"White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Anyone else getting as sick and tired as me about our 'elected leaders' apologizing for "our" collective guilt exploiting the poor and unwashed in other parts of the world ..... Sorry , but as far as I know none of my ancestors never owned a slave or was called Bwana or Memsahib, they were too busy working in the coal mines and textile mills, any cousins/uncles 4 or 5 generations past who served under the Kings/Queens colours in those times in foriegn parts did so legallaly under the laws of that time. So Mr Cameron don't feel the need to aplogize on my or my familys behalf .
Seems to me .. too many modern day "leaders" (small L) seem to feel we should share some form of the same collective guilt that we subjected the surviving Germans to immediatly after WW2 .
Mr. Cameron and (members of the House of Commons) if you want to kow -tow and apologize for anything the British have done in recent years , apologize for the actions of your predecessor but one, Tony Blair and his illegal war on the people of Iraq , though I think thats unlikely since you all probably sup from the same trough and sleep in the same sty.

Kind of strange don't you think that Gahdaffi is public enemy #1 worthy of RAF bombing raids ,yet Mugabe is still allowed to continue his reign of terror ,anyone remember "kith and kin" where are the British apologies for putting this guy in power, if France can sort out the Ivory Coast why can't you sort out Rhodesia/Zimbabwee

Rant over ;) :D

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Totally agree SJ, you can't undo things that have been done nor can you be held responsible for things you have had no control over which happened years ago, its a nonsense, always has been always will be, like I said to a local politician just lately you can't unsay something you've said no matter what context you said it in, you can't undo the past, just make sure it doesn't happen again

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

I'm still waiting for an apology for the Big Bang.

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Nice Rant!
I look forward to the next episode. :)

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Sorry:o But don't worry, according to some, the Big Crunch is on its way; so, if you are still around in a few billion years ......

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

my grandad died in one of hitlers concentration camps.Should i seek an appology from germany for their dodgy workmanship that led to him falling from his watchtower ?

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Some of my ancestors were mistreated by the Normans after 1066, other members of my family were Normans mistreating the serfs, should I apologise to myself?

Less, (he says with a slight French accent & breathe reeking of garlic), I'm very sorry for all that my family did to my family.*


* Please note, there is no point trying to claim compensation, mixing with the peasants has destroyed what little wealth my family had!


:)

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Have never understood why apologies are needed fer crap that happened donkeys years ago, sod all to do wi me!, like jaysay says making sure history aint repeated will do far more good imho.

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Entirely agree, however its not just in the UK but world wide, wish we had the "spin doctors" who put the rubbish out. We owe the Germans an apology for bombing Desden (its must have been another nation who Bombed London, Liverpool, Coventry etc). By the way if you introduce "AV" Alternative Voting the situation will get worst. We call it Preferential Voting in Australia and guess what, the minorities hold the balance of power and boy don't they use it much to the detriment of the majority. Its apathetic but who cares

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Think if you check you will find out there was a "bit of a difference" between London, Livepool and especially Coventry ( a town Churchill sacrificed ), and Dresden , the war was in it's last phase , Dresden was nothing more than mass genocide on refugees ,some would/could call it a holocaust, (but only one group has 'copy-right' claims to that term ) , women and children who had moved back west from "Greater Germany" , even the British more or less acknowledged this after the war by with-holding a 'Lordship/Title ' to Bomber Harris . :rolleyes:

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

And of course the Native Americans were not driven from their lands and wiped out by the settlers, the new Americans.
Say what you will about Dresden, just who was it who dropped two H Bombs on Japan?
As they say, all is fair in love and war.
Atrocities happen, there is nothing you can do about it.

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

According to German historians 25,000 people died in the Dresden bombings.
43,000 died in the Blitz of the Uk.
The atomic bomb on Hiroshima killed 90,000 people immediately and Nagasaki had 40,000 deaths from the bomb, plus thousands more from radiation poisoning.

As to genocide Hitler and his men sent between 11 million and 17 million to their deaths in the holocaust.

Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
 

Steeljack, Where do you have the evidence for this?

According to, Peter Calvocoressi,in his book Top Secret Ultra, said the following: "Ultra never mentioned Coventry... Churchill, so far from pondering whether to save Coventry or safeguard Ultra, was under the impression that the raid was to be on London."

He was Head of the Air Section at Bletchley Park, the place where they deciphered the Engima Machine messages under the code name of Ultra.

Also R.V Jones, who was the scientist in charge of the fight to jam the Germans radar, called the Battle of the Beams wrote in his book "Enigma signals to the X-beam stations were not broken in time," the X beams being a very accurate German targeting radar.


Thus I find it hard to understand your comment, unless it is referring to Group Captain F. W. Winterbotham's book, The Ultra Secret, in which he claimed that Ultra, the group responsible for cracking the Egnima, decoded a message saying Coventry was to be bombed and that Winston Churchill decided not to order any defensive measures for Coventry, in case the German high command realised we could crack Enigma.

Although Group Captain Winterbotham was the Special Liaison Officer in charge of delivering Ultra's output, his claim has been rejected by others involved in Ultra and historians alike.

20:20 vision is a great thing.