The Greed of the Breweries
 

The greed of the breweries is killing off our local pubs. In five years' time all we'll have is a raft of gastropubs and town centre wine bars.

We could do much worse than have Wetherspoons take over the dying local pubs. They're a big chain but they know how to look after ale drinkers better than Enterprise Inns or Scottish and Newcastle.

It's a pity that there aren't more free houses, which is a prime example of how pubs that aren't tied to the crippling prices imposed by breweries are actually thriving.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

I rarely go to pubs because of the smoking ban.

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The poll has been adjusted accordingly by one of our moderators.

Go on Gary, make your views known! Click now!

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

whilst common knowledge the breweries have always been rip off merchants i think the smoking ban was the final nail in the coffin.:(

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the smoking ban hasnt helped but it is not that that has ruined the pub industry it is the Longer opeing hours due to the supermarkets wanted to open 24 hours

when the supermarkets wanted 24 hour opening you cannot allow them to sell beer and not pubs so what needs to happen is that we erevert back to the old opening hours (although it is prob too late now) this would focus drinkers as it did to drinking in the permited hours and not all through the night. if you remember accrington on a sunday was the place to be coaches coming from all over because you drank from 7pm till 10.30 then went home after some food on church street now the fast food places dont need to open till 2 am and stay open till 8 am this again because we change the drinking laws to suit the supermarkets on a saturday you went out at 8 ish drank on the pubs till 11 when last ordwers were cvalled then went to a night club till 2 am the drinkers were focussed on when they had to drink now they can stay in drinking till 11 pm then go out till 6am drinking it has spread all the drinkers out and must be costing the pubs and clubs a fiortune in extra staff and longer hours .

unless we get back to the old ways of drinking laws all thew pubs will be shut in the next 5 years

yes the breweries dont help but at the end of the day the government need to stop the supermarkets dicktating the hours we can sell alchohol

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know a few couples were one smokes the other don't, they prefer mostly now to stay home n drink, rather n seperate when they go out.:(

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Well I don't go to pubs any more so doesn't really affect me, but I think Ken's right Free Houses are the best, where they aren't tied to a brewery

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your exactly right free houses are the way forward but while the breweries are allowed to shut pubs down and sell on with covenants to say they cannot be open as a pub again then this will never happen

some of the pubs shut in hyndburn could be open as free houses but for the breweries not allowing them to be done and sold only for redevleopment

the government should step in and not allow this to happen if the brewerie sell a building then it should be able to be bought and run as a free house as did the peel park a num,ber of years ago and that seems to be doing well now

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Free houses are fine, like tickler says though its a non starter.

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Thirty years ago there were three off-licence shops in Oswaldtwistle, if you wanted to drink at home, rather than in a pub.

Now there are countless places you can pick up booze, much cheaper than you can buy it in a pub.

One of those three Offies, Renshaws in Commercial Street, the indomitable Monica, would refuse to sell you anything if she thought you might already have had a drink within the previous twenty four hours.

:D

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i think what people dont understand is that if your a landlord you cannot sell beer in bulk to customers because of binge drinking but Supermarkets can sell as much as they like there is no level playing field at all the supermarkets have got our government in their pocket and thats why all the laws have changed

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24 hours, a slight understatement there G:D In fact I was trying to think of the other two:confused:

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There was one near Derek Wynn's barbers, might actually be where the selling out shop is now, and one down the bottom end of Union Road, but I never went there, so can't give an exact location.

I had to serve Monica Renshaw, with her two ordered 'well done' loaves every Saturday morning, and she could be frightening, until you got to know her, and her you, then you realised she was a sweethart, although still an indomitable one.

:D

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there is a various of reasons cheap booze in the supermarkets ,computers,young poeple spend their money on mobile phones,there is no self respect anymore ,a large majority dont know how to smarten themselves up for a night out and would rather stay in and smoke drugs and drink.there are a number of factors plus the monopolies commission killed them off ,when management people from the breweries set up there own companies when they found out what was going to happen and dont care because they are in it for a quick buck.theres a few articles in the link for the private eye below.

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Whatever the attractions of cheap booze at the supermarket are, you'll never beat a decent pub for me.

Hard day at the coal face, hand pump of cask ale and a bag of pork scratchings waiting at the end of it......or a can of John Smiths.

Hmm, just let me think that one over.

Supermarket booze prices haven't helped matters but the government really does need to step in where brewery powers are concerned because in ten years when we're lamenting the ultimate demise of the local boozer another great British tradition will have died.

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Yes, and it sadly died whilst we were under the care of Nanny Red Stockings.

:rolleyes:

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We're in a new Golden Age, Gary.

Billy Blue Hat will make the country a happy and prosperous place again, it's just that Nanny left a lot of her clutter behind when she moved out so blame her. That's what I'm told by the news, anyway.

Dave's been on TV this morning about getting Health and Safety nonsense scaled down so perhaps if he makes good on it then there'll be fewer knee-jerk reactions when a minority of people who actually enjoy themselves screw up.

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What wasn't suprising is that the hoardes of non-smokers, who said they didn't go out because of the stinking pollution, didn't all rush down to the newly smoke free pubs.

They stayed at home, and thought of something else to grumble about.

:D

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We stopped going to pubs because we had children - couldn't afford it and also couldn't always get babysitters.

I think the smoking ban made a huge difference and it was a bit surprising that the government couldn't see it coming!!!!!

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

many people have always stopped going to pubs fer that reason,we did, its the sensible n proper thing IMHO. if did go out then was always family babysitters or no-go. the smoking ban i agree made a huge difference, also our government seems to me, to be the "ONLY" one in europe that didn't see it coming,:rolleyes:

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

In all honesty Gayle I think they did see it coming. It would have been a great way of saying that they'd stopped the binge drinking culture. The problem is that there never was a binge drinking culture, just a few biased reports in the media of the minority who over-indulged tarring the rest of us. What would have been better is dedicated smoking rooms or dedicated smoking pubs.

I don't particularly miss stinking of fags when I get home but I'm sorry to see that the atmosphere has been cleared out along with the smoke.

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She was my next door neighbor for five years:eek::D

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I'm a none smoker but a total ban was cracking a nut with a sledge hammer, smoking rooms or pubs should have been the answer as you said Ken not a total ban

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I didn't smoke until I was 23, so for five years, that I'll admit to, I went out as a non-smoker, and it never bothered me. Though of course for many non-smokers it did bother them, and their health.

What should have happened is that pubs should have been able to apply for a smoking license, thus giving punters the option of where they'd prefer to drink, and in what atmosphere.

My own opinion is that smoking pub/rooms would have been more popular, because smokers know they are idiots, and therefore usually more fun to be with.

:D

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I smoked for over 50 years, for a long period between 40 & 60 a day, but before i stopped I did a contract over in Portsmouth for 3 months, just as r=the smoking ban came into force.
It was summer so pubs that had a garden or outdoor area were lively and he pubs were busy. Places that did not have the space for a smoking area were empty.
Therefore IMHO one of the major factors in the demise of the English pub was the wholesale smoking ban - they didn't ban smoking in the House of Commons Bar, did they???????????
The other factor is undoubtedly consecutive governments - irrespective of colour, having an easy source of revenue - don't blame the breweries entirely, how much tax (VAT, Customs & Excise), on a pint of beer or a bottle of whisky?

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

The smoking ban did affect the Houses of Parliament, but only after the public outcry, when it was discovered they'd exempted themselves, and were forced to apply the ban to themselves too, although they didn't want to.

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Same thing here, too. Smoking nazis staying away from the pubs in droves. Probably trying to figure out how to make pubs and bars booze free zones.:rolleyes: Most of them are humourless assholes; and that's a generous assessment.

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All governments have always raised tax by a few pence each budget on fags and booze but in the grand scheme of things that isn't what hits the pubs hardest.

A free house might be able to buy a keg of Fosters for £130 whereas a tied house is forced to buy it from the brewery at twice that price and still pay rent on top of that.

I've been a quizmaster for a long time and a very good landlord friend of mine has just this week given up because of the breweries. He has run two pubs, both in excess of five years each, and turned them both round from being dumps into thriving industries. The brewery, thinking that they'd get a slice of the pie, raised his rent sky high on both occasions so it was hardly worth him opening the doors.

Now I'm faced with some 21 year old kid who's been flown in to fill the gap, ostensibly because running a pub looks like fun. It's not all fun and games, it's bloody hard work and the pub will suffer as a result just as I have seen exactly the same scenario elsewhere.

The blame is fairly and squarely at the brewery's door, tax rises are a drop in the ocean really.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

It's a conglomeration of factors, yes the Breweries take a hefty old chunk, but you will find that they charge extra on a Barrel of their Beer as part of the lease costs for the Pub in a tied House. As to soft drinks, spirits & guest Beers the Landlord/lady can shop around.

The Government of the day screws an extra few bob in taxes & charges out of the beleaguered tenants & there is no way they'll repeal these things as they are an out & out cash cow to fill government Coffers.

The Smoking ban certainly hasn't helped, but it isn't a major contributor to the situation, pub attendances were dropping off before it was applied. But any hardship for this can be laid squarely at the door of Brussels as this is most certainly one of their edicts, but UK's implementation is by far one of the most stringent.

MEPs call for 'unrestricted smoking ban' in Europe | EurActiv

Finally the people themselves are responsible for the decline of the street corner Boozer, they haven't as much money to chuck around on "Luxuries" like going out for a few scoops with friends, so they stay at home drinking cheap imported Beer, or cheap British Beer bought in the local supermarket & this is an ongoing trend so the demise of the local will continue.

So like I said, it's not purely the Breweries there are plenty of factors involved in the downturn in the fortunes of the "Local".

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Even guest beers are now limited by the breweries, unfortunately.

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It's more like the price of drinks in pubs, rather than any smoking ban or 24hr laws.
Wetherspoons had a their own smoking ban before it was national law, but drinks are cheaper than most pubs... I've never heard of a Wetherspoons closing down.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

That really is a pity as that was half the fun !! Going to the local & trying something strange & exotic from the far flung reaches of the Empire "Brains" from Darkest Welshland, "Greene King" from them funny Fenlanders, frightening "Fullers", from that there London & all those strange brews from North o' the Border. :D :D Sad, Sad, days ! tis' the passing of an age, that'll ner return !!

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I at one stage thought you were an Idiot now, you have removed all considerable doubt.

Stick to what you know - I look forward to a blank page.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Instead of the insults why not give us your assessment, o sage counsell?

I know what I see right in front of me and since I've been in the thick of it for over ten years and watched what's happened I speak as I find. Facts and figures placed in front of me in black and white tend to sway my opinion.

From your postings I assume you've got previous for being a landlord so how about your spin on things?

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

i think some people whould know the truth ive run a pub on two occasions and you cannot buy anything from outside (shop around) they have you tied to everything nowadays and its stupid the only thing you can buy out is snacks and food even down to soft drinks have to be bought from brewery

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And there's hell to pay if they find out your buying outside the brewery:(

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Tickler that may be the case where you are ? I worked with & for S&N Germany, then for a German wholesaler while I was self employed for a couple of years all through the time period 1996-2005.

Deliveries, fittings, contracts, Import, line cleaning & repping, I even turned to at the pumps on numerous ocassions, so I covered a pretty broad spectrum in & around Beer, Breweries & Pubs, so I have a little bit of understanding of the workings of these things :). All I can say is maybe times & approaches have changed since I last properly ventured into the World of Beers & Brewing ........ or maybe it's just UK ?? :rolleyes:

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Sorry for the delay to your answer but not being a councilor or indeed a solicitor I find it hard to talk before I think.

Done a full days research and could not find a pub in Accrington that was owned or run by a brewery

Due to government regulations they were forced to sell off most of their outlets leading to the invention of Leisure Groups who now control the industry

Some are good and some not so good not allowed to name the bad ones but there is no show without him

I do, not like you have to jump on the band wagon of discontent To gain popularity nor do I have people pulling my strings.

Sometimes you sound quite sensible(Is that you talking) Other times you talk ABSOLUTE GARBAGE (is that you talking)

Before long you will be blaming oil company's for the price of petrol.

Thanks for the red square(that's were you should be) and do learn to spell council if you want to stay on it,Or buy a red jacket.:theband::mosher:

Oh bye the way I had 39 years in the trade and was never refused help from the brewery.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Firstly, counsell is quite different from a council, or indeed a councillor.

Secondly, I never mentioned Accrington as almost all my experience has been in the Preston area although I cannot believe that it is confined purely to one region. Scottish and Newcastle, Enterprise Inns and now Marstons have all helped to cripple perfectly healthy pubs that I have been involved with through pure greed. There is no getting around it, I have watched it happen and seen the tenancy agreements which have forced perfectly good landlords to up sticks because it simply isn't worth opening the doors under the new contract.

If, in 39 years, you've not had a bad experience with breweries then you've been very lucky. Trying to get anything out of them to improve a pub (even down to a glasswasher in one instance) is seemingly impossible as a team of reps barricade the lines of communication in order to justify their own miserable jobs. Being a publican in England doesn't look very much fun at the moment unless you run a free house.

There is no bandwagon to jump on and you have a very skewed view of what being a councillor actually means. Who on Earth is pulling my strings and to what ends?

This is a discussion forum - discuss.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

It is indeed a discussion forum but would it not pay off to know something about what you are talking about.

S&N is owned jointly by Heineken and Carlsberg as far as i know since about 2008.Not sure who sold our Geordie friends down the river.:confused:

Enterprise is a leisure company and as we are in Accrington the nearest Marston pub is I think the Hoghton Arms.The only one in Preston that I can think of is in the Docklands area:rolleyes:

Still tell your friend he can get a glass washer for £10 - £12 a week.

And by the way luck never came into it with my involvement with the pub trade It was give and take on both sides:D:D

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My mate was (until Sunday aft) at the Mill Tavern in Higher Walton and it will be a loss to the pub now that he's gone. Marstons' view was far more 'take' than 'give' once they saw profits rising and the new tenancy agreement saw prices not only hiked but previous deals on beer revoked. I spoke to someone at Marstons about it and rather than try and explain the situation they simply cut me off.

It will ultimately be their loss as the 70+ punters that regularly turn up for my games night on Thursday will now be drinking elsewhere.

The one on the docklands is the Ribble Pilot.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

im sorry but i have to agree with ken here the breweries and they are all the same no different run thier pubs with high rents and stupidley high prices to their tennants i dont think apart from the Peel Park in accrington i can think of another free house in accrington (worth drinking in anyway) the Griffins head , Black Bull, Grey Horse Boars Head, Odd fellow, Bay Horse , amongst others all owned by thwiates and run by tennants who are now glorified managers as they have to buy everything and i mean everything from the brewerie i know this as i have tenanted one of there pubs on two occasions so where you get the facts from that no brewereies run pubs in accrington is wrong

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Seeing this thread is on the pub trade (the mods can move it if they want) What are your thoughts on the possibility of drink driving limits being cut by half. For my part I actually think that the amount allowed for drinking and driving should be zero

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Would appear that you hold a minority view Ken.
There are many factors why a pub closes down, a lot of them are interactive, location, facilities, staff attitude, quality of beer and service, availability of food, entertainment, local transport, cleanliness - I am sure that there are many other factors.
If I had the choice between a pub that had decent smoking facilities and one that didn't then I would always go for the former - why, because even though I no longer smoke, many of my friends and family do and going out for a drink is a social occasion to me.
Of course one must also consider that being friendly with any particular landlord may well colour one's judgement.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

i eould totally aggree zero tolerance on drink driving zero tolerance on drugs and driving and zero tolerance on smoking and driving

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Many over the counter cough medicines contain traces of alcohol.
Some prescription medicines contain opiates.
Zero tolerance may well ban many sick people from driving.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Good. If someone is sick they should not be behind the wheel. They're a danger to other road users and to pedestrians.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

That's sounds good in theory but one Strepsil throat lozenge would put you over the limit.:confused:
Plus it is also said that the body produces alcohol in small amounts naturally.Of course I may be wrong.:)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Plus it is also said that the body produces alcohol in small amounts naturally.Of course I may be wrong.

i heard this in Saudi when a Saudi pilot of a Tornado was judged to have suffered target fixation on a ground attack mission and ploughed in. They attempted to blame the WSO (Back seat BAe man) who showed a very small alcohol % - he didn't drink at all, but the pilot was a semi royal prince - the BAe chap was cleared - dead but innocent.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

You're quite right on all points, I'm simply looking at what people consider to be the primary reason for the lamentable state our pubs are in. My personal feeling is that the aftermath of the smoking ban has not been handled at all well by the breweries/leisure companies who are now screwing every last penny they can out of the good pubs and damaging them as a result.

Bear in mind that I have worked with many landlords over the years and pretty much all of them have ended up in the same boat and just given up. One or two were simply bad landlords, of course.

To take the Hob Inn in Bamber Bridge as an example, I worked with the landlord there for six years and he built it up from a good pub into a fantastic pub but the brewery put the rent up as a result to the point where it was nearly £1,500 per week. With the best will in the world, you've got to earn that before you start covering your overheads, buying stock and paying wages so what is the point?

Something similar has just happened at the Mill Tavern, where I host one of my games nights. It has changed the entire dynamic of pubs because inexperienced landlords are flown in to take control of something which needs a steady hand, it never ever works.

If something is turning a profit in times like these then leave it alone. They have to buy their stock from the breweries anyway so the more they sell the better it is!

Benipete and Barrie Yates seem not to agree but just ask your local landlord how the land lies with their particular management.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Aye.. I were in t'pub trade and I know what's up... how come most of the people on this thread "know t'pub trade" but can't work out why pubs are closing?.. I'll say it again.. I've never heard of a Wetherspoons pub closing down.. so what do they do right that some do wrong?

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

the greed of breweries has been going on fer many years,i worked a night a week in 2 pubs in the 90s, both landlords/landladies were friends of mine, did 6 years in 1, 3 years in the other, both had built the pubs up, after they were well quiet, the sole reason both parties left was the increase the breweries levied on em, but bad though things had got, fer my money, the smoking ban was the final nail in the coffin.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Is this the one?

Pub Fact Sheet - Mill Tavern

Sounds reasonable to me.But I agree there are many hidden costs that you don't get told about until you have been hooked.:(

Not least crippling business rates and council tax but then all retail outlets suffer from greedy councils.:confused::D:D

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

this link shows a one year contract for a pub in thwiates portfolio
http://www.danielthwaites.com/NR/rdo...COTPrecise.pdf

if you can get it if not visit their website and go to run your own pub and look at their aggreements on their web site all one sided you have a full tie you have yto use their stock taker your have to repair thier building up to a level inside and out and they charge you rent they are to blame for 70% of pubs shutting down the breweries

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

The Weatherspoon's pubs that I know - Bristol, Putney, Soho, and a few other places around UK do not brew. They grew very quickly and are now so big they dictate to the brewers or change brewers - they also tend to cater for the alkies in the area - captive market.
They only instituted a total smoking ban when it became law - prior to that the bar area was "No Smoking" - certainly the Bristol one outside of the "Corn Market" was.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Yes, that's the one although the costs on display don't tally exactly with what was offered in the renewal agreement. I'm not sure what terms the new tenants have but the offer made to the previous incumbents was not one that I would have happily signed up to.

As for tax rates, you'll have to take that up with South Ribble BC but, succeed or fail, there's only really one winner in this situation and it isn't the tenants or the council.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Even the clubs that put acts on are having a damned hard time of it. I've heard that The Brooks Club is up for sale, dont know if they are just rumours or not, but its been mentioned to me now by a couple of different sources!


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

I agree with you but the original thread blamed all brewery's for your own personal downfall.

What goes on between your "friend" and the brewery is nothing to do with me or indeed anyone else It is a contractual agreement.If he cannot reach an agreement then he must move on.

There are a lot of reasons for giving a good licensee the elbow but I'm not in the guessing game.

Sorry If I offended you I'm just a bit septic:dancedog:

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

You, septic:confused: are you having keyboard problems or was it an intended gaffe Beni:D

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Not at all I've got a boil on my bum.:eek::D:D

It's taken 3 years to get that one in.Thanks Jay.:D:D

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

I haven't suffered much at all, save a dip in the number of people who are currently turning up for games night which is neither here nor there for me.

However, the whole tone of the pub has changed and it has broken up that little community all for the sake of a bit of extra money in Marston's pot. Everyone was happy before and it was an absolute pleasure to walk through the door but now we're left with an experienced but disillusioned couple who have pulled out of the pub market and some disgruntled punters. Trade has taken a nosedive and takings must only be half of what they were before.

All pubs suffer a transitional shift between landlords but it was truly excellent before, packed to the rafters every night. Why mess with it by trying to screw more money out of a landlord when he's already tied to buying all his beer from you? The new tenancy agreement basically put him with the same money he was earning when he started but with four times the amount of work to do. I'd like to say that it's a unique situation that I'm blowing out of proportion but unfortunately I have witnessed it too many times now.

It isn't the government and it isn't (for the most part) the landlords that are doing the damage. Breweries, licencing companies, whatever you want to call them, it's their fault that the pubs are suffering and it will be Great Britain's loss in the end.

They can always turn round and blame taxes though, and people will believe them.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Funny enough Ken, i have always maintained, that the "Community" thing in pubs, the rot started when they opened em out, did away wi the vaults, snugs, games rooms, etc. that was when there was real community in boozers. may just be me, but what i reckon.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

You are bang on in there Cashy. The greatest mistake that the breweries made in the '70's and early '80's was to knock through the dividing walls in the mistaken belief that in so doing they could increase the sales psf - as in any retail operation. The problem was they never understood the alcohol market.

Old biddys and cloth capper's wanted to sup their halfs of muddy mild and Brandy and Bennys in the snug; the kids wanted to stick a tanner in the juke box and drink their lager while having a snog and a touch up in the best room and the lads wanted a game of darts and maybe watch the Match of the Day on a 17" black and white TV fin the taproom.

So all sorts could drink together under one roof. That is patently no longer the case - although with a few exceptions. Taken together with Thatcher's Beer Orders, the growth of uncontrolled booze sales in supermarkets and corner shops, non-alcohol consuming immigrants and the decline of heavy manufacturing (where employees had to replace sweat with booze) then it is really no surprise we see pubs closing everywhere.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Cheers T, thought perhaps twas just me, but its summat i have always maintained.;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Regrettably Cashy, those halcyon days are before my time but from listening to people it seems you have that one pretty much spot on.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

"halcyon days are before my time"

So you are relying upon hearsay?

How much hearsay do you rely upon?

The pubs in my youth were cozy places, as Cashy suggested, little or no rowdiness, virtually no aggro inside. Perhaps the open plan destroyed that but perhaps it was also the guidance and control of the youth that contributed to the demise of the family pub that myself and Cashy actually experienced.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Think that also was a small factor, i was on about where the rot started barrie, i.e. lost revenue fer landlords, many blokes used to pop in the vaults, lunch, n after work fer a hour, that revenue was lost in many cases,n there were many more boozers back then. perhaps the youth factor also worsened by the closure of dance halls, cinemas, youth clubs, leaving em little choice but those new "Open" pubs?:)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Not mad keen on Labour councillors, are you?

If enough people with experience of something tell me the same story then I'm inclined to believe it. Or would you prefer me to blindly stick to one perspective and not listen to evidence of any kind?

Hell's teeth, I'm with the wrong Hyndburn party....

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

I would rather put my trust inpeople who have first hand experience - not hearsay from a number of people who are likely to be personal friends and therefore have similar ideas, tastes and biases.
I do not support any particular political party - but if I did, it would probably be somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan.
IMHO all politicians are tarred with the same brush.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Hmmmm, when it used to be a corner pub on just about every street, we couldn't swing a cat, never mind be violent.

Unfortunately however instead of a pub being a place on your corner street where regulars & strangers, (on their best behaviour, also welcome), landlord in control of EVERYTHING, (including "you've had enough go home I'll see you tomorrow"), looking after folk.

We now have no locals, I for example have to go into town and mix with urine heads that have no manners, all of us lumped together, a pub used to be a pleasant well monitored place to go, now we have just a few making all the money, nobody is a regular anymore.


Strangely, we are now called 'binge' drinkers, no, my friend I just drink as much as I can before the idiots come out and take over.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Can you remember just why that actually happened Cashy? I've been told by several people that it was something that was brought in after we joined the "European Union" as its now called, and it was a European directive that said that all areas of the Pub should be in view by the people behind the bar area!...Not sure if thats just complete twaddle because i cant find any info about that, and after all there's plenty of quirky little "Brown Bars" in Belgium, and old fashioned bars in France too, but certainly things started to degenerate around that time!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

sorry Taggy no idea, in those days was usually too drunk to bother wi facts.:D

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

That's a load of bunkum Taggy I was knocking pubs to pieces in the early to mid seventies long before there were any such thing as European directives it was just a common trading market in those days, it was the breweries themselves who wanted to get away from the many small roomed pubs and making them in one big roomed ones it was part of the psychedelic era, with plastic plants and outlandish wall paper, I was there and saw what they did, brewery architects were a blood menace believe me

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Well thats what i'd have thought Jaysay..as i say i never saw owt in print to state that...but it did start to happen just around after we joined "Common Market" so perhaps thats were these daft ideas got picked up!...I know it was a ruddy mistake... first they knocked them all through and made then all "light & airey" using pine or oak...then decided they wanted to go back to traditional styling and dark wood again!! They also became a fan of split level areas...sticking ruddy steps into pubs where none were previously..great for older people n wheelchairs!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Knocked a few to pieces meself, but you got paid fer doin it.:D

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

...yeah, the Blockade was pretty "psychedelic" in its time...or so it seemed to me on some nights. ;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Only some nights?:confused: Part timer.:D;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Whateva happened to the Stuffed Fish?? :D

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Dunno...Isaac probably ate it. ;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

yep.i recall when people went to the nearest pub to the house they lived,maybe a jaunt round a few pubs then back to the local..i recall watching top of pops in the back room on early friday night .pork scracthings and all that !!!!

i like wetherspoons however and have vacated 45 different ones from penzance to glasgow.

times are not the same though of course .i just think people dont really go out midweek in basic pubs ( i dont much ) .we have sky,more tv,more leisure things,we are more choosy.
also a lot of pubs have shut in areas where asians live and the old guard have sold up and moved.
certainly on blackburn road to ossy is example. do you notice not a single pub from platts club till tinker in ossy :eek:
that must be a mile plus,with no pub on the main road where 30 years ago there used to be what 15 ? wow.maybe the likes cashy or many others could tell us how many pubs from platts club to tinker and budget 30 years ago ..i reckon a dozen plus ???

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Saw him down town the other day...still on Planet Issac...then walked up Ave Parade...and bumped in Vito...hadn't seen him in ages!...Time marches on!;)

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

just fer you spig.:D

1. Miners
2. Hyndburn inn
3. Antley
4. Oak tree
5. Church Commercial
6. Greyhound
7. Church conservative club.
8. Rosebud.
9. Station
10. Royal
11. Printers
12. Prince of wales
13. Horseshoe
14. Foxhill
15. Tinker, then fell down lol

P.S. actually 2 on that list i was never thrown out of .PMSL

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

...all you need now is to see Florrie and you've got the set! ;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

well done cashy..i thought 12 but only being in my late 40's i knew might be a couple more..although printers is still there fuelled by a gypsy brew i fear :D

prince of wales and horseshoe must be way back,where abouts where they ?

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

I seem em both in last 5 days isacc on church st, n florrie down dunc wi his dog.;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

they were all still open mid 60s.:)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

sure they were by in mid 60's i would have been about 3 year old
really though thanks for the list cash,top stuff :)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Makes you realise how things have changed when you put up a list like that Cashy doesn't it! I only started drinking in 1974 so i've been in most of those, the ones i havn't are Rosebud, Horseshoe, Prince of Wales and i think the Station. Would those all have closed by 74?

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

think horseshoe n prince of wales had gone then,rosebud also was a police sub station built were that stood, not sure about station as i played darts fer em in 60s n got barred the season they won the league:eek: so never went near again.

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Said it before and will say it again , we need someome with computer skills to set up an interactive map to show all the pubs/clubs/ bars that used to be in Accy ....going from 'downtown' along Blackburn Rd. to Church Commercial and then up Union Rd to the Black Dog ......... a long list I know , sure one of our Accy web users has the necessary skills and will volunteer their efforts , sure the prson to does this will get lots of extra karma for their effort . Thanks ;) ;)

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

Could be a task for the research department:rolleyes:

Re: The Greed of the Breweries
 

We are too busy trying to keep what few pubs are left open, we haven't time to reminisce about pubs gone by, we soaked a few hankies at the time of their closing, but they are never going to return so we would rather block the memory than open old wounds once more.
:(