Originally Posted by Neil (Post 884554)

That is poor. Is that £1.3 million Hyndburn part of the Council tax or the overall ammount before being split up between LCC HBC and wherever else?

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884577)

It would be very interesting to see a break down of the uncollected figure.

Is it mainly from empty properties?

Or just people refusing to pay?

In which case why aren't they being taken to court?

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 884585)

If a property is empty, the owner should have told the Council, and it wouldn't be included in the total. And of course, council tax becomes chargeable on empty properties after 6 months anyway.

The vast bulk of the uncollected figure is from people who can't or won't pay.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884588)

I thought if a property is empty, although there's a tax free period, it is still liable for council tax, albeit at a reduced rate, after that.

Since we're told there are 2,000 empty properties in the borough, I just wondered if the two things were related.

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 884592)

If the Council's records are up to date, that figure for uncollected rates will include a minimal figure for empty properties.

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 884552)

There has been much discussion on Breakfast TV this morning about the money Councils are missing out on in uncollected Council Tax.

BBC News - Councils 'missed' £530m in taxes

So how are Hyndburn doing? According to statistics from the Government's web site, here in descending order of success, are the percentages of Council Tax collected by Lancashire Councils in 2010:-

Ribble Valley 99.0 Chorley 98.4 West Lancashire 98.1 Wyre 97.9 South Ribble 97.7 Fylde 97.5 Rossendale 97.5 Lancaster 97.1 Blackburn with Darwen 97.0 Pendle 96.4 Burnley 96.1 Preston 96.0 Hyndburn 95.4 Blackpool 94.4 Lancashire Average 97.0

Only Blackpool, with its notoriously transient population, performed worse.

In cash terms, Hyndburn has missed out on 1.3 million pounds. If it had performed at the Lancashire average, it would have collected a further 466,000 pounds.

Excellent?

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884595)

Presumably the figure includes money from business rates, from commercial properties in the borough, as well as residential council tax?

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 884602)

No, business rates are separate.

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 884585)

If a property is empty, the owner should have told the Council, and it wouldn't be included in the total. And of course, council tax becomes chargeable on empty properties after 6 months anyway.

The vast bulk of the uncollected figure is from people who can't or won't pay.

Originally Posted by shillelagh (Post 884655)

not surprised bernard ... rossendale come after you even when you've paid it ...:p

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 884891)

when my Dad died the sale of his house was 'handled' by a local solicitor and local estate agent , two years/18 months later when the sale went through after the selling price had been droped a few times , property taxes were deducted from the final settlement.
Was quite an eye-opener to see six months later on the Accrington Observer property website that a property I had sold for £ 7000 (less £3000 legal fees/property taxes/agents fees) selling for £60K plus .

If anyone wants to know the names of the local Gt. Harwood sleazeballs (Solicitors) involved, feel free to PM me :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884928)

When did they sell your dad's house for you?

It does sound like you were ripped off.

Whatever they sold if for, only getting less than fifty percent sounds iffy.

Prices did go crazy locally, around seven years ago.

When I bought my house, I paid more than double than the owner had paid, eighteen months earlier.

This was 2004.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 884936)

My Father died in 2003 and his was sold sold, two years later it was back on the marked at double the price (they had done some refurbishing) but just around that time prices seemed to be going daft

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884928)

When did they sell your dad's house for you?

It does sound like you were ripped off.

Whatever they sold if for, only getting less than fifty percent sounds iffy.

Prices did go crazy locally, around seven years ago.

When I bought my house, I paid more than double than the owner had paid, eighteen months earlier.

This was 2004.

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 884944)

I accepted I was ripped off but being 6000 miles away not much I could do about it at the time , had to write it off as just another example of the way the British 'establishment' works, kind of explains/reinforces my cynical view of any 'legitimate' political/legal system ... think anarchy is the way forward ... lock and load ...:D :D

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884947)

rather than into the pockets of estate agents, and soliciters.

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 884954)

Yep, that was why I said if you want to know the name of the Gt. Harwood solicitor sleaziods PM me , don't want any legal problems for defamation. ;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884939)

You should be paying a few percent of the selling price to the estate agent, and up to two grand maximum in legal fees.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 884959)

I forget what fees we paid G. was don't in conjunction with the solicitor, who seemed to do a very fair job, in every respect at finalising my fathers estate

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884961)

It does sound like they took advantage, of someone living so far away.

Which is disgusting.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884961)

It does sound like they took advantage, of someone living so far away.

Which is disgusting.

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 884967)

Similar thing happened to my ex wife 5 years later when her Dad passed away on Lina St. , she lives in Germany and she left things in the hands of a local (Accrington) solicitor , we checked the Observer property prices 6 months later, same thing the latest transaction price had doubled .

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 884957)

I'd want evidence they did sell it for seven thousand

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 885019)

I don't think that would be a problem, it's who they sold it too I'd be checking. Not unknown for them to arrange to sell to family or friends and 'sort' it out later

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 884602)

No, business rates are separate.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 886567)

what's the equivalent collection rate on business properties in Hyndburn?

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 886636)

Correction. It is 390,000 pounds below the next worst performing authority. It is over 800,000 pounds worse than the Lancashire average.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 886652)

Thank you, and yes it does make depressing reading.

I'd hardly label this as 'excellent'.

What were we saying about saving pennies and pounds?

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 886666)

Don't worry G our Ken will have the rate up to 106% by next august;)

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 886629)

Do you really want to know? Might put you off your cornflakes.

Okay, here we go.

Lancaster 99.1 Preston 98.4 Burnley 98.4 Blackburn with Darwen 98.1 Ribble Valley 97.8 South Ribble 97.8 West Lancashire 97.8 Wyre 97.8 Rossendale 97.7 Fylde 97.5 Chorley 97.4 Pendle 97.2 Blackpool 95.0 Hyndburn 93.1 Lancashire Average 97.4

I'm afraid it makes sorry reading. Hyndburn performs nearly 2% worse than any other Lancashire district. In cash terms that is around 390,000 pounds below average.

The only consolation (:o) is that Hyndburn passes the cost of that appalling performance on to the government, and doesnt suffer any cash losses in the money it gets back.

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson (Post 886689)

I hadn't realised we were performing that badly. There's no reason really why we should be performing worse than our neighbouring authorities is there.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 886667)

thing is,any improvement is goin the right way, or do yeh think its fine as is?;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 886690)

Doesn't make good reading, does it?

Shouts out poor performance to me, in regard to collecting revenue owed, rather than 'excellent'.

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 886629)

The only consolation (:o) is that Hyndburn passes the cost of that appalling performance on to the government, and doesnt suffer any cash losses in the money it gets back.

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 886636)

Correction. It is 390,000 pounds below the next worst performing authority. It is over 800,000 pounds worse than the Lancashire average.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 886697)

So any money not collected by Hyndburn is paid by the Government?
What about money not collected from homes?
If a house is empty and owned by a landlord and eligible to pay council tax, is it classed as commercial or residential?

It cant be that hard to take a business to court for non payment.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 884661)

Yes, so do our's I know someone paid twice in one month to keep in front, got the nasty letters because somehow extra payment doesn't seem to show up.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 888287)

Well, I can happily inform you that the person involved in this little escapade was none other than, myself.

It had even got to the stage where a 'Council Tax-Notice Of Liability Order had been taken out against me with threats to send in the Bailiffs if I didn't fill in a 'Request For Relevant Information'.

Well, I didn't fill it in instead I emailed the Council and asked for a record of my payments so that I could check them against my bank statements.
A very polite but I imagine extremely harrassed lady replied Giving me the details required and also informing me that on checking these details, I was in fact up to date with my payments and that The summons and liability costs have been removed.
She did go on to say that the reason for this error was that my pay by date was the 14th of the month and some of the payments have been received after this date.

If, I was to be really bothered I think looking through my payment records I would find that in actual fact I was probably several weeks in front when making my donations to the buttie bar, but the system employed down there doesn't seem able to work that out.

However, I won't hassle the girl just on a minor technicality, instead I will thank her for her prompt action, and ask that the overpaid person in charge will try as hard and has the manners to check the figures they have before issuing their next summons to some other poor soul.

:)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 888388)

Not sure Less but I think the person your talking about may well be a computer called Fred;)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 888388)

Not sure Less but I think the person your talking about may well be a computer called Fred;)

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod (Post 888407)

You may find this hard to believe but benefits assessing is done by real, live humans, who can and do make the odd mistake, (usually as a result of people supplying inaccurate info or having ineligible handwriting!!). The only thing the computer does is the adding up and generating the letters.

( I should know, I'm one of those real, live humans! :D)

Originally Posted by Less (Post 888411)

Lindsay, if you notice, I have nothing but praise for the human intervention, it solved a misunderstanding the council were prepared to dump on me.

Originally Posted by walkinman221 (Post 888435)

Depends how much beer they have had the night before as well:D

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod (Post 888437)

You aren't too big for a smacked bottom you know!:rolleyes: