There's something very wrong here
 

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There is something very wrong with our system, when this is allowed to happen:mad::mad::mad:

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

A few months ago you started this thread
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...tml#post806048

I replied then thus -
National Assistance (now Income Support) once had a payment limit known as
The Wage Stop.
This was a very complex calculation that we civil servants dreaded having to do.
The basis of it was the wage of a local council labourer.

Applying it ensured that where a large number of children would cause the 'normal' calculation to provide for a high rate of payment of National Assistance, then this Wage Stop would limit it to what that family could receive if the 'breadwinner' was employed as a council labourer.

After studies into 'child poverty', that rule was abolished in 1975

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

If you design a system where people are better off not working don't be suprised if people don't bother to go to work

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Well fine Margaret but when a guy turns down £500 a week job because he gets more in handouts, ain't it time to stop his benefits and make the dozy sod get off his arse and take the blood job:mad:

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Wholesale reform, wholesale reform.....

The country is on its knees because more was coming out than was being put back in and yet here we are with a gaping flaw in the system which no one seems to want to fix because of human rights issues.

The system is inherently wrong and sooner or later we're going to hit serious problems. Virtually everyone on my street is not working for one reason or another and yet they all seem to live more active social lives than I can afford to do.

Either I've got it right by working for everything I own or I've got it spectacularly wrong.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

how the kin ell does he get over £500 a week in benefits? thats mad

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

I can agree with you to a certain degree Ken, but not everybody is a scrounger, there are 2.5 million people receiving incapacity benefits of some sort or other in this country, yet when the reform or the welfare system was muted by the present government Labour and Mancie shout they were attacking the most vulnerable in society. I happen to be one of those 2.5 Million and I have no qualms what-so-ever of going before any doctor or tribunal to verify my poor health, and neither should anybody else. Anybody who is receiving state benefits because of incapacity have nothing to worry about, its only those (who we regularly read about in the press and see on TV news reports) who are swinging it that need to be concerned and we all know there are plenty of those ;)

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Of course not John, and apologies if you think I'm trying to imply that everyone on benefits is a scrounger, but if you can happily trot to the off licence every 'pay day' and get into very loud fights at 2am on Saturday night, waking up everyone on the street up in the process, you can bloody well work for a living.

Having met you, I don't think there is a soul alive who would tell you to get off your lazy backside and earn your crust. You're a genuine case and there are plenty of them in England. I have a bloke from Rishton working on my house at the moment who is skilled and doing a fine job but going out of his mind sat at home every day with no regular income.

Those are the people I feel truly sorry for and who the system should be there to support. Anyone who refuses three suitable job offers should be denied benefits and the system should be reformed so that sitting at home can no longer be classed as carrying on the family business.

The marvellous Disability Living Allowance has allowed thousands of able-bodied people to swing the lead whilst tarring the genuinely disabled with a bad name.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

We are definitely both singing from the same hymn sheet Ken

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Someone who genuinely wants the job will get the opportunity if it is left though. Why let someone who doesn't appreciate it have it when there are loads of people desperate to find work.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

The real Problem wi these kinda cases that were quoted in the thread start is to my mind "The Main Political Parties" none have,or will get off there arses n tackle what irks most decent folk, the direct fact they don't feeds the B.N.P. who are nowt but destestable thugs putting on a decent face, many see right through em, but the numpties take there crap on board n vote fer em, a recession is the perfect platform fer em to flourish, prey on fears, wind em up n ya got a bigger following, seem to remember in history, "Hitler" doin a similar thing back in the 30s, so no-one can argue it don't work. our political leaders from all the big 3 are too numb to see it.:rolleyes:

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

It's unreal.. if people get anywhere near £500 a week in benifits it must be a special case, or someone is telling lies..examples of these "freeloaders" have been in the fashion with the media over the last few months.. "bash the hard up" ..but at the same time praise those on less than £6 an hour for thier contribution to the economy, the future for the skilled men and women in this country will be grim.. the sweat shop of Europe is back.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

You totally miss the Point as usual blazey, to turn down £500 a week because he can get more on benefits is outrageous to say the least, its bad enough when people can't work, but when they are quite able and turn down the job to carry on taking tax payers money, its obscene

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

No I didn't miss that point, I just didn't comment on it. I wouldn't force him into the job because I know that there are many willing and able people who would rather be considered for it and would only end up being like him if they were to find out that someone like him was more preferential for the job.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Oh and I'd just stop his benefits. If he's considered fit enough to work through trying to force him into a job then there is no reason he should even be entitled to that much anyway.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

'Please give me a job!' Unemployed man bags job on the spot after standing in the rain for hours with sign | Mail Online

Maybe this is the way forward?! Well done to this bloke for thinking of something different to get him noticed!!! :D

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Can just picture all lined up on the roundabout in accy viaduct!!!! :)

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

So, am I to assume that if a welfare recipient refuses a job then, in the UK, he keeps his benefits:confused: Weird.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Well he shouldn't do, but he probably as rights Eric:rolleyes: and a legal eagle willing to fight his corner;)

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Problem I see with stories like this is that those of a particular political stance ... ok, reactionary right-wingers, use them to attack the whole idea of social security and welfare. I do believe that there are sensational extremes, but I don't think they should be used to attack a system which gives real benefit to those in real need. Back in '95, when the suppositories took over government in Ontario, their first act was to cut general welfare payments, across the board, by 26%! This was followed, not surprisingly, by an increase in petty crime, particularly shoplifting (esp. of food). Any solution to the problems of the system should be addressed non-ideologically. Instances of individuals ripping off the taxpayer should, I believe, be addressed on a case by case basis, and that the excesses of the few should not be allowed to threaten the security of the majority, who really need support.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Its not a matter of attacking Social security and welfare Eric, we see it time after time on TV and in the media people milking the system when there is nothing wrong with them. There are 2.5 million people on disability benefits and as such should have no qualms about justifying their right to claim those benefits

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Nope ... still don't like it ... and I still believe that tory parties will use sensationalist stories and vague statements like "we see it time after time" and "milking the system" as a prelude to attacking the poor and those who need help. Ok ... those who abuse the system should, as they do here, face another system: criminal justice. But I will never believe that millions should have to "[justify] their right to claim ... benefits", because of the inevitable abuse by a minority.

I remember reading a comment, years ago, before the net:eek:, when Thatcher was in power. It went something like: "Thatcher isn't a rascist. She hates poor people whatever color they are."

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

I absolutely agree.
The problem of abuse is exaggerated/publicised.
The 'people' demand a solution.
....and the solution is
benefit cuts for EVERYBODY

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Nailed it bang on, trouble is the media brainwash the numpties into thinking the minority is a majority.:rolleyes:

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Maybe we see one or two cases a week reported in the newspapers were some bod or family is claiming benifits they do not deserve.. one or two the percentage is not even worth trying to work out...let's get things clear, the need to make cuts have little to do with who deserves what.. weeding out the very minute proportion of those that are "scrounging" will save little ..the only way to make massive cuts in social benifits is to transfer those who are already on a poverty rated income to an even lower income...it's simple,, if you can walk you are fit for work and from what I've heard you will get around £65 per week instead of something like £85..

This is more of the same old rubbish economics the Tories have dished out over the last 100yrs... they talk big on abolishing Quangos, but in less than 3 months they have set up over 25 "commisions" at a cost of billions to work out the best means to make cuts.
I'm surprised we have not got to the stage were we attack single women with kids.. maybe they are saving that as back up.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

There wouldn't need to be cuts at all if, over the last 13 years this country had been run right, instead of throwing tax payers money around like confetti and when the tax money ran out they started borrowing like there was no tomorrow, well tomorrow as come and after years of reckless sending its got to be paid back and as usual the culprits have sailed into the wind to coin it in writing their memoirs, funny really theres only you and your ilk can't see it, or better still don't want to

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Actually you'd lose job seekers allowance if you turned down a job and the job centre became aware of it. Not too sure about other forms of benefit though as they're not necessarily dependent on employment.

I've never really been interested in employment and benefits rules and regulations, I imagine one of the people who has worked at the job centre before will have a better idea about it?

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Sorry John, although you make a valid point I must point out that Peter Britcliffe is doing exactly the same thing this year. His budget for 2010-2011 outlines plans to increase Hyndburn's percentage of variable rate loans from 60% to 100% during the current global economic climate, meaning that even half a percent increase will massively increase council debt. He's currently crowing about making £1.9m of savings (which he hasn't, if you look at the figures) and yet is about to saddle whoever gets control of the council next May with a collossal bill that we don't need.

Still, the public won't know any different, why not just say it's 13 years of Labour government?

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

I really don't buy this line of argument (if you weren't such a nice guy, I'd say it was a crock of horse manure;):D). You are suggesting that the state of the British economy is solely a result of bad government by Labor. It is, however, plainly a result of the recent global economic crash, possibly exacerbated by government profligacy. But the economic crisis was caused by the greed, criminal in some cases, of the right-wing leaders of the major banks and financial institutions. What you seem to be suggesting is that a party of the left caused the problem, and, perhaps, by extension, it is left wing thinking that is at its root. Then how can we account for what happened in the US? Their economy took as big a shlt-kicking as yours, and under an ultra right wing government. Nah, I really can't go along with this ideological argument for why the UK economy is in trouble.

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

Okay there's been a recession Eric, but the fact that we were the first in and last out, mainly because Flash Gordon was more interested in his own world status and tried to save the world single handed. The fact that Labour inherited the best economic figures of any incoming government in our history, and left us with the biggest debt in peace time history speaks volumes. They deregulated the Banks sold off our assets and still made a dogs breakfast of it. Oh and by the way your a nice guy too Eric:D

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

naughty naughty:D.. that's not quite accurate...this recession started in the USA and judging by the economic figures reported this week the British economy grew far more than any other European country in the last months of the Labour Government..as for the last Government "inheriting the best economic figures in history" if you think 3 million unemployed, an officail child poverty rate of 20%, and empoyees paying as little as £1.50 per hour as good economics, then you really are hardcore Tory.:eek:

Re: There's something very wrong here
 

The figures were for the three month period from April to June. April there was no government and people all over the world knew Labour were a goner, for May and June we had the coalition and that's when the economy started to take of, it meant people were rejoicing because Gordon and his little Darling had gone;)