September 11th....
 

I don't think we'll ever forget what happened 3 years ago.
Here is a very moving tribute video.
Tis a bit upsetting mind you, but nothing we haven't already seen.

http://www.freedomrings.us/Tribute.html

Re: September 11th....
 

That vidio brought a lump to my throat
and tears to my eyes.
It was excellent.
People all over the world.
Will never going to forget that fatefull day.

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Wow, thats an amazing tribute, isnt it sad how soon we forget those images.

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As Anne said, "People all over the world will never forget that fateful day" myself included, but did I hear right that at present, there are "hundreds" of British policemen attending a service in New York? If it's true, Why the Police and who is paying expenses? I am not making light the tragedy that befell New York that day and I know that Brits died as well as Americans and people from many parts of the world, but 3 years is not the "normal" timespan for a national remembrance service.
I can fully understand a service being held each year in remembrance and would expect a contingency to be sent on the 10th/20th/25th Anniversary.....but why the 3rd? I can only assume that large groups like the police will travel every year 4th/5th etc.
I know I sound cynical but I bet that the majority of those that went were of high ranking, not your average "bobby on the beat!"
Apart from my moan Roy, Nice one for bringing this subject up at an appropriate time!

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I don't think anyone will ever forget those terrible images. I remember being at work when the newsflashes came on and the whole ward went silent. No babies cried, nobody spoke and everybody was just staring at the tv in disbelief. I'll never forget the image of the plane crashing into the 2nd tower and the sight of people jumping from windows.

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thanks Roy its still very fresh in my mind it was absolutley terrible its still fresh in my mind and my heart goes out to all the familys and all who had to witness it. It should never have happened and we still no closer to knowing why i just got my fingers crossed it wont happpen again i think its amazing how all those people can unite together to help each other it just shows what we can do when the need is there. This is said with hope my childeren never have to witness anything like this in their lifetime but i think that would be asking to much. Thanks again Roy may they all rest in peace Bless em...

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thanks roy..that was a very moving video and brings back what a sad day it was for a lot of familys around the world...

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The papers answered my questions this morning. 360 police went to NY and they paid their own way! My apologies.:o Also, the reason for the service this year was that the site of the twin towers is about to be built on. I must try not to be so cynical in future!

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Busman, I think it is very normal to be cynical these days, considering that under normal circumstances, governments, councils, and any big institution like the police, health and fire services waste a shedload of tax payers money on a daily basis.:)

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I just didn't believe it was happening at the time - and I didn't realise the enormity of the event. The horrible truth though - is that these kind of things happen all the time, and we shouldn't tolerate small terrorists acts in poorer countries anymore than a huge terrorist act in America.

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A very moving tribute site;I read today that the terror strike is still claiming victims,many emergency workers are now suffering illnesses caused by the inhalation of fumes/dust on that day.The article stated potentially thousands of people may be affected in the coming years.
No wonder America is seeking those responsible and those who support them!

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Sad to say not all feel the same way. Headlines in one of today's newspapers announce that British extremist Anjem Choudary praised the attacks on the twin towers, calling those responsible "magnificent hijackers".

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"British extremist" - love it. Why do we allow fartknockers like Choudary the privilige of British nationality/citizenship - arrest him and his cronies then boot them out of the country, sell his 4-bedroomed semi-detached house in the leafy Surrey suburbs and Range Rover funded by the British taxpayer and give the proceeds to a 9/11 victims charity.

I turned up for tea at my fathers house after work and both him and his spouse were stood watching 9/11 on the news and I knew straight away that something very bad had happened as my dad isnt really a TV person - the only other times I'd seen him engrossed in front of the box was when Chernobyl exploded and the Space Shuttle blew up. After an initial reaction of "What the ....?" I asked if they had heard from my brother who was in Boston for four months on a Uni exchange and had told me before he left that he wanted to fly down to NYC for a day or so - Boston being the airport where one of the planes took off from, even though I knew the chances of him deciding to visit on that day at that time on that plane were slim there was still a chance and until I heard from him later it was a worry to say the least.

There is a DVD called 9/11 made by two French documentary makers (also brothers) who were filming with a FDNY crew for two months following a rookie on his first weeks on the job. For the first 6 weeks there was no 'action' - routine things like cats in tree and they were talking about cancelling the entire project until 9/11. They were actually inside the towers when they collapsed and it is all on film - amazingly powerful and moving stuff, it will make you weep with both sadness and anger.

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What a difference...................

As some of you will know, I only lived in the Accrington area until I was ten years old when my family moved to Southport. I visit a site similar to this in Southport. You would not believe the difference in the people that 30 odd miles can make. On that site there is so much anti-American feeling and people are on there saying that they are sick of hearing about 9/11 and why can't the Americans just keep it to themselves and stop bothering the rest of the world. Other people are chiming in and saying that we should remember that some Brits died there also as if, had it been all Americans then it wouldn't have mattered. I have a mind to stop visiting that site and just visit this one where it is quite obvious that the people are so much better. Thanks to the posters on the Accrington web for being decent, caring human beings.

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Here's a glimpse at the global war for the future of Islam—and what it may mean for the rest of the world.



"Allah says fight" when Hassan Butt, a 24-year-old British Pakistani, enters a curry restaurant in Manchester, an industrial city in northern England, he is greeted as a minor celebrity, the other diners nodding and smiling at him. He is the former Lahore spokesman for al-Muhajiroun, an extremist group based in Britain. Since his falling-out with the group, the British-born Butt has had his passports impounded and is under surveillance. "I would fit into being called a radical, and one day, God willing, even to be called a terrorist, if Allah permits me," Butt says. "This is something it would be an honor to be called."

Butt says his goal is nothing less than to restore the rule of "central [Islamic] authority'' over as much of the world as possible, as in the time of the Prophet Muhammad and his successors. There is no way to interpret the Koran other than literally, Butt insists, and therefore no room for "moderation.'' If, in the Koran, he says, "Allah says fight, you fight. How can anyone take a 'moderate' view of this?" And as soon as he gets his passports back, he insists, he will be off to do as Allah commands. To his fellow radicals, in the meantime, he offers a piece of advice: "Be proud, be loud."

The overwhelming majority of Muslims condemn violence committed in their religion's name. Many Islamic scholars take pains to point out that the basic texts of the faith never sanction the wanton murder of civilians—the defining feature of contemporary Islamic terrorism. But rage is shared by tens of thousands of radicals, estimated conservatively, who span the globe, from the badlands of Pakistan to middle-class neighborhoods of Western Europe. In Britain, a recent government survey put the number of hard-core Muslim radicals at 10,000 and growing. A poll of British Muslims in March found that 13% believe that "further attacks by al-Qaeda or similar organizations on the U.S.A." would be justified. In Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, only 15% view the U.S. favorably, compared with 61% in 2002. In Saudi Arabia, according to a recent poll, 48.7% of the population sympathizes with the aims of bin Laden.
The full artical........
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...692840,00.html

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Wow, that is quite an article Bazf. Very worrying. I think most of us knew of the problem, maybe we were less aware of the extent of it.

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Get Mr Hassan Butt and his ilk chucked out of the country - people like this are potential 'sleepers' and a danger to national security.

By 'his ilk' I mean militant Muslims.....

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In truth Allah does not say fight. He says peace. The Prophet Muhammad says:

"Shall I not tell you what is better than prayers and fasting and giving alms to the poor? It is making peace between one another: enmity and malice destroy all virtues."


Qu'ran does not speak war but peace. True.

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Ifty the point is not what is written but how individuals act on those words.

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Ifty,
We can all appreciate what you say and appreciate that the vast majority of muslims believe in peace but unfortunately, like ALL religions, there are those few who translate their beliefs differently! I for one do not hold Muslims accountable for the rantings of a few.

To compare, just look at the Irish situation in the 80's and 90's. The I.R.A. acting "on the behalf of southern Ireland" killed and maimed thousands of british subjects, and yet, many Irish people spent that time living in the U.K. without having a worry about petrol bombs being put through their door in the early hours of the morning! That! as you should know is the attitude of the British people.

I seem to have gained a reputation on this site for being anti-PC, and this is another example. These so called "leaders" that profess to kill or incite killing in the name of their prophet Mohammad are a disgrace to their religion and should have been banished at their first utterance! no other country in the world would put up with this, and it is quite likely, they would have been arrested/deported/hung immediately in any other country.

Unfortunately, the U.K. is scared sh**less that there will be a backlash from the P.C. brigade if they considered deportation let alone decapitation!

I think, what I am waiting for (and many others) is for the peaceful muslim population to sort out their own! YOU have the power and understanding that our government does not have, When it is seen that the Muslim population has risen against the outbursts of the fanatical few, the trust and bonding between our religions will be stronger than ever.

We are an integrated country but should not be a platform for other countries and people to impose their wishes upon us.

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Hear, hear Busman - my sentiments to a tee. I cant stand religions but as far as they go Islam seems as good as any - although I'm not down with women having to cover up most of their body, I'd like to think that us men could resist seeing an earlobe without feeling the urge to procreate there and then.....I know many Christians and they are more hypocritical and two-faced as us 'heathens' and the Hare Krishnas blind you with tales of eight armed beings from the seventh layer of Nirvana becoming the incarnation of Vishnu.....and then ask for money. I've said before but....religion has caused humankind nothing but grief.

"Allah says fight"????? When did tooled up cowards hijacking a passenger plane full of unarmed and innocent civilians including women and children and then flying said plane with a full tank of fuel into a skyscraper also full of innocent and unarmed civilians become 'fighting'????? Al-queda think they've got an army? Just a ragtag bunch of faceless cowards I'm afraid - just like the IRA, UDR, ETA and other such terrorist 'armies'.

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That was my meaning Bazf because it is quote on first page Hassan Butt says "Allah says fight".

Busman I cannot make laws to get rid of terrorist or militant any more than an Irish Catholic in England can make law to get rid of IRA here. I hear what your saying but goverment needs to act. What happens when they do? European court of human rights goes against it. So what to do? I do not know. Many leaders speak out against the bad things but have no control of what is done. Each is responsible and will answer to Allah. I know this does not solve problems now and its not the answer you want.

Where is anyone else who can give opinions? I am a minority here and only speaking for myself.

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Are there still any treasonable offences in this country? Is that the right word "treasonable"?

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On the contrary Ifty - you are part of a majority who want peace and understanding between people of different creed and colour!

You are right - the Government must act. Their hands have unfortunately been tied by the PC idiots who are that far up their own backsides and too full of self-importance to see that their actions are putting this country at risk, indeed I'd go as far as saying that their actions are sending this country down the toilet.

What about this new law - 'Incitement to Provoke Racial Hatred' - is this going to be applied fairly to all creeds? I hope so but one thinks not.....

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I do not think there is much that Ifty can do than he is not doing already. He can't deport the potential terrorists, neither is it lawful for him to go out and kill them just because he is of the same creed or shares the same origin. I think what he can do is to lead by example. He is doing that by integrating, by having discussion on this forum, by showing the people of his creed and origin that it is possible to have sensible discussion with people of other creeds and to agree to disagree on certain points. He is showing that this can be done in a non-violent way and that if we respect each other we can live together. He is on here making friends and will hopefully attend some of the social evenings. This will encourage others like him, who are open minded to try to do the same. Well done Ifty, keep posting, make friends, be a good person, show people of all creeds that this is all possible. There will be some fanatics who will never be persuaded however so don't lose faith or give up because you have failures. This is what integration is all about and you have a chance to make a difference by your actions.

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Ifty how do you know your the minority no one puts on thier profiles their ethnic background? The artical was not an attack on muslims but a comment on where Islam is going. The overwhelming majority of Muslims condemn violence committed in their religion's name. Many Islamic scholars take pains to point out that the basic texts of the faith never sanction the wanton murder of civilians—the defining feature of contemporary Islamic terrorism. But rage is shared by tens of thousands of radicals, estimated conservatively, who span the globe, from the badlands of Pakistan to middle-class neighborhoods of Western Europe. In Britain, a recent government survey put the number of hard-core Muslim radicals at 10,000 and growing. A poll of British Muslims in March found that 13% believe that "further attacks by al-Qaeda or similar organizations on the U.S.A." would be justified.

"Does it rank up there with chopping someone's head off on television? It doesn't."
— Donald Rumsfeld

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Bazf I was answering Busman saying that I don't know what I can do. Ceejache and JohnW know my ethnic background and speak refering to it. I have made comments on this subject.

Ceejache I am with you 100% saying
This is what I said before when meaning about one sort of name calling is against PC but another isnt. This makes problems. Also now too much is made of some things where there is no real problem. Like I said if somebody calls me a name its them got the problem not me.

All of you who can see that it isnt everybody who wants to create war this is good. Most people just want to get on with their lives. I dont know how to change the people who dont want this.

You can see even if I just try sometimes here to answer and explain if I misunderstand someone it brings an angry reply. I could react with anger against it but I dont want to do that. Too many people think anger is the only way. Anger and fight. This is not good. But how to change the minds of people who disagree I do not know.

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Well said Ifty
"Most people just want to get on with their lives. I dont know how to change the people who dont want this.

You can see even if I just try sometimes here to answer and explain if I misunderstand someone it brings an angry reply. I could react with anger against it but I dont want to do that. Too many people think anger is the only way. Anger and fight. This is not good. But how to change the minds of people who disagree I do not know."

To be honest with you....nobody knows what to do...that's why the terrorists are so successful.!!

I..like most others...just want to get on with our day-to-day lives. Personally, I feel the media have a lot to answer for!

Re: September 11th....
 

good point

Re: September 11th....
 

For those of you interested in such things, there is an excellent website here

http://www.letsroll911.org

It provides an exhaustive coverage of the various theories surrounding that dreadfull day. Well worth a look.