The Budget
 

Are you better or worse off?

You can find a budget calculator here: BBC News - Budget calculator 2010 although it is not comprehensive.

My housemate is not too happy with the 10% increase in the price of cider. ;)

My biggest peeve is the hidden stealth tax on working people. It's not within the BBC's budget calculator as it's sneakily done. They're going to freeze the personal tax allowance, where as normally it increases in line with inflation. This means that you'll be taxed an extra £50 on your income. I'm absolutely against this. I think the personal allowance should be raised to £10,000 so the lowest income workers are taken out of tax altogether.

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So is your housemate a wino?

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from the bbc's website .. BBC News - Parties draw economy battle lines on day after Budget

But Mr Osborne claimed 30 million workers were facing an effective tax rise due to the freeze on personal allowances.
He said the details, contained in official documents, were a new "stealth tax" and Mr Darling had "said nothing about the biggest tax rise in the Budget" in his speech.
Mr Darling said that tax thresholds are linked to the inflation rate the previous September. At the time inflation was negative so "in theory these allowances should have been cut... now that would have been daft... so I froze them".

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well i certainly liked the bit about increases on Cider n Alcho-Pops,

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Alcopops o.k, but Cider ? you can't get much more British than a Pint of Cider in a Country Beer-Garden, or at Home in your own Garden with family & friends on a Summers evening. No I find that wrong personally. Maybe that's why they've done it ! They'd sooner have us drinking imported fizzy pish from Europe, sad days indeed.

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Just used the the budget calculator. I am 53 pounds worse off, didnt realise just how the taxes were hidden.

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Agree dave and since when did only winos drink?

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Our budget was boring .... seems like our problem is how to put a damper on our economy, particularly the soaring loonie, without slowing it down too much ... especially when our neighbour's economy is still sluggish.;)

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If he has taken to the drink, who can blame him? ;)

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I must agree there.
We have to tighten our belts - The poor old Cornish people have to pull in the strings of their trousers. :D

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Given your Party wants 'An Age of Austerity', how will you pay for this allowance increase.

Being cynical I think you are trying to say Britain's debts are a tragedy and we need deep cuts on the one hand but on the other you'll be better off under the Tories. All this without an explanation of how.

Whatever Labour is, at least it is being more upfront, clear, with one just policy it is sticking too. Believe it or not you know what it is.

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yep cider as well, in general alkies n knobheads get out their skulls on it especially from supermarkets.

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With all the cuts in university grants I'm surprised you got a PhD in talking rubbish or have you got an all paid tip sorted.Missed the R out - Sorry
:D

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Then there should be a minimum price per unit as you can get cheap lager as well as cider

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true but majority of those clowns i see drink the other 2, seems lager is outa fashion.:rolleyes:

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It's not Conservative policy to change the allowance in the way I suggest, as far as I know. They were against removing the 10p tax band, and were against the stealth tax in freezing the personal allowance though.

It is Conservative policy to start paying back the debt this year, which means we will save money on interest payments. Interest payments to bankers currently dwarf the entire schools budget. The public knows leaving debt just makes it worse.

Darling is now saying he will cut spending "deeper and tougher" than Margaret Thatcher's government did. I just wish he wouldn't raise taxes on the backs of the lowest income workers.

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your hero "Margaret" did, n also flogged off the housing stock.:)

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all this fuss over cider and how its a disgrace taxing a british drink and all the romance of drinking cider in a country pub.

come on lets face it higer percentageof cider drinkers are jeremy kyle black toothed inbreds smashed out their skulls on white lightening and any other high percentage cheap nasty cider sitting on benches in town centers or clogging up hospitals after clobbering each other or looking at them selves in teh wrong way.

thats teh only people that are going to be hit ,anyone who enjoys an odd pint of cider isnt gonna be hurt too much in the pocket

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Yes great idea. Have the conservatives considered this and what are their plans in terms of lower income workers. It appears to me that the Labour party are no
longer the party for the working class.

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Seems Mancie hasn't been on because he's so upset at cider going up:D White Lightening:mosher:

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That ended in 1997 TD Blair saw to that:rolleyes:

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Cameron has Brown and Darling summed up well. One comes to the door and reads your gas meter while the other robs your house.

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Cameron has no-one summed up well, as his interview yesterday proved, where would he be without advisors?:rolleyes: the mans a bumbling fool.

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There seem to be more cider lovers coming out of the woodwork than ever before following this budget, the country is up in arms!

Cheap cider such as White Lightning may well be the rocket fuel of the alcoholic but if it becomes too expensive then the next cheapest alternative will become the preference.

When talking about the price of a pint in pubs, there is always a tax increase on beers and spirits in every budget but the cost at the bar isn't helped by over-greedy breweries.

If you want to blame anyone for our ailing pub trade then point the finger squarely at them, there is no doubt about it.

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I point the finger of blame at sucessive goverments fer punishing the majority with increases, whilst in my eyes proper punishment fer the dick head abusers whilst not entirely stopping the problem, would sure as hell reduce it.:rolleyes:

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For a start I believe they'll soon come out and scrap the National Insurance increase set to come in April 2011. That's a tax on jobs and the completely wrong thing to do to get out of recession.

Osborne came out strongly against freezing the personal allowance, I think they might reverse that and link it back with inflation, rather than increasing tax on working people.

Think you're right. No reason at all why any regular drinker of cider should be punished with a 10% increased, just because of the irresponsible ones. One way is to increase tax on JUST the very strong cider (like White Lightning), but also come down harder on people who abuse it and go on to harm others because they're so drunk.

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I agree with your second point but to be brutally honest about tax increases, a few pence extra per pint year on year is nothing to what breweries charge the landlords of tied houses per barrel.

If all pubs could buy their beer at one price then the industry would be back on its feet in no time. A pub that is tied to a brewery must buy its beer from them at a massively inflated price compared with what landlords could pay from independent stockists. As an example, a 72 pint barrel of Fosters might cost around £120 from an independent outlet whereas a tied pub (one run by Scottish and Newcastle or Enterprise Inns, etc) would be forced to buy it from that specific brewery for about £240.

Benipete may be able to explain this better.

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An increase in National Insurance is not only prudent, it is also slightly more palatable for the working masses. We are currently facing future problems with pensions in this country and I would rather increase my NI contributions each month and sort that out than speed up the bailout that the banks have left us with.

Yes, there are governmental faults in the way the banking situation was allowed to run out of control but the recession is a short-term problem whereas National Insurance contributions are a long-term investment for the whole country.

Recessions come in cycles and this is nothing new. By 2030 we'll have seen the same banking crisis and everyone will come out to state that this must never happen again. Think long-term.

What the banking sector really needs is the best kick in the nuts we've ever seen. It's all good and well for David Cameron to criticise but does he really have the chutzpah to do it? Time will tell if he gets in.

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I know being pedantic .. but Somerset people Benipete, not Cornwall.

Can someone explain please, is this an increase of 10% on the tax of cider or does it work out at 10% increase to the consumer ? Don't think will have any effect on binge drinking, and the breweries will just pass on to the consumers/landlords anyway.

I don't like the freeze on personal allowance either .. still cutting into my pension whilst the price of goods increase ... :(

Can understand that the relaxation of stamp duty may help to get the housing market going which will be good for all concerned.

Just puzzled that there are comments that have stated this budget is hitting the middle class ... if someone can explain in detail, would be helpful ... ta .... :)

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The thing that really brassed me off about this budget, whilst obvious to anyone "Cuts" will have to come, was hearing that "Overseas Aid" will NOT be cut, whilst not really objecting to aiding less fortunates, OUR OWN PEOPLE should come FIRST.:(

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Has anyone looked at their new tax codes yet! Seems that the thieving toe rags are bent on extracting even more from those in receipt of pensions.

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that will never happen under any government everyone else first then uk citizens can have their scraps or whats left.

oops i forgot what was a fair comment is now racism i do appologise

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agree non will ever do owt about it, as fer care what anyone thinks about my comment, if its racist,its their problem.:rolleyes: i notice none of the politicos have passed comment, still expect little else.

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We have people dying needlessly in these countries. I'm all for putting our own people first, but we're not dying on mass of easily curable diseases. It helps us in the long term if we can support other economies development and human life.

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so am i correct to assume ya wouldn't consider cutting it then?

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I'd consider it, but it's one of the things I'd like to protect yep.

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We also have people dying needlessly in this country, cancer patients being denied life saving drugs being just one example. Is it not right and proper that we look after our own people first? I certainly think so.

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protecting it is fine, when we can afford it, its about time our own came first. problem is no party ever listens to the public.

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Lets be honest here andrew, you have continuously bitched about the national debt, so why when the nations in such dire straights, do ya not really wish to reduce the debt, by a method which is less damaging to our people? cuts are coming in the NHS,Education, Armed forces etc etc, why not protect them as far as possible?

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We're spending less than 0.7% of gross national income on saving lives of people, human beings, from illnesses we can cure by visiting our local pharmacy. Helping the international community develop is not only the right thing to do, but it helps our economy in the long run by them being a trading partner.

We should protect the NHS budget, yes. As for the rest I think cuts are required. Labour agree and want to cut 'deeper and tougher' than Margaret Thatcher. I don't think we should cut international aid, because there are savings we can make at home that won't kill people.

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whilst i sympathise with the poor sods in haiti, i find it very hard to visulise em ever being our trading partner, long term or not, plus other places in the past.:confused:

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International aid should be kept.. we are talking about a very small percentage of national income.. like under 2%.. you may be able to set up a few satelite dishes for that money in Britian, but it could mean water and a decent start for some kids on this planet.

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Are you suggesting that you'd prefer to first hug-a-hoodie at home, rather than abroad?

:rolleyes::D

I think a very popular concept, dear to the heart of the majority of British people, is that primarily charity begins at home, and only after your own house is in order, can you think about helping others.

Not many politicans seem to have grasped that that is a vote winner.

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Seem to remember a few years back the UK gave a few million £s to India for development aid and they spent it buying fightger planes from Russia , caused a few "raised eyebrows" at the time , but the aid continued :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Or it might, as many people fear, mean a few more gold taps in a despot's mansion, or arms for an autocrat's soldiers, to keep his people from being free.

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some seem to overlook these things steely, but jump on the soapbox.:rolleyes:

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that may well be true.. but what is the alternative... let people starve and die of disease because we are told we are a bankrupt nation?

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Absolutely Mancie. Yes we should properly coordinate where the money is going to ensure it's spend on the right people, but the principle of investing in international development is the right thing to do.

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Not 'may', is true.

Factual.

If years of pouring financial aid into the third world, with no strings, hasn't worked, and people are still suffering, then yes, how the problem is addressed does need changing.

'Aid always has been – and still is – ripped off by warring factions no matter how well-meaning or competent the international aid agencies. This is simply the nature of conflict and humanitarian crisis. Aid is a resource to be exploited, whether for weapons, personal gain or political power. The Pakistanis and Afghan mujahideen did it; Angola's Unita rebels did it; and so did the government and guerrillas in Ethiopia. Organisations such as the International Committee of the Red Cross openly and transparently assume that some of their aid (30% in Somalia) will be stolen.'
Response: The BBC was right to report claims of aid abuse in Ethiopia | Comment is free | The Guardian

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have all these become our trading partners andrew?:confused:

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ah well that's all sorted..you should be the Minister for overseas aid ;)

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In a word, yes.

The trade is a bonus however. The fact that we save people from dying needlessly is the primary focus. Helping a country develop by preventing deaths with cures I can buy on the high street is something well worth investing in.

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Some humanitarian aid is given, knowing it will be diverted into arms, to bolster various supported regimes.

'A recent document released by the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has revealed that millions of dollars, allocated for victims of the Ethiopian famine of 1984-85, went into buying weapons for rebellions. However, Robert Gates - President Obama’s Secretary of Defense said the suggestion cannot be ruled out that the CIA not only knew about, but supported, the diversion of aid funds to the Tigray People’s Liberation Front (TPLF)'
EthioGuardian.com ETG: Ethiopia: Aid money was spent on arms


I do think the majority of hardworking British taxpayers, do get sick and fed up of this happening, time after time.

They can see plenty of things their taxes could help to improve in this country, rather than be spent on arming third world dictators.

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Okay.

Here's a shovel, now hop on your bike, and head towards the equator.

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nail bang on the head.

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Last few taps.

;)


'With global arms expenditures still running at around $2 billion per day despite the ending of the Cold War and with armed conflicts proceeding in 20 countries in Africa alone'

'Europe collectively gives more development aid to the Third World than the USA and Japan combined,'

'About one third of all the economic assistance given as aid to the world's poorest countries is spent in the rich world's arms markets, according to information from the Arias Foundation for Peace and Human Progress.'

http://www.europaworld.org/issue6/in...rans271000.htm

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I suppose some people don't care that a reported one third of third world humanitarian aid ends up being spent on arms, as it greases the wheels of capitalist industry, and some rich, fat cat investors will find their pockets bulging.

Bulging so much they might feel inclined to bung their favourite political party a few hundred thousand quid.

:rolleyes:

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It's the same principle as whether or not to give beggars money.

Do you drop a quid in their cap everyday, whilst they're off their heads outside the tube station, knowing they'll probably spend it on booze or smack, with nothing ever changing?

Or do you take them for a sandwich and a coffee, and try to find information about hostels and detox units for them, in the hope of breaking the cycle?

I know which option sounds more preferable to me.

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Just goes to show how a life "overlooking at ducks and geese" can make people out of touch with reality.:D

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Second option would be international development. We're not saying you should just throw money at a problem, it has to be specifically targeted money that actually helps people get out of the situation they're in. This is much more than just giving some foreign government a wad of cash.

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I've lived all over the UK, and travelled the world widely, including to many third world countries, where I saw some of these problems first hand.

Having the ability to see things as they really are, rather than through a dodgy pair of party political specs, is a real eye opener.

You should try it.

;)

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That's not happening.

A third of third world aid is spent on arms, designed to kill, rather than help those in need.

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Britain is one of the biggest donors on the planet, when it comes to overseas aid, and as a people they do realise there are genuine needs, and issues which need addressing. You only have to see how much they choose to give, when it comes to disasters in the world, from the famine in Ethiopia in the eighties, to the devastation in Haiti following the earthquake.

However they do also see the problems on their own doorstep, and some will think that their taxes would be better off spent at home, rather than perhaps finding it's way into the pocket of some western arms dealer, which does happen. Fact.

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Official Development Assistance by country in absolute terms

• 1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...States.svg.png United States - $22.739 billion
• 2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ingdom.svg.png United Kingdom - $12.607 billion
• 3. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Japan.svg.png Japan - $11.608 billion
• 4. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...France.svg.png France - $10.448 billion
• 5. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ermany.svg.png Germany - $10.351 billion
• 6. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rlands.svg.png Netherlands - $5.452 billion
• 7. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Sweden.svg.png Sweden - $3.962 billion
• 8. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Spain.svg.png Spain - $3.801 billion
• 9. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Canada.svg.png Canada - $3.731 billion
• 10. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Italy.svg.png Italy - $3.672 billion
• 11. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Norway.svg.png Norway - $2.946 billion
• 12. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...enmark.svg.png Denmark - $2.234 billion
• 13. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tralia.svg.png Australia - $2.128 billion
• 14. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...vil%29.svg.png Belgium - $1.968 billion
• 15. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erland.svg.png Switzerland - $1.647 billion
• 16. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ustria.svg.png Austria - $1.513 billion
• 17. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...reland.svg.png Ireland - $997 million
• 18. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...inland.svg.png Finland - $826 million
• 19. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rtugal.svg.png Portugal - $391 million
• 20. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Greece.svg.png Greece - $384 million
• 21. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mbourg.svg.png Luxembourg - $291 million
• 22. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ealand.svg.png New Zealand - $257 million

List of most charitable countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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seems "ALL" our E.U. partners donate "Billions" less than the good old U.K.:rolleyes: Do they not care? or is the answer there not as stupid?:rolleyes:

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With the freeze in personal allowance and below price rise in the basic state pension, it makes single pensioners over 65 £110 worse off. Disgraceful.

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Talking of new allowances, and proposed changes, what do you think about the proposals to change the level at which inheritance tax is paid?

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I think it's a great idea. Inheritance tax was only ever meant to tax the most wealthy. Only millionaires should be paying it. Many people have worked hard all their lives and wish to pass assets on to their loved ones, rather than the state taking it away from them.

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Seems rather unfair on millionaires, to be singled out.

Why that particular threshold?

Hardly an encouragement for enterpise, and industriousness.

Soulds quite like communism.

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The richest can afford to pay a little more in taxation than the poorest.

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We'll have to disagree on that one.

I think everyone should pay the same rate of tax.

True equality means everyone should pay the same percentage of their income in tax, which of course means in financial terms, the wealthier will pay more.

Not party politics, just my own thoughts, as someone who believes in the concept of equality, and that it should be applicable to all, otherwise it's a nonsense.

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When talking about the 'richest', that's a term that's open to debate.

To many people in Hyndburn, someone like Karen Buckley, who lives in a property valued at over a third of a million pounds, and who will no longer be eligible for inheritance tax if the Conservatives win the next election, would be perhaps seen as being 'rich'.

I suppose the term's relative, and depends on the value of the property you're sitting in, whilst pondering the concept, and definition of 'rich'.

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I suppose to someone who lives in Notting Hill, like David Cameron, where a third of a million pounds would buy a pokey one bedroomed studio flat, if you're lucky, someone living in a big detached house on the Lancashire coast, valued at the same price of £1/3 million pounds, wouldn't be considered particularly rich.

The concept is all relative.

Luckily the people in Hyndburn are 'rich', in that they mostly have a good sense of humour.

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Better. :D

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The poorest in society are already taxed far too much. They'd have to make up the shortfall if we had a completely flat tax rate. That is wrong in my opinion.

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As stated, we may be considered one of the poorest constituencies/boroughs in the country, but the people of Hyndburn are 'rich' in spirit, warmth, and most, in having a sense of humour.

We count our blessings, instead of of money, bungled together in wads of a hundreds of thousands.

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Not really sure it can be classed as relevant or not but German employees pay a % of their wages for Social security, Health, Pension & Tax. that way everyone is equal in so far as deductions from their pay packets, but the actual monetary value is relevant to their earnings.

So by default higher earners pay more to the system than low earners, but on balance all make equal contributions.

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far as i'm concerned i think equality on paying taxes sucks, reason being many are on peanuts, so why should they pay the same.

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Exactly cashy. Low income workers who have chosen to work rather than living on welfare, should not be punished by some silly 'equal' tax system. Equality is about fairness. The bottom 5th of earners pay 38.7% in tax, whilst it's 34.9% for the top 5th. It's not fair if we have a flat tax which will make the lowest earners pay an awful lot more than that as a percentage of their wage.

Obviously there has to be a balance, because often the rich bring skills and wealth into our economy which everyone benefits from, so we don't want to scare them off to other countries with high taxes.

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Sorry, another of those agree to disagree moments.

If you believe in total equality for all, that's got to be applicable to everyone in society, at either end of the spectrum, or it isn't fair or equal.

Should wealthier people pay more to post a letter?

Or if we still had state owned nationalised industries, should they pay more than a poorer person, for the same gas or electricity too?

As Dave points out with the case in Germany, the rich do pay more, because the same percentage of their income is more money than someone on less.

If people are paid 'peanuts' I'd rather be fighting to get that money increased for those at the lower end of the pay scale, rather than making the better off pay a bigger, and unequal percentage, and a larger amount of tax, than anyone else.

I mentioned the other week that my Labour supporting grandfather happily paid 95% tax.

To me when someone is paying that great a percentage of their income tax, it stunts the capitalist system we live in, and certainly doesn't encourage enterprise, and industry to flourish and prosper.

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I can't say I'm too suprised at your lack of understanding of the concept of fairness, and equality.

Equality for all.

For if it isn't applicable to all, by it's very definition, it isn't equal, and therfore can't be classed as equality.

;)

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to me its all about striking a balance, not trying to drive folk outa the country,sounds very simple when typed, but know it aint,n since when has any government fought to give the lower paid a good deal? i sure don't count the minimum wage as any great help. was just slightly better n what was. aint talking about anyone paying a great %, just a fair balance, yes there will always be whingers if it was, but thats life.:)

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I'm defending no one, other than what I personally happen to think is right and fair, but this was the first government in history to legislate for a national minimum wage. Which certainly was put in place to benefit those at the lower end of the pay scale, rather than at the top.

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Well, if it's already happening in Germany, at the very core of the United States of Europe, watch this space.....

:rolleyes:

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ya convieniently missed the end bit off.:rolleyes:

see my above comment.

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I read what you'd posted, but think that having legislation that protects workers against being paid in actual peanuts, is an historic advance, in as much as there's never been anything like it before.

As stated, I'm not here to defend the government, but only my own thoughts on equality.

Personally I'd prefer to fight for fairer wages for those at the bottom of the pay scale. Which I happen to think has been helped, protected, and strengthened by the government bringing the minimum wage to the statute books, and which less well paid workers have benefited from.

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that we agree on, spent 20 odd yrs doing that, pity no government ever will.;)

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If you want to be pedantic about meanings of words then feel free. My argument about what I think is a fair system stands.

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As does mine, when it comes to fairness and equality, and who actually understands the meaning of the concepts.

:rolleyes: