Prevention of Crime Act 1953) only applies to "public places". Munir Hussain was convicted by a jury of inflicting grievous bodily harm on the basis that he had wreaked revenge on those who had attacked his family - the law of the vigilante.

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My personal point of view, once you've crossed the threshold of my premises without my consent and with the intent of doing something illegal, your rights have gone out the window, and as for reasonable force I'll decide what's reasonable in protecting my family. The police and courts can go screw themselves I'll take my chances with a sensible Judge and the Public outcry, saying they deserved it !

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AMEN to that dave.;)

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Speaking from personal experience, you can defend yourself in your own home, you can strike first if you feel that you are about to be assaulted too.

And you can pick something up and use it.. although using a knife may be going too far.

Much better to have something like a baseball bat handy. :D

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this story dosnt reflect well on teh head of scotland yard when he went on national tv on the trevor mcdonald show and said it is perectly acceptable to fend off an intruder and even go as far as causing an intruder to die

iv mentioned this before where they ran various made up senarios where a home owner clubbed an intruder from behind ,stabbed and intruder from behind and a couple of other examples i cant recall where each time the intruder was killed or severely hurt and the head of scotland yard said there was no problem with any of the examples and that the home owner would at the most be interviewed down teh station and released after making a statment

they did run examples where the home owner chased down the intruder and killed him in the street and this was deemed unacceptable as there was no fear for life or well being any more

so basically in my opinion laws need to be set out in black and white where as if an intruder is in your home the home owner can do what the hell they like to rid themselves of the intruder

we have laws that are cut black and white like when there is an accident in a car the car infront is not to blame and teh person behind is automaticly at fault so why cant laws be set in black and white for people to protect their homes and themsleves and family members

burgulars can enter your home armed to teh teeth but as soon as you defend yourself your in trouble

its a disgrace to say the least and if america can get this right it sure dosnt say much for us when we cant

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That's an oxymoron Dave sensible and Judge in the same sentence:rolleyes:

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Ya with 6 inch nails sticking out of the thick end:D

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See your point Jaysay, how about - a right thinking judge with some nads who'll stand up for the decent folk.

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what we need are judges who have lived amongst the scum that stands before them and not been fed with a silver spoon and sheltered from teh real world

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Then this must apply to all those politicians caught cheating on their expenses:eek::D

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Good points ... but I think the bottom line is, if there is an armed intruder in your home, or an intruder you believe might be armed, do what you have to do and worry about the law later .... and as you reach for Mr. Winchester, remember: it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six:mosher:

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So knocking would be a good idea at yours then !!! :rolleyes:

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Sure ... and bring a six pack, and a treat for the Rottie who takes care of business while I'm out.;):D

But, it's not as if we live in fear of criminals breaking into our homes here. Kingston is a peaceful little city with excellent police service from the Kingston Police and the OPP .... there is also a detachment of Mounties here. However, if, in the event of someone breaking into my home, I choose to defend myself and my property, I would not feel bound to check the law before acting in what I consider to be my best interests. Which does not, of course, extend to chasing someone down the street jamming magnums into my twelve gauge so that I can blow his legs out from under him. You never know, I might miss (unlikely) and hit an innocent squirrel.;)

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HOW COOL IS THAT !! a Pizza eating, beer drinking , Gun slingin' Rottie !!! :D:D

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That is then an offensive weapon as its only use can be for being prepared to assault/injure someone and you will be prosecuted, however if you happen to have baseball bat AND ball handy, they have a completely innocent use and you are less likely to. ;)

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Where can I buy a used baseball from :rolleyes::D

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Sorry Dave that species don't exist:(

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Even if they did n i have little faith in em, the Tariffs they can give are greatly reduced in many cases, thanks to the do-gooders n useless politicians, so the blame is not soley wi them.IMHO.:(

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But a baseball bat with nails in is very handy if you have problems with mice:rolleyes:;)

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Saw a woman carrying a couple of ski poles, with metal spikes on the end - seemed a good burglar deterrant to me.

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Nah, they are too light weight.

Get yourself a nice brass poker set :D

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Seems that endangered species list is pretty unforgiving then.

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Jake loves pizza, and likes to share a beer with me ... but he has a problem with guns .... it's a thumb thing;):D

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You'll just have to teach your Rottie how to shoot Eric, after all, according to an adds campaign running in GB at the moment Arthur Bell, after perfecting his whisky, taught his dog to play the bagpipes:D

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Wasp Spray
A friend who is a receptionist in a church in a high risk area was
concerned about someone coming into the office on Monday to rob them
when they were counting the collection. She asked the local police
department about using pepper spray and they recommended to her that
she get a can of wasp spray instead.


The wasp spray, they told her, can shoot up to twenty feet away and is
a lot more accurate, while with the pepper
spray, they have to get too close to you and could overpower you. The
wasp spray temporarily blinds an attacker until they get to the
hospital for an antidote. She keeps a can on her desk in the office
and it doesn't attract attention from people like a can of pepper
spray would. She also keeps one nearby at home for home protection.
Thought this was interesting and might be of use.


On the heels of a break in and beating that left an elderly woman in
Toledo dead, self defense experts have a tip that could save
your life.


Val Glinka teaches self-defense to students at
Sylvania Southview High School.. For decades, he's suggested putting a
can of wasp and hornet spray near your door or bed.


Glinka says, "This is better than anything I can teach them."


Glinka considers it inexpensive, easy to find, and more effective than
mace or pepper spray. The cans typically shoot 20 to 30 feet; so
if someone tries to break into your home, Glinka says "spray the
culprit in the eyes". It's a tip he's given to students for
decades.


It's also one he wants everyone to hear. If you're looking for
protection, Glinka says look to the spray.


"That's going to give you a chance to call the police; maybe get
out."


Maybe even save a life.


Just got this in an e-mail........not a bad idea.

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And if it does not work you can hit them with the tin :D

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But knowing our justice system the plod would probably charge you with GBH, as the poor thief has rights:rolleyes:

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More likely to get away with it than pepper spray. You just say the wasp spray is always there as you are scared of wasps :D

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the way our justice system works using it on wasps may carry a murder charge :rolleyes:

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It is a good suggestion though.

I have a can of wasp spray under the sink.

Methinks it might just be moved :D

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wait till summer and spray a wasp till its dead. Then store it under your bed next to the spray. After Mr burglar is sprayed, stick the dead wasp up his nose and claim he had a wasp on his face and you were concerned for his wellbeing and tried to prevent it from stinging him.

Ot get a fake one like a kids toy, then place it on him after he has been sprayed. In the middle of the night how could you tell it was your kids fake one rather than a real one, so you`d better be safe than sorry

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much simpler to kill the burgular , not report it to teh police and hide teh body under the patio.

i doubt they will have left information on where they are going to be with anyone :D

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Buddy of mine, a couple of years ago, heard noises outside his house ... the motion sensor lights were on ... and he could hear someone trying the door. He phoned 911, and told the dispatcher what was going on. He told them to hurry, because he was loading; and if they weren't there quick there would be a body to pick up. The cruiser was there before he could finish loading and get downstairs.:theband: The cops took the perp away .... they checked that he had an FAC (Firearms Acquisition Certificate); checked that his firearms and ammunition storage conformed to the law; and went on their merry way.

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According to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the bagpipes constitute "cruel and unusual punishment.";):D

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If that had been this country Eric the police would have let the perp go then arrested the home owner for making a threat to the life:rolleyes:

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agree but do ya honestly think "ANY" of the main parties will do owt about it.?

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No:)

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Good man, that n many other things none will correct is the sole reason i washed me hands of em.

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Well let him try anyway & if he can't manage to play them he could always H**p em' !! Don't think Jake will find them cruel & unusual punishment ! :D !

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You have all chosen to ignore this information by Balbus, who is well qualified to point this out.

This is also informative too :

Householders and the use of force against intruders

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not a question of ignoring balbus, the thread is about the treatment of a woman alone at home wi her kids n therefore in my eyes the law is n ass.:rolleyes:

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its a pitty the police dont read this because it does seem that ringing the police usually ends up with teh victim been arrested or cautioned, if teh police want to install trust into teh public they need to start earning it and arrsting teh correct people

a woman alone in the house with kids facing an intruder is way up on my list of feeling threatened situations and to put it frankly the intruder should think hiself lucky the knife didnt end up inside him rather than cry to the police about been threatened by a woman with a knife behind a glass window alone with her kids

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Yes, not ignoring the article, unlike the police.

They arrest you all first and then decide afterwards if they are going to let you go.

They have little choice.

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But that was the point Cashman, the police were wrong; not the law.

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But the Police enforce the Law, or so we were led to believe !!

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as far as i'm aware the job of a policeman is to uphold the law, therefore making the policeman the laws representive, ya can skirt around that fact all ya want, i will stick with my statement.:rolleyes:

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Of course they do Dave .... but they are just the 'soldiers' behind the law (you will understand this no doubt) .. when it gets to the law courts 'tis a different matter.

Not all police officers can expect to be graduates in this difficult area, and can make mistakes in their interpretion of such, which is addressed when a case gets to court ... the next step in protecting and educating our back up services (the police) in what I consider, the best justice system in the world.

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if they can train monkeys to brew up, why can they not train the police to follow the law?:rolleyes:

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Perhaps you had best switch to Typhoo Cashy, and leave the PG Tips alone ... :D:D:D

Attachment 15469

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Its a poor do if the police don't know the law they are enforcing kate:rolleyes:

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i can see that.........you can see that....kate needs to borrow me glasses.:D

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You hum it I'll play it kate:D:D:D

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Aye Katex I can understand following orders, but the modern Soldier/Policeman now has more leeway to think for themselves, long gone are the days of Generals shouting "Over the top Lads" and the troops blindly going. The Soldier/Policeman should asses friendly/enemy assets,then respond accordingly in the way most possible to complete the mission. The Lass was in her house behind closed doors & she waved a knife, the Idiots who she felt threatened by left, there it should have ended, the Police come round find out the details and just mention in passing to her that she shouldn't really do that in future, so there was no need for a warning and for the event to cause such a furore, a little bit of common sense from the Copper instead of stating Book & Verse.

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I agree with your sentiments Dave, if only the police would treat crims with the same disdain as they treat victims the country would be a better place

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I think it'll take a hell of a lot more than just straightening the law & order situation in the Country to make it a better place Jaysay.

But it's a good place to start though.

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Its just been on the news that Munir Hussain has been freed on appeal, and his sentence as been replace with a two year suspended sentence

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Good that has happened but still wrong that he has a criminal record for protecting his family.

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The jury ("12 good men and women and true"), who had heard all the evidence (unlike anyone on this forum) found beyond reasonable doubt that he was no longer protecting his family, but wreaking revenge, and convicted him of inflicting grievous bodily harm with intent (maximum life imprisonment).

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If somebody had threatened my family I think I'd have wanted revenge, because going by the rules set out by our criminal justice system these scumbags never get their just desserts, there is more concern for the criminals rights than the victim

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thats what really makes me puke, more concern fer the scum that perpatrated the original offence, some need to wake up n smell the coffee.:rolleyes::(

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OK, so he was out getting revenge, the jury have obviously understood that & done him for GBH. That still doesn't deter from the fact that he "has got away with it" because as you stated he could've been put in nick ! He isn't, so maybe common sense (from judge & Jury) and a feeling of enough is enough about these creatures literally getting away with murder in some cases. A decision was made he's been slapped on the wrists & told not to do it again, seems fair enough to me as this usually happens but to the benefit of the lowlifes(Boot on other foot this time). At last.

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Sorry but I have more sympathy for the mother who "killed" her catatonic/comatose son with the "hot shot" who got 9 yrs than the guy with the cricket bat outside of his home/garden space .
OK I know completly different cases , but don't think she should be doing time

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I thought his family's statement, read outside the court, was very good.

They wished the 'victim' well, and said they were happy his 'brain damage' hadn't prevented his on going criminal career from flourishing.

How they kept a straight face, was probably down to the fact that it's sadly not very funny, that this man now seems to have offical immunity to carry out violent crimes.

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That's a hard one.

I do have great sympathy with the woman.

I just hope my mum doesn't shoot me full of smack, because my quality of life isn't quite what it was.

:rolleyes::D

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which one Rindi Mr Hussein or his victim:rolleyes:

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Surely if he's classed as criminally violent, he should be getting locked away somewhere or other, and you mentioned about brain damage then surely he should end up in Moss side Hosp/Broadmoor then ? I can't really say as I haven't seen the reports.

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why cant we have someone in charge who lives in the real world????? i'd happily let anyone defend their house and family!

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I don't know about letting them defend their house and family, they should be able to do that by right