So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Quite the election result in Barnsley, eh. Does it suggest anything significant in British national politics, esp. for the Lib-Dems? Or is it just sort of politically "normal"?

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

According to the new Labour MP it's a smack in the face to the Lib-Dems and the voters ( all 36% who voted ) have spoken.

Shame he never mentioned the fact that the reason for the bye-election was his party colleague screwed the taxpayer. :rolleyes:

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

The Lib-Dem came 6th ..just behind the fart in a biscuit tin party candidate... looks like they are taking most of the flack for this government and it serves em right.
The Lib-Dems joined the Tories for two resons.. one is that Clegg was given the deputy PM post and the other a referrendum on AV.. Clegg has been shown up as a "wet" and is ignored by the Tories.. the AV will likely be a no vote.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

But you can't blame the Labour candidate for the screw ups of his predecessor. And you mention the low turnout ... but what is the reason? Could be apathy ... could be anger .... could be lots of things. Could be the Lib-Dems just not showing up to vote.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

So Clegg joined the tories because he saw the opportunity for power ... or at least a share of it. If he had a pair, and half a brain he would have stuck to the priciples of his party and joined neither Labour nor the Conservatives. Maybe then you guys would have seen the benefits of a minority govt. The major benefit of such a government would be that the tories couldn't ram the cuts to the NHS etc. down the throats of the people of Britain. We've had a minority govt. for five years, and with that minority govt., we weathered the recession ... in fact, in most of Canada, we hardly noticed it ... and our economy and our dollar is now stronger than ever. And we did it without cutting services or gutting the health care system.

Where do the "fringe" parties go from here? I guess the UKIP had a decent showing.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

If it's about % and stats then it's clear how Barnsley judge this government since the election 9 months ago... and you can take into account the standing Labour MP was a tealeaf:

Vote %
Labour 2010 47% 2011 60.8% + 13.5%
Tory 2010 17.3% 2011 8.3% -9.0
Lib-Dems 2010 17.4% 2011 4.3% -13.1

Safe Labour seat so no surprise it was an easy win..but the Lib-Dems have dived by a massive amount

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

The massive Lib-Dem dive was a bit of a shock, never realised there were many students in Barnsley.:D

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

Don't tell me you ain't heard of the Barnsley Technical University of Brilliance :)

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

Maybe the Lib-Dems stayed away in droves ... this could explain some of the low turnout. If they have a leader who sells out his principles and those of the party to the highest bidder, perhaps they will bide their time until Clegg joins the tories, and the party selects a less opportunistic leader.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

There must be a lot of disillusioned people in that part of the country.

After all, in those telly debates before the last election, that Nick Clegg looked really, really nice, and came across really, really well.

Who'd have thought you can't always believe what you see?

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

It's difficult to draw any major conclusions from the Barnsley by election, given that it is the sort of Labour seat where they weigh rather than count the votes. The other candidates tend to be a bit of an irrelevance.

On the face of it, the Lib Dems look to have been annihilated, and there is clear disillusionment with their leader and their support for the right wing agenda of the coalition.

It will be interesting to see if the extent of that disillusionment translates into the national picture in the local elections in 8/9 weeks time.

My own view is that it will, and the Lib Dem party is about to enter a major crisis that has got to threaten the coalition.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

We've had nearly a century in which the Liberals, under various guises, have been able to have all kinds of lovely polices, which they didn't have a cat in Hell's chance of seeing implemented, because they stood no chance of winning an election.

I should imagine a lot of their recent supporters will now be disillusioned, after abandoning so many pre-election promises, because they wanted a taste of power, and decided to jump into bed with the Tories.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

forgive my ignorance, but aren't the elections in a few weeks local elections?
They do not really act as an indicator of national politics...do they?

Silly me. of course they do, because some people still vote purely on the colour of the rosette, rather than what the local issues are, and considering who is the best candidate for the local job.

Local politics and National politics are different entities.....but this doesn't seem to register with many of the voting public.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

We are seeing 12% swings regularly now. The local elections this time were last held in 2007. Labour was below the 30% then, somewhere around 24%.

I would dearly like the Conservatives to lose their grip. More importantly see a more friendly, positive Labour Council. On these swings it would happen but will it in May in Hyndburn?

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

We've been canvassing in Rishton for the forthcoming local election for some time now and the overriding thing I am trying to impress on people is to look beyond the badge and separate local politics from national.

Last year I even had people who told me outright that I was the best person for the job saying that they wouldn't be voting for me because they had always voted Conservative. Fortunately, I sneaked in with a slim majority of 151 and am now doing my best to justify the faith of those who voted for me and prove that the right decision was made to those who didn't.

As Marg P has already inferred, many people only see the national picture and a large amount of residents are still unaware that Hyndburn has been Tory-controlled for most of the past 11 years. The Hyndburn Labour group are trying to persuade you to vote for their candidates in May not through empty promises but by simply telling you what the controlling group is actually doing with your money.

When simple things such as a one-off visit by a celebrity chef is still newsworthy after four months and the closure of a toilet causes public outcry it should be cause to consider if the current controlling group are really the people you want to entrust £13m of your money to this year.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

You forgot the main reason as usual Mancie, to get rid of that load of crap Brown and Co:p

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

Frequenters of Kenweb, can you see my problem?

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley?
 

Main reason my arse, if the leader had been Charlie Chaplin, Clegg would have still done the same,:p

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

the thing is further down the years the truth will come out brown wasnt that bad a leader and everybody will stop believing the propoganda that is being stuffed down our throat that we never had any debt before labour came in:confused: brown and co created jobs for people that wouldnt have had a chance in hell under the tories.people have got short memories the national minimum wage will be next to go..

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

One thing nobody's commented on is the improved showing of UKIP. I hope this is a sign of growing disillusionment with the lunacies of the EU. I'd really like to see UKIP garner a massive protest vote at the next election to put the frighteners on both the Tories and Labour. Don't want to see 'em in power, as their policies seem far too rightwing for me, but I'd like to see mainstream politicos jolted into standing up to the dictates of the EU, in a similar way to the French!

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

No, he wasn't a bad leader.

He was a great leader.

A real man of the people.

Totally in tune with the thinking of the oridinary man on the street...and woman too.

YouTube - Gordon Brown Bigotgate.

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

sometimes mate i mistake yeh fer a dingle.:eek::D dont let Existence see this, will call it racist.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Agreed.

We can live in hope mainstream parties eventually see support for minority parties as being due to their failure in addresing peoples' very real worries.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

You can only vote for UKIP candidate if the party fields one........in many areas at the last election, there wasn't a UKIP candidate to vote for.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

As for Gordon Brown not being a bad leader........that has to be some kind of joke surely.
He had nothing in the way of communication skills, no charisma, he sold the country's assets at a fraction of their worth.......he hid the banking fiasco........spent much more than the country could afford....so what constitutes a bad leader in your book then?

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Totally agree with you - Brown wasn't a bad leader - he just wasn't a leader at all

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

To be expected really, Barnsley has maintained its ties to Labour throughout the years. A friend of mine lives over that way & he & pretty much all his family & relatives are staunch Labour supporters & unionists through & through, blinkered you might say but it's like a tradition where they come from.

As to the Lib-Dems & Cons, forgone conclusion they'd take a proper hiding at the polls, that being the case a fair bit of that withdrawn Lib-Dem & Cons support has been re-chanelled into UKIP amongst others, so it isn't out & out in favour of Labour by a long stretch. With your man being ex-military it may not sit well in the future with certain elements of the populace thereabouts. So watch this space.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

This is quite a crock ... nice insult to the folks in Barnsley: "blinkered":eek: And does it surprise anyone that voting Labour is a "tradition" in a traditionally working class area? And why was the crap kicking that the governing parties got "a forgone conclusion"? If the voters in Barnsley had any confidence in the policies of the current government, there would not have been such a wild swing away from them. They may not have won, but at least they might have had the satisfaction of holding onto their vote. Not losing votes, and face, in a strong Labour constituency could have been counted a minor victory. And from what source did you get the information that those who supported the government parties in the General Election fled to the UKIP and to other fringe parties?

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

I quite agree. I don't think there's such a thing as traditional voters anymore.

You only have to see Thatcher's appeal to many who were seen as traditionally working class Labour voters, and Blair's massive '97 victory, when he convinced the middle classes of middle England that New Labour were the best choice, to witness this.

Historically this area was seen as traditionally a Labour seat, but we had a Conservative MP from 1983-1992.

People vote for a number of reasons. Though only a tiny minority vote the way they do because their parents did, or because they see themselves as a particular class, and therefore have to vote in a certain way.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Eric the comments made were due to responses garnered when speaking with the people I've met over there. They were more than happy to take me round & show me all the derelict housing, shut up shops & run down communities left behind in the wake of the Pit closures (under Thatcher).

The resentment lays a long way back & is passed on through the generations, this I have personally witnessed, they've no love of the Tories roundabouts, as to the UKIP & others if you look at the %'s Ukip only featured in 2010 as a defined recipient now look at their margins, Labour gained 13% & Lib-Dem/Cons lost between them 23ish% so exceeds the make up of Labours gained total. UKIP came on the screen in 2010 with 4.67% but now have 12.2% so it's safe to assume a part of their net gain was due to LD&C's poor showing.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source...gmW8JA&cad=rja

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

I personally know of people who vote the way their parents voted........they do not think or consider the change in the political scene that has happened over the last 30 years....they just go ahead and put their cross in the same little box that they always have.......they feel that anything less would be a betrayal of their class.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Agree quite a few still do,that i know.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Thinking about it, I suppose I know a few too.

Mainly toffs, who'd consider it a sacrilege.

I still think it's much more fluid nowadays though..

Everytime there's a survey, asking people what class they consider themselves, it always reveals a majority of people who see themselves as middle class, regardless of job, income, background etc. I think people choose what they are now, and who they vote for, regardless of background.

Although I came from a home where politics was discussed, I know how my dad voted, mainly because he nearly dragged us off to Italy to open a water ski-ing school, when Thatcher was elected, but I've not got the slightest idea who my mum votes for.

So though my parents helped shaped me politically, I don't vote because of some historical lotalty. I decide who at the time I think should win.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

I agree with you and Marg, but there must be a lot of people who vote differently from their parents, and the traditional workers/Labour, bosses/Tory, voting patterns of the past.

Thatcher would never have got in if it wasn't for those who saw her politcs as a way of bettering themslves, buying their houses, aquiring shares etc.

Similarly Blair wouldn't have won the elerction in '97 if he hadn't ditched readical socialism, in order to appeal middle England.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

I still don't go along with the "safe to assume" thing. But the idea that the resentment goes a long ways back ... that I can agree with. But how far back does it go? One can argue that it goes back to the "harrowing of the north" in the late 11th. century, which created the great North/South divide, a split which Mrs. Gaskell highlighted in her still quite readable novel "North and South." But this type of voting pattern is something that your present government has caused ... this is an opinion by the way.;) If I were Clegg, I would bail now and rally my constituency for the next General Election. This would probably follow a no-confidence vote, possibly on the budget.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

I know how far back resentment goes wi me Eric, - The Miners Strike n will stay with me until i croak.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

If the electorate demonstrates at the polls that they wish to see the debate on membership of the EU brought to the fore in parliament, then perhaps the only way to do it is to start voting for the UKIP. Surely, then, those who control the two major parties will make a point of offering a referendum on the issue, if only to gain votes.

I still think that the EU is a bad idea. If it were a trade agreement and/or a military alliance, it wouldn't be too bad ... but putting Europe into a blender, nah. Out of the resulting mess, the Germans would float to the top. They lost the wars, but look like a good bet for winning the peace.:mad:

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

See my influence goes back further than that, and my great grandad hating Churchill all his life, for sending the troops in against the striking miners in 1926.

Raving red.

Would have shot my Nan as a class traitor, if he'd have known she'd become a Tory. Despite her background. Widowed mill girl. Poor as a church mouse, or at least she was until Thatcher increased war widows' benefits, post Falklands.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Oh i had done much reading before that episode n had n intense dislike to begin with, but after seeing first hand during that time it developed into hatred.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Well we'll just have to disagree on the point of "assumption" then Eric :) As you say it's an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. As to the resentment, again I can only speak about what I'm personally aware of through my own experiences growing up in Englands industrial North West & specifically Liverpool. I've been able to see first hand various causes & effects of political games in its relation to my region.

But as others have also mentioned, this ingrained idea of voting "because" is still quite prevalent in UK across the board it appears, again this is borne out by people I've spoken to. Yes some do go their own way but as stated quite a few are following in the footsteps of family & upbringing.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Same here, as we talked about over a brew, the other week.

My best mate at art school, all through the strike, was a miner's daughter from South Yorkshire.

Re: So, what happened in Barnsley
 

Derek Hatton was pure Thatcherite, through and through.

Militant Tendency was just his ladder to success, and riches beyond his wildest dreams.

Thatcher's poster child.

:D