Homeopathy Sceptics
 

BBC News - Sceptics stage homeopathy 'overdose' to discredit drugs


Homeopathy sceptics have staged a mass "overdose" of homeopathic remedies, in a bid to prove they have no effect. Protesters ate whole bottles of tablets at branches of Boots in places such as Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow, London, Leicester, Edinburgh and Birmingham.


But why .. if some people prefer to use homeopathic remedies rather than traditional medicine then let them.

But why protest outside boots because theyre selling them .. its not just boots that sell homeopathic remedies .. superdrug does, any chemist does, even holland and barratt do ... so why pick on boots ..

Anyway the protesters took an 'overdose' of some homeopathic remedies .. god knows what but still took an overdose .. thing is what would have happened if there was a reaction .. they'd have had to go to hospital for a stomach pump or whatever ..

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nowt wrong wi protesting, but not fer summat stupid:( to me its a case of whatever does a person good, fine by me. seems to n epidemic of knobheads these days.:rolleyes:

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Imagine if they had all keeled over because they took too many. Mind you what the hell are the after effects going to be?

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Jen they were trying to prove that there is no active ingredient in the remedies......there fore taking an overdose would do them no harm whatsoever.
The principle that these sceptics fail to realise is that the body will only use what is useful to it.
Homeopathy works, and not because it has a placebo effect(it works on babies and animals who don't experience the placebo effect because they cannot comprehend it)...it works because it is tailored to the individual, and because every single individual is unique, the results cannot be replicated in someone else.......that is why scientists do not accept its efficacy.

it won't cure cancer, and if you have a condition that requires surgical intervention, then it won't alter the need for that, but it can and does cure common conditions.

A homeopath will take a very detailed history before working out the appropriate remedy.

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I would be really interested to find out if any of them had any ill effects from this publicity stunt.

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I suppose the two obvious results would split the protesters in half, Those that Don't care & those that can't do anything else.

"Hey Elsie I'll swap you 60 of my green tablets for 40 of your blue tablets & a toilet roll, let's hope they have a reversing effect for both of us!"

;)

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i hope one of the natural remedies they tried was liqurice their next protest will be a sit down one for sure :D

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Rubbish. This stuff is total quackery. It's no more than a branch of Witchcraft and Voodoo and the sooner we outlaw this the better. I guess if we were to allow this to continue, then it won't be long before we start importing african children to be sacrificed on some alter (along with an Accy ASDA chicken) so we can drink their combined blood in the forlorn hope of averting the next bout of winter swine flu.

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i recall somone once saying that mankind tried all teh herbs and teh ones that worked they called medicine and the ones that didnt alternative medicine lol

mind you if somone wants to try and cure their cancer with a daffodill then leave them to it, its a free world

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I can't see a problem with using homepathy medicines myself, can we all be so very sure that conventional remedies work? I don't think any of us would be so naive as to think that certain diseases can be cured just by using homepathy but maybe just maybe used in the early stages it can be a help in preventing these life threating conditions progressing to far.
I ain't no specialist in this subject but will not knock any new form of research, who are we to say it doesn't work?????

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i have no doubt that some alternative medicines help relieve symptoms and in some cases are beneficial if not physicaly then mentaly to users but i think its getting on dodgy ground when people start self diagnosing themsleves using google and rushing out to the nearest homiopathic shop instead af a doctor.

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I'm surprised our local witch ;) (absolutly nothing wrong with being an adherant of alternative spirituality or medicine , each to their own) hasn't entered into the thread , but i'm thinking she's not being baited by the local "vox populi " . Not really into alternative medicines or therapies (including 12 step mumbo jumbo) :D but each to their own ,

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I wonder if the money that homeopathy makes money the same way that the traditional drugs companies do?

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Tealeaf, you are talking out of you nether end again......stop eating mushy peas.

Don't you think the pharmaceutical companies make lots of money on medicines that cause side effects that require yet another product to control them? And they run laughing all the way to the bank.

anyone who has looked into homeopathy will realise that it works because the remedy is tailored to your own individual needs.....it isn't a one size fits all medication.

Do you, who slate alternative therapies, realise that most of the medications currently on the market were trialled on MEN........and then it was assumed that women would benefit from the same drugs......all this despite medical science recognising that womens bodies and physiology is very different....? and now it is being recogniised that some medications tested on men, will have adverse, or less than the best therapuetic effects on women.

Still that won't worry you Tealeaf, because you seem to have little regard for the fairer sex.

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and the answer to your question Spuggie, is No it doesn't.
Remedies are relatively cheap, it is the time taken by the homeopath that costs the money......a consultation will on average last one and a half hours....then of course the homeopath has to go away and analyse the findings, seek out the appropriate remedy, and then prescribe it.
It won't be like a visit to your GP(an average time consultation is just 7 minutes) where he/she is writing you a prescription as you sit down.

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If you think it does you good, then it does do you good.

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I stand correct Margaret.

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Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.
I have seen it work on some people, although I haven't used it myself.

Unfortunately too many people here have closed minds.
.....and I really don't care to argue with you....pointless excercise.

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I hate taking pills of any kind though I have to as of recently for my own good. I have to be pretty ill to take anything whether it be for flu infection or pain. Would rather mother nature and my body sort out the problem. I am not closed of mind just have a diferent ethos towards illness.

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It doesn't sound very serious, but Parkinson's disease also affects your throat. It makes eating difficult, as well as loss of volume when speaking. It also gives you severe indigestion.

Sometimes the pain is so acute it wakes you up, and no prescribed medicines give any long time relief.

Five years of taking prescribed medicines, and this was no better...until I was prescribed a homeopathic remedy, by Accy Web's Nicola68.

I only took the remedy for a couple of months, and the agony I put up with for five years has ended. I don't even take anything now, and the difference it has made to the quality of my life has been immense.

If people don't agree with it, fair enough, though taking an 'overdose' suggest their problem is mental, rather than physical, but I have seen the physical benefits of homeopathic remedies, and know as fact the benefits that can be produced.

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Well a positive point for this kind of therepy. :D

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Nicola is my daughter and I know that she has worked very hard to attain her degree in this subject(she will graduate later this year).
During her course she has studied the following subjects to degree standard : Anatomy and Physiology Disease and Diagnosis PathophysiologyContinuing Professional Development.
So to have people who know only what they have read in the popular press, denounce her as a 'quack' and the subject as 'quackery', is offensive to me.

I think it is up to individuals to take responsibility for their own health and well being.
If you do not wish to avail yourself of homeopathic remedies then that is fine by me, but to stop those who DO wish to use this means of ensuring their own well being is unjust.
Most people who use homeopathy will have researched the subject and sought out a registered homeopath(that is someone who registers with the Society of Homeopaths). someone who has to prove that they have continued to develop in their chosen field, to have their registration validated.
You are more at risk from a hurried GP than you are from a registered Homeopath.

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I suppose most of you have read the story in the newspapers this week about a GP locum who was flown over from Germany to provide cover for a Gp's Practice...people died at his hands, and one man had ten times the dose of diamorphine given to him in error because the GP confused the dose of Pethidine with the dose of Morphine.....yet all of you will have no qualms in consulting a GP in the future...or indeed questioning the practise of that GP(whether he is up to date in professional practice issues).
When did you last read of a homeopath killing someone?

I have said all I wish to say on this subject, and will post no more to this thread.

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I believe there is a place in modern medicine for Homeopathy, when you think about the ancient cultures, how could they survive over all that time without decent understanding of the medical benefits of plants & roots minerals & so forth ? They could hardly nip off to the corner shop & pick up some Beechams powders & Paracetamol now could they ?

properly balanced & also in conjunction with standard medical treatments there is a place in modern society for these treatments. In reality as long as it helps the patient & aids in their recovery why should we fight against it ?

But before calling all practitioners of this form of treatment into disrepute, the established methods aren't all singing & dancing either: Wherever people are there will be others willing to take advantage of their fears & gullibility, for me I believe the expression "Pots & Kettles" springs to mind.

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reading this reminded me of when my 13 year old got stung by nettles and how he looked at me like i was some sort of loony when i said grab a dot leaf and rub it on where he was stung and how after i had applied the dotleaf i was regarded as some kind of miracle worker that put jesus to shame lol.I couldnt believe how after all the years of him playing out with his friends none of them had learned this vital information that any child who played out exploring should have in their memory banks.I asked if had ever been stung before and he said yes but his mum used to just stick savlon on yet if he had only looked 2 or 3 feet away from the nettles he woudl have seen a quick cure right infront of him because dotleafs always grow near nettles.

then my new found power went to my head and i started showing him how to run nettles through your hand without getting stung lol :)

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If we think about it there are natural "helpful" extracts added to some foods for our own good.

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Accyman - they are dock leaves.

Many 'modern' medicines are derived from research into the qualities of herbal remedies.
Old fashioned aspirin is a good example of that.
Unfortunately they synthesise the chemical elements involved, which can produce an adverse reaction as a side effect, and cause another medical problem, which needs yet another drug. So the downward spiral into being a prescription drug junkie happens.

By the term 'junkie' I mean the state where your life depends on taking them.
I was almost at that stage, but made a determined effort to find my way out --glad I did.

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Exactly, Sunshine Vitamin D I believe, why do you think people feel so low in Winter time ? what do the Docs recommend Sunshine (you can't buy that at the Chemist !) Orange Juice Vitamin C readily available in its natural form (no tablet required) Milk = Calcium pure from the Cow, the list is endless when you think about it, so please do :)

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Was thinking of plant extracts and friendly bacteria that are in foods. These have been found to be good for us and no pharmies best in sight.

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Homeopathy and Nutrition Therapy are different subjects.
We have wandered off topic a bit.
I have not websearched homeopathy, but my basic understanding of the principle is that the water retains the vibrational imprint of the substance that was originally added before it undergoes extremes of dilution.
That imprint of the illness causing substance, triggers the body's natural defence mechanism to overcome the illness.
That is how it is known as 'treating like with like'

If I am wrong, I rely on our homeopathy graduate to correct me.

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And is not treating like with like much the same as inoculations? And how many drugs are made after finding the benefits found from substances found in nature, plants and animals.


The demonstrators should find something usefull to do!

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Vaccinations are a whole different ball game:eek:

The principle of treating 'like with like' is the same
BUT - injecting has a different effect from ingesting, and the vaccines are loaded with toxins needed for their manufacture and keeping qualities.

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i would rather take placebos,,,than Dr Harold Shipmans cure for aches and pains,,,,,,,,,if it seems to work why knock it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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What this thread has shown is that we do not have enough knowledge of this topic to be true judges of it. I threw in an example of plant extracts and bio cultures to food to show that we are in many ways ignorent of what can be best for us. The pharmaceutical companies have a monopoly and will try and suppress or discredit anything that can/will hit them in the pocket.

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Well maybe they're disgusted that people can profit from something that actually causes nothing but a placebo effect. To be fair, if someone was saying that their homeopathic remedy cured cancer and cost, I don't know, £100, we'd be disgusted because 1. we'd know it was a lie and 2. it'd be profiting off sick, potentially dying people.

They targeted Boots probably because it has the dominant position in the market and is the most visual target for impact.

I imagine that there would have been educated people about these things in their midsts as well who knew that you could take a large amount of them with no dangerous affect. Most protests about anything like that involve academics who spend their whole lives trying to prove their anti-capitalist point.

Fair play to them I say for caring enough about their cause to take the time to prove their point. It didn't harm anyone, unlike animal rights protesters and the likes, so it's fine by me. I can't stand people who cause harm to innocent people to prove some sort of point though.

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I think you'll find they aren't saying it'll cure "X Y & Z" more that it is an alternative to try when conventional methods don't seem to be working. secondly you can't claim something is guarenteed "to cure" unless it has gone through extensive tests & trials, so I don't believe the companies are saying this.

I'll give you the boots comment because if you're going to protest of course you'll go where you get the maximum attention. One thing in Boots favour though as opposed to some other Medical/Chemist shop chains is, I believe non of their testing of products are done on animals( I stand to be corrected should this not be true). So maybe a more disreputable company would've been better to demonstrate outside.

As to the Academics trying to "prove an Anti-Capitalist point" this I fear is a complete misnomer The Word Academic defines some one who has gone through Schooling / Uni / College gaining qualifications (presumably & at no small cost to the individuals family !) along their way so they can get a better job at the end of it all with "Better Pay" now there's a true anti capitalist ideal.

Yes I'll give you that as well, fair play for people who have the strength of belief strong enough to take them onto the streets to protest their feelings, but I'm sure the police were happy to give up their weekends with their families to make sure no one came to harm, due to the extra control required to ensure a peaceable demonstration & the flustered mums with small kids being even more stressed by being harangued for going into Boots to buy medicines for little Joihnny & Janeys cold .... yes have a nice Weekend !

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I was using the word 'Academic' in reference to those who spend their lives researching for journals, books and conferences on specific topics, such as professors, lecturers or just full time researchers. Not just anyone with an education. I don't consider myself an 'Academic' and sadly, it costs me a hell of a lot of money so I don't consider it a capitalist thing either.

I personally take zero medicine accepted Ibuprofen for muscle ache. I don't believe that things like cough medicines and whatever else is used on too regular a basis actually does anyone any good, so I'm fortunate enough to not have to buy into any market, whether it be conventional or alternative medicine.

I don't think the protesters could have picked a better location personally and the whole point is to disrupt people who are shopping so then they actually see the effects (or lack of, rather) of what they are doing. There is no point picking a location that isn't going to get the attention of the people they are trying to prove a point to.

As for animal testing, it has been proven that the lives of the average person is extended by 20+ years thanks to medicines and other aids being tested on animals, so I'm only against it for cosmetic purposes personally. They can test whatever medicines they like on animals for all I care, providing it follows guidelines for animal welfare and doesn't cause unnecessary harm. Humans are tested on eventually so it's not such a massive deal for me.

As for police resources, well it is the government who decides whether these things require police attendance in the first place. I've been to small demonstrations that haven't had the police there. It's all just a matter of opinion on that issue. I agree that if it hadn't been well researched and there had been a health problem then that would be a waste of NHS resources though, but then there are wastes of NHS resources every night with people getting ridiculously drunk beyond what is necessary if you enjoy alcohol consumption. I'd rather people were trying to make the world better through their protest and risk a waste of resources than getting stupidly drunk and making no point and wasting the same, actually more resources.

So my opinion doesn't really change, though your points are valid. I've nothing against alternatives being available, but they should be regulated and be proven to actually have a real affect, especially if they are going to cost large amounts of money and be available straight off the shelf.

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Conclusions: Homeopathy appeared to be at least as effective as conventional medical care in the treatment of patients with the three conditions studied.

Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. - The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine - 7(2):149

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'The response to treatment as measured by the primary outcomes criterion for patients receiving homeopathy was 82.6%, for conventional medicine it was 68%. Improvement in less than 1 day and in 1 to 3 days was noted in 67.3% of the group receiving homeopathy and in 56.6% of those receiving conventional medicine.'

'The adverse events for those treated with conventional medicine was 22.3% versus 7.8% for those treated with homeopathy. Seventy-nine percent (79.0%) of patients treated with homeopathy were very satisfied and 65.1% of patients treated with conventional, medicine were very satisfied. In both treatment groups 60% of cases had consultations lasting between 5 and 15 minutes.'

'CONCLUSIONS: Homeopathy appeared to be at least as effective as conventional medical care in the treatment of patients with the three conditions studied.'

Homeopathy and conventional medicine: an outcomes ... [J Altern Complement Med. 2001] - PubMed result

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I think the issue is really the fact that there are SOME medicines on the market that market themselves as 'homeopathic' and aren't particularly well-regulated. Like with many things, some things just slip the net and jump on the bandwagon in order to reap the profits without giving the benefits. There is a lot of rubbish sold in Boots and other pharmacies that the NHS wouldn't dream of wasting money on, and I think that is the point.

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I have no desire to go over & dissect your individual points in your post (37) as the relevant issues have been covered. All I will say is that some folk feel happier taking the Homoeopathic remedies & it works for them, therefore should they not be left this solace, rather than have it torn down at every turn as being "Fraudulent". Each to their own & live & let live ?

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Well like I said, I have doubts about both conventional and homeopathic medicine, so I'm not disagreeing with you as such. But I'm not going to bother defending the pharmaceuticals industry in any sense because I find excessive pricing of medicines, conventional or otherwise, to be in bad taste.

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I take thirteen different conventional drugs every four hours, and I benefit from them, even taking into account the side-effects.

I've taken homeopathic remedies, and have seen marked physical benefits, and there have been no noticable side-effects.

If you're unwell, and something makes you better, just be thankful, whatever it is.