Labour's real legacy
 

In the style of Cmon, 1 in 4 primary school leavers are illiterate.
The source, UK Schools in Crisis | Oxbridge Essays

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

So thats the reason;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Before our tame Jock comes on I suggest you have a read at this: BBC NEWS | UK | Education | Grammar schools - why all the fuss?

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

It said on Radio 4 this afternoon that this was an improvement on previous figures. I think by and large Labour's legacy is good one. The first post war government to cut crime - by 42%! Educational standards rising amongst middle and upper class. Black marks for working class which has been static. Kings Fund says the NHS is no longer the sick man of Europe (and on the verge of collapse) and doing very well. Introduced current welfare to work policy in 2008. Late but effective. Introduced points system on immigration. Tories don't seem to be able to go further. Real issues around border control.

When you consider what Labour inherited. A national debt of 42%. Crime out of control. Schools with leaky roofs and portakabins. NHS with people waiting on trolleys in corridors and waiting lists that lasted years and years.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Labour's legacy?

Ensuring equality for all, by getting rid of archaic laws regarding gender.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Graham, you didn't cut crime, you tied the police so much in paperwork no one can be bothered to report stuff anymore, house broken into? Heres a crime number and the finger print boys will be with you in a week....

Far more emphasis on speed cameras than having police on the roads, I see less than 5 police cars a week on my 120 miles a day journey, in that I probably see 3-4 illegal acts each journey, with no police out and about it all goes un noticed.

I have interviewed uni grads that cant spell simple words or hold a decent conversation, they seem to believe they are "owed" a job yet they are in no way fit for employment. The simple fact its that uni should be for the cream of the crop, not a way to hide youth unemployment.....

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

That has full agreement from me, basically any half wit can go to uni these days. n that detracts from the good uns imho.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Labour winning the General Election in '97 seemed as radical as the Russian Revolution.

Growing up under Thatcherism was akin to living in Imperial Russia. Their divine right to rule seemed as if it would go on forever.

Change seemed needed, and it was all very exciting and hopeful.

Ultimately it all became as grey, bland, and corrupt as the U.S.S.R. in the forties under Stalin.

It was just an exchange of an imperial autocrat for a egotistical despot.

I expect greed and selfishness of the Tories, it's all the more disappointing when supposedly socialists show the same traits.

Sadly, for many, power seems to corrupt.

The final nail in New Labour's coffin was Brown saying this, about an ordinary, working class woman...

‪Gordon Brown v Gillian Duffy‬‏ - YouTube

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Same old complaint from labour when they took over from the conservatives in 1997 for two years they carried on with Tories fiscal policies then when they had to think for themselves they got the country into the worst recession, along with the banks that they didn't control. Things can only get better and sadly the country believed the the biggest lying bastard leader this country has ever had leading it. Now he tours the world adding to his bank balance why the rest of us suffer possible long term hardship.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Didn't think anyone was that dumb.........i was wrong.:D

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I think it is wrong to try to get more young people to go into further education.....a university degree isn't the be all and end all in life.
Success should not be measured by whether you achieved a university education.......it should be measured by the usefulness of your own life.
Not all jobs require a degree.
We raise the expectations of our children, we tell them get an education and you will get a job..it doesn't always work like that.(especially if your chosen degree cannot be supported by work in the area you chose to study)
My advice to youngsters would be find a job...any job. find out what it is like to work for a living...even if that means punching a clock card.
If you don't know what career path to take then it is useless to do some Mickey Mouse degree course, purely so that you can say you have a degree.
Find something you like doing...then get someone to pay you for it, and you will have a happy life.
You don't stop learning just because you have left school.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Me and Cashy have a theory.

The collective psyche of the British people changed forever in May 1979.

Perhaps our politicans are like our newspapers.

We get what we demand...and therefore deserve.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Spot on rindy.;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

How can you demand something that isn't there?
It is like going into a shop for a pound of apples....the chap says 'We haven't any apples'....and you come away having bought a bag of spuds(mouldy rotten ones at that...because you were not allowed to really see what you were buying)
To me that sums up politics.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Welcome to Toryism Margaret. :D:D:D

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

In my area at work it is ~80% grads, 20% thickos, (I'm in the thickos btw), I would have the 20 % over the 80 any day apart from a very few select intelligency...

It's not what you were taught, its what you know that counts imho

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Sorry, just means ever to get re-elected, Labour had to ditch socialism, and out Tory the Tories, to have any appeal to the country.

That's why Thatcher liked Blair.

He was her heir apparent.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I was lucky.

I was an infuriating clever clogs years before I ever graduated.

:D

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Spot on again, had same discussion wi jaysay a while back n he didn't disagree.;) in fact the only people i ever spoke too,that don't get it are those that were too young or not born then. n ones brewing up now. pmsl

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I agree Blair and "New Labour" did ditch socialism not only to be more appealing to the electorate, but to be more attractive to the age old Tory press.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Yes.

Blair whored himself to the press barons, and was amply rewarded for his favours.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Will you explain that for me please?

I don't think one party is guilty of this ploy. They all do it.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

If voting really changed anything ....do you think they would allow us to do it?

All parties are guilty of the same behaviour. On the run up to elections they make promises that they have no way of knowing whether they will be able to fulfil(mainly because only the party in government have the true picture of the countries economic health)....they tell us what they think we want to know/hear.

None of the political parties listen to those who put them into the jobs they hold..

So, I don't really agree that our present situation is all down to choices we made in the past.
You can only choose between a set of equally untruthful men and women who have their own agendas in mind....not the good of the country.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

the public were brain washed by news international,dumbed down by sky etc. off topic but what other newspaper did murdoch shut down in the nineties;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

here here:thumbsup:

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Crime was cut. Police say so. Resident groups say so. Michael Howard says so. Even local Tories say so. Living in Peel Ward it is obvious to all crime has been cut considerably.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

After Thatcher came to power in '79, the country rejected the Labour party of Foot and Kinnock, time after time.

The majority of the British people made their choices.

Hence Labour ditched anything vaguely socialist, and were reborn as something new. New Labour.

The same thing happened to the Tories, when people chose not to elect them, thrice consecutively, and thought they'd become unelectable.

They weren't the choice of the majority, so they aped New Labour, dropped 'hang 'em and flog 'em', in favour of the caring and sharing, and not forgetting hoodie hugging.

Through our choices we have been left with near identical mainstream poltical parties, peopled by careerist politicans, nearly all from a few public schools, and with similar degrees from Oxbridge.

We do get what we demand.

It's supply and demand.

Same as printed media.

Yes we have a few serious publicatons, but our biggest selling magazine's big news story this week is that the girls from The Only Way is Essex are on a diet, and our newspaper with the highest circulation is full of tits, telly, and tedious titillation.

We do make choices, and therefore are supplied with what others think will satisfy those choices.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

You'd need to be dumbed up, before the dumbing down could take place.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Though this certainly wasn't the case with immigration.

More than three million migrants under Labour - Telegraph

Though that's only offical immigration figure, and doesn't count the appalling attempts to stem illegal immigration in the last decade, and Labour's support for an ever expanding boundry of the E.U., and the fact that milions more will be making their way to our shores.

Though of course we all know that even raising this issue risks the label of bigot or racist, as Gillian Duffy found out after meeting Prime Ministar Brown.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

...and let's not forget the gravest impediment ever made to British law and justice, the Human Right Acts, 1998.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

i remember the sun saying turn out the lights if thats not influencing;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

The press barons will say whatever you want.

If you gave the ability to stick your nose up their arses for long enough.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-...ir390-9186.jpg

;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

he musta forgot that un.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

yep the blair witch project;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

The press barons will say whatever you want.

If you have the ability to stick your nose up their arses for long enough.



Why do I only see my glaring mistakes after the edit button's vanished?

I blame politicans, and the cuts.

:D

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I agree with some of what you say. But I must be in a minority Because I do not choose most of the things you have mentioned. When the choices are poor(because all the parties are so similar) then really you are left with no choice
Lots of people missed the bit where the Labour party became a pale version of the tory party(just so that the public would elect it)...they still labour under the misconception that because it is the Labour party, then surely that means they hold socialist values.
They vote for an ideology that no longer exists as a mainstream party. Tony Blair and his new Labour was the best tory government we have had for a long time. No wonder Margaret Thatcher liked him.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

There seem to be a lot of Accywebbers who wish the Labour party would return to its leftwing socialist roots.

This puzzles me slightly, as it appears to me that socialism is about far more than just a fair deal for the working man, protecting the NHS and the welfare state etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, leftwing socialism in the UK includes a liberal attitude towards immigration including a sympathetic approach to asylum seekers, an emphasis on rehabilitation rather than retributive punishment for criminals, a generally positive approach towards the EU (an "internationalist" approach as Bernard once pointed out) and an observance of what many on here would perceive as PC attitudes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising any of the above opinions (in this particular discussion). In fact, as a part-time Accyweb bleeding heart liberal, I might even agree with some of them. But I would've thought they would've been total anathema for a lot of the people who are calling for a return to socialism.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

You'll always have a few die-hard party faithful.

However lots of people didn't miss the formation of the new look New Labour, as they won on one of the biggest swings in history, after years in the wilderness.

Just as the Tories did, when they changed to be more appealing, after being written off by many as unelectable.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Socialism is dead.

I doubt there are many who mourn it's passing.

It was basically flawed, in that the majority of people don't like being equal to everyone else.

Human nature dictates those people like to think they are better than others.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Jesus was a socialist.

However the Christian church had to airbrush that concept, in order to make it appealing to the masses.

Otherwise it would never have caught on with many.

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/mystiques/1eveque.gif

:D

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

You could well be right about the death of socialism G. especially when, before the last election, Tony Benn said, when asked if it was time to move back to socialism he said no, those days are behind us now

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Very true. I did not go to uni, I could have but I did not think I was smart enough and wanted to start working. I have done ok by hard work and continually trying to better myself so I dont think I missed out.

The problem with almost forcing people to go to uni for sometimes pointless courses is there are no jobs for them at the end of it.

We have a shortage of craftsmen and labourers in this country because everyone thinks they need to go to uni. These jobs are being picked up by people from other countries but we still have a large number of unemployed people. Its a bit stupid and that is being kind.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

And we are stuck with Capitalism . :eek:

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Think that a fair assessment of the situation Neil, when I was at school only a very few went on to Uni were pupils those pupils who attended the Grammar school or Girls High school, very few went from schools such as Holy Family (Mt Carmel) Rhyddings St. Christopher's, Hollins, Norden it just didn't happen, which meant more people went into local jobs joiners bricklayers plumbers and the like, and without seeming sexist in those days it was generally thought that women, although they would get a job when leaving school they would usually get married and be the home maker and bring up the kids, but its not so today and I think society is better for it in that respect.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

As is the world JCB;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Historically it's proved more successful than socialism, when it comes turning an ideology into a reality.

I agree about delaying employment, by sending people on Micky Mouse university courses.

I disagree with art being taught as an academic subject.

Most of our greatest artists and designers don't have degrees.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

[quote=garinda;923402

Most of our greatest artists and designers don't have degrees.[/quote]

Tracey Emin does.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Thick the term artiste should be used very loosely where shes concerned Tealeaf:rolleyes:

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I agree and think I made that point earlier in the thread.

There was something in one of the newspapers recently, to say that those children who aren't academically gifted should be allowed to leave school at 14 and take a job........where are these jobs that they want 14 year olds to do?

I think that somewhere along the way, the work ethic has been lost.
Welfare benefits are to blame for this. It is(for some people) easier to claim benefits than to go out to work.
Whole families who have never worked,(and so have never paid into the system they are draining) and don't want to work, are crippling the country.

It may not be PC to say this, but that is how I see it.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

My eldest granddaughter is taking an art degree at Manchester.
It is geared towards animation (cartoons) and illustration (of books I suppose). These skills are needed in the media and advertising industry.

I don't suppose that a naturally gifted arty person would know how to produce cartoons, so the training and the degree would be useful.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Having a honours degree in art myself, I disagree.

I see study in this area as futhering a skill, or learning a craft.

I don't think it's necessary for this to be studied as a academic subject.

I certainly knew very talented people who were denied access to further education at the highest level, because they didn't have enough O/A-level passes to qualify for entry.

The most commercially successful artist I know didn't even go to art school. He apprenticed himself to a painter straight after his O-levels.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Regarding art, having a degree never secured me one job.

That was down to whatever talent I may have, and not a piece of paper.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I know innumerous people who have studied for degrees in sport, or media.

None subsequently gained employment in those, or even remotely similar fields.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

How many times do you see people on TV who say they have a degree yet are doing only the most menial jobs, can't see the point myself

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

a lot of the time people do not want to pay the wage that a graduate would expect to get....and because they want to work and minimise their student debt, they will take any job they can get.
After all you have to live, to eat, to keep a roof over your head....and it is always easier to get a job when you are in a job.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I know a bloke who went to university and qualified as a metallurgist or something apparently he was very clued up with mining and soils and that kind of thing, he first went to live in Africa where he worked on mining projects for a few years, then came back here since when he has never worked because he said no one can pay him the wage he deserves, this guy is so well train he is actually classed as a professor, yet he hasn't worked since around 1978 marvelous ain't it

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Is that not because they dont need someone with a degree to do the job?

Why would an employer pay more just because someone is over qualified for a job?

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Ya don't need a degree to stack shelves at ASDA;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

It could very well be the case Neil.
But we are giving our youngsters the message that if they go to Uni, work hard and get a degree,it will open doors for them....and it just doesn't happen like that....... unless the degree is in a subject that the jobs market has need of.
We should be advising our youngsters to look at what jobs are in the jobs market before they embark on a degree.....and to get a degree that they can see is what employers want......this is not to say, that in the three years it takes to get a degree, the jobs market won't have changed.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

This bloke has a degree in art. It's not garinda, surely?:D:D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/images/...55_640_360.jpg

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

If thats Art then its shiite.
Retlaw.

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

I'd never class myself as an artist.

People employed me because I was good at what I did, and they profited from my skills.

The only thing I do artfully is live.

;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

banks were already unregulated before labour and if you think labour brought the world in to recession you must be mad but the tony blair thing anybody would do the same thing coining it in his name they dont need to pay him its a choice maybe the outside world are either mad or know something we dont;):rolleyes:

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

its a changed world now you even need a licence to work behind a bar;):D

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

Though I don't thenk you need one to be a dog stab fleer.

;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

You should need a licence to read the Guardian, or at least be certified;)

Re: Labour's real legacy
 

:thankya:


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