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Where's it all going to end
When is this nonsense going to end, the "PC brigade" have decided to rewrite the Mark Twain classic Huckleberry Finn, removing what they call offencive words for today's society, beam me up Scottie. I've only heard three people talk about this all afro caribbean and they were all of the same opinion bloody stupid:mad::mad::mad:
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I read about this yesterday, admittedly there's more coverage in the States than UK, but like the point made by many, should we then change all literature that may offend, should Shakespeare be redone to appease some ?
If it is intrinsic to the time/era & therefore the actual story it should be left alone. Supposedly we are in a more enlightened time & "we know better now" apparently, yet for some that is obviously not the case & proceed to be offended for everyone else. Our colonial Cousins are somewhat touchy on the subject & I believe more books have likely been banned/restricted in US than UK, our most well known Bard has had a few of his efforts deemed offensive by the Americans see here :- Banned Books: Shakespeare Censored! - Censored Works of Shakespeare Now really is this enlightenment ? Oh the joys of living in a PC World ! |
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they dorned even tawk reight neur mind't spellin. |
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Think some people may be getting a tad over offended & a little to precious about things don't you ? :rolleyes: I've definitely been called worse by better & this just made me grin.
Blackpool fans fury at 'donkey botherers' jibe - Telegraph |
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These books are classics, written at a time when there was no such thing as political correctness......meddling with them is like changing history.
It just should not be done. The writers were the social commentators of the time...they documented how things were at the time when they lived. |
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These are great books, but frm what i remember hearing at the time, certain schools (in the usa) werent reading these because they have words we now think are offensive and were especially offensive because of the historical setting. At least this means they get to read the books. I hope there teacher is afterwards explaining the original words, so they can talk about why theyve changed and try and get rid of the prejudise thats led to this.
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Oh yes.. I reckon this is a really big issue:rolleyes: one or two bods out of the 6 billion on this planet might re-write a book.. and you lot take it serious?.. :D..half the world is at war and you come up with this kak? got to say you never cease to amaze me..:)
found a link if it's any good to you: http://www.parentdish.com/2011/01/05/huckleberry-finn/ |
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whats beginning to get my 'goat' is that in many school districts in the US, Mark Twain is an 'optional' book choice but at the same time the 'Colour Purple' is requried reading .
I'm sure if I had a teenage boy in school I would much prefer him reading a tale about a rafting trip down the Mississippi than a book about two women doing nasty things to each other , lots of time for him to find about stuff like that later on the internet . Maybe one of our more 'progressive' /left wing/ politically correct Guardian reading Accy web users can tell us why they think a story of Black Lesbians should be more worthy than a young mans coming of age story. To my thinking its no better and no worse than Treasure Island , which if I remember correctly featured a naive young lad , a cripple and a blind chap and lots of misuse of of alcohol ..."yo ho ho and a bottle of rum". :confused: :eek: |
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I have to disagree. All books are meddled with. There has been, and there still is, muc ritical debate on the nature of the text, and many bibliographers, me among them, have some serious questions to ask about the confusion of text with artifact ... or confusing the artifact with the experience of reading it. In a real sense, all texts are continually re-written. The English critic, Terry Eagleton, once wrote (I think in his excellent "Literary Criticism") that "every reading is a re-writing." In other words, the experience of reading a particular "book" is unique to every reader; we all read a "different" book, even though we read the same words. Someone mentioned Shakespeare. There are many textual problems with Shakespeare. Most readers are unaware of the problems. And many of the issues do not really detract from the pleasure of reading him. Readers can enjoy "The Merchant of Venice" even tho much of it was not written by Shakespeare. "Hamlet" is as corrupt as most politicians. Students still, no doubt, read "O that this too too solid flesh would melt" ... something that many women would go for:rolleyes::D ... when any bibliographer can tell you that the Bard wrote "O that this too too sallid(dirty, corrupt) flesh would melt." And writers were not, and are not social commentators. When Shakespeare wrote "Othello", I doubt that he considered Iago's actions were motivated by the fact that a nigger was banging a white chick. What seems to be at issue here is censorship. By the way Milton's "Areopagitica" is still a good read. And works of art have always survived censorship. Indeed, Shakespeare has survived Thomas Bowdler. Twain will survive small-minded middle America. Methinks "where's it all going to end" smacks of the laddie doth protest too much. |
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Eric, it is your prerogative to disagree.
I don't have a problem with that at all. What the writer wrote at the time was in keeping with the life at that time, therefore it provides a social commentary which should not be tampered with. Tampering with what the writer wrote, is in some kind of way sanitizing it(or at least that is how the PC brigade would have us see it) but because we do not now use the 'N' word for the slaves of the time, doesn't make it right to erase it out of the language of the time. After all, I am led to believe that the N word has its origins in latin. I agree that everyone who ever reads a story will be reading it from the perspective of their own experience....and as such will probably put a different cast on it. Some people will suss out the sub plots, while for others they will go right over their heads. Also you can read something in your youth which leaves you cold, but read it again later in life and you will be affected by it......because you have matured and become a different person, with more depth. We read Shakespeare at school.......it mystified us, the language was difficult to comprehend but it came alive when we were whisked off to Manchester to see a performance of 'The Merchant of Venice'. There is talk of converting the plays of the bard into the common vernacular to make it more acceptable to youngsters in school.......I don't think it is a good idea. Just take them to see the plays, bring the words alive, don't bastardize the bard.(or any other writer for that matter). |
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The point being raised is not so much to do with a word in a book, or for that matter a comment made but the ever increasing level of censorship & enforced change being heaped onto the public at large because someone somewhere finds something offensive.
Admittedly the writings of Twain & Shakespeare were used as examples, but they are not the definitive issue here being discussed. The main focus is about perceived offence, how far are we going to go or allow things to go ? It seems as though in UK you can't have an opinion (free speech) to say something without someone getting upset & feeling offended, demeaned or victimised ! We've had a prime example within the pages of Accy web itself in the not so distant past, the word "P'key" became an issue for one or two people & as such became a non word, outlawed for general use & this is the heart of the issue. Should someone get upset at the word "Muppet" & it's conceived connotations what then ? Is that to be banned ? And before you say "Well that's just stupid, it can't happen ..... can it ?" have a think back over your life time, words we've used in everyday parlance, banned because someone somewhere didn't think it "nice" or "right". If you still can't see it here are some examples to think about, growing up if you did something stupid or couldn't get a grip of a concept you'd be labelled a "Mong" short for Mongaloid = Down syndrome, in our house it's a common enough epithet for someone doing something stupid :- I was putting tins over the veg in a shopping bag (last year !) a family member called me a mong, I just grinned the checkout girl was mortified & said "You can't say that !" Talking in a pub with friends about getting fleeced in St.Johns Market by an Asian stall holder, I said "The P@ki ripped me off !" sharp intake of breath from a neighbouring table, followed by the tsk of liberal contempt & outrage from some stranger & the muttered comment "That's disgusting what he just said !" this from a white middle class woman & I'm sure she'd of been all sweetness & light had it happened to her ? Camp Coffee, a syrup like substance long favoured over the years by many, because of the inherent display of white superiority the label envisaged it was classed as offensive & had to be changed to suit modern sensibilities in our modern multi-culti-politically correct society. So where & what next ? Are we to carry on being browbeaten into acceptance or will common sense prevail at some point ? I can only hope it does & people start demanding balance in all things. |
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Most of Shakespeare's plays are written using iambic pentameter
Iambic Pentameter - How to Study Iambic Pentameter That is the reason why they are so famous. To convert that to 'modern speech' is sacriledge and reduces them to the level of soap operas. |
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The plays were a work of fiction, and they were a comment on what was happening at the time.......the writer must have given some of his own experience of his view of life. All fiction writers are social commentators, whether they want to be or not. Their works are the imaginings, seasoned by their view of life at the time the published piece was written.......even if they have to research the work, it will be biased from their own experience of life...much as the readers perception of the story is biased by their experience of life. And as far as Jaysay protesting too much......don't the people have a right to do that to prevent these works from disappearing altogether? I know that you reckon works of art will always survive, but who knows? One day the powers that be may come along and burn these books......it has happened in the past. |
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Silly Moo. |
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At the oposite end of the spectrum, it has been announced that Radio 4 Extra (a new digital channel soon to be launched) are to broadcast an updated version of Jane Ayr to include moden day expletives and sexual content. Bet the PC Anus-Orifices can't wait to tune in!
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The thing about any text is, it is open to personal interpretation ie koran,bible etc. So what offends some people or makes them go out and do wicked or evil things may not make others do the same.Also language is often of a time so text written years ago can seem offensive or outdated to the modern eye. Some people have problems adjusting to that but thats their problem in my opinion , these folk need to see the classics for what they are and not to try and modernise them to pander to the pc brigade.
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"An old, mad, blind, despised and dying king" is no doubt a political and social observation. However, much of Shelley's other work cannot without tortuous interpretation be placed into this category. Much satire can be social commentary, Swift's "Modest Proposal" for example. But we have no idea what Swift believed he was writing when he penned it. Probably not literature ... oops, that should be "Literature", a subject that doesn't arrive on the scene until the late nineteenth century. Most texts that are allowed into the canon by the academics present a diversity that defies being placed into neat categories. What the hell, for example, is Browne's "Urn Burial"? The sermons of Andrewes are considered "Literature", and they were plundered by T. S. Eliot, but are they comments on contemporary life? I don't be thinking so. Gibbon is no longer history; it is "Literature". I could go on for ever, and I have been known to:D; however, there is nothing in any text that is independent of the reader and the ideology he brings to the act of reading. |
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Eric you are a master......of obfuscation.
I wonder just how many of the books you quote have been read by anyone who isn't doing a degree in Literature, History or some other such subject. You mention academics...ah well, what they read is different to what is being commented on in this thread. I am pretty sure that not many folk will read them for the pleasure of the story. The kind of stories that this thread alludes to are the one which clearly are for 'pleasure reading', but also give an insight of the life and times of a young boy in America at the time of slavery........the writer always writes from their own perspective, so they are writing social commentary....whether that was their intention or not. How can it be otherwise...we write what we know...what our life experineces have taught us...therfore that bit of experience says something about us, to anyone who then comes after and wishes to read what we penned. You seem to be a very learned man, and far too serious to participate in such a lowly debate with us 'commoners'. (tug forelock and walks away shaking head) |
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Let's leave "Literature" for the moment. Say a particular thread were devoted to the "Pals", local war memorials, or the First World War in general. It would, no doubt, attract the attentions of, and comments from Retlaw. He would bring to the debate his compendious knowledge of the subject, the result of years of hard work and study. Would you suggest that he is "far too serious" to participate in the debate? Would you "tug forelock and [walk] away shaking [your] head"? I doubt it. |
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:rolleyes: |
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accyman crosses astonaut off his CV :( |
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(that is where the obfuscation came in, you quote stuff you know that most of us who post on here will have no knowledge of, so you can say pretty much what you like.......and because of your self professed knowledge we must believe you). As for the bit about Retlaw......no, I wouldn't say that he is 'far to serious'........this is mainly because he gives his information in a matter of fact, down to earth way....with no attempt to 'hang his knowledge out to dry'.......or to make other contributors to the thread feel that their opinion/education is lacking in gravity. I respect and trust what Retlaw says because he doesn't always tell us he is an expert....you can tell that he is purely on his answers.(no side to him) |
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YouTube - Tommy Steele - Little White Bull (1959) |
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i dunno mancie the blackball may not be as safe as you think.We can no longer call a blackboard a blackboard these days.Mind you its perfectly ok to call a whiteboard a whiteboard :rolleyes:
im also pretty sure that the person who complained about blackboards been called blackboards wasnt black but some limp spined spotty white person with nothing better to do with their time than to look for things they found offencive to blacks on their behalf |
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It's all complete rubbish made up by the media.. 6 months ago it was some rattle snake wrestling preacher in America wanting to burn the Koran.. long before that it was the non-existent council who brought us the media myth of the "ba ba rainbow sheep"
I say if people take these cranks as some sort of pc plot then they are the either stupid or are up to stirring the big spoon. |
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you got to admit though theres truth in some of teh pc brigade stories.Thats why we have festive lights now instead of christmas lights and they are advertised as such by the council.I dare say no muslim complained about chritmas lights but rather some over paid idiot in an office somewhere decided it was offensive to muslims
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