The Mayor
 

this is a question I have asked many times in different locations so will give it a punt here.

Should the position of mayor be kept within the political arena, or should it be as was originaly intended, awarded to a leading citizen who had done most for the community.
It is only recently that the position of mayor was made a political appointment, despite politicians taking over the roll of mayor for many years. Now that councillors get paid for their services should it be a non political appointment.

For example why not the ex chairman of the local lions club or the rotary club, or some other organisation that operates a voluntary service to the community.
This would stop the appointment of a mayor for political gain as we have seen in the past.



I think I need a lie down now all the blood has rushed to my head.

Re: The Mayor
 

Yes, before it became a political appointment, the role of mayor was open to everyone.

Everyone, as long as you were one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the borough.

Not something I'll lose sleep worrying about.

Antiquated, and purely a meaningless position now.

I'd happily support an annual compatition in the Observer, in which we decide on some nice old dear to be our symbolic first citizen, and who opens a few chuch fetes.

Re: The Mayor
 

What about the role the Mayor has in the Council meetings?
Who should do that do you think?

Re: The Mayor
 

I know its antiquated, but we still have it, and it is used for politcal manouvering. We used to have kids down the mines but we improved that position,so lets improve the position of mayor, lets have a leading citizen operating on a voluntary basis, campaigning for better facilities for people in the borough. Forget the opening of this and that and cutting ribbons and kissing babies, lets support better hospital facilities, better bus services, a cleaner and greener borough, council services have declined right accross the board, lets get those back up to a decent standard. A mayor with non political affiliations could do that as no party line had to be thought about. I know the position of mayor should be a non political role, but certain appointments in the past have proved it is used to support the balance of power.

right I'm of for a lie down again

Re: The Mayor
 

Chair/speaker/whatever.

They can take it in turn, electing who they like, to ensure their meetings run successfully..

No need for that chair to do all the ribbon cutting, and associated pomp that goes with the mayoral role now. Which is basically just a prize, awarded to councillors who've kept their nose relatively clean for the longest time.

I'd much prefer a borough wide poll for someone to represent us as a symbolic first citizen, who'd done something worthwhile.

Councillors, of course, would be free to enter.

Re: The Mayor
 

The mayor has casting votes and chairs the meetings, this could be done on a non politcal basis, as the mayor should be non political in his time as mayor. I'v attended a few coucil meetings in my time and the behaviour of some members can only be described as shamefull, so perhaps a different approach to council meetings would also be a good idea

Re: The Mayor
 

I don't remember hearing much of the role of mayors in improving workers' rights, and stopping the poor little kiddies from working down the pits.

Don't get too worked up.

I also believe having an unelected head of state is antiquated too.

I also do away with them, as well as mayors, and have another newspaper competition to replace them with some nice old biddy, who'd spent their life doing unsung good.

;)

Re: The Mayor
 

Turning the mayor into an active political, campaiging role, who is elected by the area as a whole is a horrible idea.

Another layer to add, to our already many layered system of government.

Besides, even worse, that's what they do in the country with the KKK and Micky Mouse.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/4t...ng-us-flag.gif

Re: The Mayor
 

A Mayor can't do that, lack of funds is the biggest reason Council services have declined.

Year after year of cuts, they like to call them 0% rise in Council Tax while the cost of everything like wages and fuel goes up which means less money to spend on improving Council services.

I am going before I start ranting again :D

Re: The Mayor
 

This is vaguely similar to what we have in Kingston. The Mayor is elected at large, and the councillors are elected in the individual wards. The Mayor acts as the chairman of the council, and votes only in the case of a tie. Any citizen of Kingston can run for Mayor ... but big bucks and organization are important ... well, kind of essential. We do not, however, have party politics complicating the business of running the city.

Re: The Mayor
 

The Mayor is our representative in other boroughs and in my view it is worthwhile having one. The ribbon cutting, plaque unveiling, etc is quite an event for the people who are actually in attendance and most people are thrilled that the Mayor has come to open their fete or whatever. This is certainly true of the various Rishton organisations and The People's Centre are delighted that Cllr McCormack has agreed to be President of the Board and open their special coffee mornings. The Mayor also does incessant work raising money for local charities and there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes which is to the good of the borough. It is a very hard job and not for the fainthearted or those with a lack of time.

On the other hand, the politicising of the role in recent years brought the matter to Overview and Scrutiny and we drew up a Mayoral Constitution as a result. Regardless of who gets the position, you always run the risk of someone trying to twist his or her arm in the right direction but it is a post worth having on the council.

Can you imagine returning to the days of Council Leaders unveiling plaques?

Re: The Mayor
 

Would the people who get 'thrilled' by the Mayor's attendance, not be equally thrilled if their event had been opened by old Doris?

The old woman who lived in a shoe, who had spent her life quietly fostering 901 children, and who had been awarded the prize of being the symbolic first citizen by the readership of the local paper.

Quite frankly I don't have a problem with the system as it is, a reward for long standing councillors, because it works.

As for being thrilled by the position, that really depends on which councillor has been awarded the mayoral chains of office that year.

Some past mayors would leave most folks totally unthrilled by their presence.

:rolleyes:

Re: The Mayor
 

Unless the prize of mayoral office is attached like a carrot to the end of a stick, and dangled infront of a donkey, to make it do what you want.

Former Labour loyalist props up the Tories | Accrington Observer - menmedia.co.uk

:rolleyes:

Re: The Mayor
 

Difficult to disagree with your last line but by and large it is generally considered quite a coup if the Mayor drops in to open a local event. Over the past few years I know that the Mayors have attended in excess of 500 events each in their respective tenures and it's not a post that I would like to be awarded without some warning.

Dear old Doris may deserve the post but I'm not sure she'd appreciate being killed off by the workload...

Re: The Mayor
 

It is a very interesting point and one well worth discussing. The disgraceful goings on over the last 8 years have left the Mayoral office somewhat trashed by political leadership. At least 3 of the last 5 nominated may not have had the job but for political intervention, usually to 'get them out of the way/make them look important'.

I have raised with a few members the idea we should review sometime in the future the role and who could be offered the role.

1. Alderman incl. former Mayors
2. Civic Leaders (non political)
3. Former Mayors still standing - 5 year gap or 2 years running?

I know the Labour Party wants to democratise in the fairest sense proceedings. Video, important civic leaders as guests, transparent procedures.

What we must do is make sure the office is never abused again for political gain and that those serving the good office, deserve it.

Re: The Mayor
 

I hope the days of The Carrot Dangler are over forever.

Some of the changes recommended by O&S and approved by Cabinet include becoming Deputy Mayor the year before you assume office to give you a run-in period to learn the ropes and also rotating the appointment each year between political parties. Such a rule has always been a 'gentlemen's agreement' up until now but certain people feel that this may be susceptible to abuse. No councillor can be Mayor unless he or she has been on the council at least four years which makes sense to me as you really need to have a grip on the job to be an effective Mayor.

Next year the position of Deputy Mayor (and therefore Mayor in 2013-14) will be offered to the Conservatives as it is their turn although whoever puts up for it will have to command a majority approval vote at the full council as is the same with everybody else.

Re: The Mayor
 

Well when I first got involved in politics in Ossy there wasn't a Mayor (think there was a mayor in Accrington at the same time) there was a chairman of the council, which seemed to alternate between political parties on the basis of time served, more like a thank you for the unpaid (yes unpaid) work they had done for the town.

Then the reorganisation came in during the early 70s, when Hyndburn was born, at first the same principals were implied, If I remember rightly the first mayor was Wallace Haines (labour) there was also an unwritten rule, that if the Mayor elect was up for re-election prior to his/her year of office, he/she would be unopposed, that went through the window in 1987 I think when Labour stood a candidate against Mayor elect Bill Parkinson.

I still think that the position of Mayor must come from the political system, nothing else would really work, when you actually think about it.

Re: The Mayor
 

If councillors wanted to improve services they should give up the pay and allowances system, and be a voluntary servant to the people again. :dflam:

Re: The Mayor
 

You could say that about MPs too but there's the old saying you pay peanuts you get monkey's, in this day and age its a none starter, people have to get time of work to carry out council duties. Councils are now multi-million pound businesses that is why they now pay allowances, so as to attract people with enough nous to do the job in hand

Re: The Mayor
 

Has the work of Hyndburn Council increased or decreased in the last 20 to 30 years ?

Just two examples ; the Council has no council housing to manage and no fleet of buses with their drivers and conductors to manage .

Re: The Mayor
 

I supposed it depends on what you call long term.

Re: The Mayor
 

Just a question, is the car that is sometimes parked outside the Town Hall with the Hyndburn crest on the back doors the mayor's car?

Re: The Mayor
 

Don't think that old adage works, when I started my apprenticeship councillors were not paid , and the standards were far superior than they are today. Plus most of the workforce in my old department are now agency staff, and most of the work now gets undertaken by the private sector. none of which have the required indepth knowledge or training.
This may have saved money but the public are not well served. To get back on topic a mayor with no affiliations would be able to at least strive towards a better service based on what the public deserve, not what they think it should cost.

Re: The Mayor
 

Yes and it comes with a driver, a mayors attendant,and social secretary.

Re: The Mayor
 

Thanks Davemac.

I walked past the Town Hall 1 night last week and noticed the car parked there.

Just another question,

why does the Mayor need a brand spanking new 61 reg car?

Who pays for it?

Re: The Mayor
 

I also said...

'a prize, awarded to councillors who've kept their nose relatively clean for the longest time.'

That's the hard bit, for some.

http://www.smileystar.com/smileys/ms...t%20smiley.gif

:rolleyes:

Re: The Mayor
 

YOU do, I do ,every ratepayer does. The mayor gets picked up at home, taken wherever, then returned home. Wouldn't it be nice to see the mayor on the bus in full regalia

Re: The Mayor
 

the car is probably leased ... thats why its a new one.

davemac .. full regalia .. could you imagine them getting mugged for the chains of office .. oh and not all the places they visit are on a bus route you know ...

do people not realise it can cost the mayor money to be the mayor ...

Re: The Mayor
 

Mayors of Accrington 1878 -1973

The Mayor's Office - Past Mayors of Accrington 1878 -1973


I still think most of the associated mayoral fancy dress garb, invented by the Victorians, was what was left over after putting on a pantomime of Dick Whittington.

Re: The Mayor
 

The reward bit suggests they have done something that deserves a reward and I am not convinced that is the case.


I would like to know what the cost to Hyndburn is for having a Mayor. Including the Officer time, car costs etc etc.

Re: The Mayor
 

Blimey.

You've turned ever so critical of what goes on at H.B.C.

Since May, 2010.

We've been paying for a Mayor since 1878.

Why the sudden interest in how much it's costing?

:rolleyes::D

Re: The Mayor
 

Blimey, indeed:rolleyes:

Re: The Mayor
 

Was the car made in Britain? And can the attendant and secretary speak Lancashire?

Re: The Mayor
 

Let he who is without sin cast the first aspersion.

My spidey sense suspects that come next May the cost implications will be less keenly bandied about if my prediction as to the next Tory mayoral candidate is proven correct.

Still got to be voted through full council though.

With a majority.

Re: The Mayor
 

Not a sudden interest on the cost of having a mayor at all.

I have dug out a couple of my old posts about my thoughts on wasting money on a mayor. I had forgotten how sarcastic I used to be and enjoyed looking back at old posts :D



From 1/3/2006
From 21/2/2008

Re: The Mayor
 

I don't care if its Elvis it is still an unnecessary expense.

I agree with what Graham said in this thread

Re: The Mayor
 

I think that's a very simplistic way of looking at things, when I first became involved in local politics nearly 50 years ago councillors weren't paid, but its an all new ball game today, councillors are on call 24/7 and believe me, although I've never been a councillor, dealing with the general public is no easy job, because everybody knows how to run the council, from the armchair, but very few are prepared to stick their toe in the water and have a try themselves. Regardless of party I have always said people who take on public duties as a councillor deserve everything they get, because the man in the street is the hardest person to deal with in the world

Re: The Mayor
 

Exactly Jen the chain alone must be worth thousands and being the mayor does cost money

Re: The Mayor
 

It was a bit tongue in cheek, I think the chain of office should be placed in an envelope and sent of to cash my gold chain of office and the proceeds given to charity, (tongue firmley in place again). I worked for the council for almost 40 years and can report from up close some of these public servants are muppets, serving only themselves. just now and again you get a good egg. That is why the mayorship should be seperate from the council, with the only brief being, help the people, for the people, by the people, slight paraphrase there.

So to get back on topic, the office of mayor should not be a political appointment, but a voluntary position, people who help the people for no reward or recognition.

Right after that I am back off to my darkened room for a bowl of pobbies and a cup of complan:dflam:

Re: The Mayor
 

Ya think thats just about right for you the pobbies and complan;)

Re: The Mayor
 

oooh matron:thankya:

Re: The Mayor
 

I do agree John. You are pragmatically right on both points. For such a lucrative job there is hardly anyone in the queue which says it all.

Whilst buses, houses and energy have gone, leisure half gone the areas have increased and people are more demanding.

Where the Council would do a few basic things, they now have to respond to a a public that has fragmented into many lobbying groups demanding this minor service and that minor service be added to the pubic purse. Notably health and wellbeing where knowledge and advances have outstripped resources.

I bet back in the day Hyndburn's Council's did not a clinical waste collection for example. Now Councillors are expected to be on every resident group giving many voluntary hours. Gone are the days where all you did was one meeting every two months in the town hall.

The clear answer to removing politicians allowances is have a queue of civic minded people willing to do it for free. That will be the day.

Back on thread. There needs to be a review of the Mayorality some time in the future. Maybe one for Ken to look at in his capacity.

Re: The Mayor
 

The thing that amazes me about you is you claim to have worked for HBC for 40 years, which is quite strange because it hasn't been in existence that long;)and if you did have a history of service for HBC can we assume that you upheld the principles you would like to impose on councillors, working for nothing, after all's said and done if you expect councillors to give up I would think on average 20 hours a week to council duties then surely you must have been prepared to do the same for the good of the community yourself, just a thought:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)

Re: The Mayor
 

They posted they worked for 'the council'.

Re: The Mayor
 

...and of course, councillors should be recompensed for (some of) their time and effort.

Otherwise we'd go back to a time in which only the wealthy could afford to be councillors.

Re: The Mayor
 

Ya for 40 years the council (Hyndburn hasn't been in existans that long;)

Re: The Mayor
 

garinda got it correct, I worked for THE COUNCIL for 40 years, Accrington coporation before that.
so jaysay if in doubt read the instuctions, you always seemed like a nice bloke when we spoke on the phone and you were very pleasant when we shook hands.
I think this thread has attracted some shapers and movers, and yes I did put time in for nothing, attending evening meetings and working past closing time , ask gjones he used to come in my office late fridays and apart from the cleaners we were the only ones there.

Re: The Mayor
 

Its quite obvious you have one up on me, as you seem to know me, which is always an advantage, when in this sort of debate, if you don't want to reveal your Identity on here, which is quite understandable, send me a PM so I'm not shooting in the dark, doing that sometimes means you miss the intended target;)

Re: The Mayor
 

the names the same, and i introduced myself to you at a mayors inorguration (cant remember which one but it was a few years ago now), which in light of the thread topic could suggest I know what I am talking about, possibly, well I might, then again im not sure, ok i dont,
I am typing this in crayon as i am not allowed anything sharp in here.

ok nurse Ill get back in bed.


if i made an instantly forgetable impression and you havent a clue who i am then i will send a pm, I will have to talk to my therapist first though.

Re: The Mayor
 

Well I've only been to one Mayoral do since 1993 that was 2000 when Doug Hayes was Mayor, on that occasion I met quite a few Officers who I had spoken to often on the phone over preceding years, you must have worked in the Works Department or Environmental Health, so a PM might help:D

Re: The Mayor
 

Yeah, ok.

I believe you.

It's just the other '95%' you've got to convince.

;)

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...tml#post939097

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ing-59650.html

Re: The Mayor
 

Well our MP had the opportunity to explain himself in the Observer this weekend in his column, did he, did he hell, the whole column was is usual lets attack to government, telling the good people of Hyndburn just how the the country was being mismanaged bla bla bla bla, if I wanted diatribe like that I'd buy the Mirror, Guardian and Independent every morning. His column might have been put to better use, like explain why we thought he should deny those who elected him the right to have a say on Europe and why he put party before people, instead of the unadulterated crap he decided to bore the pants of every one with:(