Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952316)

But very few...if any, belief/faith systems can be truly tolerant, because fundamentally they believe they are right, and every other group, who have a different set of beliefs, are wrong.

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952320)

I love you Mrs. Pilkington. You know I do. :)

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952322)

Oh....I thought you had gone off me there for a minute.:D

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952315)

So the crusades were not in the name of religion then....again, I am asking because I thought they were, but to be honest, that kind of history didn't float my boat when I was at school. I was probably gazing out of the window when I should have been listening.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952321)

I am preaching tolerance

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952327)

Oh, if you're preaching your beliefs.

http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/sites...rs_in_ears.gif

:D

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952331)

I don't have a religion.
I understand how some people assume that religion and reincarnation belief neccessarily go together.
They don't - so all this religion talk is off thread.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952331)

I don't have a religion.
I understand how some people assume that religion and reincarnation belief neccessarily go together.
They don't - so all this religion talk is off thread.

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952334)

I remember being sent to a Catholic School in Accrington while a I waited for a place at Green Howarth. On my first day a nice Gentleman ridiculed me by pointing at me a saying to the whole class that I was a none believer, a dirty little prod, I didn't even know what a (F) prod was. I said should I go and wash my hands and the bastard hit me. I was bullied badly for about four months by teachers and kids all of them Catholics.

After I got to Green Howarth a nice teacher call Mrs. H. beat me across the left hand has often as she could, just because I had a bent to write left handed. I was told it was a sign of evil. She was a good Catholic lady.

Many years later when I got married my new mother in law promised me on my wedding day that she would see me cast out of her daughters life and turn my son away from me; and she did. She was a good Catholic lady too.

I haven't clue why they hated me so much…..I never even went to church, I was born there.

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson (Post 952269)

A slight variation on Descartes, 'I think therefore I am' Gordon. I think I think therefore I might be.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952293)

When it comes to various fundamentalist faith groups/religions, who seek to impose their own beliefs, over and above what passes for a democratic system, not only can they go and whistle, if they expect any respect from me, I'll actively fight their crusade until I draw my last breath.

(...and return to dust.)

:D

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952320)

I love you Mrs. Pilkington. You know I do. :)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 952360)

Well as you know I'm RC, but I sure as hell don't believe carte blanche in all its teachings ie birth control and homosexuality, which I think is quite well known on here, and I certainly treat religious begets with the contempt they so richly deserve

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952365)

I recall genesis is all about begetting ;)
....and catholics are good at it.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 952361)

Flatterer Doug:D

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952369)

Just personal life experiences of religion and beliefs Mancie; the Mother in Law event was over 20 years ago, my marriage lasted 3 years, the heart ache of that experience is buried deep but always hurtful; the same can be said of the Mother in Law.

Despite having a Church of England background what hurts is the fact that Catholic blood runs in my veins through ancestors as does the blood of the Jews, but the selfishness and blindness of other peoples religion never considers that.

We all know that the most persecuted religion in history is that of the Jews; mostly by a Jewish sect called Christianity; within Christianity the Catholic Church persecuted and murdered its way though its own people and those of other religions and in turn the English Church persecuted and murdered its way though the Catholics of the British Isles and beyond. Everybody's had a go at the Muslims and yet True Islam is one of the most respectful and embracing of all the peoples of the Book. It is also one of the greatest contributors to Medicine, Science and literacy.

So what's wrong in the world today is no different than a thousand years ago; religion has always been a power base of a few to control a mostly illiterate majority only today we call ourselves enlightened and the rest of the worlds religions has some variation of evil. Only Man is evil towards other men and usually its only a few; today it's within the hand of politics; before that in the hands of Kings; before that Priests and before that tribal leaders and mystics. Power as never been in the hands of the people and it never will.

All we can do is try and respect others and take only those elements of religion or beliefs that work for us and show no offence to those that don't. I am as happy to dance around a tree naked has I am to sit in a Church. People who seek to hurt others will only suffer themselves in time; it's wrote throughout our history

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952369)

So what's wrong in the world today is no different than a thousand years ago; religion has always been a power base of a few to control a mostly illiterate majority only today we call ourselves enlightened and the rest of the worlds religions has some variation of evil. Only Man is evil towards other men and usually its only a few; today it's within the hand of politics; before that in the hands of Kings; before that Priests and before that tribal leaders and mystics. Power as never been in the hands of the people and it never will.

All we can do is try and respect others and take only those elements of religion or beliefs that work for us and show no offence to those that don't. I am as happy to dance around a tree naked has I am to sit in a Church. People who seek to hurt others will only suffer themselves in time; it's wrote throughout our history

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952378)

My sentiments entirely.
I have looked back at the first post in this thread and nowhere in that post is religion mention, or even alluded to.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952384)

You can be spritiual without being religious.(I like to think that over the years I have become more spiritual -though perhaps it is philosophical rather than spiritual...I don't know)
Faith does not need to be religion based either. I am faithful in my marriage......I have faith in family values.
I have no religion....so am I an atheist? I live by what are, by and large, Christian principles and yet do not subscribe to the dogma of that religion. No I wasn't married in Church and I didn't have my daughter christened.

I am only mentionig these things for illustration. I am not 'getting' at anyone for their beliefs or lack of them.

Whatever gets you through the dark times is Ok by me...as long as it doesn't impact on anothers life values.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952384)

Whatever gets you through the dark times is Ok by me...as long as it doesn't impact on anothers life values.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952274)

“I doubt, therefore I think”

- René Descartes.

http://www.ezdia.com/blogs/wp-conten...n-thinking.gif

Originally Posted by Less (Post 952391)

All this thinking will give you indigestion, make sure you have some of me in your bathroom cabinet

-Rene Tablets.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952394)

Oh I don't waste life's pecious time thinking too much.

Act on instinct.

Think about it later, if you must.

If instinct lets you down.

:D

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 952398)

Basic insticts are the best ones to follow and you have no control over them, so no-one can blame you whatever you do....:D

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952331)

I don't have a religion.
I understand how some people assume that religion and reincarnation belief neccessarily go together.
They don't - so all this religion talk is off thread.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952390)

Quite agree.

I wasn't being disparaging, when I said belief in an afterlife is comforting.

It's a great comfort, to many people, and has been since man first thought about it.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952404)

I didn't think you were being disparaging at all.

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 952389)

As a born sceptic, i'm afraid that the whole reincarnation thing is just another selfish way of thinking you can hang on to life.
(As i was writing this, and getting interupted, I see Margaret and Garinda have written again both mentioning spirituality in one way or another. To me spirituality has nothing to do with religion it is a knowing of the self and understanding how the elements that make up our-self can be completed by the others with whom we interact. It is a very personal human thing....as we progress in life we find those around us who compliment who we are and can make us our whole-selves.)

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952414)

That will be my last contribution to this thread as I feel I can no longer add anything of any value(maybe what I have already said is crap anyway.)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952410)

I"One of the great discoveries I have made while pursuing the quest for enlightenment has been the universal and timeless efficacy of astrology." :D

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952414)

That will be my last contribution to this thread as I feel I can no longer add anything of any value(maybe what I have already said is crap anyway.)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952049)

The only miracle is life itself, and the fact that we are the most advanced form of life on this lump of mass, hurtling through space.

Life's precious.

Enjoy it, whilst it lasts.

:)

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 952411)

[/i]

I really don't see how gaining comfort from a belief is selfish. Everyone has their own way of dealing with their mortality........some people do not even recognise their mortality.

Your view on spirituality coincides with much of my own feelings, but I would add in that spirituality recognises that there will be those who don't subscribe to values which you might hold dear...this in no way negates their value in your own life......it may even broaden your own horizons.

We do not need to be able to see America to know it exists.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 952428)

I can't agree that we are the most advanced form of life on Earth, or that life is a miracle. I can agree that we are the greatest threat to the survival of the planet as we know it ... maybe we have specific abilities and skills ... however, we lack the ability to apply them for our benefit ... unless one can see flat screen TVs flashing with images of Jerry Springer as benefits.

And "Life's precious" ... let me think about that one while I pay another visit to the Yad Vashem web site:confused:

I think I'll stick with Shakespeare and his "Life's but a walking shadow .... ", and Kafka or course.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952434)

Nope.

Still happier with my more simplistic way of thinking.

In my experience, life is precious.

:hothothot

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952331)

I don't have a religion.
I understand how some people assume that religion and reincarnation belief neccessarily go together.
They don't - so all this religion talk is off thread.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 952453)

Maybe it's the unseasonable drizzly Accy style weather ... but for now, I think I'll stick with the dark side of the force;)

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 952470)

Really Eric - you should always look on the bright side of life -as a namesake of yours famously sings in The Life of Brian....

Life is quite absurd, and death's the final word....:rolleyes:

Always Look on the Bright Side of Life Sing-Along - YouTube

:D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 952472)

Life might be absurd ... but I won't be certain until Godot shows up to tell me for sure.;) And remember, while you are looking at the bright side, the dark side will creep up on you and boot you in the ass:dancedog:

Eric Idle is cool; but I still think that for a more comprehensive and accurate world view, one should listen to George Carlin.:alright: Someone told me that, with my beard trimmed, and my hair in a pony tail, I look a lot like George ... not much of a compliment considering he's been pushing up daisies for three years:(

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 952477)

mobertol, Zeitgeist- fascinating although I wonder how much is co-incidences co-inciding?
Worth further investigation.

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952334)

I remember being sent to a Catholic School in Accrington while a I waited for a place at Green Howarth. On my first day a nice Gentleman ridiculed me by pointing at me a saying to the whole class that I was a none believer, a dirty little prod, I didn't even know what a (F) prod was. I said should I go and wash my hands and the bastard hit me. I was bullied badly for about four months by teachers and kids all of them Catholics.

After I got to Green Howarth a nice teacher call Mrs. H. beat me across the left hand has often as she could, just because I had a bent to write left handed. I was told it was a sign of evil. She was a good Catholic lady.

Many years later when I got married my new mother in law promised me on my wedding day that she would see me cast out of her daughters life and turn my son away from me; and she did. She was a good Catholic lady too.

I haven't clue why they hated me so much…..I never even went to church, I was born there.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952331)

I don't have a religion.
I understand how some people assume that religion and reincarnation belief neccessarily go together.
They don't - so all this religion talk is off thread.

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 952389)

As a born sceptic, i'm afraid that the whole reincarnation thing is just another selfish way of thinking you can hang on to life. So much of all religions is about control, power and making money by keeping people living in fear of their own mortality. They are all tied into the very earliest superstitions of man linked to sun worship, fertility and the seasons. The basics of life. We, at an RC school danced round maypoles every year dressed in white for example...there are harvest festivals in churches, Xmas itself being held in the depths of winter is a throw back to ancient pagan festivals which were in place before the Christian church came into being.

People believe all sorts of weird things, that's OK by me a long as they don't try to shove their beliefs down my throat or impose them on the masses. What if Scientology takes over the world? Tom Cruise is a great ambassador for this silliness. We'd all be looking back up to the stars which is what our ancestors did many thousands of years ago....

I'm sceptical about the agenda of the Zeitgeist films but the following is interesting as it shows the links between the main religions and the earliest froms of sun worship -ignore the annoying tones of the voice-over and give it a few moments to get going and you may find it quite surprising....


Zeitgeist - The Movie - 2 of 13 (Part 1 of 3 on Religion) - - YouTube

(As i was writing this, and getting interupted, I see Margaret and Garinda have written again both mentioning spirituality in one way or another. To me spirituality has nothing to do with religion it is a knowing of the self and understanding how the elements that make up our-self can be completed by the others with whom we interact. It is a very personal human thing....as we progress in life we find those around us who compliment who we are and can make us our whole-selves.)

Originally Posted by Benipete (Post 952501)

I'm sure I saw Ena,Minnie and Martha down the pub last night.:alc::drunk::hehetable

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952498)

If you ever get a visit from a dead person you might change your mind about what you believe.
Belief is better based on personal experience.

.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952524)

I can't explain my experiences on drugs or alcohol, since I use neither.
Were these 'visits' from identifiable dead persons or just chemical hallucinations?

I have googled info about the pineal gland (centre of the brain) and lo and behold -
Descartes believed in the concept of a 'soul' :D
Descartes and the Pineal Gland (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Some of his beliefs were wild by even my standards :D, so for Gordon to quote him is rather ironic.;)

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952524)

Descartes believed in the concept of a 'soul' :D
Descartes and the Pineal Gland (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Some of his beliefs were wild by even my standards :D, so for Gordon to quote him is rather ironic.;)

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952524)

I can't explain my experiences on drugs or alcohol, since I use neither.
Were these 'visits' from identifiable dead persons or just chemical hallucinations?

I have googled info about the pineal gland (centre of the brain) and lo and behold -
Descartes believed in the concept of a 'soul' :D
Descartes and the Pineal Gland (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Some of his beliefs were wild by even my standards :D, so for Gordon to quote him is rather ironic.;)

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952524)

I can't explain my experiences on drugs or alcohol, since I use neither.
Were these 'visits' from identifiable dead persons or just chemical hallucinations?

I have googled info about the pineal gland (centre of the brain) and lo and behold -
Descartes believed in the concept of a 'soul' :D
Descartes and the Pineal Gland (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
Some of his beliefs were wild by even my standards :D, so for Gordon to quote him is rather ironic.;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952535)

It's not uncommon for people with Parkinson's to have hallucinations, before they're diagnosed, and start any drug treatments.

I'm also not suggesting people who see things all have Parkinon's. Just pointing out the common chemical imbalance, in this case can cause visual, and aural hallucinations.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952524)

I can't explain my experiences on drugs or alcohol, since I use neither.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 952552)

Every single thing we ingest is made up of a myriad of different chemical compounds.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952561)

My only poison is nicotine - I have never heard of that causing hallucinations.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952561)

I am obsessive about what I ingest
...I thought that you probably noticed that :D
My diet is completely organic - pesticide and herbicide free.
I drink and shower in filtered water.

That also applies to what I absorb through my skin.

My only poison is nicotine - I have never heard of that causing hallucinations.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952561)

.

My only poison is nicotine - I have never heard of that causing hallucinations.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 952565)

According to the doctors it causes every other health problem!
As for organic food, I know a man whose job was to fill his tanker up at the sewage works and spray it on organic farmers fields-so any pesticides and herbicides I eat-eventually you eat too!
I'm sorry I thought of that!

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952567)

I know that smoking is bad for my health (got down to 10 little roll up a day now), but most of my health problems were caused by prescription drugs

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 952570)

MargaretR, we've survived so far in spite of smoking and no-one lives forever!
How's that for back to thread?

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952573)

I believe I will (in a spirit form)- read my sig:D
...It sounds such a better 'life' I am quite looking forward to it:p

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952561)

I am obsessive about what I ingest
...I thought that you probably noticed that :D
.

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952567)

My opinion of doctors is coloured by my experience - that's why I avoid them.
They are good at setting broken limbs but not much more;)

I know that smoking is bad for my health (got down to 10 little roll up a day now), but most of my health problems were caused by prescription drugs

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 952743)

God is this thead not dead yet......:D

Originally Posted by Burningman (Post 953243)

Reincarnation... is that when you are reborn as a tin of milk?

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 952561)

I am obsessive about what I ingest
...I thought that you probably noticed that :D
My diet is completely organic - pesticide and herbicide free, and not genetically modified.
I drink, and shower in, filtered water.

That also applies to what I slap on/absorb through my skin.

My only poison is nicotine - I have never heard of that causing hallucinations.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 954187)

How do you manage to shower in filtered water?

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 954188)

My showerhead has a built in carbon filter.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 954189)

So you use rainwater? Tobacco was sacred to North American Indians!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 954187)

I don't know if I 100% believe in Reincarnation - but I believe the brain has more power than we know and that dreams are a way to access those levels of the brain.

How do you manage to shower in filtered water?

Nicotine does make you feel high if your not used to it.

Originally Posted by ***Mr D*** (Post 954190)

Id say she uses something like one of these.

Crystal Quest Luxury Shower Water Filter w/ massage head **CHROME**

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 954200)

I have always wonder about dreams, I think everybody has had dreams at some time, I know I do, but sometimes I can remember them vividly, just like they were real, then sometimes I wake up, now I've been dreaming, yet just can't remember what about, very strange

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 954647)

I have been writing my dreams down for years and do it first thing every day when I get up. Also I've had what you describe where I was aware of them at the time but as soon as I wake up detailed recall evaporates. Perhaps it's something you don't want to face!?

Check out this video I posted on Reincarnation! ;):D

Reincarnation part1 - YouTube

Originally Posted by Burningman (Post 953243)

Reincarnation... is that when you are reborn as a tin of milk?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 955681)

We know that people 3,000 years ago when beliefs about reincarnation where first formed - didn't know about the body and brain what we know. THey were probably under the belief that they were a "whole" entity inside a body! Science now knows that we are not "whole" but are a lot of parts working together and if one part stops working then that impairs the function of the rest of our bodies or mind! However the brain is a kind of elastical ability and in some cases parts of the brain used for other functions takes over functions of a part of the brain that is damaged beyond repair.

Anyone been watching Tony Robinsons "Gods and Monsters." in which he shows what irrational beliefs we used to have even a few 100 years ago!

Reincarnation part2 - YouTube
:rolleyes:
Check out this video about Reincarnation!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 956199)

I don't trawl the internet looking for it - I actually put that up there. What is the problem looking at why we think what we think? And 400 years ago Jaysay you'd probably be spending your time worrying about fairy's and demons at the bottom of the garden instead of Accrington Stanley!

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 956211)

Think yer away wi the fairy's, jaysays always been a rovers fan.:D

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 956348)

Since the world's population's exploded in number, beyond all recognition, of what it was in the past.

If we've all been here before, and there aren't enough past inhabitants for us all to have one, do the reincarnated have to spread themselves about a bit, and are forced to come back as more than one person?

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 956348)

Since the world's population's exploded in number, beyond all recognition, of what it was in the past.

If we've all been here before, and there aren't enough past inhabitants for us all to have one, do the reincarnated have to spread themselves about a bit, and are forced to come back as more than one person?

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 956427)

Why limit your perception to a limited number of souls.
For all we know there could be an infinite number who have not yet incarnated and are queuing up to have the experience.