Those who should- don't.
 

So we have teachers who can't/don't teach, police who can't/don't police,civil servants who aren't civil to us, public servants who don't want to bother with the public.
Now we have nurses who don't nurse! 50 out of 100 hospitals sub-standard care for the elderly, 20 of them so bad some were commiting crimes!
How can anyone, especially a nurse, leave a helpless person dying for lack of water, leave a meal when they're asleep and take it away before they waken up, leave them in their own mess and ignore them when they ask for help?
The usual cry of ' We're overworked, understaffed' doesn't wash. The investigators found some hospitals with poor facilities and low staff gave excellent care, some with good facilities and full staff levels were terrible.
It's not the staffing levels, it's the staff! Blaming 'Management' isn't good enough either although they should never allow this to happen.
These ward staff aren't just 'walking by on the other side'. They're causing death by neglect.How can they do it and how do we stop it?

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I'm sure there'll be posts from people much better qualified to comment than myself.

However, I firmly believe nursing should not be taught as an academic subject.

Yes you need a good educational standard, but I believe more emphasis should be placed on whether student nurses show a natural aptitude to actually nurse 'people', rather than if they are deemed capable of academic success, achieved mainly through studying books.

You're rght. How coud anyone with an ounce of humanity withold dignified care, from those who most need it?

The whole nursing recruitment procedure needs overhauling.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Some of the nurses I've had the misfortune to come in contact in the last few years, I wouldn't employ in a kennels.

Without generalising too much, many, not all, were male nurses.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Maybe they could get some of the non-nursing managerial staff who probably outnumber nurses 10-1 in the NHS to pick up a spoon and feed a patient.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

The ratio of managerial staff to clinical staff (Dr, nurses etc) is 998 clerical staff to every 1000 clinicians, one to one basically, you tell me which business could run on that type of ratio, they'd soon go bump

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I know one which has a ratio of one manager to one dogsbody, oh hang on you might be right :D

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I heard this on the news and wondered if when they found 20 were committing crimes they brought the police in and arrested the CEO who is supposed to be responsible for that sort of stuff.

My guess would be no they did not and if not why not?

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I couldn't agree more, jaysay, but the investigators made it clear that staffing levels weren't the cause-it was attitude. I've seen it and so has my wife- luckily we weren't helpless but next time??

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I agree rindi i had the misfortune of being in the care (and i use that word in its loosest sense)of a male nurse when i had an op on a broken collarbone (rugby injury) and i think he'd been kicked out of the gestapo for cruelty, i also think nursing is 70% empathy and 30% book learning.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I have my own views on this.
Taking nurses out of local schools of Nursing and putting them into Universities was not a good move(IMHO).
I served a sort of apprenticeship....a sandwich course in nursing. We were taught that the patients needs were paramount......they came above everything else(including meal breaks).

My experience of the University student nurses was that they were not interested in doing the basic stuff. Washing bottoms, changing patients, bathing patients, feeding patients(all activites which have such a personal touch to them, and which often lead patients to tell you their fears and worries....which you would never otherwise have known....and which you could then address)all they wanted to do was the technical things.

If I was going into nursing now, I would not be accepted. My education would not be deemed good enough........I would have had to go to college to do a foundation course.

I am glad I did my nursing when I did, because it was the best of times. the bit I enjoyed the most was caring for patients.......doing for them what I would want for a member of my own family....treating them with dignity.
We were not well paid and we worked very hard......but working hard is never a chore if you enjoy what you are doing.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

That is a very sad statement, and just shows how wrong the whole system is.

You, or someone like you, should be in charge of nursing recruitment nationwide.

Stuff degrees.

Bring back kindness, and human decency.

There are still good nurses.

Though fewer than there used to be.

When you're vunerable you're in much need of gentle kindness, as you are of medicine.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I'd just like to point out that Margaret won the prize for best student nurse, whilst doing her training.

Both her, and her daughter have the natural skills and aptitude, that make them both 'people persons', and ideal healing nurturers.

There should be more in the profession like them.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Yes G, you are right. It saddens me that there are people out there who would make excellent carers......because they have the practical skills, but are rejected because they don't have paper qualifications.
Some of the very best caring lessons I learned were from untrained(but very experienced) nursing auxiliaries.

There is also and issue of understaffing too...which I think has got much worse.(I noticed this when Ma was in hospital after her stroke)
When understaffing is talked of it isn't just numbers of people doing the caring, it is the right kind of carers...the ratios of trained to untrained(obviously it is cheaper to pay someone who is untrained).

You are right about kindness....and being made to feel important, they are as important as medicine.........when there is no time to be kind, it is indeed a very sad situation.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Oh G........I'm blushing now!

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Margaret, you were one of the nurses I remember from my youth, nothing like a lot of the ones I've met in the last few years.
One of the things which really annoyed me was when 6 or more of them(why so many?)sat round the night desk, talking, laughing and keeping us awake. But heaven help anyone who rang their bell or shouted for help!

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Gordon, I don't know...but there were not that many nurses on days when my Ma was in after her stroke.......they were run off their feet.

Some of the worst nurses I met were at the Christie in Manchester......they were heartless. I wouldn't let them lookafter a goldfish.......the auxiliaries were more compassionate and caring.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I agree with you Rindy 100% with this post.
I have seen changes over the years from caring with my Grandma and I dont like the way it is going.

8years ago you couldnt have asked for more pleasent and understanding nurses that treated you with the best care until you left but now they just aint interested that much.
The only time they are is when your leaving so they can have the bed.

I understand that there are fewer nurses now and they are busy but a little bit of kindness goes along way.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Over the last 6 years I've seen this lack of care to elderly patients in one particular London hospital that has been surveyed as one of the best in the country..more than a few times I've brought to the attention of nurses to older patients that I've known have not eaten for days on end and sometimes (when I've been mobile) had to get water or drinks from machines for some that were in distress.
I've seen some have the "nil by mouth" signs over thier beds for days because thier ops have been cancelled and no nurse will give them food or drink until a docter tells them it's ok but when the doctors or nurses change shifts this can be forgotten.
There are hospitals were it depends on which ward you are placed in can make a massive difference on the kind of nursing/care you might get.
There should be more wards where elderly care is specialized with nurses who know how best to care for the elderly.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I was a little ill for a week or so and ended up in minor injuries at BRH last Sunday to get looked at after spending 3 days on the toilet passing green yukky liquid stuff and having temps of 39.4 C. The place is a complete mess. You could not move for people blocking the toilets for my 1/2 hourly visits and all the sick people herded together in a tiny waiting room. I know its was only temporary 3 years ago but its still not good enough. They should have built the required buildings then restructured not used a shed that is that cold in winter they close it at night and use A&E for minor injuries.

After feeling like I was going to pass out sat in a chair Rhonda had me moved to a cubicle to lie down. Eventually I was seen by a GP who at first appeared ok and decided I had food poisoning (Jokes about Rhonda's cooking are not needed as I was eating rubbish ready meals while working nights :p). As soon as the GP suggested I should be drinking fresh orange and cups of tea Rhonda said she wanted me admitting for observation. He agreed and they put me back in a cubicle and after a while a nurse screwed up stabbing me to put me on fluids (being a bit unfair as I was dehydrated and my veins were playing hiding games). A nice doc came who looked and sounded like the Count of Sesame Street and stabbed me painlessly first time.

I was led in minor injuries for about 2 hours until a bed was available on MAU. The moved me but when we arrived at MAU only one of the two double doors would open. They had just stuck me in a wheel chair to move me when someone pressed the emergency open button and it worked.

The nurse and porter from minor injuries took me to a room but no MAU nurse came for about 30 minutes. The room was far from clean with a big puddle of water on the floor, a lump of toothpaste in the sink and the bin in the bathroom was half full of wet hand towels.

The nurse checked my obs and left me a chart to fill in when I went to the toilet. A Doctor came and decided to give me anothe litre of fluid when the first bag was empty and then get me up for a walk about and see how I was before deciding if he would send me home or not.

Rhonda left to sort out our children. The first bag ran out and was not changed for well over an hour. Being in my own room was like being in the land that nurses forgot. She came back and put me on my fluids and an infusion machine. I asked for a blanket as I was cold which never came. The bag ran out and was changed when the machine bleeped for ages.

Another nurse looked through the door and this one brought me a blanket when I asked her.

The next bag ran out and the machine had been bleeping for that long I pressed the nurse call button which I had to drag off its clip by the wire because no one had given it to me. I did not feel like kneeling on the bed to reach it, dragging myself and that machine to the toilet was about all I could manage still.

Another nurse came, night shift I assume, and took me off the machine and switched its headache annoying beeping off. She was not as pleasant as the other one but felt to ill to tell her so. She then told me I was being discharged and could I arrange a lift home. The last 3 entries on my toilet chart showed I had been going every 15 minutes.

I said I did not want to go but phoned Rhonda to get me anyway. At least I knew I would be in safe hands in our bed with Rhonda looking after me. SHe had been awake most of the previous night with me and I was hoping she would get some rest while I was in hospital for the night - do they have targets on overnight stays I wonder?

The fluids helped and I started feeling better a few days later. Still weak and a bit more useless than usual but I decided yesterday that I was starting to eat normally to build up my strength for work next week and if my body does not like its just tough.

Sorry for the long boring drivel post but that my resent hospital experience.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Commiserations - your hospital experience sounds alarming.

Ever since I had C-Diff 30 years ago, and was on a rehydration drip for 2 weeks, I begin self administered oral rehydration whenever I have diarrheoa.
It is not enough to 'drink plenty of fluids', you need a rehydration solution

A basic (home made) oral rehydration therapy solution is composed of -

30 ml (6 level tsp) of sugar
2.5 ml (1/2 level tsp) of salt, dissolved into
1 litre (4.25 Cups) of clean water

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I was waiting to hear your views on this Margaret and I think your first statement says it all to me, nurses only acceptable if they qualify through a degree course:mad:you don't learn compassion and caring at University, that has to come from inside. Its no surprise to me, and I've had plenty of on hand experience in this, is that the old school nurses who are still on the wards are a beacon for nursing, the "new" regime of grad nurses maybe good at the practical side of nursing but mostly come up shore in the most important aspect of the job, compassion and caring. I'm not saying that nurses are don't care, but when the first consideration is career, the nursing side seems to suffer and I've seen the change over the last 31 years of being treated as an in patient, its only when you can compare in this way is when you know there is a difference

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

well i'm goin in monday fer a minor op,which by the way is hopefully correcting the cock up made at Burnley 2 years ago. seeing how things have improved really fills me wi confidence.:rolleyes:

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

You will be fine mate, your to damn stubborn to let them kill you off :D

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

And they can't do a lot of damage if they slip with't scalpel:D

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

When at school, we were told that you had to have a vocation to enter the caring professions (it was meant in a non-religious sense). It was to be considered a gift to have an inclination to help others...does this no longer apply?

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Graduate nurses are not good on the practical side John.......they haven't enough 'hands on' experience to be good.......what they have got, is an academic knowledge base, which might be seen as the way forward, but actually it isn't. University education was seen as a way to make nursing a 'profession'.........in my book you don't need a uni education to be professional....and as nursing is a practical skill...what you actually need to be a good and efficient nurse is practical experience .... yes you do need some classroom learning, but you need the hands on practical stuff far more.

I think it takes years to get the kind of experience to look at a patient and know that they 'aren't right' without knowing just why they aren't right........we have doctors to decide on diagnoses. Nurses are there not to be pseudo doctors, but to deliver care....and to do it with kindness and preserve the dignity of the patient.

I am glad I am no longer working in the NHS.........I think in a lot of ways it has fallen by the wayside.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Ya Margaret you don't learn how to change dressings fix an intravenous drip, give a patient a bed bath or help them to the toilet be it the loo or a bed pan, sat in a lecture room at Uni, nursing is about hands on dealing with the needs of patients.

Learning to be a nurse is like anything else, when I was serving my time as a joiner, I attended night school 1 day and two evenings a week the rest of the time was hands on working for my firm who were good enough to let me have a day release, 5 days at school would have been nice a cushie but would have done nothing to make sure that I was a competent tradesman in years to come

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Exactly John, and that is how Nurse training was. You would do an 8 week preliminary training course, then be allocated to wards for eight or ten weeks where you would learn to put into practice all those things you had learned about in PTS....then back into school(or block, as it was called) for a couple of weeks for a bit more book learning.
You were tested on what you had learned at the end of each block....and in this way those who were obviously unsuitable were weeded out. At the end of each practical allocation on the wards, you were interviewed and given a report on your abilities and skills...this went to the School of Nursing and your continuance depended quite a bit on these reports.
At the end of three years you sat your Hospital finals,which were a 'mock' for the state finals.

I am proud to say that I came top in our hospital finals....but this was only due to sheer hard work and determination to justify the confidence of Mr Winterburn (the head of Nurse Education) for giving me the chance to follow my dream.

I had a wonderful, enjoyable, satisfying career.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

My best friend and my sister in law both trained as nurses in the early seventies, they were employed by the hospital and did all their training in school at Blackburn Royal Infirmary and on the wards there or at Queens Park Hospital - in fact my friend delivered my first son when she was training.
I think that things might have become more technical now and there may be a need for more in depth training possibly, but the focus on caring for patients needs and having empathy for them should be paramount - the system should work to meet the needs of the patient, not the other way round where patients have to fit around the system. After all, we pay an awful lot of money for this service throughout our lives, which seems to be a point that people working in the NHS seem to forget! There seems to be a basic lack of human respect within the nursing profession now, which has not been seen previously - I have evidenced this myself when my partner was admitted to hospital in Manchester earlier this year. The nurses generally speaking did not present as professional, they appeared to have little regard for their patients and had I behaved in the way they did in my profession I would have been disciplined at the very least!

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Anne, though things become more technical, you do get updates, and are required to update your practice constantly......every nurse must keep a personal development portfoilo which the statutory body of nursing can request in order to inspect your educational development.

New Technological equipment always comes with study days.......and you have to gain competence in the use of such equipment. All nurses are obliged to say if they do not feel competent in using equipment....this is so that gaps in their knowledge can be dealt with.
All nurses have performance reviews too.

I don't think you can teach compassion....or empathy. You either have it or you don't

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

I completely agree with you about compassion and empathy, and I do know that my now ex sister in law has had to update her practice constantly throughout her career, I think that the old way of training seems to have been more effective than the current university route.
Are you still practising Margaret, you sound like the sort of nurse who could pass on extensive knowledge and experience!

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

No, I retired some nine years ago now. I did teach student nurses though, both in the classroom and on the wards. I enjoyed teaching and passing on skills that I had learned.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

sorry to hear about your distressing time Neil, glad to hear that you are now on the mend........the offer of a blanket bath still holds!
:D

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Spot on there Margaret, but updating your skills is not just confined to nursing, I remember my Father telling me when he was in his late fifties that he was still learning his trade, and he was a first class Joiner, I always said that if I ever became half as good as my father I would be one hell of a joiner myself. Just to digress, I think the proudest moment I had was when my father was fitting out the bedroom at his home and he asked me to show him how to install a suspended ceiling using acoustic tiles, something he had never come across but was prepared to ask me for help as I'd been on a specialist two week course at Marley's to learn about ceiling systems

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

John, part of being smart(and I don't mean this in a sarcastic way....I mean it in education) is in recognising your own weaknesses. That is why we had yearly appraisals. Which we all hated....but were very useful as they made us scrutinise our own practice, work out where our weaknesses were.
These weaknesses could be worked on, and we could improve year on year.
My weakness was always in the technical machinery.........I could look at a patient and 'suss' when there was something wrong....but the machinery........I needed help with that, but again, if I could not do it I usually knew someone who could, and would practise the art of delegation. Isn't that what leadership is about? Knowing how to use your staff and resources. My staff said they always felt proud to be called upon to do something that was beyond me.(that is also another good leadership ploy - make your staff feel valued and important)

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Those Hi-med machines are a pain in the butt:D

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

Yes John you are right...the bleeping i-meds were always on my list of things that I needed to master.
I would get nicely used to one model and they would upgrade it for a new and more complicated version....and I would go right back to square one. It felt like an electrical verson of snakes and ladders.

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

The last time I was an inpatient, I was on anti bios intravenously, some real thick stuff, the i-med was set for an hour duration, if it beeped once in that hour it beeped a dozen times, got on my nerves never mind the staff:rolleyes:

Re: Those who should- don't.
 

There have been a couple of letters in the national newspapers which echo my feelings on this subject.....from recently retired nurses. So I reckon I am not too wide of the mark.