What has happened to Britain?
 

I've just read the following poem and wondered what some of our site members think of it. Any responses?

I vow to thee my country,
the things despised by Blair,
Freedom, truth, integrity,
those virtues now so rare.
We live in times of twists and lies,
of government by spin,
Where the greatest crime for citizens
is love of kith and kin.
Where taxes keep on rising
for decent, law- abiding folk.
Where sovereignty is vanishing
under Brussels' heavy yoke.

All hail to thee, oh Tony,
Prime Minister divine,
Creator of New Labour
and the Britain of our time.
We dare not ask the questions
that help us to reflect
How the country lost its soul
to what's politically correct.
We're becoming a nation broken,
our spirit ever weaker,
Held to ransom by burglar, thug
and asylum seeker.

They tell us there's more money
for the school and NHS,
But with those bureaucrats to pay
the systems still a mess.
In anarchic modern Britain,
violence rules the street;
The bobby who used to keep us safe
has made a tactical retreat.
Terrorists are in our midst,
they have us in their sights,
But the Government's priority
is to protect their human rights.

But there was another country,
that flourished long ago,
A Britain that was proud and free,
one you wouldn't know.
It was a gentle nation,
its people brave and bright,
A country that knew its worth
and had the will to fight,
To preserve its own culture,
that stood for what was best,
In this green and pleasant land,
knowing it was best

:engsmil: :engsmil: :engsmil:

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

I couldn't agree more, Well said Darby!

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

i could not agree more, id really like to know WHY our dads, uncles, brothers fought in the 2nd w/war for? i alwaYs thought it was to keep britain a free country?

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Australia, is going the American way, Howard is under the thumb of George W, grovl, grovl. Here in Tassie, we have just had a Govener resign after 10 months in office, and they are going to give him a $650,000, handshake, Richard Butler ( ex weapons inspector, ). They should never have given him the job, his ego got in the way, I think the tassie govmt are having second thoughts, because of a public outcry.Sounds like Blair, is more of a Conservative than Labour, or is it Labor.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Can someone please explain to me why it is, that whenever this kind of thread comes up, there is always someone who implies that America is 'taking over the world' and their actions are responsible for most of its problems?:confused: I thought that was the job of the terrorists. Alan, all due respect to you, it is obvious from the standard of your posts that you are an intelligent person. However, although 'labor' is spelt that way in the USA, it does not mean that you are obliged to spell it that way in Australasia or the UK. I really consider that those kinds of 'digs' are a little out of order. I really don't believe that people in America look upon Australasia or the UK as 'under the American thumb.' Most people here look upon those people as their closest friends in the world, who generally stick together through thick and thin. You should hear how they speak about the French!:eek: America has become the most powerful nation the world has ever known. They have managed to do this without widespread colonisation as all the previous great powers of the world did, including, may I say, England.:engsmil: I know that Britain was the last great power and I suppose many people there feel that power has been usurped by America, but they didn't come over, conquer us and beat us into submission. I am also aware that Americans are inclined to be insular and many of them are unaware just how the other half of the world live and how living standards have dropped in other countries, including the UK. They are not to blame for it though, that has been handled very capably by the many Borough Councils such as Hyndburn and successive poor economic strategies by governments of both parties. America fought the 2nd. world war alongside her closest alies and together we were victorious. If you look at the two defeated countries, Germany and Japan, I'm sure you'll agree that they're doing very well indeed within the grand scheme of things. I'm very sure we would not have done so well if the wars had gone the other way against those powers. This says more about our countries than any rhetoric spouted by today's detractors and/or terrorists. We English-speaking nations (I use the term loosely);) are very much the same kind of people with the same kind of goals, hopes and fears. I would like to think that most people in Australasia and the UK look upon the American people as their friends, because that is certainly how you are looked upon here. I have a great love for both the UK and America and am truly saddened when I feel any sourness brought to the relationship.:s_sad: We are never going to put the world to rights, but together, perhaps we can keep our own houses in some kind of order and attempt to preserve our individual ways of life, which, despite some differences, are very similar.:)

Yours in friendship,

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

JohnW.

I think far to much hysteria is made about the USA. They are without doubt the best friend that the UK has ever had (at least in the last century), and without them we would be goose-stepping down Broadway (our Broadway not yours).

Having spent some time in the US, and as my nephew was born (and still lives there), I have found some Americans naieve, but all friendly and polite. I do not berate your President, you elected him and that's democracy. I have reluctantly to accept that T. Blair is our Prime Minister, that's democracy...and I accept it (don't like it though). However, come the next election..I think I may just be fortunate enough to see him ousted in a democratic way.

It's very easy and very popular to have a go at "the Yanks", and shows how little courage they have that do it.

So goes the old addages "those that live in geenhouses, shouldn't throw stones" or "let those without sin cast the first stone"!!

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Here's a little quiz question for everyone to answer:

There are only 5 countries, which in the twentieth century,

- were never invaded and

- maintained democracy and

- renounced neutrality (any silly buggar can run away when the going gets tough)


Name them and state the one thing they have in common.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

United Kingdom
New Zealand
Australia
America
Canada

All our's at one time are another...... I've mada a bu**er of it haven't I?

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Doug gets the goldfish.....yep. all ours....a common language, the rule of law and a similar set of values.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

In the maintaining democracy bit does Maggies years of power count?

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Do you want to include the years she had a full & frank exchange of opinion with those towering democrats, messrs Scargill & Galtieri?

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

You can do as I had to go to a s**& hole that they call the Falklands and also to the Middle east for the first Gulf War, as for Scargill all he did was try to keep a union presence in the UK he knew if the miners failed we would end up buying coal from Poland and the USA for more money then it cost in the UK which in turn would put up the price of most everyday basics.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Darby,

You say you hope to see Tony Blair ousted at the next election. My only concern is, who are you going to elect in his place? From what I've seen of the likely contenders, he is the best of a very mediocre lot, and that is coming from someone who stands right of centre (center).

JohnW

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

What are you complaining about, Bazf? You joined the Army to see the world, did'nt you? Anyway, Major was in charge for the first Gulf war. As regards the price of coal....I think you're getting a little confused with your economics there. Excepting that aside, if Scargill really had had the interests of the miners at heart, then he would'nt have been playing politics with the NUM. But then again, he'e only the president for life.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Bazf,

I have to say I think "our Arthur's" agenda crept somewhat beyond keeping a union presence in the UK.

Which branch of the army were you in? I would be very interested to hear any stories you have of the time spent in both the Falklands and the Gulf. We who have never been in the service have little, if any, idea of what it is really like to go and fight a war.

JohnW.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

I don't agree with bashing the US regardless, but any nation who interferes in another nation's democratic elections (such as Nicaragua) when they disagree with the result, is a bit suspect in my book. I don't like Tony Blair, but he was elected democratically (insofar as any voting system like ours is democratic). Anyway, we have international companies who wield more power than many nations, whose interests do they have at heart?

We are in danger of becoming a third world country, we are selling out right, left and centre. I doubt we would have our wonderful Human Rights Act if it was not for the fact that Cherie Booth (aka Mrs Blair) is the head of Matrix Chambers, which is the largest human rights chambers in the country, making pots of money out of it. It does seem that everybody in the world has human rights except for those of us who were born here, whose parents and grandparents worked, fought, and in some cases, died, for this country.

Or am I over-reacting?

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Who me, Bloody hell John I don't like any of the bu**ers, but I would vote for any party that could deliver a decent Social Policy in this country. Foreign policy will all ways be a balancing act between the US and Europe, but I don’t believe in the kowtowing that central government persist in doing to both powers, in particular the US.

However, I think your original reference was aimed at Darby in this instance, so I will give way sir.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Sorry Doug, yes, my question should have been addressed to Darby. Perhaps he will see this and let us know his thoughts.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

I do think that there is a reason to link Britain's problems with the USA, for one simple reason.

I didn't agree with the Bush policies on Iraq, but that shouldn't have affected me. Instead, what we have is a leader (and most of those previous to him that I remember were exactly the same) who is incapable of independent thought. When George Dubya whistles, Blair comes scampering. Getting involved in the mess that is Iraq (and will continue to be a mess for years to come, costing us untold amounts of money) was a shameless vote-catching decision for Blair (in retrospect maybe it won't turn out to be the great idea he thought it was), and the money could have been spent on education, medicine, homelessness, sports, reducing taxes, etc. etc. etc.

This isn't a dig at America (despite the way it sounds!) - what America does is it's own business (for the most part). Iit's a moan about the fact that every British prime minister since Maggie at least (I was far too young to know much about politics before that!) blindly allies themselves with every single decision the USA makes, no matter what the consequence.

And who do we replace him with? What do you call a man with a condom on his face? F**k Nose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps we should take a leaf out of Germany's book and let economists run the country.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hello JohnW,

That's a good question and one that can be answered in many ways. However, this is my humble opinion:
The current democratic system used throughout the world is no longer a sensible approach to humanity. Politicians of every side, are corrupt in one form or another. And they most certainly do not listed and react to the electorate.
The cost of being elected is financially so high that they either need millions of their own money or they have to "obtain" it from another source. That could be a political party, who in turn "obtain" their funding from various (and sometimes questionable sources). If a millionaire "gives to these parties, they expect something in return (well, nobody does something for nothing).
In short, the complete system needs changing. Politicians should not get the media publicity that they do, and they should also not get the visbility that they seem to need.
The "pollies" think that they must introduce legislation at every turn, TAX the working people beyond the pale, spend OUR money as THEY see fit, and create a world that THEY want. Practical aspects must be avoided as that only highlights the flaws in their policies.

I do not have a replacement "idea" in my pocket, I only know that this system is failing everybody and the majority has become the minority.
Not one politician can really claim to have been elected by a majority, as the average turn out at a general election is somewhere in the region of 60%, and a majority from the 60% C is not a majority from the 100% of electorate.

So much for democracy.

In Belgium, everybody must vote at a general election on pain of being given a stiff fine. I am not advocating that we have such a system, but it ensures that a true majority will be achieved. On the other hand, a deep thinking, educated person, may review each political parties manifesto, take considerable effort in understanding the options and make his/her vote accordingly. This however, can be negated simply by an "old dear" looking at a picture of a candidate and deciding "that he looks a nice man", and voting for him!!!
Returning to your original question, currently there is not one politician or political party in the UK, that is worth voting for. Most are bad, and the rest are very bad.
My personal method of highlighting this would be to campaign on the lines of: "if you don't like any of the candidates "Spoil your vote". If all those people who are fed-up with the politicians did so, the number of "spoiled" votes would then be so high that no political party could ignore them, and that would put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

A vote for any extremist does nothing to alter the situation. Look how the main political parties reacted to the success of the BNP in Burnley! It just showed the world that NuLabour and the Cons and Dems, cannot abide the democratic success of anybody else!!

They all need a shake-up!!

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Mickey T Fish,
QUOTE: And who do we replace him with? What do you call a man with a condom on his face? F**k Nose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps we should take a leaf out of Germany's book and let economists run the country.

In Germany the economists do not run the country, business does that. Schröder needs money to get elected...and it comes from big, big business, who then demand payback!! He's just the mouthpiece.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Mickey,

Thank you for your reply. I do understand where you are coming from but don't see why you should blame the US because the Prime Minister aligns himself with their foreign policy. He does have the option, like every other country (France for example)so why not just blame your Prime Minister. The fact is, I think that the relationship between the two countries is misquoted in Britain. I don't believe the American people look upon Blair as someone who comes scampering. They look upon him, and the UK, as their greatest friend and ally. A country on which they can rely when tough decisions have to be made. He is very popular over here, as are the British people. We seem to be looking at the relationship in two different ways. I can only presume that the main reason for this is the fact that, of the two powers, America is obviously the strongest, so in Britain, it is felt that you are playing a subservient role. I can tell you that, the people of America to whom I have spoken, value the friendship and alliance of the British very much indeed, and look upon it as a partnership rather than the UK being subservient in any way. There seems to be a lack of self esteem in the UK at the moment which, it seems, does not allow you to look at the realtionship in this way.

Iraq is a debacle. Isn't every war just that? Was it the right decision to go in? Who the hell really knows? We, the public, only know a small percentage of what really goes on and are in a poor position to make a knowledgeable judgement. When we have elected our leaders we have to live by their decisions. It certainly isn't a perfect system but there is no such thing as a perfect system. It's the best one so far. We in the 'western' world, for want of a better name, are doing a hell of a lot better than anyone else. That is pretty obvious from the fact that everyone else wants to come and live in our countries.

Someone has to keep the middle east in check. Let's be honest here. Everyone says "it's all about the oil" so let's say that it is. The only thing the middle east has is oil. The only reason that oil is of any value whatsoever is western technology. If it wasn't for that, they'd still be grubbing around in the sand looking for lizards to eat. They just happen to be sat on underground lakes of the stuff that drives the economies of every industrial country in the world. But, that little area can hold the whole world to ransom. Let us not make any bones about the importance of the oil flow. If it doesn't flow freely, then the Western economies are in real trouble. If that happens, the whole damn world will feel the crunch. It would be a total disaster. People moan about America, but there is an awful lot of money leaves these shores for overseas aid, not all of it "official". Americans are very generous by nature and millions of dollars are donated privately to world charities every year. If we in the west go to the wall, the whole world will also. Quite frankly, I'll be glad when the middle eastern oil runs out and they weild no power in the world. There is plenty of oil in other countries. I believe Australia has plenty, I can only presume that the Americans are saving the Alaskan oil for a rainy day. They keep making excuses about 'environment' for not going in to get it, but it will be pumped out one day I guarantee it.

I am aware that I always jump to the defence of the US but I do feel very strongly about this subject. I believe them to be the most misunderstood people. I, for one, am very glad that the UK and the US have a special relationship because I have such a great love for both the two countries and the people.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Darby,

Yes I agree. The whole system is corrupt, but as I say above to Mickey, it's the best one devised so far. I do not know the answers and neither does anyone else for that matter. As soon as you introduce the 'human factor' to any system there will be problems. "That's Life" as Esther would say. It's a tough world, we've just got to get on with it. The fact is, that if you vote out Blair you will be voting someone else in. To be honest, I don't see any serious contender. He looks to be the best you have.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

JohnW,

If he's the best we got...then god help us. He may look attractive and supportive from the other side of the pond, but we've got to live with his maniac internal policies...and destruction of our society.!!

As Franco once said of getting a helping hand from Adolph "When you're drowning you don't ask the name of the person who's hand pulls you out, neither do you refuse his help on the grounds of his politics"

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

John - you may be right that Americans are very generous, but it is a sad fact that a great many of them have, over the years, been very generous towards the IRA, who have never been noted for their goodwill towards America's greatest friend and ally, i.e. us.

As to our own poor little nation, the successes of extremist parties in Burnley and in Blackburn shows the feeling of the electorate. If the mainstream parties won't listen, rest assured the extremists will. That's how Adolph got in.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Pendy, - Unfortunately it is a fact that the IRA had some monetary support from this side of the pond. "A great many of them" is a gross exageration however. There are pockets of misguided Irish Americans mainly in Boston, New York and San Fransisco who made donations through Noraid. That is a sad fact which I cannot deny. There are probably a good few misguided English Muslems who send donations to terrorist organisations of middle eastern origin! However, you will notice that since George W. has outlawed terrorism and told the world that if you harbour terrorists you will be brought to book, the IRA does not seem to hold its head so high.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Oh John forgive me, I don't believe for one minute that that nice mania crazed President of your adoptive country and his war on terrorism had any bearing on the IRA. The Irish came to the table long before September 11. Just to under pin these issues further the Real IRA, the IRA and a few under sub groups are still armed and very, very dangerous. There is known collusion between known Arab extremist groups that both receive training and funding organizations funded from money provided by Home Support Groups like Noraid.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

The Irish have been "at the table" for ages, but the bombs were still exploding. I haven't actually heard of any IRA bombs going off since the post 9/11 war on terrorism began. I could be wrong. However, as neither of us are privy to what goes on at IRA 'board meetings' we are never likely to know the exact reasons for their quieting. We can only draw our own conclusions.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

I missed a good bit of this debate because I had to work late and boy is it moving on, I personally agree with JW but being over this side of the pond you do get a different perspective of things my dad a die hard Labor supporter is considering voting conservative only because of Tony Blair, everything we hear over here is how good he is and if hes under pressure he turns things around so I will go with the UK opinion and stay out of that argument.
As for the middle east should we have gone in to Iraq? I mentioned in a previous post I was in the first one (RAF) I did end up in Kuwait on EOD duties (clearing up the mess the Iraq's left behind) and after leaving the forces I worked in the UAE for 6yrs, all the Arabs I worked with and 100% of the ones I meet said Sadam had to be stopped and the only people who could do it was the Americans and British. Most of the countries, in fact all of the countries in the middle east are a form of dictatorship and one of the biggest things for a muslim is not to lose face so no muslim is going to openly support western involment as it looks like a weakness and nonalignment but underneath they are quite happy with what is going on.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

John, I consider you a friend and a gentleman. It is not my intention patronise or criticise the original comment or your reply. You are however quite right in respect of your point that the bombs still go off on occasion, fund raising still goes on, as does the rhetoric. But can I ask in this man’s crusade on Terrorism when he will act to stem the flow of funding world wide to non Muslim terrorist groups.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Doug,

All these terrorist groups must be getting lots of dosh from somewhere. I'm quite sure it does not all come from the USA. Since 9/11 there have been some very strict internal controls imposed upon banks and other financial institutions with regard to the reporting of anything suspicious regarding new accounts and cash transactions over a certain amount. New accounts are severely vetted and financial institutions can be prosecuted with regard to due diligence when it comes to failing to report certain criteria and transactions. This, of course, is internal and the success of such an operation is very difficult to measure. I know much of this because I work for a credit union and my department is charged with reporting such things. Imagine how difficult
it must be to monitor international transactions where this country has no control over what is and isn't reported etc. If I'm a terrorist sympathiser living in America and I decide to send you some cash knowing that it will be forwarded to some terror organisation over in the UK, how are the authorities here supposed to monitor that? We have to rely on the UK being as diligent as we are. I'm sure that you are as diligent, but can the same be said of Ireland? Can the same be said of Saudi Arabia, and a whole miriad of other fringe countries that do not have the sophisticated technology or expertise that we have here in the west? I'm quite sure, that any one of us who wished to fund terrorism could find a way to do so if we worked at it. In fact, anyone who uses illegal drugs is more than likely, unwittingly or not, funding terrorism. I am quite sure that by the law of averages, that must include some of the people who are posting to this very forum. I have never considered you a patronising sort of person. I'm quite sure that you and I can have a difference of opinion without falling out or being insulted.

My main concern in all of this is to try to establish that America and Britain are truly friends. Even friends so large and powerful have differences of opinion. But 'Yank bashing' seems to be a bit popular at the moment and I think it is sadly misplaced. You and I can agree to differ on this forum and nothing of importance in our lives is going to be changed. When superpower-friends have differences of opinion there is a lot more at stake, but they are still friends. They still need to work together to try to reach a mutually beneficial solution to whatever problem is on the table.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

No problem there John and you have stated you case with both honesty and eloquence, the principles of you case I agree with it’s the players I’m not to sure of.

In relation to the first edited Quote, I’m sure your right and the same goes for those who frequent the Pub’s and club’s of Blackpool throughout the 70s, 80, and 90s, they give more support to some of these groups more than they may ever realise. The town was one of the safest places in the UK throughout those periods mainly as a result of the fact that no one wanted to cut off the funding so easily raised in the resort.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Not having a dig, just stating a fact. Im not ani American, far from it, if Australia gets into trouble we expect the US to help out. I love American music, books,films tv,magazines, fastfood, etc, etc, etc. Its just the way I feel about John Howard.There are a hell of a lot Americans born and bred, that are a lot more critical than any of us. I am just on the outside looking in. I have never been to the US, but they seem to be very insular.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Alan,

When you said "Autralia is going the American way..........." I felt the inference was, that you were not pleased. It certainly sounded like a complaint to me, if I misinterpreted that statement then I apologise. Apart from that I have to agree that Americans are insular. The main reason for that is that a vast proportion of them are untravelled. They have never set foot outside of their own country except, in the case of northerners, to go to Canada and southerners, to go to Mexico. This faction of the American public is blissfully unaware of what goes on in the rest of the western world. They think that Europe is just the same as here when, in fact, in some ways it is very diffierent.

I always consider that you cannot judge a people fairly unless you have seen them on their own turf. Please take it from one who has lived in both Europe and America that, for the most part, they are the most generous, pleasant and good natured people, although sometimes a little naive. I also put that down to the fact that they are untravelled. Of course, there are exceptions, just like in everything else and some of them are loud and haughty, happily, these are a very small minority. As individuals, they really try to do the right thing. There are some people here very much against the war in Iraq and are very vocal in their concern. Others, consider we are doing the right thing for all parties. No-one can ever hope to get it all right can they? As a US President, or the Prime Minister of the UK or Australia you are going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Let's face it, some British, Australian and American people thought we should have left Hitler alone.

It's not all that many years ago that the two large superpowers of the time, America and Russia, were slogging it out to become top dog in the world. All I can say is, thank God it was the Americans who won that race. I think our lives would be a damn sight worse had it gone the other way. The US has, reluctantly I believe, taken over the mantle of world policeman from Great Britain. The Brits were not exactly popular when they had the job, and still aren't for that matter, it just goes with the territory of being the most powerful nation in the world.

As I said to Doug in a previous post, I think it's great that we can have these discussions without becoming aggressive and insulting towards one another. I also feel that we all have something to learn from the other point of view, even if we cannot agree entirely.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Thank you JohnW, One of the things I love about forums is getting to hear opinions from around the world and you are a good ambassador for the United States! We once "clashed" when I made reference in another thread about American teenagers but I find it so interesting to hear the views of others on how they see us Brits as I am sure that you do also.
In the instance of this particular thread, I found your views riveting especially your comments made on 25/08 to Mickey. I totally agree with you and personally am in full favour of a continued relationship between the U.S. and the U.K. If we were threatened by another nation in the future, I feel sure that the U.S. would back us to the hilt ---but if we relied on the European countries for help, they would still be debating the merits of helping or not years after we have been taken over!

Saying that, How strong is censorship in the U.S,? The reason I ask this is that my I.S.P. is AOL and while reading this thread, am continually being bombarded with a message saying "THIS AREA OF AMERICA ON LINE IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE" It hasn't otherwise affected my net but I wonder if this posting will be allowed to go through? and has anyone else come across this? In all the years with AOL, I haven't come across this particular message before, Have you upset anyone on high JohnW??

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Just to clarify my position on some things!

I have no problem with the actual relationship between America and the UK - it is obviously quite profitable to both parties in any number of ways. I thought I was having a go at Blair - not blaming America for everything that is wrong with England! If I appeared to do otherwise (and I have oft been accused of muddling my meanings!!) - I apologise. I have never visited America, but would love to do so. There are so many places there I would like to see - New york, Texas, New orleans, Vegas, Washington, etc. etc.

In saying that, I have a major disliking of George Dubya - I don't like his methods. He's too slimy, too arrogant, and can't answer questions unless they've been vetted at least 10 times - oh my god - he sounds exactly like Tony B!!!!!!

My main argument against the Iraq invasion (and I agree JohnW, we will never know all the facts surrounding the issue) is that proper channels were not followed. If we had waited for the UN to agree military action against Saddam - which they would surely have done eventually - the invasion would have had international justification. The constant backtracking with regards to why Iraq was invaded - ie. WMD is not so important, Saddam was evil and needed replacing - really riles me. We (and I mean Britain first of all) have no right interfering in the affairs of a country in this way without provocation. I hasten to add that I can understand why America felt the need to strike out in some way, after all 9/11 isn't that long ago.

Anyway, on a lighter note, and moving back towards the centre of this thread, do you remember how you used to visit your mum, and you had to give her 3 rings when you got home, just to let her know you were safe !!!!!!!

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

What has happened to Britain this thread is called. My parents remember this as a country where freedom was important including free speach. Now there is no free speach. This is not the country it was and which they tell me of. I think that is a shame. I think it would be better to have the freedom to be allowed our individual opinions. If I give my opinion as why this is so changed now I maybe will be banned again for having that opinion. I assume that was why I was banned. I was not told. So if I do the same wrong thing again from ignorance I suppose I will be banned again.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Well... Ifty,

I know this country has deteriorated in the last 2 or 3 decades, socially and morally. However, and unfortunately, we cannot bring the old values back. But there are still some very good people in Accy and the rest of UK. We do not have any shining examples of leadership with truth and honesty (rare commodities these days.), that can guide us (and I mean all of society).
Crime is no longer reported let alone punished. Evil is all around us. People are punished (or berated) for voicing their views or using certain words that are considered by the vast minority to constitute a "thought" crime. George Orwells vision of to-morrow has been here for several years, and now we are not supposed to "think" some things!!

Answers....Apart from a benign dictatorship taking the reins of power, I can't see anything being done to reverse the current situation of our society. Nobody is sensible enough or strong enough or has the courage to stand up to the vociferous minority who would rule our land from the depths of wanton destruction.

I know that you feel aggrieved about being "closed" out of the site for what you percieved as simply "stating your opinion". But lets move on and be the wiser for it!! If you want to make your opinion known, and put your point of view, your way. Then be a bit cleverer, and use a more subtle method. (and here I'm not trying to lecture you or anybody else, nor am I talking down to anyone...I'm simply not that clever or that qualified). You may find that there are many on this site who would support your sentiment.
Unfortunately there are those who will snipe, and ridicule you for the least infringement of their ideas.

On this site (which to my humble opinion is a good reflection of North of England society), we can all discuss many things, and agree or disagree, but let's just try to win small victories with humour and a sense of real English justice. :engsmil:

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Hi Busman,

Thank you for your reply. I really don't know what is happening with your ISP problem, but can assure you that this small fish in this very large pond hasn't got enough clout to upset anyone on low never mind on high! Censorship here is probably the about the same as over there. We can never say that it doesn't happen can we? However, I think our two countries are as "free with information" for want of a better phrase, as any country in the world.

Hi Mickey T,

I encourage you to visit America. It is a great place for a vacation especially my home state of Florida. Although you don't want to come over at this time of year when Hurricane season is in full flow. If you like theme parks and have children, then Orlando is fabulous with Disney World, the Epcot Centre, Universal Studios, MGM Studios, Sea World, Wet and Wild and lots of others within a few miles. If you like golf, we have great courses throughout the state most of them very cheap to play. You can get deals at Lategolfer.com and probably play many of the state's courses for less than fifteen pounds. This includes a cart, very few people walk it around over here. We also have lovely beaches on both coasts, although I believe the Gulf coast to be the better of the two. Sarasota is one of my favourite places.

I love the reasons you give for not liking GWB and TB. "Slimy, arrogant and never answers questions unless they have been vetted 10 times" Isn't that a dictionary defintion of all polititians?? Being politically right of centre, I have to admit to liking GWB better than the running Democrat Kerry. I have to agree with many comments on here that infer Tony Blair is more right wing than left. So, I quite like him also. When I say I "like" them, I mean as much as I could, considering that they are politicians and I generally dislike them anyway. It's all relevant isn't it?

Hi Ifty,

I really don't know which post caused you to be banned. Actually, seeing you are back posting, it was more of a suspension than a banning eh? Maybe you used bad language or were insulting, I don't know, but I can't imagine that you were suspended just for voicing your opinion. As Darby says above, always remember that if you voice an opinion you will find someone who has a different idea. That's a good thing as long as the differences do not provoke insults and bad feeling. I think this thread is a good example of how people's opinions can differ greatly without anyone feeling hurt or insulted by other points of view.

Hi Darby,

As usual, your post is to the point and insightful. Ever the voice of firm reasoning. What a pleasure to have discussions with people like you on this site.

Y'all have a happy Tuesday now ya hear?

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

If my 3 and a half year old has anythig to do with it, we'd be in Florida tomorrow!!!!


His mother and grandmother tell him constantly that we'll be going soon (to see Mickey mouse et al!). I don't get a say in this, just an ulcer from trying to earn enough to pay for it!!!!!

I think my final word on politicians has got to be that how a politician is portrayed in the media has even more impact on his popularity than we realise - and I think we already know it's very important. For instance, in this country, John Kerry is seen as the greatest political force since JFK! I read Time and some of the broadsheets, and whilst our press are trying to engineer the downfall of George Dubya, they talk Mr Kerry up. I think this is the classic British thing of favouring the underdog, and taking those on top off their pedestals.

I must say, the idea of all that golfing for £15 is rather tempting............ !

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

If you come over Mickey and are anywhere near St. Augustine give me a PM. I live on a golf course and we'll have a round together. I have a spare set of clubs you can borrow if you don't bring your own. Mind you, I am the worlds worse golfer so you will have to be very patient with me and give me 5 strokes per hole. If you do, I'll play you for $1000 per hole matchplay.

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

What's the term used...."Bandit"???

Re: What has happened to Britain?
 

Pretty close Darby! ;)