Apology
 

The British Prime Minister has made an open apology to the innocent victims who were killed during the protests on what has been is known as "Bloody Sunday".. no doubt about it innocent people were killed.
I'd like to know how the members on here who have openly stated they do not believe any present government should apologise for the mistakes made by Governments in the past... I point to some who kicked up as fuss when the Government apologised for the mass murder this country carried out during the slave trade.. and those who complianed when the Government apologised for the kids we sent to be abused in Australia... what do you say now??

Re: Apology
 

My thoughts ,maybe I'm contradicting myself but ... the slavery apology was wrong , not one British citizen for 5 or 6 generations has had anything to do with slavery.
the Australian kids apology was correct , it went to the living, the only thing wrong with it was the delay in it being carried out , it was swept under the carpet by the civil servants and politicians for so long to protect the guilty parties that they were allowed to spend their last years living in comfort on fat pensions and never made to face up to the harm they did.
The "Bloody Sunday" in my opinion is wrong, they should be glad only 13 got killed , if things had got 'hotter' the numbers would have been a lot higher and probably some of the troops would have ended up like the London cop who was macheted to death by another mob .

Re: Apology
 

It sits better than many of the previous apologies because it happened within Great Britain and it is an event within living memory.

Unfortunately, what generally happens in these situations is that any number of 'traumatised' relatives come out of the woodwork for compensation. Tragedy though it was, the Hillsborough families were on the case not two weeks ago claiming around £25k each for mental stress. It was another awful event but how long do these guilt trips last? That one has already been unequivocably apologised for several times.

It sounds rather heartless but apologising for every last misdemeanour in British history is leaving yourself wide open to abuse in the end.

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I think that when considering if an apology is appropriate or not, one has to consider "incidents" on a case by case basis. In the case of bloody sunday, I don't think that an apology is appropriate. There was no government policy that led to the incident, which can appropriately be termed "isolated". The British public, whom the government represents, had no involvement. Compare it to what happened in Europe under the Nazis; the whole apparatus of government and the majority of the population combined to give the world the horrors of mass extermination of Jews, Poles, Russian civilians and POWs, Gypsies, etc., etc. And from what I see of the Krauts, they don't seem to be all that abjectedly apologetic for causing the deaths of tens, maybe hundreds of millions. A quote from Marlowe would be appropriate here, but I'll spare you the pedantry. However, quite rightly, the Government of Canada has apologised to First Nations people for the abuses in the residential schools. The government did not intend that children in residential schools be abused, but it was their policies, aimed at erradicating First Nations' culture that put the children at risk.

But I do think that this whole apology fad has gone way too far. It's a convenient and popular bandwagon which gives the PC crowd the opportunity to feel good about themselves, and pat themselves on the back for being holier than me and you.

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I still stand by what I said previously you can't apologise for things that happened years ago, the people, if there was an apology necessary are long gone. Inquires such as the one just undertaken lasting 12 years and cosing £200 million is still a he says she say exercise

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Don't see why any government should apologise for something it had nothing to do with. Whatever the shortcomings of the present government, most of 'em were probably attending school, when the Bloody Sunday incident took place.

I would, however, like to see Blair and his odious henchmen apologise for the deaths of British servicemen and others in Iraq, caused by their contemptible decision to go to war...wouldn't you, Mancie?

Re: Apology
 

What don't sit right wi me,is the simple fact, the British Goverment have apologised fer Bloody Sunday, yet Mcguiness n Adams have been rewarded fer being responsible fer slaughtering MANY more oer the troubles, Wheres there apology?:mad: nowhere, they have been rewarded wi a nice office, nice salary,good job etc etc n NO GUILT.:mad: this country is pathetic. IMHO.

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Politicians lie all the time - apologies mean nothing - it's just a public relations gesture entitled -
'placation of the masses'

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Exactly, just tell the public what they want the hear, well some of them:rolleyes:

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Well no doubt there will be a public inquiry Wyn, costing millions and find out absolutely nothing that we don't already know, governments of all colours waste money faster than a demented woman on the loose with her husbands credit card, shortly before she leaves him :D

Re: Apology
 

I wonder if Martin Mc Guiness will now instigate and enquiry into all the atrocites that were wreaked by the IRA....and whether he will issue an apology for the innocent who were killed in the many bombings......Manchester and Brighton spring immediately to mind.
Like Jaysay, I stick by my original feelings on these apologies.......they mean nothing, because they were not issued by those who were responsible for the crime......and they devalue the impact of a true apology.

Re: Apology
 

We're still waiting for an apology from the Angles, Saxons, Romans, Normans, and Vikings, who unlwafully invaded our country, raping and pillaging as they went.

Some people have no manners.

Re: Apology
 

Where is the apology from the IRA and offshoot organisations and members - for the civilians, including children, and of course our troops, that they murdered.
Perhaps Adams and McGuinness would set the example and get the ball rolling.

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i read about this last night .. from someone who is of northern irish descent .. my parents both came from county armagh .. i just hope now that the enquiry has finished and the result known .. that the family members think that its enough to know that they were innocent and not to go after the soldiers to prosecute them. Its cost a lot of money this enquiry .. and i can quite honestly say that most people will say what could they have done with that money .. rather than pay a load of solicitors etc for the enquiry.. but its finished now all we need is the PIRA, UVF, INLA, UDF etc to come out and apologise for all the atrocities they did .. They never will .. but it would be nice for them to do it .. and maybe just maybe .. if they ever get the guts to do that .. Northern Ireland will be at peace.

Re: Apology
 

are you suggesting that the families of the dead rioters should recieve monetry compensation ? (sorry if i'm reading your post the wrong way)
:confused: :confused:

Re: Apology
 

nope .. what im saying is now let it rest .. dont go after the soldiers to prosecute em .. they've got what they wanted they were proved to be innocent .. and now to let them rest in peace ..

i meant the money it cost to hold the enquiry ...

Re: Apology
 

SHYLOCK:
The pound of flesh which I demand of him Is deerely bought, 'tis mine, and I will haue it.

It should have been left in the past !! Now, will the Murderers reciprocate ???

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Prosecute the soldiers! Don't tell me that this was actually considered:eek: or is being considered. Anyone remember "Apocalypse Now" ... and the line that went something like: arresting someone for murder in this mess is like handing out speeding tickets at Indianapolis. Sheesh, gimme a break.

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Yes, I am sure that I heard that a file would be sent to the DPP in Ireland for them to decide whether to prosecute the Paras.

Re: Apology
 

That could well be the case, here's the report, chapters 14,15 & 16, seem to be the most indicative of these intentions.

Saville pins the blame for Bloody Sunday on British soldiers - Home News, UK - The Independent

Re: Apology
 

What a can of worms to open. Lots of relatives and injured people could well be suing Sinn Fein and the IRA - I hope.
When you are in a combat zone and you hear the first round fired you look for a possible target and fire at it. You pray to your God that you have made the right decision maybe, but when you realise it is all over you thank Him that you are still alive and that maybe you got the enemy.

Re: Apology
 

I know what you meant, about the money.

It's bought some quite a few feathers, to furnish their lavish nests.


Bloody Sunday rich list: Country houses, French estate, and wealth of the lawyers who charged fees of £100m | Mail Online

Re: Apology
 

YouTube - the british soldier

Gives you an idea of the times.
Maybe it was an operational mistake....if so apology given.
Maybe it was a reaction....................??????????????????.

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Oh sorry, forgot, what was that about mcguiness and an SMG?

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So they try them pour encourager les autres, and those who set policy and had the responsibility for command get off scot free:eek: ... seems like there is no shortage of bs over there, with the real culprits probably covering their asses big time.

Re: Apology
 

I don't think there's any harm done by making apologies for events, when it has been made clear that a Government, or any person has committed what has been found to be a crime.
As far as the Iraq war goes, it was/is a war and I don't recall anyone apologising for any wars.
I am not taking the side of rioters and support our troops but we should at least apologise when innocent people are killed..even if it is by mistake.

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How many innocents did the I.R.A. kill mancie? a damn site more n there leaders don't make apologies, but GET REWARDED. so why should the brits have to?:eek:

Re: Apology
 

two wrongs don't make a right.. the IRA were murdering scum no better than Al-qauda...if any of them did make an apology it may be, I say may be, a small comfort to the relatives of those killed simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Bloody Sunday was 1 wrong n have great sympathy fer those who lost people, but sorry the I.R.A. had 100s of wrongs, so it don't wash at all wi me.

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Why should the government apologise for something it had nothing to do with? By contrast, the previous Labour government had everything to do with the totally unjustified invasion of Iraq which led to the deaths of British servicemen. What a pity your red blinkers blind you to the injustice of that.

Re: Apology
 

To be honest even without an inquiry, I think most people have known for years that most of those shot on that day were people who had got caught up in a situation that got out of anyones control.. mistakes made and ended in deaths... but the wrong people ended up dead.
I think the apology is in order if only to aknowledge that those shot were not IRA members.. the real culprits got away.. a tragic mistake.

Re: Apology
 

There ain't no blinkers here..the report on Bloody Sunday has been ongoing for years.. should this Government apologise for sinking of the Belgrano?..to my mind no as it was in an act of war.. mind you that was a Tory Government.. not the Lib-Dem we have now.;)

Re: Apology
 

It seems to be a British trait - glorify the ex-terrorists - Makarios, Kenyatta. Mugabe, McGiunness & Adams. If any of the troops should be arraigned then so should the latter two, and prhaps also Blair & Brown for taking the country into, and continuing with two illegal wars.
As the IRA fought against the law of the land - and therefore the Queen, is that not treason?
Don't think it was too long ago that the death penalty was abolished for treason and piracy.

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Surely you're not trying to compare the Falklands and Iraq, are you? In the former, we went to war to defend British territory and more importantly, British subjects from occupation by a fascist military junta. In the latter, Iraq posed no threat to us at all (despite being ruled by a bloodthirsty dicatator) and we went to war in order to pursue our foreign policy of meekly trotting behind the yanks. Hardly comparable.

Re: Apology
 

You forgot Mandela.;)

Re: Apology
 

So after all the bleating & the contrition by the Government only a couple of days ago now this !!

Hundreds evacuated after security alert in Northern Ireland - Crime, UK - The Independent

Like most people have been saying, we shouldn't have apologised.

Re: Apology
 

Yes i did and I offer my apologies for the ommission as he was ultimately responsible for a great number of horrendous murders - his own tribe, Zulu, and whites. Which leads me to ask a question - are any of these countries better off (the general population), than they were under Colonial Rule?

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Well yes, but only as far both were wars.. like it or not it makes little difference, you can pick and choose which war you like or dislike but troops and civilians are going to be killed.. to carp on about Blair or Bush or any leader to apologise for a war is not going to happen.. that does not mean we cannot say sorry for killing innocent people.. but then that's just my opinion.

Re: Apology
 

I suppose the answer to your question is ...... who's fault is it that "British Africa" is in the state its in .......in my opinion its the fault of succesive British Govts. beginning with the infamous "Winds of Change " speech made by Prime Minister Harold Macmillon , which signaled the abandoment of our 'responsibilities' . We just pulled out leaving the native populations to manage for themselves in a world of which they had no knowledge ..... and then we acted all surprised when folks like Idi Amin, Mugabe,Kenyatta or Mandela popped up . Don't get me wrong the British weren't the only ones who made a collosal mistakes , anyone remember Emporer Bokassa of the "Central African Empire" or Mobutu in Zaire and his brother-in-law Holden Roberto in Angola

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Oi, Mancie, what's all this reasonableness about?..."but then that's just my opinion"?!!?...I was expecting a full-on "imperialist, running dog, capitalist scum" type rant! Are you coming down with something? ;)

Re: Apology
 

Could be the DTs Wyn:D

Re: Apology
 

No Wyn it's like I said in another thread (Dipsticks) this is "New Mancie" & I really do believe he should be encouraged. :)

As to who's to blame SJ, I wouldn't consider the governments at fault, all these parts of the Empire were adamant enough that the British Imperialism & Colonialism had run its course, they wanted their Independence & self rule which they duly got by peaceful or non peaceful means.

They then appointed their own leaders & governance, so the blame lays squarely on their own shoulders as the old adage goes, "Be careful what you wish for-you just might get it !". well they got it right enough, then they have the temerity to turn around & demand that Britain apologise or give some sort of recompense & this 40-50 years after the fact !! No the problems can all be laid at their own door not ours.


Incidentally it doesn't just apply to the British although my main point was about our part in all this, France, Belgium, Holland & Germany all spring to mind when you think about European Colonialism. Even the good old US of A aren't entirely blameless, they've also dipped their toes into the pond of colonisation ! But then with only being a young nation you don't have our long & colourful history.

Re: Apology
 

And so it begins, I think the government will very soon regret their insistence on this apology kick.

Were Bloody Sunday soldiers involved in 'Ballymurphy massacre'? | UK news | The Observer

Re: Apology
 

I'm sure the Romans though independence would leave us a little adrift too, when we were no longer part of their empire.

Though the Dark Ages weren't all that bad.

:D

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Didn't realise you were that old G:D

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My first memories go right back to the primeval swamp.

The Dark Ages were like yesterday.

;)

Re: Apology
 

So twas you who made the Guinness Ad then:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OjkEOdZj3A:D

Re: Apology
 

I did say it wasn't all down to us !

Archbishop of York: young black generation should not blame Britain - Telegraph