NHS "shake up" why?
 

What is the point of all this and why are the Tories hell bent on what they call a "shake up"?... the government that says they will listen to, and take into account the views of the people, have been told by the Medical Association that this will lead to disaster.
BBC News - NHS shake-up 'like gas and water privatisation'

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

every government that comes into power always mentions some sort of reform or shake up to the NHS

under labour it means good intentions that dont work out too well and under torys it means a sneaky way to cripple the nhs further

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Of course the Medical Association will disagree - otherwise it is like turkeys voting for a second Christmas.
We have suffered a number of screw ups by NHS Administration staff in the past few months - get rid of the dross, that will save money, make for greater efficiency - and make patients a lot happier.
Read the reports on neglect, inedible food, infections picked up in hospitals and the waste.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

The NHS is a complete mess from the top down.
Yes they save peoples lives so we all like it but the way it is organised and the way patients are treated is very poor.

There are many posts on here about cancelled appointments and ridiculous waiting times when you arrive at the stated time. All that is poor management by staff that do not care about patients. If my GP's surgery starts at 9am and I have an appointment at 10am why on earth did I have to wait 1/2 hour to see the Doctor. How can they be 1/2 hour late 1 hour after opening.

A few bad staff make the good ones look bad and they appear to get away with it. I would like to see the staff sickness levels in hospital as that is one thing that was being milked 20 years ago when my Mum worked on the admin side and I bet it still is.

A family member, who I wont name for obvious reasons, was explaining what they have to do. I was shocked at the breaches of health and safety in a Government run building. The same Government that makes the rules on lifting and handling and lone working etc.

Schools are as bad though and they are another Government run establishment.

The NHS still has 'old school' management and attitudes. Most business and industry sorted out the waste of labour and resources years ago, those that did not went under. If the NHS had been a private for profit company it would have gone under years ago.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

The NHS performed as many operations has it has had shake-ups, waiting lists would be a thing of the past :cool:

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Its a known fact that 70 pence in every pound spent in the NHS is thrown down the drain, mainly through stupidity, when you have 998 support staff to every 1000 clinicians there is something sadly wrong

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

I did not take the whole quote.. are you saying it is a good "idea" to transfer NHS funding directly to GP's?.. I'll say the NHS is is a sight more better state than it was in the 80's.. it is not a business but this government have an eye on making it a profit making business.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

No I think it is a bad idea. As I said GP's cant even sort out there own appointments.

Recently a GP ignored me when I asked for my daughter to be referred to see an ENT consultant. After a long discussion on the phone with my wife where he said I never asked for a referral she was referred.

The consultant said it was right to refer her and she will be have a procedure soon.

The NHS is not a money making business and it cant be. It can be run a lot more efficiently though.

Little things they do are wrong. They blame the majority of hospital aquired infections on visitors yet they allow staff to go to work and go home in there uniforms. How is this different than visitors? Are these staff washing there uniforms correctly to kill bacteria/virus picked up at work even?

You have to get the little things right as well as the big ones.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Always remember that in any profit making business there is no waste, if the NHS is run on the same lines with any savings being used what a much better health service we would have, at the moment nobody gives a stuff just how much the NHS is charged for things like stationary medical equipment hospital furniture(beds, cabinets, bedside tables) because its taxpayers money and nobody gives a fig, cut out the waste and you get a better service

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Thats not true at all.

I work for a profit making company and we have waste.

Spent several days recently improving a water recycling system to make the first stage 10% more efficient and I have not finished yet.

You can always make savings and you don't always have to reduce staff/quality/standards/safety to do it. Sometimes you just need the right person to look at it.

I have spent the last 20 years making efficiency improvements.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Everyone has had a good say at slagging off the NHS..but the question was .Why?.. will the NHS be better if funding is given directly to GP's.?

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

I said no it wont. In my opinion GP's cant organise themselves. Mine still close half days and at lunch time. How pathetic is that. They have more than one receptionist so why do they take lunch at the same time? Some people can only phone up at lunch time and they are closed.

I class my GP's as one of the better ones as well.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

well if its left in the hands of surgeries like peel house it sure wont and i think a lot of people who are there will agree or those that do will have probably switched by now.Iv never known a doctors be closed so much for staff training infact i think astronoughts go through less training to fly the space shuttle than they do for answering phones which isnt their strongest point coming to think of it :rolleyes:

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Well I can well understand that, but does this happen to the same extent in any government funded body, at the end of the day if the company you work for loses money had over fist to wasteful stupid spending it won't be long before your out of a job, public funded bodies don't give a toss because it has no effect on their being, if it did, they would soon look for ways of cutting cost in the RIGHT areas, but don't hold your breath

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

I did not say my company does wasteful stupid spending.

The NHS needs most its top management replacing and needs some serious shake ups lower down as well. They need to get rid of lazy useless staff and replace them with ones that want to do a good days work for what is after all a reasonable remuneration package.

I think a lot of NHS staff dont live in the real world work wise. They would have a shock if they were in industry.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

They must need more training then :D

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Exactly Neil, but there is a lot to be desired with amounts of money paid for basic equipment too, its stupid, £400 for a bedside table, somebodies having a laugh

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Its the same in schools, visited one yesterday and had was surprised at what it cost for something they built using a local firm compared to using there usual contractors.

I wont mention money but it was massive

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

the nhs is the envy of the world why else would everybody come here and want to use it.i think we are taking it for granted which is stupid because when its gone its gone.gps shouldnt be accountable because are they not a private business with a nhs contract.plus look whats happened with the drug companies getting a foothold in the surgeries..

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Across the board it's the PFI (Private Finance Initiative) admittedly brought in by the Tories in 1992 & heavily criticised by Labour party of the day as back door privatisation. That said, when Labour took over the reins in 1997 instead of cutting it back they readily widened its usage through their tenure leading the Country further into private ownership (supposedly despised by Labour).

And here we stand 2011, even more PFI deals being done by a Coalition Government basically selling off the Country to the highest bidder & their shareholders. The only winners in all this is big business & certainly not the public.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

about half an hour ago i had a phone call from Burnley Hospital asking me if i still wanted the operation on my arm, it is almost 12 months ago since i had my pre-op, when i said to the woman on the phone that it had been almost 12 months she laughed at me and said 'sorry', they wanted me there at 6.30 am to wait for 'morning surgery', i explained to her that there was no way i could get to Burnley that early in the morning because i didn't drive, she then said that there is a hospital bus from The Royal Blackburn which starts at 6.15am (it still wouldn't get me to Burnley for 6.30)...i put the phone down on her.

is this ME wasting valuable Hospital time? for all they knew or cared my arm could have dropped off sometime in the last 12 months, where they waiting so long hoping that i didn't need the op anymore? who knows, at this moment in time i am very VERY angry that someone employed by the NHS can just laugh off the fact that it has taken them 12 months to get back to me

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Neil, I have the advantage of having worked in retail, manufacturing and in the NHS...so I feel that I am better able to judge than most who are offering opinions.
The NHS is a vast organisation, and as in all vast organisations there are issues within the management......it is too top heavy on the management side.
In many cases one bit of the organisations is doing one thing while another bit is doing something else.....the right hand often knows absolutely nothing about what the left hand is doing....and this causes difficulties and also wastes valuable resources.

When I worked in industry I thought I worked hard, but I can tell you I worked a darn sight harder in the NHS......a tin of beans will not complain if you handle it badly, and it isn't likely to lose its life either.

When you are dealing with human beings you are dealing with complex issues, identities, cultures etc etc......there are so many ways that you can get it wrong.

If I worked alongside someone who I felt was lazy and not pulling their weight then they were told and it was brought up at their next appraisal......staff are under scrutiny far more now than they ever were.

The NHS isn't perfect, but a lot of harm was done to it by politicians exerting market forces on the system, and changing the goalposts every few months.
When I went into nursing, I did it for the most basic reason.......to help people and to make a difference to their lives when they were at their most vulnerable......now there are many people who go into the job because it has been seen as a safe job, a constant pay packet....something that they can do until retirement comes along.......they question working unsociable hours, they balk at the constant pressure to continue to prove their education in the chosen field is up to date, in short, they are not there because they want to serve the patient and the wider community.

The proposed NHS reforms are madness in their current state, and if you think that the quality of care is bad now, just wait until it falls into the hands of providers from the private sector....whose main aim after all is to make a profit.

I am heartily glad that I am out of it.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Shaz, write a letter explaining the circumstances to the Chief Executive....from there things should move pretty fast.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Maybe i should have done that 12 months ago Marg

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Well, maybe you should have done, but do it now while you are still mad as hell....and 12 months without them contacting you is really pitiful........I am really surprised that the Consultant didn't know you have been overlooked.
I used to do a pre-op clinic and I would certainly have known that you had not been for your op and I would have been chasing those responsible for not getting you in for surgery....things must have become really sloppy.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

I wonder who suggested that at the time :p:D

And who offered you a lift to Burnley :p:D

So shut up moaning :p:D

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Well why didn't you make me do it then? Huh ;)

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Who in their right mind would dare suggest you do something against your will ? :eek: That's either incredibly daft or exceptionally naive ! :D

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Now now DiGy, i'm not that bad lol

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Whats your opinion of the PFI which was used to build numerous hospitals, for which we will be paying, for the next 30 years or saw

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

They come here to use it because it's FREE! Even if they aren't British, not even from the EEC, they get free treatment once they're here(not free actually, our taxes are paying for it).
YOU try getting FREE treatment abroad, even in the EU, you won't get it, if you retire to Spain or other EEC countries you need health insurance.If you're taken ill on holiday it costs you a fortune, even in the EU and you try to use your card(E111?).
Are we MAD? Is there any other country in the world where you can walk into a hospital and get free treatment, wherever you come from?
How much would stopping that save and how much would it cut down waiting lists?

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

It has been mentioned by a few on here & here is further information in regard to PFI. The need for shake up within the NHS is due to the lack of funds available because of poorly organised contracts based on PFI agreements undertaken by the last Governments Health Ministers, read on ! :(

Labour left taxpayer £60billion bill for new hospitals - Telegraph

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Shushhhh Dave your not suposed to mention the last governments failings

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Anyone with half an eye and only a quarter of a brain could see that this form of finance was going to be trouble........and for a long time to come.
If we can't afford something then there are other alternatives to funding it.
Many of the cottage hospitals were funded by public subscriptions........yes, I know that it takes time to raise funds for such huge items of expenditure.........didn't the local population fund the MRI scanner.
I know my own unit raised funds for a baby scanner.
This kind of fund raising brings communities together to fulfil a need, and so the good that it does is not just financial.......it leads to community cohesion, and a shared identity.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

You are wrong Gordon. I had a heart attack in Spain in 1998, received treatment in intensive care and spent six days in Hospital all on E111.
My wife had to visit on two occasions. once with an eye injury and once with an ankle injury all treated with the use of E111.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

the boss had to use the new card that replaced the E-111 only last week, n yes we had to supply our hol insurance, but it cost us sod all, apart from the prescription the hospital gave her, i have just rung our insurance n yes we can even claim that back, i have used this method before in spain n not cost us out.

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Roy got major treatment free and cashman only paid for the prescription but I remember reading books about retiring to Spain( glad we didn't ) which said you must have private insurance, even if you were living there or you could end up with big bills.
So does anyone know what the overall position is for treatment in the EU?

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Not too sure about retirement Gordon, what i do know is when i lived yon, i had me "Residencia" n paid social security equivalent which covered all members of me family, so cost me nowt fer all the treatment me late missus required. since i came back 10/11 yrs ago, have used E-111 or new equivalent approx 4/5 times without any cost to me.:)

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Have a gander here.

Healthcare abroad

Re: NHS "shake up" why?
 

Don't know about the whole, but in France -
If you are a resident you get the form from Newcastle hand it in to their NHS (CPAM)
A few weeks later you are issued with a Carte Vitale, which has to be shown when attending anywhere concerned with health - this card carries all your basic medical data.
Visit Dr - cost is E22 but CPAM send you a refund of E17.
Visit Specialist - same as Doctor
Prescription Charge - you pay 30%
Top-up insurance can easily be obtained at various levels (costs), which then covers all the payments including private hospital room, spectacles, dental and physio.
A visitor using EHICC may have to pay the total cost and then reclaim it from Newcastle - one incidence I know of took 2 weeks to get the reimbursement paid into her UK Account