Re: Young people today
 

Thank you Steven for returning to the link to explain yourelf. :) I am sorry that your father meted out punishment in such a way but it helps others to understand your reasoning for not smacking your children. I hope you understand that the vast majority of "smacking" parents do not "give a clip round the ear!" What we are discussing is chastisement for toddlers to help them appreciate the dangers in everyday life.

Previously, I mentioned a German leather belt that my father used to threaten me with, (He used the leather to re-sole his shoes and it got shorter and shorter...:) ) As a child, he was brought up in a small Welsh mining community and his dad would regularly beat him up after returning from the pits of an evening!! It was so bad, my Dad left home at 14 and made his way to Bedfordshire. He knew the difference between bullying and chastisement and applied it to his family in the best way he knew.

I understand your reasoning when you "deny" access to computers etc as a way of punishing a child but this can work for only a short while as it eventually causes friction between parents and child unless there is a deep-seated "trust" between the three of you. The way forward in my opinion is to show the child at an early age that the parent is right and for the child to respect and listen to the reasoning of parents. THEN you can reason with them and explain in words what is wrong with the actions that they took (or not!)

Re: Young people today
 

Just a thought,could some of the problem stem from the fact that more children are affected by divorce nowadays?
One of the great influences of my own childhood were my Grandparents.If the family has split then access to this older wiser(?)generation is restricted.
Often Grandparents had more time and patience to share with children than the busy parents;perhaps they learned from their own failings,how to treat the youngsters in their care?

Re: Young people today
 

I have not only stopped posting in this thread (yes yes i know) but on accy web as a whole.. I think some of the things that have been said to me, about me and and the if, buts, and maybes asked about the way I treat my children are nothing short of disgusting. at least one deleted by gobsmacked on request that was attacking my wife really upset me but some of the suggestions by busman i find absoloutly insulting. its the ifs and the open to question wether I love my children I find the hardest to deal with.

My crime?

I dont hit my children.

Your response to me as a whole for that crime is .... well.

Gooodbye

Re: Young people today
 

-That's a pity Kipax.-

However, I don't feel that he is suitable for this forum, as he is far to sensitive to anthing that can be construed as criticism. Unfortunately to disagree with him, is taken immediately as personal criticism...but it isn't, nor (as far as I can discern) is it intended by anyone taking part in the forum discussions.

I, nor anybody else has made a personal assault on Kipax's integrity for his point of view against smacking/hitting children. Also, I for one valued his input, as it made the rest of us think about that particular point of view, and I think he was right to do so, and I don't for one minute even remotely think that he doesn't love his children less than anybody else, in fact such a thought has never entered my head.

I wish he would re-consider leaving the site as he has a lot to offer.

Re: Young people today
 

There are foul mouthed bad mannered youngsters today yes, but there are also many more kind hearted, caring, polite ones too.

I am in my 40s, but I am told I look a lot younger than my age. However, I found there are some people ("some" being the important word here) who are in my age group, & into their 50s and even 60s, who I can only describe as simply plain bad mannered. In the supermarket, in the town & in the car, they push their way around, are totally oblivious that you are there, and are determined to get there first.

There are many, many well mannered people around. Youngsters & older people alike, but there are also those in all these age groups that are so bad mannered and uncaring that, quite frankly, I stand there shocked and dumb-founded.

Re: Young people today
 

That's the whole point Davy....Young and old alike. If the older generation cannot set an example...then how can we convince the younger element to act differently. But we must all act responsibly, and parental example is the best method. Throughout life and the world there are bad and good, all age groups. The more i see the more despondant I become!

Re: Young people today
 

I couldn't have put it better myself.....
I have to agree with Kippax. I don't think hitting, smacking (whatever you want to call it) is acting responsibly.
To balance out what we have been talking about, I have been round the supermarket, and have seen a Dad going round with his son talking about what they are going to have for tea and other things. It is so nice to see and the kid looks so well-adjusted.
You carry on bringing your kids the way you feel is best - it just shows you care.

Re: Young people today
 

I too go round the supermarket with my kids and discuss what we are having for tea. I also ask for and appreciate their input and suggestions. One evening my 13 year old insisted on making desert as a surprise and wouldn't tell us what it was until she produced it.

We also go bowling as a family and have a great time, or go to the cinema. We play board games indoors and on holiday we've had hilarious fun trying to get a kite to fly or just mucking about on the marsh beach. They are happy well adjusted children who have respect for themselves and others who also behave like totally typical loonies at times, giggling and giddy.

I asked them this morning if either of them could remember the last time they were smacked and it was so long ago that they couldn't tell me, but they added that it was probably because they'd done something that needed it. I can't remember either, so that shows you how regular a feature it isn't.

Re: Young people today
 

I find this quite incredible coming from the man who accused me of hitting my children and no matter how many times I explained to him exactly my distinction between hitting and smacking and my reasons and logic for doing the latter he then went on to say "so who is hitting your children?"

Perhaps if anyone should have taken offence here it should have been me.

I am not saying he is wrong not to smack his children, what I have done is ask for his alternative solution in situations where I have used a smack and yet he has declined to offer me one. I do appreciate Steven coming back with his suggestions but I'm still at a loss to know what to do in the situation where a smack on the back of the wrist has been my way of keeping a toddler out of immediate danger (such as the flame/fire comment by Simon)

If anyone can tell me, I am willing to learn - but so far no-one has done so.

Re: Young people today
 

Interesting point Lampman. Someone was talking today about the divorce rate statistics and how many children are born into single parent families. (not to mention those which don't get born at all but that's a different topic) The question was raised as to how this affects the children and how it will affect their approach to marriage and family life in the future.

At present I'm a single parent, but not by choice. My husband died when our children were 7 and 10 years old. The only grandparent type person they have lives half a world away and it does concern me that they don't have many extended family type relationships. However, they do have "auntie" and "uncles" by choice rather than by chance.


At 10 and 13 they now have a new father figure in their lives and their attitude towards him is thankfully much the same as the one towards their own Dad. They respect him, but will also tease and torment him. He can play with them, do things for them and ask them to do things. He can tell them off which may result in a bit of whingeing and moaning but they always come back for a goodnight hug and kiss before they go to bed.
Of course they will always love their Dad and he will always be their Dad but they are well-adjusted enough to be able to welcome someone else into our close family circle.

I think they are brilliant, but then again I'm biased because they are my girls.

Re: Young people today
 

Nice one Kipax. You requested that I remove the contents of a specific post and in order not to upset you (as you were at that point apparently taking a great deal out of context and out of proportion) I complied with your request.

Now however, you inform the rest of the members that I attacked your wife. They have only your word for that but I will categorically deny it. I will not repeat what I did say because unlike you I am honourable enough to stand by my agreement to remove the subject matter. You on the other hand have decided to twist what was said and give people the impression that some of us set out purposely to insult and offend you and your family.

You imply that because some people do not agree with you and choose to bring up their children a different way they are questioning your love for your children yet nowhere have a seen any such inference. All I have seen are two differing points of view with you the aggressor dishing out criticism of those whose method of child rearing does not mirror your own. In fact I noted that you accused one member of hitting their children when that member had patiently endeavoured on more than one occasion to clarify the distinction between hitting and smacking.

When asked how you have acheived success without recourse to smacking you have declined to respond other than to insult those who asked by implying that they harm and abuse their children.

It's a pity that you couldn't have replied like a mature adult and given us all the benefit of your experience.

But please, please do not resort to using the fact that I edited my post at your request as a way of implying that the content was insulting towards yourself or your wife.

If I made any mistake at all it was in taking you at your word that you would refrain from reference to the matter once I had complied with your request. Unfortunately you seem to have been able to delete the post in which you made that statement. A facility which I do not appear to have.

Quo vadis?

Re: Young people today
 

Willow,I am glad that you have found happiness after your sad loss,not everyone does.
The fact that your children like and respect your new love is a bonus.
No not every single parent family go off the rails,yet I am sure that the pressures it causes doesn't help.

Re: Young people today
 

Perhaps her children haven't gone off the rails because they grew up with discipline?

It must have been a traumatic time for them and for you Willow. I'm not sure which would be worse, divorce where a child has the opportunity of seeing the estranged parent under different circumstances, or death where they will not see them but live with the knowledge that the love between their parents still remained to the end.

Good luck to you for the future Willow and children, and your future other half.

Re: Young people today
 

My Dad was strict but fair. He had a leather belt to scare the living day lights out of me if needs must.
But I would rather have a slap an get it over with.
His words cut far deeper than any slap.
When I say to my Grandaughter what happens if your naughty?
She will reply " I will get a smack nanna then you will tickle me till morning."
I have always had a rule.
That is i will ask them once.
Tell them twice.
Then if there is a third time, they get smacked.
Its not easy has a parent and all you can do is the best you can.
The biggest problem comes when the police and teachers dont have the rights that they once had.
I dont think any body is saying just smack a child for the sake of it.
Each child is different.
We all have different ways of doing things.
Some times we get things sadley wrong.
Other times just right.

Re: Young people today
 

hear hear anne, i agree totally with you i could not have put it better myself , having a brute of a father & all my 12 grand children just know how far to push their nanna , ha ha futher than their mums & dad did i must add but iv'e got loving kids all same

Re: Young people today
 

Nicely put anne :) and Mez

Re: Young people today
 

thank you simon

Re: Young people today
 

Well said Anne, If a parent is loved, words DO cut deeper than any slap, and as soon as a child is old enough to understand, words rather than a physical slap should be enough to ensure that the child differenciates between right and wrong. Unfortunately, Kipax could not comprehend this and decided to "exile" himself rather than to discuss the possibility that he may have been wrong (or right?) What he failed to grasp is the age of a child that is being reprimanded, A smack to an eighteen month old baby tells him/her that what they were doing is wrong! A smack to a twelve year old teaches them that violence is the "norm" ...and they may carry that through into later life!

"We all have different ways of doing things" Of course we do, ...and that is where sites such as these come into their own. It is a way of seeing how others live their lives and to judge whether their way is better than the way that you have decided upon!

"The biggest problem comes when the police and teachers dont have the rights that they once had."

That is a major issue with me, You cannot condemn the police or teachers as they have their hands tied should they wish to influence the up-bringing of children in their charge, they must feel so frustrated!

"Some times we get things sadley wrong"

Yes we do, which is why I asked Kipax to go into detail as to why he was so against "slapping" He decided not to discuss this point which is a shame!!!

Re: Young people today
 

Absolutely!

I think this is where we came in.

Your entire post is very well put and I agree with it whole-heartedly Anne.

I'm glad to see that there are more of us here who can make the distinction between hitting and smacking and although it may only be used as a last resort I feel there should always be the potential threat there.

Of course the children know that you love them. They know that they have done wrong and they know why they have been smacked. Once it's done it's over with. They are still loved. How on earth can anyone confuse that with child abuse?

Had I been Willow I would have been extremely offended by the implication that someone is abusing her children. (And that from a person who claims to have been insulted by the rest of us and yet I have read through the whole of this thread again and see no evidence of anything of the sort.)

In fact Willow, from what your children themselves said here they sound very well-adjusted and mature for their ages. All credit to you under what must have been extremely difficult circumstances following your husband's death.

Busman - could you clear your PM folders please? I tried to contact you but your message box is full. You must be a popular chap.;)

Re: Young people today
 

Dummies spit, teddies kicked.
Rattles bashed, cots trashed!

Well, well...! Is this a promise Kipax?

In the words of Scott Walker, " No regrets, no tears goodbye..."

Ok folks, the official title of 'Accringtonweb Devil's Advocate' is now open to tender. Do we have any takers? The only pre-requisite being that you have to try your level best to get under just about everyone's skin!
An ability to create a paraplegic teddy bear by ripping off it's limbs, then drop-kicking it over your computer monitor will be viewed favourably.

Re: Young people today
 

. :rofl38:

Re: Young people today
 

nice one sparkologist// as always :idunno:

Re: Young people today
 

I feel we better drop any more comments at Kipax, as he may feel that we are "Ganging-up" on him.

However, self inflicted injuries occur.

To finalise; We have all said our twopen'oths worth, and the overwhelming majority agree that smacking a child under certain circumstances is a proven way of administering discipline to a small child.

When a child is of an age where reasoning can be used, then smacking is of no further use!

Hitting children is a no--no, as this is not discipline or punishment but sadism, and painful, mentally and physically.

And in my view, most of the contributors were well balanced people with sensible and practical attitudes towards the subject. Those who are not parents, rightly gave their own personal viewpoints which were a valuable contribution, and another perspective.

I for one have enjoyed this thread, and it shows me that there are a lot of good people around who genuinely care. If we widened the topic to go on to Divorce and its effects on a child & discipline we will never finish this thread at all. To Willow, Simon, Davy, Sparko, Busman, Lampman, Mez, Gobsmacked, and all the others...thanks for making it so informative and interesting.

To Kipax....sorry you felt the way you did....and that you couldn't take the remarks in the way that they were intended (not one was aggresive or mean)..........but that's life.........and to quote your remarks to me "Get a Grip man"

Re: Young people today
 

Very well summed-up Darby. I've also appreciated reading everyone's opinion and found much that is informative.

Hopefully Kipax will come back and re read the thread and see that no-one actually insulted him personally or even intended to. I'll forgive him for accusing me of hitting my children (or some other unknown person of doing it) which I would never dream of doing. I was horrified that anyone could think so.

Now, what's going on in the rest of AccyWebLand?

Re: Young people today
 

Thanks to everyone who posted as said before it gave me a good insight of everyones ideas.

so once again thanks

Steven

Re: Young people today
 

Well what can i say?

Kipax i have nothing but admiration for you to be able to bring up your children the way you have done so i think it is wonderful im sure if i knew how i would follow in your steps.

I have 2 children boy aged 3, and girl aged 5. And they can be extremely naughty!! like any their age i hope,but especially with my boy (3) there is nothing i can do i cant put him in his room he thinks thats fine and will rip wallpaper of the walls, I cant take his toys away hes not bothered he will play with anything he gets his hands on not caring whos it is or what it is.

I try not to smack them but sometimes its the only way i know how that actually works i dont have miriam stoppard living next door i can only do what i know how and alot of the time it hurts me more than the children to smack them for what they have done and that is the gods honest truth.

As they get older its true you can reason with them and explain things to them which they can understand.

I also believe that if youths are to be roaming the streets causing trouble giving abuse smoking, drinking, whatever they are doing. I believe it has alot to do with where they are brought up if you are brought up on a council estate then you are more likely to be one of those people, especially if you are easily led. If you are brought up in a nice residential area where the adults show the way by not standing out in the front garden in the summer drinking beer and being roudy, then it is more likely that you will be one of the more quiet people who have a few good friends and so on.

I dont know what people will think to what i have but but just remember it is only what i think and not what i want you all to believe!!