Unions
 

Does anyone take any notice of resolutions passed by Unions?
I did not vote for any union member nor did I vote for the Millbands or the Balls set up.
I have had my fill over the years of the unions who destroyed the car industry,
the ship building and mining industry not forgetting the coal industry.
The present resolutions are based on pension payouts, something that the
majority of people do not get.
I think these resolutions are cobblers and will pass them by.

Re: Unions
 

But many millions of people ARE affected by the pensions changes, and someone has to stand up and voice their concern.

We are not talking just about pensions for fat-cat bureaucrats, but for nurses, cleaners, dinner ladies and carers. They are being made to suffer by the actions of previous governments who saw pension funds as an easy target for "stealing" cash. The Thatcher government in the 1980's reduced the contributions to pension funds which left them underfunded, and this was exacerbated by Gordon Brown's removal of tax concessions for profits made by the funds during the 1990's.

It has left the pension funds in a precarious state. Hyndburn Council's fund, for example, is 48 million pounds underfunded. And so the present government is reducing the amount that people retiring will get from the fund. Future generations are being made to pay for the excesses of the past.

It is not a party political issue, because the sufferers are both Labour and Conservative voters, and the blame lies with previous Labour and Conservative governments. It is something of a national scandal, and the Unions are right to kick up a fuss, as should any organisation representing the interests of older people.

Re: Unions
 

That's all well and good but I never notices anybody taking to the streets when private pensions were hijacked, leaving millions sort on their pensions, if lower pensions is okay for the private sector it sure as hell should be for the public sector, after all the public sector pensions are funded by millions who will never benefit from them in any way shape or form

Re: Unions
 

actually there has been lots of protests at shareholder meetings the mainstream press dont report it because most of these companies have an interest in these corporations or vice versa;)

Re: Unions
 

What the hell has that got to do with the price of fish:eek:

Re: Unions
 

Maybe if more private sector people joined unions they'd've had more protection. Public sector union members do pay subs out of their wages after all.

Re: Unions
 

since Public sector employees are paid through the Public purse its the Private (Tax Paying) employees who are paying these union dues.

something for you to note , the "taxes" paid by Pubic employees are only re-cycled £s collected by taxation that have been previously contributed by folks who create wealth . ;) :rolleyes:

Re: Unions
 

Are you sitting comfortably, steeljack? Then I'll begin........(again!)

Once Upon a Time, there was a big bad public sector worker. He was a happy chappie, protected from the realities of life with his inflation linked salary and his gold plated pension. But he spent his life sponging off everybody else, so something had to be done about him.
Then one day, he lost his job, and couldn’t go to work that morning.
He didn’t get in his car, which stayed in the garage, and didn’t need filling up. So the petrol pump attendant wasn’t needed. Nor did the car need servicing, so the garage mechanic wasn’t needed. He didn’t get the bus, so the bus driver wasn’t needed. Nor did he get the train, so the train driver wasn’t needed, and the conductor on the train wasn’t needed, and the ticket collector wasn’t needed.
He didn’t buy a paper on the way into work, so the news vendor wasn’t needed. He didn’t buy a bar of chocolate, so the kiosk seller wasn’t needed.
He didn’t enter his office, so the receptionist wasn’t needed. He didn’t make a mess, so the cleaner wasn’t needed.
At dinner time, he didn’t go for lunch. So the canteen assistant wasn’t needed. He didn’t nip out for a sandwich, so the sandwich maker wasn’t needed. He didn’t get a drink from the vending machine, so the machine operator wasn’t needed.
On the way home, he hadn’t parked his car, so the car park attendant wasn’t needed. He hadn’t parked his car illegally so the traffic warden wasn’t needed.
He didn’t need to call in the pub on the way home, so the bar worker wasn’t needed.
Instead, he spent the day getting ready to go to the job centre to look for a job in the big bad world. After all, he’d been told that he and 499,999 of his colleagues would be absorbed by the private sector.
But when he got there, he couldn’t get through the door for the crowds of ex petrol pump attendants, garage mechanics, bus drivers, train drivers, conductors, ticket collectors, news vendors, kiosk sellers, receptionists, cleaners, canteen assistants, sandwich makers, machine operators, car park attendants, traffic wardens and bar workers.
So he couldn’t get a job and had to sign on, only to be told there was no money left to give him. And with his gold plated pension gone, there was no way he could possibly live happily ever after.................
The End.

Re: Unions
 

Was that the year after he took 16 weeks paid sick leave 10 weeks paid holidays and 26 weeks paternity leave.:hidewall::hidewall::hehetable

That is a nice story but doesn't add up.

The private sector employees taxes pay for the public sector jobs. Money in the economy is not lost by reducing public sector jobs. Reducing them leaves room for the private sector to grow.

The story is supposed to make you think the whole of the private sector relys on the public sector which is rubbish. It could only be the case if the Government funded the public sector by borrowing rather than taxing the private sector. That is unsustainable and clearly can't continue forever. If that's the case then an urgent rebalancing of the economy is needed.

The second reason the story is a load of nonsense is recent history. In the 1990s for every public sector job lost there were 3 private sector jobs created.

Re: Unions
 

No that was the year before Beni, I know a chap that worked in the public sector and they were allowed 13 weeks a year off sick with full pay, he was very lucky in that respect as he wasn't that good health wise, he was of ill 13 weeks every year:rolleyes:;)

Re: Unions
 

Instead of griping that public sector workers get a better deal than those in the private sector, why not demand the same 'so called' priviledges for all workers?

I expect the response will be 'the country can't afford it' - who says? - it is just a matter of diverting money from war to the benefit of workers.

Re: Unions
 

Spending goes in a circle. Yes, the private sector creates the wealth and pays taxes which fund the public sector. But the story doesn't end there. Part of the wealth the private sector creates is recycled money from the pockets of the public sector, which parts of the private sector come to rely on. It's one big circle, and getting rid of the public sector isn't the answer, because many jobs by definition are not wealth creating..

Yes the public sector have been protected from the market place in the past, and are certainly being made to psy the price in terms of reduced jobs. But on the pensions issue the complaint is that promises previously given, on which personal financial decisions have been made, have been broken.

You can't blame them for protesting about that!

Re: Unions
 

So what if public sector workers are given good conditions on pensions ,sick pay, holidays etc, that doesnt mean they dont do valuable jobs ,police, nurses, doctors,firemen and many others do hard jobs in poor conditions and under a lot of stress.Many taking off no time on the sick for years on end.Do they not contribute to society ? Or is it only private sector workers who keep this country afloat? Also i dont think our armed forces would be to pleased with hearing people complaining about the public sector not contributing do you.

Re: Unions
 

The employees have still worked to earn that money though, mainly motivated by wanting to provide a great service to resident's. So its their money.

Re: Unions
 

Great post!

Re: Unions
 

Almost unreal ain't it?...makes me sick how some people are lickin thier lips at the prospect of this government creating unemployment..those already retired seem indifferent...we always have the "young Mr Andrew" towing his party line... but in a few years time these people might just wonder about the future of thier younger ones who could end up with little chance of work and no chance of a pension... private or state.:rolleyes:

Re: Unions
 

Very good that. Keynesian economics at its best.

Re: Unions
 

the thing is public sector work still needs doing so a private company who will probably fiddle the figures and cost more in the long run thats not very economic Wise Group considers legal action over Work Programme - Third Sector

Re: Unions
 

And the public sector are paying taxes out of their earnings to keep those lazy people who don't want to work in fags, beer and daytime TV.
They are working, adding to the communal pot. They spend in local shops.
I think it is pretty nigh impossible for the private sector to take up the slack of the redundancies in the public sector.

It is also laughable that there is a crackdown on those claiming benefits.........the government is saying they will have to go out to work........doing what? where are all these jobs coming from, Pray tell...they will just shuffle from one type of benefit to another........and we, who pay taxes are keeping them.

Re: Unions
 

agree with you, one of the main providers is an australian company who have failed in other countries and needs to keep its shareholders happy so more money going out the country doesnt make sense:confused:

Re: Unions
 

If public sector employees were not paid from the public purse, who would be responsible for paying them:confused: Maybe the public sector should be privatised, then the private corporations could out source the jobs overseas:rolleyes:

Re: Unions
 

I'm not denying the need for public sector employees, what gets my goat is that private employees pay taxes to employee people who then use their union slush funds for political activism . ie supporting there left wing agendas.
No problem with public employees having the vote , but do complain about left wing ideologies being pushed/
proselytized in what should be a independant place of employment ;)

Re: Unions
 

If you want higher wages, let me tell you what to do;
You got to talk to the workers in the shop with you;
You got to build you a union, got to make it strong,
But if you all stick together, now, 'twont be long.
You'll get shorter hours,
Better working conditions.
Vacations with pay,
Take your kids to the seashore.

It ain't quite this simple, so I better explain
Just why you got to ride on the union train;
'Cause if you wait for the boss to raise your pay,
We'll all be waiting till Judgment Day;
We'll all he buried - gone to Heaven -
Saint Peter'll be the straw boss then.

Now, you know you're underpaid, hut the boss says you ain't;
He speeds up the work till you're 'bout to faint,
You may he down and out, but you ain't beaten,
Pass out a leaflet and call a meetin'
Talk it over - speak your mind -
Decide to do something about it.

'Course, the boss may persuade some poor damn fool
To go to your meeting and act like a stool;
But you can always tell a stool, though - that's a fact;
He's got a yellow streak running down his back;
He doesn't have to stool - he'll always make a good living
On what he takes out of blind men's cups.

You got a union now; you're sitting pretty;
Put some of the boys on the steering committee.
The boss won't listen when one man squawks.
But he's got to listen when the union talks.
He better -
He'll be mighty lonely one of these days.

Suppose they're working you so hard it's just outrageous,
They're paying you all starvation wages;
You go to the boss, and the boss would yell,
"Before I'd raise your pay I'd see you all in Hell."
Well, he's puffing a big see-gar and feeling mighty slick,
He thinks he's got your union licked.
He looks out the window, and what does he see
But a thousand pickets, and they all agree
He's a bastard - unfair - slave driver -
Bet he beats his own wife.

Now, boy, you've come to the hardest time;
The boss will try to bust your picket line.
He'll call out the police, the National Guard;
They'll tell you it's a crime to have a union card.
They'll raid your meeting, hit you on the head.
Call every one of you a goddamn Red -
Unpatriotic - Moscow agents -
Bomb throwers, even the kids.

But out in Detroit here's what they found,
And out in Frisco here's what they found,
And out in Pittsburgh here's what they found,
And down in Bethlehem here's what they found,
That if you don't let Red-baiting break you up,
If you don't let stool pigeons break you up,
If you don't let vigilantes break you up,
And if you don't let race hatred break you up -
You'll win. What I mean,
Take it easy - but take it!

Re: Unions
 

Of course unions will be left-leaning with left wing agendas. And the wealthy, and big business in general, with their right-wing agendas, will donate money to right wing parties. It's the name of the game. Or, at least, how the game is played. In Canada, the unions stand solid behind the New Democratic Party, although individual members vote for other parties.

By the way, there is a chance, according to the polls, that the New Democrats may get enough seats in next week's general election, to form a minority government ... or, at least, lead Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. I wonder how that will go down in Washington:rolleyes:;)

Re: Unions
 

Is this an American thing?.. the public employees in this country include the Police, Nurses, Doctors .. are these people to be stero-typed as left wing?... one thing is for certain when these "workers" unions begin to hold strike ballots this country should take notice ... the present government is probaly the weakest we have had since the 70's .. I've got a feeling those in public service will very soon have to stand up to this governments destruction of the NHS, our defence and the basic safety of it's citizens.. and they have only been in power for a year..

Re: Unions
 

Only a year:eek: Seems like 13:D

Re: Unions
 

So much has been privatised, but has it really beneffited the non-shareholders? There's no real national control over our gas and leccy bills.

Re: Unions
 

true the billions the gas and electric shareholders have made would have staved off cuts to essential services ie closing down of ambulance stations, fire stations ,airforce,army,navy etc..

Re: Unions
 

Considering the Tories did so many things wrong why didn't Labour put them right, after all they did have quite a long time to redress the balance, just forget how long it was now;)

Re: Unions
 

You wouldn't forget if you spent more time on, online bingo, 'Unlucky for some...'
:);)

Re: Unions
 

Ya but if I use those forbidden words the whole of Accy Web descends on me like a ton of bricks, well Ken Moss anyway:D

Re: Unions
 

i agree labour didnt go far enough to create an infrastructure integrated transport system reclaim british gas,electric water etc if we did the profits could have been invested in our infrastrucure which would have strenghtened our economy tenfold by capping energy prices for industry etc to make british industry more competitive in the world market.this is where our ideoligies differ competiveness doesnt need to be ripping off the british worker of his/her rights..

Re: Unions
 

You really don't get it do you ? The Unions at their inception were true to their goals of protecting the work force from being used, abused & hung out to dry by greedy industrialists, that was then this is now. Since the sixties & seventies the Unions have been so far removed from their original intent that they are just as bad, if not worse than the "Greedy Industrials" who they were set up to protect the workforce against !

The modern Union is more akin to a capitalist business than a workers champion, not only do they threaten production & stability with their antics, they denigrate those they claim to help. Using extortion & threats to get their way whether it be against a company or their own members, it appears they inflict more harm than good whenever they get involved.

Have a good look at these "defenders of the oppressed", when they call for action they're fine, it's the mugs who down tools & strike who lose out in the long run, the lads & lasses on the picket lines get sacked by their firms, go without wages while those at the top are lapping it up, you won't see them sharing the deprivations of the "Foot Soldiers". Choose any major strike action you like from the 20th Century, Dockers, Miners, Bin men, who were the ones making the sacrifices & suffering ?

The Unions of today are no longer relevant to their heritage & stated aims & as such are now just self serving entities a socialist/ labour jobs for the boys clique. Still (if you feel that they're doing all they can for you ?) well carry on paying your subs & hope that when you need them they really will be there for you, but I wouldn't be so sure.

While millions take pay cuts, union leaders rake it in | Workers' Liberty


LocalGov.co.uk: Union bosses attacked over six-figure salaries | Home | The TaxPayers' Alliance

Re: Unions
 

Your like the Manc down London you both live in cloud cockoo land

Re: Unions
 

Good post Dave, My father was always a member of the Union, in fact when I was very young I actually went to meetings with him, they were held somewhere on Cannon Street Accrington but can't remember where now. He had an accident at work, and asked the Union to take up his case, after weeks of uming and haing they said they would, I actually went with my father to see the Union Rep for this are a chap called Ken Edmondson, was maintenance Joiner at Highams on factory bottom, I distinctly remember the old fella tell Mr Edmondson exactly where he could stick his union card and on what shelf;)

Re: Unions
 

A great post DinG, you have got it totally correct - do any of the Trade Union leaders refuse their fatcat salaries when the rank and file of the Union goes on strike at their bidding?

Re: Unions
 

;)i think you need a ballot before you go on strike:rolleyes:

Re: Unions
 

Cmonstanley
That is what I call a rebuttal, pure genius.:confused:

So do you have nothing to say about the huge salaries and perks your precious Union leaders get...


That said I am in BALPA, not a union as such....

Re: Unions
 

He never has much to say when it comes to trying to justify his comments BG;)

Re: Unions
 

I don't recall that they went anywhere along those lines .

Re: Unions
 

bus lanes was a start:)

Re: Unions
 

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: Love yer sense of humour. that was a Tea spat on keyboard moment.