Censorship
 

As some of you may know, I'm currently in China studying during my Easter holidays and I am having to use the internet quite a bit. I'm finding that the censorship wasn't a massive issue at first but the more work I try to do, the harder it actually becomes because general things I want to read are often blocked, for example blogs, which I often use for finding pictures more than anything. Youtube, facebook and other public content sites are blocked, and whilst I see this as a relatively good thing because it means I have to focus on my studies a whole lot more, I'm a bit annoyed to have this sort of discipline pushed on me in such a way.

I've also noticed it is extremely difficult to find any sources that speak negatively of China, for example things about Tiananmen Square or even corporate groups that haven't been treating their employees 100% great. Just lots and lots of random things blocked.

What I really want to know is how you would feel if they decided to block these sorts of things in the UK, and what sort of impact do you think it would have. I think that education standards would probably improve reasonably because although there are things to procrastinate with that existed before facebook and youtube, I find I resort to reading the news instead! But now I'm feeling a bit oppressed and unable to really discuss it with many Chinese people without fearing I might say the wrong thing, and nobody else on my course really wants a heavy political conversation as they eat then go out drinking after classes, and I've too much work to do to be doing that... so I need to offload my need for discussion somehow and my essays aren't really doing it for me. Sadly I can't access my blog to offload these questions and such because 1. it's blocked and 2. I don't know if my privacy is being compromised whilst I'm browsing on a Chinese network.

So please, put me out of my misery :p I'd also love to answer any questions about my experience of China if anyone is interested! x

Re: Censorship
 

How are you finding communication?

Do many ordinary people speak English?

Re: Censorship
 

Well, I'm staying in Hangzhou and learning Mandarin, and as you may know, there are quite a lot of dialects in China... which are very different from Mandarin, and Hangzhou happens to have its own dialect... so... ordinary people often don't speak English OR Mandarin, which makes conversation impossible. So pointing, nodding and doing actions for what you are trying to say is the only real way of communicating in situations like that.

Some younger people speak bits of English at least, so are able to understand some basic phrases and give basic responses... very very few speak conversational English. I can speak a bit of Chinese now to get around, but if I get lost I have to resort to pointing to a map because I can't understand directions or things like that.

Overall it isn't really that bad. I thought it would be far worse but it helps to be here to study mandarin in the first place, so every day it gets a bit better. My only real conversation outside of the classroom was with a taxi driver though, but that was highly satisfying to say the least! I've tried learning two languages (French and Spanish) and found them to be something that I've never engaged with, but mandarin has been a highly rewarding language to learn so far, if quite difficult.

Re: Censorship
 

I can imagine you'll manage to make yourself understood.

:p

Enjoy, and make the most of your stay.

Take care of yourself. x

:)

Re: Censorship
 

No opinions on the censorship?

Re: Censorship
 

Er...yes, it's bad.

I already know quite a lot about it, as I have friends there, involved with various civil liberty groups, and know the difficulties they have, especially when trying to access information, and contacting some people outside of China.

There are ways round this though.

;):D

Re: Censorship
 

My Daughter has lived there for the last 18 months and its hard to keep in touch, they are very strict, the powers that be think that if their own people see us in the west enjoy our decedent life styles, some of their own might get ideas above their station and want to fill their boots:rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

have you found any foods/recipes out there that you like and will be bringing back with you?

Re: Censorship
 

How does the law work in China? Is there a body of law outside of party ideology?

Re: Censorship
 

my cousin and his wife moved out there in january of this year .. closing michelin at burnley have a lot to answer for ... and i havent heard from them at all .. so god knows how things are going on ...

Re: Censorship
 

Hope there safe n well, but have ya considered.....they just may not like ya?:D

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they like spugs .. :D:D:D they no taste :D:D:D

Re: Censorship
 

whats the crime like out there? messed about with the ninja's yet?

whats their attitude to westerners?

Re: Censorship
 

The streets are virtually crime free and the only real thing that we would consider a crime that I've seen is film piracy. Nothing untoward to people at all. Erm, people find us very funny or want their picture taken with us. We get really good treatment when we go into restaurants and are waited on hand and foot even if there are other customers in the place... pretty much excellent treatment. People are generally patient about our lack of language skills and try to make things clear to us.

I've had no problems keeping in touch with the UK so I'm guessing that if there is a lack of contact from anyone you know here then it is by choice...

Erm as for the law, it's like the UK. Governed by the laws that are created by the politics, the politics is pretty much unspoken of for the most part. People are satisfied with how things are. Local businesses are apparently bailed out by the government all the time if they have people employed outside of the family because the gov doesn't like to see people out of work. Work ethic is immense actually, hope I bring some of that attitude back with me!

To be honest, China is probably the most misunderstood place in our media, because people expect it to be people living miserably because of the infringement on civil liberties, particularly privacy... but the people actually don't mind. And the streets are ridiculously clean, the food is pretty good (not found any recipes though to bring home with me :( but there is time yet!) and I can walk the streets at night and not have to worry about being mugged or raped, because to be honest, even though there aren't THAT many police around in comparison to home, people just generally don't believe in doing those sorts of things or are too afraid of the consequences. In prison here you have to pay for your own food, so if you are poor to begin with then you'll be unable to even beg in prison and you'll just die of starvation. There is no vicious circle of poverty here... it's one straight line... you survive and find ways to support yourself or you simply die... and actually, it seems to work reasonably well in comparison to the sort of attitude we've allowed to develop in England, where you can be sure of some form of help from the government or a charity, even if its just spending nights in different homeless shelters and so on and soup kitchens.

China is hard to actually explain in words, but I'll definitely be trying to come back here as soon as I can because I love the place and do actually prefer the life here to that of home. It is just generally filled with a better feeling even though I'm having to work much harder and be without my British luxuries. I'd kill for a fry up! Or a glass of milk and a block of proper cheese. And some roast potatoes!

I'm going to a mountain for the weekend now so I won't be back online until monday. So I'll respond to anything else then! x

Re: Censorship
 

Find ways to support yourself or 'simply' die!

'it seems to work reasonably well!'

What has gone wrong if such a system only works 'reasonably well'? Are some of the lazy beggers living despite the luxury of no food and shelter?

Bloody Hell girl, you boggle the mind whenever I read your drivel.

The same system here that tries to keep people alive despite their wish to die because they can't support themselves, is the one that is paying for you to go through College, while you can't support yourself.

At least our students only starve if they spend their food money on booze, they don't get so desperate that they have to throw themselves in front of a tank! (Though I can think of one that could benefit the nation by doing that).
:o

Re: Censorship
 

...don't tell me, the trains run on time too. :rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

Lol, I'm reminded of someone I know returning from South Africa in the late seventies, and saying there was no problems for the blacks, because they hadn't seen any.

The person I know was white, incidentally.

:rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

That's not very hospitable, surely they should bring the mountain to you.

:rolleyes:

It's doubtful you'll be able to access these links, but perhaps you might like to read them when you return.

;)

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sdc/hr_facts.html

China Human Rights

YouTube - Human Rights Violations in China

YouTube - The film the Chinese are trying to ban

Re: Censorship
 

You naughty boy, you'll have her arrested if she tries to look at those links now.

Good plan.
:D

Re: Censorship
 

'On March 25, Peking University released a notice on its website that it had decided to cancel four organizations, including the Center for Women’s Law Studies and Legal Services of Peking University, China’s first public interest organization dedicated to providing legal aid to women.'
HRIC | ä¸*国人æ�ƒ

Re: Censorship
 

They have censorship - we have disinformation.
I am not sure which is worse - not to be told, or to be told lies

Re: Censorship
 

i would reckon Chinas is worse Margaret, whilst we can choose to believe or not, they can't, at least not safely.

Re: Censorship
 

we will find out soon enough if labour stay in power because the way mandelson is going its only a matter of time.He is trying to pass all sorts of internet laws which one effect would be access to your emails and everything you do on the internet without even so much as a court order.I think it falls under his digital media bill which he is trying to push through after probably a huge pay off from the movie and record industries, its just a pitty child protetion agencies cant afford his price so his attention could be turned towards protecting them:rolleyes:

im not a tory scaremonger but i have said before i simply can not vote for a party that employs mandleson and insists on creating laws that strip away even more of our rights under the flimsyest excuses

Re: Censorship
 

Ah well, Madelson's a democratically elected politician, so the electorate can always vote him out on May 6th, if they don't like what he's doing.

Oh hang on a minute... :rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

even if labour loose that bastard is like herpees he would probably turn up next door to cameron, he just keeps coming back no matter how many times hes been caught doing things that would end any normal polotitions career.Hopefully a car will hit him soon and end this parasites life but alas i fear only a stake driven through his heart will finaly see him off for good

Re: Censorship
 

So can we safely assume,ya aint Joining his fan club?:D

Re: Censorship
 

Were you free to post that, or is it the voice of your evil controller, communicating disinformation with us again?

:rolleyes::D

Re: Censorship
 

i would sooner chew off my own testicles and fire them out of a huge cannon into teh heart of teh sun before even considering joining his fan club :)

Re: Censorship
 

The Evil controller is Mandelson, and we haven't conspired.;)
He takes orders from the Bilderburg group
List of Bilderberg participants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
..that evil lot who want to control the world
..he seems to be making good progress

Re: Censorship
 

I do understand your point, to some extent.

Every form of communication is censored, even if it's what we do, and don't, tell our neighbours regarding the latest gossip, over the garden wall.

However, since groups like Bildenburg are freely discussed, in the press, as well as on the internet, I don't buy into the conspiracy theory that our freedom of expression in the UK is unnecessarily resticted.

Re: Censorship
 

well mine was restricted, by a certain young politico on here.:rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

Who attends is published, but what they discuss is strictly censored

Bilderberg Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The Bilderberg Group, Bilderberg conference, or Bilderberg Club is an annual, unofficial, invitation-only conference of around 130 guests, most of whom are persons of influence in the fields of politics, banking, business, the military and media. Each conference is closed to the public and the press."

Re: Censorship
 

I take it everything discussed in your home is broadcast on loud speakers?

Perhaps the wind blows the wrong way, for me to hear it.

Sixty years ago the majority of people wouldn't have known of the existence of such groups, unless the press decided to publish that information. We've never had as much information since we first crawled out of the Primeval Swamp.

If I decide to invite 130 people to my house, despite being a bit squashed, what goes on inside will remain 'censorsed', from the majority of the non-invitees.

;)

Re: Censorship
 

I refer to to the famous speech made by JFK shortly before he was assassinated
YouTube - JFK Blows The Whistle on Secret Societies!

Re: Censorship
 

Don't wear Chanel, if you drive in an open top car, after posting that. You'll never get those stains out.

:D

(I wonder how long it will be able to be seen by the general public, before it's censored, and removed?)

:rolleyes::D

Re: Censorship
 

Problem with JFKs speech, would be fine if he was sincere.:rolleyes: a certain dead blonde movie star, proves otherwise,:)

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Ya the CIA thought she was a bad singer cashy:D

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Question for Blazey .......... You complain about the locals not understanding you ... could it be that... "Hey up" , "ello luv", and "give us a fag" doesen't readilly translate into the local Mandarin dialect, maybe your spoken English isn't up to the Oxford/Cambridge BBC English that the locals have been trained to understand . :confused:

Re: Censorship
 

According to my Daughter they do understand sign language though SJ:rolleyes:

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'Was'.

Past tense.

People power.

:D

Re: Censorship
 

Or a cashy clip round the ear:D

Re: Censorship
 

is the chinese food better or worse than in england?

Re: Censorship
 

no idea but i can tell you the chineese dont eat what they sell , a friend of mine dated a chineese girl whos parents owned a takeaway and a resturant and when invited to tea was told that they never eat the stuff they sell because its crap and would probably kill you and made a propper traditional chineese meal for him which was totaly different from what we buy in teh takeawys lol.

the bad stuff dosnt half taste good though lol :D

Re: Censorship
 

Knowledge is power so the Bejing keeps that knowledge from the masses to stay were they are.

Re: Censorship
 

A bit worrying that we haven't heard from Blazey for two days now. Do you think she's finally driven the Chinese police beyond the point of endurance? "We velly, velly sorry, missy, we tell you be quiet. Still you yakety yakety yak. Now you go to clinkee!" :eek:

Re: Censorship
 

Nah shes away in the mountains fer weekend, was on news tonight- All the Yetis have fled.:D

Re: Censorship
 

Ya heard they were doing impressions of Lemmings cashy throwing themselves of mountains to get away, :D

Re: Censorship
 

In case you didn't notice, forums aren't necessarily blocked in China, so discussion isn't necessarily blocked out.

And you're right, people don't know things here that maybe they should know. People lack information on Tiananmen Square for example. The difference is that they know it exists, the use of proxy servers is pretty widespread here to access information that is censored, and generally they just choose to not bother finding out. I don't think it is a massive issue. The students that I've spoken to here don't mind it, and they live here. They've been pretty honest about how they feel about other things, so I don't see why they would lie about their feelings on censorship.

The whole Google thing here isn't an issue because it isn't China's biggest search engine. There are more popular social networking sites here than facebook as well so that isn't an issue for them. If anything, China isn't blocking discussion and information at all, it just wants to keep China as China, and not taken over by global companies. That is the impression I've got from the whole thing anyway.

And I couldn't get on either website through ordinary web browsing, but with the use of a proxy server I can. And it isn't a difficult thing to do here. Just not legal, but I suppose the nearest equivalent is downloading music illegally at home. Using bandwidth to facilitate the acquisition of information that is prohibited. The only difference is that we see different things as acceptable I guess. Nobody is harmed by not being able to access negative information here, just living in ignorant bliss I guess. Or that is the idea behind it at least :p

Re: Censorship
 

There is something very wrong when goverment keep the truth from the people, that could never happen here, could it;)

Re: Censorship
 

'Human rights activists say more than 30,000 people are employed to keep an eye on websites, chat rooms and private e-mail messages.'
BBC NEWS | Technology | Behind China's internet Red Firewall

Re: Censorship
 

Oh in China, thought you were on about GB for a minute:rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

We keep an eye on you here, but don't get paid for it.

;)

Re: Censorship
 

Are people naive enough to think our activity isn't accessed on a regular basis in the UK?

England could probably learn a lot from China, but there tends to be a pretty negative attitude taken towards learning anything from another culture in general, hence why we're so well known for being lazy with languages I guess, so it isn't surprising to find that China isn't actually as bad as what people think at home and it is actually a ridiculously safe and lovely place to be.

Re: Censorship
 

In that case blazey you have our permission and blessing to go and live there;)

Re: Censorship
 

But who is watching you:rolleyes:

Re: Censorship
 

Anyone who wants to.

If they're really that bored.

:D

Re: Censorship
 

Remember - as though you could possibly forget, it is a Communist controlled country - slightly to the left of Socialist.
So far we still have free speech - to a certain degree, providing you are not slanderous. There are also a number of non-Communist countries where there is censorship - particularly a number of Muslim states.
Personally I hate censorship in any form.
I only got to Hong Kong, never over the border, but I was able to look and see the other side from Lok Ma Chow (Sp?).
Have fun, enjoy the experience even if there are frustrations, you may only pass that way once.

Re: Censorship
 

It's not just China you've got to worry about. This evening (at 9pm) Panorama is doing a report on Alder Hay Children’s hospital in Liverpool. Without spoiling what you may wish to see, the gist of the programme is about the extent of lifestyle disease amongst the kids of today - a very worrying development.

About 6 weeks ago I was making the exact same point on another thread on this site. Someone must have objected - probably because they had obese brat offspring themselves - because the next thing I knew all my postings suddenly went vamoose! No doubt they are now somewhere way out in cyberspace, way beyond the solar system but the point is if people cannot accept a few simple home truths they should not be on here and neither should any monitors be backing them up.

Re: Censorship
 

Alder Hay Children’s hospital in Liverpool always seems to be in the news - isn't that where the scandal of children's organs being kept without permission of the families?

Re: Censorship
 

Yeah, the organs were kept for medical research - the next best thing to an organ donation. I think the scousers were peeved off because they didn't get paid.

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Yes, yes, Blazey you were right, we did have a lazy way of shouting at foreigners until they understood us.

Our Nation has learnt since then that the only way to impress people from other countries is by taking care about whom we send to represent us.

No longer are we sending below average University Students on 'Cultural' missions.

For the past few months we have invested a great deal of time and effort into making sure that only our elite ever get the chance to sign, 'I need my potty', to a native Chinaman, heck give it another hundred years and we might even send someone that can string a sensible sentence together in their language and from there...

We will no doubt resort to calling out numbers the Chinese at my Local chippy are very good with that.
:o

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Well its over 12 hours since you posted this Tealeaf, must stand half a chance of staying put:rolleyes: