Where is the fight back?
 

The Tories are about to mash this country up.. but were is the opposition?.. it's no good working out the next Labour leader and saying nowt.. or has this country, and it's people, accepted that the newspapers control political issues.. whatever the Sun or the Mail say goes.. they say we have to/must make massive cuts.. does anyone sit back and get the feeling they have been conned?

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

was wondering that meself, i expect em to open their useless gobs after the budget, but aint holding me breath.:rolleyes:

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

At last..some sense.. and I ain't creepin.. on the run up to the election we all had a good old carp about the wrongs n rights..but I suppose it's all abit boring

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I think at this present moment in time the Labour party are to busy cutting niches & making alignments amongst themselves to really focus on opposition just yet. Once all the tales are told & they've finished squealing on one another (who said what, didn't agree with that, totally against this !) then maybe they can attempt opposition.

Still after their behavior in the past & the general attitude to politics & politicians in general amongst the everyday folk, it may take some time before they become a viable option. Sorry Mancie, but that's how I see it as a neutral & I believe many others think the same due to their tawdry attitude to peoples concerns.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Come on, Mancie, what's up with you? You're a shadow of your former self, lad!

What about something on the lines of...We are now witnessing the final death throes of the capitalist, imperialist military-industrial complex, as its bourgeois henchmen and lickspittle collaborators seek to enslave the noble proletariat, extinguishing the spirit of egalitarianism that burns brightly in the hearts of the working classes. Comrades! Now is the time to man the barricades and storm the citadels of the evil money barons, seizing the means of production and establishing a socialist paradise in the true spirit of Marx, Lenin and Engels blah blah…

You, know, the sort of thing. Come on Mancie, give us a rant! ;)

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

he hasn't had enough to drink yet........

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Or he is still digesting the latest revelations concerning Diane Abbot, Harriet Harman and Sarah Brown?

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I suspect that you have been visiting some of the forums that I am a member of.
..and I thought I was the only reactionary/communist/anarchist/conspiracy theorist in the village:rolleyes:

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Too much time spent verbally abusing the Socialist Workers (a classic contradiction in terms) Party deadbeats in Piccadilly Gardens, more like! They make a change from the Godbotherers sometimes. ;)

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

The 'emergency' budget presents a different approach to a problem and there are actually some very sensible cuts being made but the rise in VAT is something of a mistake, in my opinion.

There should have been a bigger levy on the banks (which is what they were calling for when in opposition) and the benefits system is still open to abuse. Radical reforms are called for rather than simply cuts.

My first action if I ever become Grand Overlord of the Whole Universe would be a nationalised bank, amalgamated with the Post Office, to solve a swathe of problems in one fell swoop.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Bloody hell Wyn thats a gob full even for Mancie:D

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Yea that's always puzzled me too Wyn, there was one guy that used to write to the Obs and signed himself the Socialist Workers Party, he actually dropped the name and changed to the Socialist Party of Great Britain when it was pointed out that he hadn't worked for 20 years:rolleyes:

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

The thing with VAT Ken is that everybody pays it and those more well off and spend more pay more. I agree with your on the benefits system, but radical changes can't be done at one stroke of the pen, Hasn't the coalition brought Alan Hutton (former Labour Minister) in to look at what can be don't, which to me is a positive step. I have no problem with those in need getting the help they require, but we all know at least two or three people who are swinging it and have been doing for years, in some cases living on benefits runs through generations, with these people having no intentions of ever working if they can get away with it, unfortunately these instances are far more rife than people realise

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I fully understand the reasoning behind it and on paper it does make sense but in essence VAT has now gone up 5% in a year. I know that's figure-fiddling but it is sort of true. It also means that people will be more inclined to tighten their belts and warnings of a double-dip recession are not entirely without merit.

62 million people are now paying a heavy price for the greed of a few hundred bankers, where is the nasty levy on them? 8bn over 4 years between them?

Cheers Gideon, that'll show 'em.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Thats were the "Real Cuts" should be.:rolleyes:

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

"62 million people are now paying a heavy price for the greed of a few hundred bankers, where is the nasty levy on them? 8bn over 4 years between them?"

Why weren't they sorted out before they got us into this financial mess?

Oh, sorry, that was Tony and Gordon and Alistair who didn't get to grips with it all. Anyway we can blame the new government for what it is costing us - even the money spent to place more of a burden on the incoming government - because sure as apples are apples, the populace was not going to trust Gordon and his cohorts any longer.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Steady young Kenneth or we could be calling foul here :) The increase of 5% is a slight wobble of the truth now isn't it ? a gentle reminder possibly ?

HM Revenue & Customs: Accounting for VAT when the standard rate of VAT returned to 17.5 per cent

So in actual fact the Coalition have raised it by 2.5%, agreed :o For shame !! And you a locally elected member too :D Still I suppose if you want to mix it with the "Big Boys" you have to learn to play by their rules I suppose.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Hmm....by my calculations, the % increase in VAT is 14.28.

Old Rate = 17.5p levied on each £1.00 net sale.

New Rate = 20p levied on each £1.00 net sale.

% increase from 17.5 to 20 = 14.28.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I think you misunderstand the regressive nature of the VAT, and sales taxes in general. If all spending were discretionary, then you might have a point; however, spending is not based on shopoholic whims. Rich and poor alike need food and shelter, even poor kids would like the odd gift at Christmas, and warm clothing in winter. That the poor are taxed at the same rate as the rich for the necessities of life is an obscenity that appears equitable only to tories. And still, the only good tory is a suppository.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I'm thinking I'm paying/contributing more than my fair share when I pay 20% tax ($8) on a $40 steak dinner plus tip, than someone paying 60 cents tax on a $3 value meal (double cheeseburger, fries and a coke) at McDonalds (no tip) .
Would also like to think I am adding to the economy with my $40 steak since the restaurant also has to employ folks to wash and iron the 'white' table cloths , wait staff, bus-'boys' and dish washers.

Incidentally some of us also care about the environment and disposable plastic eating implements and paper plates just dont pass muster so thats why I use hole in the wall 'mom and pop ' diners if I need a fast food fix . ;)

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I would hazzard that this response is more about politics than it is about economics.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

The reason there is not wholesale attack on the Banks is in your own argument Ken a double dip recession, the problems was the lifting of bank restrictions by Gordon and his chums, the decision on bank levies will have been taken under consultation with the Bank of England

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

God only knows what you think of the financial incompetents who have got use in this mess in the first place, the trouble is the good people of GB ever learn, Labour do it every time they're in power, then leave the hard decisions to others to clear up after them. Anybody seen Gordon since the 6th of May, no me neither:mad:

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

it don't need the bank of england to tell anyone these thieves, are earning bonuses fer crucifying the country.:(

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I think its a tad more complicated than that now cashy

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

it is, but as the Banks had to be bailed out through stupidity, they to my mind should be FIRST to pay the piper, not ordinary people.:rolleyes:

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I think they'll get their justs in time, by the fact that they will be tighter regulated than ever before;)

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

It's like we've been looked after by some trippy hippies, who gave us everything we wanted.

Unfortunately mum and dad are back now, and are having to pay for all the damage to the wrecked house.

I did try to warn those daft hippies not to post that we were having an open house, on social network sites, knowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry would crash the party.

:rolleyes:

:D

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Didn't know that Mancies first name was either Tom Dick or Harry :D

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

I know, that's why I stated that it was fiddling the figures...;)

However, of all the cuts and increases I think this will be the killer.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

If you think I'm going to bury my head in the sand and state that mistakes weren't made by the Labour government then you'll be disappointed. The recession is a global problem and the root cause came from America, it's just a pity that we didn't have a more stringent system over here to cushion the blow. Guilty as charged.

However, the banks have caused the problem so tax the sodding banks, not the man at the coal face. George Osborne has been bleating that we all need to pay the price for the recession but millions of people up and down the country were nothing to do with it and those who saved prudently are now being hammered while the banks walk away with a pitifully tiny levy.

As I said, some sensible cuts are being made but if anyone can stand up and say with impunity that the banks have not got away lightly then let me hear them speak.

Re: Where is the fight back?
 

Well, I've come late into this conversation, (Been busy trying to find a bigger hole to bury my savings & other such bullshine), but so far, this seems to be the best quote in the whole thread.

Thank goodness, the Conservatives haven't dumped everything onto the less well off, or have they?...(small print, magnifying glass needed?), or maybe the Liberals have kept them in line? (Nah, only there to make up the numbers).

At least they seem to be more tolerant of the less well off than Maggie ever was!

(Wasn't going to mention that Bitch but what the hey? Anything against her gets green karma from Mancie so I'm on a winner).
:)