Health and Safety
 

My Daughter has just told me this morning about a friend of hers who has sadly lost one of their parents this week, she just said you'll never guess what my friend and his brothers were doing yesterday afternoon, Go on I says, they had to go to the undertakers to learn how to carry a coffin as they are going to carry the coffin at the funeral on Monday, its new Health and Safety regulations:rolleyes:

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whilst Elf n Safety can be daft at times, aint sure this is a bad idea,have been to funerals where i have seen folk struggle lugging the stiff, can look very ungainly,:confused:

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Seemingly its only just come in recently, somebody put a claim in to an undertaker for hurting their back at a funeral, the worlds gone mad;)

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where theres blame theres a claim:p

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dont surprise me at all, way of the world, but can see how folk can get hurt lifting the wrong way.

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Ya bu its only now that everybody is now on the make, there's no such thing as an accident anymore, if the same logic applied 40 years ago I'd have made a flaming fortune form miner accidents at work, but in those days you just got up brushed yourself down and got on with it;)

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Hopefully the poor fellow in the coffin won't.

:eek:

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Well I have a varied sense of humour, but actually I don't really find that at all funny:(

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Sorry.

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Disagree, twas the 80s when things really changed fer the worse n just gone downhill since.:(

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Thanks

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A lot of it is just common sense put into writing for those that dont have any.
Most people have little bumps and falls still dont report it or sue the company because they want to keep there job.

I still see dangerous things going on and usually comment when I do.

Walked away from a job a few years ago when the idiot in charge of the job was about to hacksaw an 11KV cable that he knew was the right one because he put it in the ground 15 years before. I laughed and said I cant remember what I had for my tea last week.

The correct procedure is and always has been to prove the cable dead at point of work using a device that basically fires a chisel through the cable with an exploding cap while you stand a long way away.

What I am trying to say is that is does not matter what safety procedures are put in place people will still get hurt because they ignore them.

I am big on H&S but only when its sensible and correct. I see to many stupid ideas still.

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Is this a technical term used by undertakers/funeral directors?:D

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Late '70s, I had to supervise a funeral parade. The SNCO and 6 airmen had 2 practice sessions on lifting the coffin out of the hearse and then carrying it - H & S had already struck in the RAF in the late '70s:(:(:(

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Why do you say "struck" like it is a bad thing?

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Sadly because forced stupidity is being inflicted on us by pratts & Jobsworths in authority ! :mad: when administered sensibly & judiciously the H&S along with a whole plethora of other directives we've had forced onto us are valid, but the constant interfering of the state micro managing every aspect of our daily routine has led to a culture of weasling out of things by shouting about rules & regs. A veritable shirkers paradise turning out a nation of whining pussies not prepared to use & act on common sense. Pathetic & petty.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ency-test.html

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Local men to the rescue as officials hire JCB to lift a mattress

Lake rescue victim 'condemned to death' says mother - Home News, UK - The Independent

I know also from personal experience about lazy, idle, jobsworth, backsliding individuals ! An example:- A Wifey requires a new washing machine pays & orders awaiting delivery (Hubby deployed on ops), Jobsworth turns to with a young lassie in tow at the house, when the lady of said house asks if he can put the machine in the cellar he promptly trots out H&S legislation & that he can't expect young lassie to help !

Upset Wifey phones welfare, Icky & mate sent to sort the problem (cart the machine down into the cellar) on arrival JW gone & we had to do his job ! If the rules apply to him well they must equally apply to us ??? Except we just got on with it, no fuss or bother !

That I believe is Barries point by saying "Struck"

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The wax polish had to be removed from the corridor lino - had it removed over a weekend and replaced by some liquid instant shine. Monday morning we had our first accident ever in the corridor - on the lino which then had a "non-slip" shine.
From your question, do you imply that you totally support all H & S requirements?

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I asked a local charity who sell furniture to take a cane suite from our conservatory and sell it. Two men came, took the cushions off and picked up the settee. I picked up the cushions and followed. One turned round and saw me. 'Please sir, put them down,you can't do that!' 'Why not?' 'Health and Safety, sir. If you hurt yourself it's my fault!'. 'But I'm carrying MY cushions on MY drive!'. 'Doesn't matter, more than my job's worth!'. I gave up.
Ordered some new fence panels, wagon arrived, man starts unloading them at bottom of drive. It's a long drive so I asked him to stack them near the house. 'Can't do that,sir, not really allowed on private property. I should really leave them on the road.Health and safety, you know'. Nearly killed me moving them. So much for MY health and Safety.
Is it the fools in Europe who write the rules, the fools in UK who enforce them, or ordinary people who don't understand them and daren't risk breaking them?

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or perhaps the panel guy was n idle git gordon?

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cashman, that's an awful thing to say! Although I must admit I did wonder.

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not awful if its correct though.;)

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Ridiculous.

Thanks to Health & Safety, prior to the funeral, you're now obliged to go to the undertakers, and they show you how to lie in the box without getting stiff.

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I posted this earlier

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let's get real about the law in this country.. they are decided by Parliment.. any regulations or laws made by "european courts" are not and never have been binding to this country unless Parliment agrees.
Some of the posts on this thread are against health and safety and are the ususal have a go at the bloke doing his job... most of those posts are made by men or women that should know better at a time when the whole working population are under attack by this monkey government.. you are either idiots or right wing nutters...don't be fooled by the propaganda that chips away at every right we have left.. most health and safety regulations here have been brought in because of injury or deaths at work and are introduced by in insurance companies..

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who just happen to be the biggest contributors to ALL political parties ,and supply the most lobbyists etc. same with private health care providers , who says politicians can't be bought . maybe someone can tell me why the Govt. does not offer/provide basic motorist coverage ..... something which was offered in Zambia 30+ years ago . :rolleyes: ;)

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Most of the stupid Health and Safety regs were introduced whilst your cronies were at the helm, together with Tony Blair's finest achievement in Government the European Human Rights Act, his wife and her cronies are now making a mint out of it:mad::mad::mad:

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...s/viewpost.gif
I am big on H&S but only when its sensible and correct. I see to many stupid ideas still.

So do you decide what is sensible and correct and what is stupid? Sort of "Pick & Mix":)

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Remind us which party formed the government when Britain joined the then EEC. In case you can't recall here's a reminder:
BBC News | Ever closer union? The UK and Europe

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Wasn't it when the Prime Minister was that nice Teddy Hamstead-Heath?

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Thats the bit hes conveniently forgot.:hehetable

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Neil, you are spot on.
People assume that 'Common Sense' is, well, common. It isn't.....not one little bit common.

Whe I was nursing, our Senior Tutor.......Miss Frankland, told us that we should abandon that phrase, and instead use 'application of knowledge'....but that isn't foolproof either, because some people have knowledge but don't know how to apply it in different circumstances to what they were taught.....they cannot transfer known things to apply to new situations.

Then there are those poor unfortunate souls who do not have the knowledge in the first place.

You cannot assume people have either knowledge of the ability to transfer what they do have into new situations....this is how H&S was formulated....and that is why, in large corporations/organsiations, there are protocols, risk assessments and H&S guidelines.

In law, every employer has to have them....and if they don't and there is an accident/incident that should have been prevented by H&S protocols that are not documented or in place, then the employer is in for big financial penalties.

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I think what some people are trying to say is that sometimes (quite often in my opinion) H&S is used more as an excuse for not doing something than a reason.:eek:;)

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Well, that might be the case, but if there are H&S protocols written and someone goes against them then they are up for the high jump.
I think there has to be evidence to suggest that people did nothing because it was the easy option.

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No need to remind me but I do know who have sold us completely down the River by refusing a referendum on the Lisbon treaty

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Quite right Beni, you only have to look at some of these no win no fee adverts, I specifically think of the Guy who says he was sent to fit an alarm system and was given the wrong type of ladder, more fool him for using it the twerp

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But I haven't forgot that there was a referendum as to whether we stayed in the European Union in the mid seventies and the vote was yes;)

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To be fair, we recently had a sad case locally, in which a worker died because his employers had provided their employees with unsafe scaffolding, on which they were told to work.

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yes

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When I was working, I was responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of H&S protocols and risk assessments and the records of the protocols/risk assessments......before being charged with this responsibility I was given training...this included information from the NHS Trusts Legal department....it left me in no doubt as to what would happen if protocols, records and risk assessments were not kept properly and updated regularly...and I am pretty sure it hasn't got any easier.

Litigation means that you have to write it down.

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Well if it was unsafe why did they use it, better to tell um to stick their job than lose your life

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Sadly life sometimes isn't so black and white.

Lancashire widow's fury at scaffold death blunders (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Firm fined £1 over Lancashire worker's death (From Lancashire Telegraph)

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That's totally appalling G. I think this kind of incident happens when an outside source is asked to provide this type of equipment, luckily when I was employed and scaffolding was required I either erect it myself or the company had its own scaffolders i.e. John Laing Construction (they had H & S officers way back in the 60s) but the boss of this firm seems a bit of an iffy character to say the least

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Although some of it does seem daft, I suppose that's why we have legislation, to help mimimise the risk to people whose employers aren't quite as keen on safety issues.

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I think that If you are asked to work on a scaffold that was erected by a legitimate scaffolding firm you should be safe to assume it was erected correctly.:confused:

Hardly the same as being so thick you used the wrong ladder.

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...and it might be someone, an apprentice say, or someone just starting a job after being unemployed for a long time, without the confidence to tell their employer that they can 'stick their job'.

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Dole or death seems a nobrainer to me

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Er..obviously.

But if someone's young or inexperienced, and told to do something, they might not have the knowledge to make an informed decision.

I suspect if new people fall for going to get 'tartan paint' or whatever, being told to work in what might be an unsafe way, isn't thar far-fetched.

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There used to be an organisation called "The Factories Inspectorate". Not enough power but did do a worthwhile job. It was replaced by H & S Executive I believe, which, along with the "No win, no fee" lawyers has become an ever growing cancer within our society. It has even extended to children's games - conkers banned and the latest being sponge balls only, to play football in the school playground.
I do agree with some aspects but not with a lot of others, however, we are all required to conform with all aspects of H & S directives, I am afraid we cannot choose what we will adhere to and what we won't.

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I was sent for tartan paint, sky hooks and miscellaneous other apprentice wind-ups. But, my safety was always looked after by my mentors - worked at heights above 25' without safety harness, in confined spaces under machinery and below workers above me and no hard hat.
Perhaps I was lucky, a few cuts, lots of bruises, more than enough electric shocks, but a great deal of experience in how to look after myself.
The example that Jay quotes is a classic - i would have had a size 12 buried in my posterior for doing that - wrong type of ladder and he was totally wrong in his posture for drilling a wall, whether on a ladder or on the ground, and no safety man holding the base of the ladder - but of course we have to allow for artistic licence

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Yeh got me beat wi that,to the best of my recollection the H.@S. at work act,was not introduced until 1972??:confused:

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Sorry for the short reply, I was in the car driving along the M74 in Scotland at the time and was trying not to type to much while needing the new posts.

I meant to write, yes I do :rolleyes:

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To my mind the H.S.W.A. was introduced cos change was drastically needed to many working practices n therefore was a good thing, the problem to me is simple, many things are introduced usually fer the better, the moment they are, in no time the "Wise Guys" find a way to get around it, therein to me is the main problem, those that are meant to regulate/uphold this new act, do sod all to rectify these loopholes.:rolleyes: so the abuse of such acts grows n grows. anyone care to dispute my theory?

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What loopholes are you talking about because I am not sure I can think of any straight away?

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Have to disagree Barrie the Factory Inspectorate were either Corrupt or Useless ! you decide which cap fits from this example- i worked at a large local company, when the Factory Inspector was gonna make a visit, at least 3/4 days before they rang the company and told em the purpose of the visit, so as yeh can imagine "Everything" in that section including employees, looked shipshape @ Bristol Fashion, explain please how yer arrive at worthwhile?:confused:

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Yes, but while you were young, and gaining knowledge, and asked to do something dangerous, would you have told your boss to stick his job, as Jaysay suggested is the choice?

I doubt most would have the knowledge to make that decision, or the nerve.

Though much of it seems obvious, Health & Satety legislation was introduced for those who don't have 'mentors' watching their backs, and for the small minority of employers who don't rate the safety of those in their pay very highly.

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Perhaps loopholes was a poor choice of word on my part, hard to remember 40 yrs back, perhaps should have said ways around the act, cos i know fer fact if they were informed about such things, was never even followed up. even if they were informed in writing.;)

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Worked at a care home in M/C as recently as 5 years ago, the council have to make periodic spot checks to make sure every thing is in order.
They would phone up to a week in advance to say they were calling to make a unanounced check, by which time evrything was shipsahpe and bristol fashion and any of the residents who may have kicked up a fuss were suddenly taken for day trips to the seaside.
And it happend on more than one occasion.

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John Laing had a safety officer resident on every site cashy, In fact I did have an accident when I worked up Shad, I stepped down of a ladder and caught my heal on the skirting board though I'd broke my ankle, I was of work for about 10 days (I had sprained it) the Safety officer visited me at home twice whilst I was off. there might not have been a H & S act passed in 72, but Laings held great store by safety at work well before the act came in

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I'm in the middle of recording a series of training films for a firm in Preston and by far the biggest headache has been the Health and Safety programme.

Despite the fact that the film is only a guideline on how to use the firm's own cleaning products safely, we have had to incorporate a huge raft of unrelated European guidelines in the script in order to meet regulations just so that if some silly sod watches the film and then decides to drink a pint of bleach anyway we don't get sued for it.

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Some years ago I bought a new fridge and of course along with It came a list of Does and Dont's.Ican't remember them all but one was.Do Not Use The Open Fridge Door As A Stepladder When Painting Your Kitchen Ceiling.:rolleyes::

What a bummer!!:eek::D:D

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How stupid,everyone knows yeh use the oven.:D

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I bought a hairdryer and it cautioned me not to immerse it in water...as if I would!

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Prestige Burnley were, to the best of my knowledge, given a "window" of when the inspection would occur - so for a few weeks we would have to make sure that all machine guards were fitted and other safety transgressions were stopped - usually the machine operators that removed the guards so that they could increase production (piece-work) - me, same old scruffy apprentice boiler suit:):):)

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I can't remember encountering it before '76 - mind you I had been in the Outer Isles before that:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Didn't really know what was dangerous (except when bombs were being found, rounds being fired fairly close and G-G missiles landing close by), if I felt i could do what was requested, I did it to the best of my availability. If i didn't think I could then I would say so and try and find an alternative solution - never got sacked from any job:eek::D:D

I remember the first page on h&s I had to read, it was from a loose leaf folder & I got a paper cut!
If I'd known then what I know now, that could have set me up for life.

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Sorry G but should have also said - depends what age is accepted as young - the ages on the headstones around Arnhem seemed to have a majority who were early 20s and younger.
No H & S for them, is it supended during war?

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I remember during the 90's, I was Workshop Manager, The guy in charge of Production was sacked for fiddling, (elaborate invoices) our boss wasn't happy, (didn't get his share), brought in a brother-in-law that had spent most of his time as a Brickies labourerer as the supervisor, he introduced himself by announcing, "Health and safety is the last thing we need to worry about, get the stuff through the door, then bother".

I had several well trained & worried lads asking if this guy was, 'for real',

He didn't stay long.

Health & Safety has it's place, but just like Pee Cee, some folk can take it too far either way.

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I can only assume plank and cripples are taboo these days then:D

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Call yourself what you want, some of us will be kind enough to answer.
:)

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And evidently take the P:D

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You're right, cashman, I knew that. Just a shame I forgot to turn the hob off.

On the front of a carton of milk in large letters-MILK.
On the side of the carton(in very small letters)-Allergy warning. Caution, this container contains milk.??

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see same as our place, so still waiting fer explanation of worthwhile? as walkingman says the replacement fer the F.I. are still doing the same n that was in a small workplace a carehome.:eek: the principle of Health @ Safety may be good, the reality is summat else, trouble is many are too naive or couldn't careless, so fer me a portion of the blame lies with the workers as well.;)

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My grandfather was twenty two when he was killed in Normandy, leaving my nan pregnant with my mother. So yes I'm aware that young men, and women, suffer in times of war.

All I'm saying is that I disagree with Jaysay's rather naive assumption that people have a choice when asked to do some particular job, and that if they think it's dangerous, they should tell their boss to stick their job.

Sometimes life isn't that black and white.

Inexperience might mean you aren't able to make an informed decision, when asked to do something.

H & S legislation is there to (hopefully) ensure employers have a legal obligation, that the people who work for them have a safe as possible working environment.

I've posted earlier, much H & S seems daft, or just common sense, but there is a need for some legal requirement that employee safety is addressed.

If they'd had it in the nineteenth century, they'd have probably forced the mill owners to make sure the little mites who were employed to clean the moving looms, wore little hats, to lesson the chances of 'em being scalped.
Which they frequently were.

;)

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They have been doing spot checks on building sites in this area

BBC News - Fifth of building sites in East Lancashire 'unsafe'