Argies upto no good again !!!
 

Not content with the hand of God !! & continued demands for Britain to hand over sovereignty of the Falklands to Buenos Aries, they are now kicking off about shipping in their waters being more stringently controlled, will they ever give it a rest !! :confused:

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Think its more to do with GB drilling for oil Dave than anything else

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If this nonsense continues I shall have no alternative but to go round the Argy embassey and chuck a can of corned beef through their front window. Let's see what they have to say about that.

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i wasnt aware they took returns good luck get a refund :D

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They'll just take the key openers off every tin Tealeaf:D

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i think their tins have caused more injuries to british citizens than what their army ever could :)

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What the argies need is another lesson like the Belgrano.
Couple of tin fish and they will give the place a wide birth.

Retlaw.

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Oh don't start that again Retlaw we'll have Tin Pot Tam, standing for Parliament again

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Now, now T' not like you to get all in a lather ignoring facts, I thought Corned Beef came from Fray Bentos urguay?

Tastes good anyway so long as we can get it out of the can without slashing wrist's opening it.
:D

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imo's and goths love corned beef they get a last supper before they do themselves in with the tin :D

after a grown up has helped them with the key that is :rolleyes:

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Err...that's where one of the canning factories are. Corned Beef comes from the Argentine, Brazil and Uraguay.

I shall check carefully on the label when I buy my tin. There's no point in chucking Brazilian corned beef through the Argy window, is there?

Anyway, I trust the rest of you will be boycotting Argie corned beef from now on and I hope the supermarkets will then clear their shelves of the stuff.

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Here here:mosher:

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we could recycle their tins and make missiles out of them beofre handing them back :)

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I bet that slimey frog president Sarkozy has already been on the blower to the head honcho in Brunos Aires offering to flog him a few more Exocets.

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Don't forget the EU has extended its tentacles of power considerably since the Falklands war. It even has its own foreign minister now. What's the betting they'll get involved?

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Aye, they'll stick their nose in. Don't forget, last time the Belgian government refused us access to NATO ammunition held on Belgian soil and as for the frogs - despite assurances to the contrary - they had personnel down there fitting those missiles on the Super Etandards.

I guess this time the EU will demand a heavy price, even though that EU foreign minister is supposed to be British. it will probably be we shall have to bail out the Greek economy, or something similar, in order to get "EU" support at the UN.

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the two finger salute is universal they shouldnt have any problems getting the message :)

only draw back to any major operation is troops

we dont have any spare they are busy sorting everyone elses problems out

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Lets get realistic about this diplomatic dilemma.
The days of a british empire are long over.

If the Argies had colonised an uninhabited Isle of Man two centuries ago and now decided to milk the oil field in the Irish Sea, I imagine we would be a bit miffed too.

The last time this problem flared up, the Argies had invaded, and that is 'against the rules' of fair play. This time they are restricting shipping.

The Faulklanders will need to decide whether they can survive on mutton and cabbages.

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It's not only troops, it's ships. Back in '82 we had 48 destroyers/frigates...we've less than half of that now. Only one carrier is fully operational and we've half the subs we did have. In fact, things are so bad that for the first time since the seventeen century we have not had a ship on the West Indies station (HMS Iron Duke was withdrawn before Christmas; that is why you did not see any RN presence following the Haitian earthquake)

Basically, we're buggared if the Argies go in. The best we can hope for is to get a few squadrons of typoons down there and take air control - but we have to do that PDQ.

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Unfortunatly, the Argies did not exist two centuries ago; neither did they exist when we first discovered, named, mapped, set foot and then put people on the Falklands.

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I beg to differ
Argentina: History, Geography, Government, and Culture — Infoplease.com
First explored in 1516 by Juan Diaz de Solis, Argentina developed slowly under Spanish colonial rule. Buenos Aires was settled in 1580; the cattle industry was thriving as early as 1600. Invading British forces were expelled in 1806—1807, and after Napoleon conquered Spain (1808), the Argentinians set up their own government in 1810. On July 9, 1816, independence was formally declared.

It is also incorrect to assume that before any colonisation took place, it was uninhabited wilderness.
Some south american civilisations predate our own.

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already there Tealeaf, been there quite a while . ....... my son's back out there for four months later this year.

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Yeah, I worked on a couple of typhoons @ BAE Systems back in July that were Falklands bound.

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Really:eek: You mean that there is an outside agency (ie. non-UK) that can exert influence over your foreign policy:confused: But if they try to interfere, you can tell them to go take a hike, right.

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You would like to think so wouldn't you :( But somehow I think that may be a "NON Monsewer" why ever could that be I wonder ??? :rolleyes:

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You don't know the half of it, Eric. They even tell us how much fish we can catch in our own territorial waters. As for telling them to "go take a hike", nice thought, but this spineless lot wouldn't have the guts. :rolleyes:

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considering the attached links I'm wondering if the Falkland Island Legislative feel this is the offical British view of the Islanders , that they are a bunch of clowns ripe and ready to be exploited by a consortium of international oil companies who have been granted drilling rights by the British Govt. My thinking is that the Falklander/Malvinas islanders should appeal to Washington DC and ask for the US Govt. to intervene for aid/help under the terms of the Monroe Doctrine , my thinking is that the Falkland islanders should declare independance from the UK and place themselves under the protection of the USA . :rolleyes:

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Don't even go there SJ, Falkland Islanders (That's Falkland Islands because they're British) are well aware of what the British Military call them & can live with it as the alternatives are not in the slightest appealing, they understand the humour behind it & the sacrifices made so that British humour would remain a part of Island life.

Unlike other Countries who wish to Invade/control & dominate in these modern times, the British presence was requested & has been asked to remain, that is why we have the "FDF" (Falklands Defence Force) stationed on the Islands, who not only help secure the Island but also do good works for & within the Community.

If as you suggest they feel slighted, why then are we still there ? why do they remain loyal to the British Crown ? & all this after 28 years since the Invasion & Occupation by Argentina. I suggest a quick look here may help alleviate some of your American curiosity, specifically the part about Government.

Falkland Islands Government - | Falkland Islands Government - Home


This Monroe Doctrine you mention in your statement I assume refers to the Treatise from Dec 1823, about European interference in The Americas, I believe your then Government applied this ruling with alternatives in mind, such as why let the Europeans get to it when we could probaly get in there ourselves under the auspices of "Protecting the weak". Somewhat Cynical you may say ! Yes I am

How many times has America invoked this clause over the past 188 years ? under what circumstances & what has been the result ? As I said at the start the Falkland Islands are British & wish to remain British, as to not going there I take that back, pay it a visit & speak to the locals & they'll tell you they're Falklanders & their Sovereign is Her Majesty the Queen , not some President ! :mellow8:

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Hmm, you want war between the USA & the UK now?

Wont happen.

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Ya the Yanks now whats good for um:D

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S'ok .... there are still three of Her Majesty's ships in the area: HMCS Athabaskan, HMCS Ville de Quebec, and HMCS Halifax.;):mosher:

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But will they do what Her Majesty asks them to do?

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Of course they will .... in the same way the Royal Navy obeys her commands .... the Royal Navy does what Her Majesty's Government tells it to do .... Same in Canada: The Royal Canadian Navy does what Her Majesty's Government tells it to do;)

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So will they help us out if needed?

Or should we start cutting down the oak trees to build some more ships?

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Interesting question .... historically, Canada has always stood by the UK ... Boer War, WWl, WWll (may I mention Dieppe), Korea ... I don't think Iraq counts, that was USBS ... so, if push ever does come to shove, the answer is: I really don't know.

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You should be a politician :rolleyes::D

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Nah, I'm being honest ... a quality most politicians don't have ... and Canadian politicians, unless being questioned by the Auditor General or the RCMP, will never admit to not knowing:D

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Talk of war is, I am afraid, pointless speculation. After the Falklands Conflict, the people of Argentina, as opposed to their government, have no stomach for another run in with the UK. This current flap is more about the failing Argentine government trying to divert attention away from it's current difficulties. A storm in a tea-cup!

However, as has already been observed, I have no doubt that were the worst come to pass, the level of support offered to us by our European partners would amount to, precisely, zero, null, nowt!

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That's how the last one started, isn't it? And our government had similar difficulties.

Strikingly similar isn't it? Only now we might just have the naval might to invade a bath.

Sorry I haven't introduced myself - I'm new to the forum and still getting the hang of things

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True, but then they had their people with them, and they had not yet been forced into a humiliating defeat, now they don't have the luxury of public support. That's the difference.

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Spot on Bob, was exactly the same in the early eighties and the failing military government

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While I think we can certainly rule out the Argies attempting a full blown invaision of the islands, we may well see attempts on their part to interfere in the free movement of shipping - especially that relating to oil drilling - within Falklands waters and as such there is a possibility of escalation from thereon. Deterrence, as usual, is the best defence.

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I don't believe a full scale Military offensive is likely or feasible, the Argentine Politicians much like our own are full of "Wee & Wind" & while they might make the appropriate noises they haven't got the bottle or backing to take another humiliating arse kicking, it may be twenty odd years ago since the last effort, but it has been a thorn in the side of the Politicians & some of their more Nationalistic citizens ever since & will continue to be.

Should they be stupid enough to even attempt something they won't find an undefended & unprepared populace as it was back in 82, as the FIDF, is in place & ready to face off against anyone foolish enough to attempt anything. While not large in numbers about 1,500 are present & their purpose is to hold & defend (Bridgehead) until a fighting force can be transported & brought into position to defend & repel.

Much as Tealeaf stated the only real thing the Argies will do to cause problems & interference will be to apply sanctions although this won't really have an effect on the Islands, & cause all kinds of economic hurdles for shipping in the area, like a bully who knows he can't win they'll resolve to niggling & petty troublemaking causing quite some irritation, but nothing substantive.

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Perhaps I am getting a bit too long in the tooth to put up with the usual diplomatic two-step around a problem, I think we should get our retaliation in first and demonstrate in no uncertain terms that what is ours is ours and let the UN and our European quisling partners wet themselves into insensibility over the fallout.

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Are you gonna be first in line at the army recruitment office then?:rolleyes:

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Only if I get to press the button! Har-har.

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This war talk amongst you older men sickens me.
You should only be advocating an action that you would be willing to take an active part in.
Another war front just means that your grandsons die and suffer on your behalf.
That is asking too much.

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Why don't you just stick with Flying Saucers, Margaret and leave the problems of the real world for us men to sort out.

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Marg no one is advocating a war, just passing comment on Argentinas continued insistence that the Falkland Islands should be handed over to them, more so now with the thought of maybe oil being found within their boundaries.

Since the Government won't even sit at a table with the Argentines to discuss things as long as they demand the Falklands & the Islanders themselves wanting no part of Argentina. All that's left to them to save face is these empty threats, but it still doesn't stop them being a nuisance about the whole thing.

As to peoples Sons & Daughter, Brothers, Husbands dying in a foreign land, you're looking at the wrong people. You want someone to blame look to the Government of the Day (regardless of which Country). The reason these Lads & Lasses are sent off to fight & die is because the Government of that Country is incompetent & can't handle the situation through diplomatic means & bring out the "Big Stick" its Armed Forces. sadly it's then these folk who suffer the casualties & fatalities & not the Politicians who sent them.

If we sent the Politicos & their crowd along to physically fight it out between themselves, I do believe the decision to commit troops would very seldom arise & a political solution would be sooner found.

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IF two letters biggest word in english language.:rolleyes:

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Incidentally I have taken an active part in a war & believe me a day didn't go by where I didn't think "Why am I here?". The answer was simple because the Government couldn't sort it so we had to try to.

Then once we got the upper hand & were getting ready to square the problem away guess what .......Politicians stuck their beaks in again & stopped us. The Job still wasn't done & that is why the Lads & Lasses of the Forces are still fighting & dying in a Foreign Land.

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Margaret, in an ideal world there would be no need for a big stick and the willingness to use it. But, sadly, we live in a far from ideal world. The rapaciousness and arrogant stupidity of our political classes ensures that a big stick will always be needed. Because if it is not our politicians who are causing the trouble then you can be sure it will be other nation's politicians who are at the source of the aggravation. There seems no way out of this. This year it is Afghanistan which is the focus, next year who knows, maybe Iran? And the year after that, North Korea?

That is why, as taxpayers, we continue to judge it wise to maintain a volunteer standing army which we hope is of sufficient deterrence by its presence alone. Unfortunately, as DaveinGermany points out, it is sometimes necessary to use our big stick. When that happens it is usually because the idiots we choose to lead us can easily talk their way into trouble but are not too hot at talking their way out of it again. If you wish to apportion blame for the often pointless loss of our brightest and best then be sure to lay it at the correct door.

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If HM government are looking for allies, diplomatic or military, don't forget that the US owes you big time for being their only real allies in the "War on Terror." They see South America as their sphere of influence; and, with their military and economic muscle, and a desire for stability in the area, they could easily broker a diplomatic solution which would favor the one true friend they have had in the world over the past decade or so .....

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Yeah right, there is about as much possibility of that happening as there is of Osama Bin Laden being awarded the Congressional Medal of Honour.

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Wrong bob, more chance of osama gettin it.:D

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I wouldn't be so sure on this one ... esp. if there is oil to be found .... the US can't actually, or won't, go in and grab the oil themselves; so, they would rather see it under British control .... most of the oil that the US imports comes from us; and the reason is: the stability of Canada. If there is oil the US would not like to see it under the control of Argentina, or any other state with a history of political instability.

Oh, and it is Medal of Honor; they dropped the "Congressional" bit a while back.;)

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Initial thoughts ...... no thank you, we can manage well enough on our own, I mean we did back in 1982 & it was all over within a few months. The Americans got involved in the NI peace process with Ol' Bill "Trousers" Clinton back in what was it 1992 ish, we didn't get that sorted until 2007.

A somewhat drawn out & tedious process on reflection & in all honesty the American influence didn't really bring too much to the negotiations except the flow of arms was slowed down to the terrorists & somewhere neutral to hold talks.

Our latest joint foray into Political negotiations with the Americans into a third Country pretty much speaks for itself really Iraq & Afghanistan, enough said on the topic already I believe. But should Oil be found in & around the Falkland Islands I believe we may well obtain American "Assistance" in one form or another asked for or not !

Jaundiced ? Cynical ? why ever would you think that ?

As the direction this thread has taken was instigated by an American view on how the Falkland Islanders may have perceived the British opinion of them to be, could we please have some views from the Americans as to the validity of our points ?

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Well, as it is, according to a map I have seen, the oil reseves so far located are under British control and as we have seen HMG is unlikley to relinquish control voluntarily.

As for America rewarding its one true friend and ally, we had ample demonstration of it's sense of obligation when the contracts were handed out for the reconstruction in Iraq. Speaking personally, I would not trust America to act out of anything other than self-interest.

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Well, I'm not American, but I'll add my two cents' worth: America will act in the best interests of America, and why not? Canada still has the luxury of being able to act in the best interests of Canada ... seems like, from what many of you say, the United Kingdom has lost, or is quickly losing that option; it's been swallowed up by that EU monster. Your true friends in this world are probably the English speaking peoples of North America, not Merkel, Sarkozy and crew. This, by the way, is only the opinion of an outsider looking in.;) So, tell Europe to screw off on this one, and do what is best for Britain. I realize that 1944 seems like a long time ago; but it is still within living memory of many folks: it was Britain, the US, and Canada who went ashore at Normandy to kick German ass and give France back to the French who were unwilling to defend it in 1940. Ok, so this aint 1944, or 1982; and the world has changed a helluva lot; but I believe that the natural affinities (for want of space, I'll stick with this simplification) are still there.

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Pretty much on the mark Eric, too much of Britains Sovereignty has been erode & handed over to the melting pot in Brussels, they then send out dictates as to how we as a Nation should behave, respond, shop weigh & measure things, the rot is already deeply set in.

It wouldn't be impossible to try & turn things round but it would be quite painful & expensive to change the Countries ultimate demise into another bland conformist Euroland. The "British people" on the other hand have been so diluted by immigration that an Authentic British opinion would not be forthcoming.

A return to the days of W.A.S.P nations working together & with each other & Europe being a favoured trading partner are a long lost memory in the UK. Most people probably aren't even aware of its meaning (go on google it). It also appears that there is insufficient push from the Politicians to even consider the possibility of reversing the trend & so we plod blithely on into Euro ignominy.

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something interesting, re. oil drilling in the Falklands/Malvinas is the news that the Rig being positioned (Ocean Guardian ) is owned by a company called Diamond Offshore ,a company based in Houston Texas, not really a surprise to folks who have had worked in the oil business , but what may be of interest is the fact that this company previously operated under the name of Zapata oil
Zapata Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
interesting how the name of an ex US President is mentioned as one of the companys founders ..... so maybe/perhaps if the Argentines were to make some sort of military move, American 'influence' would be required to protect US 'property/assets


as the old saying goes ......"if you sup with the Devil best use a long spoon"

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Well it looks like there is American influence involved already, why am I not really surprised. But could this also be part of the reason why Hugo Chavez has suddenly got up on his hind legs to do Monkey tricks for the Argentines, because prior to this "British Rig" arriving he has been awfully quiet.

The man has been the Venezuelan President since 1999 & is only now touting the Argentine Sovereignty of the Falklands, rather convenient timing it appears. I do believe a couple of years ago he had a chunter at the Americans (well Bush in particular) calling him "ignorant" "dangerous" & the most offensive a "Donkey".

Now though he's gobbing off about the Queen, not the most sensible person it appears. I don't think for one minute Her Maj will be choking on her Custard cream & Cuppa & calling Phil & the kids in to watch the funny little man on the Tele. The fact that he calls her Mrs Queen & telling her the days of Empire are gone & she should hand the Falklands over to Argentina. Foolish Foolish.

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Well, at least he was on the money about Bush .... Francoise Ducros, aide to former PM Jean Chretien, was a Canadian heroine for a while, after calling Bush a "moron" .... which, by the way, is an insult to all morons.

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If we really want to pee the Argies off, we should position our next rig which we send down there about 1 mile inside British Territorial waters (and hence just outside Argie waters) and then commence some slant drilling in a westerly direction.

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Don't think they have forgiven us fer the "Belgrano" which is hardly suprising.:rolleyes:

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Why, it was a warship so we sank it. I don't care if it was in the Irish Sea when we sank it. I don't buy into the "we will have a war but just in this bit of the sea" nonsense

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They will soon suss that one out. Thats the same engineering they apply to the corned beef tins isn't it :)

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Always thought that they should have special instructions on the label for folks who are drunk and stoned ... so you don't have to head for the g'radge and get the pickaxe.:D

However, if this crisis should come to a head, I forsee a diplomatic solution strongly favoring the UK ... if there is oil there, the Americans would much rather see it under the control of a stable (for now, anyway) ally. And if the Argentinians don't like it, then it's time for the military muscle ... we could rent you a few ships, for old times' sake. And you can take back that bunch of junk, HMCS Chicoutimi, that you unloaded onto us.:mad:

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Oh, and Chicoutimi used to be HMS Upholder.

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Seems like Malcom Glazer of Manchester United fame was quite heavily involved.

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Absolutely spot on Neil :mosher:

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All this talk of a diplomatic solution is crap, the argies won't settle for anything less than total control.
If oil is found they will start pushing for control again. Any thought of putting them off with a promise of Royalties from any oil extracted, would be an admission that they have some claim on the Falklands.
As previously quoted on this thread the septics would prefer the oil is under British control.
A nuclear sub in the area might be a better deterent.
Retlaw.

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What makes you think there is not one there already ;)

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cos P.B. woulda told us in the observer.:D

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Not always, but he did tell me on the phone last night:D:p

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I do believe the Argentines will duly become quite noisy in the near future if this amounts to anything.

Britain's Rockhopper finds oil off the Falklands - Telegraph

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Exactly what I thought Dave when I read that:rolleyes: