Give me a child until he is seven-
 

and I will give you the man!
The father of a seven year old was telling me yesterday that his child came home from school and told them the class had a talk/lecture from their teacher about Wednesdays strike. The teacher told them it was not the teachers fault, the Government was trying to take their money off them so it was the governments fault. The father suggested it might be more complicated than that, his child said 'Oh no,daddy, the teacher said that so it must be true'.
Whatever your politics, is it right that this sort of indoctrination of seven year olds(or any other age) at school should be permitted? I certainly don't think so.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Sadly i I am not surprised.
Many years ago, I had quite a bit of problems at college. Mainly because I did not agree with a Marxist lecturer.
He took a dislike to anyone who questioned his ideals and would do his best to demoralise you.

Politics and ideology should be left at the door.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

calm down children...it's all over the news, my son has been encouraged to watch the news since he was about 5, it's called LIFE, every child can turn on the tv and hear about it so stop chatting bubbles about schools and grow up

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Don't children get influenced politically, by something akin to osmosis, of all they see and hear around them, which primarily will come from the leanings of their parents?

I know I was.

By my parents, on the planet we lived on.

:D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Maybe so flashy but when you have the person who is trying to guide your child during the most important years of their lives, I certainly wouldn't want my child being brain washed and that's what it is, if a kid watches this on the news (which 7 year old sits now glued to the TV when the news comes on) the see the overall picture which they won't understand anyway at that age, but being ear bashed by "teacher" well it must be right mustn't it

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

To be honest I didn't have a clue which way my parents voted until I got involved in politics when I was 16, my Father just said I'm glad you made the right choice

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

RIGHT John, it was Reece who told me when the planes crashed into the Twin Towers on September 11th 2001...it was his 5th birthday, we where at my friends house and he was watching something on tv in the other room, THAT news blocked out all other news that day and stopped most other programmes, he shouted from the lounge 'mummy some planes have crashed on the telly' from then on he has always taken an interest in the news when it's been on in the house.....if you think kids are getting brainwashed at school then you're thinking utter codswallop...as i said, it's called LIFE!!!

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I had an art history lecturer who politicised all her lectures with extremist feminist clap-trap.

Giotto, like all men, was a rapist, school of thought, etc.

I can't even remember the number of her lectures that I disrupted, and brought to the edge of chaos, before they had to be abandoned.

:rolleyes:

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Maybe if the teach had said well the government is taking money of us, that money which is funded from your parents taxes, who's own private pensions were slashed by that nice Mr Brown, then that would have been a balanced opinion, not brainwashing like he/she did, now that is life as we know it

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Politics were often discussed in our home.

Though unlike my Dad, I've no idea who my equally politicised Mum voted for, and still don't, to this day.

They, amongst other people I knew as a child, helped shape my own politics.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I remember questioning everything I was told from the age of 6 on at school.

I have never voted the way my parents voted and my political opinions were only influenced by my Grand-mother who was the biggest anti-Thatcherite the planet has ever seen. I have letters from my Grandad in which he writes to me about her latest laments about that lady in the 1980's...

There was a wonderful documentary called Seven which took a group of youngsters of that age in the early 70's and followed their lives , filming them every 7 years. Fascinating stuff -the 7 yr old child was nearly always recogniseabe in the adult they became...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

John, read it again....the teacher wasn't telling lies or trying to brainwash the kids, IT IS the governments fault...the teacher put it in laymans terms...to the kids

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

At my own primary school I had some wonderful teachers, who I learned later were socialists.

Though this influence was counterbalanced by also having Peter Britcliffe on the teaching staff.


:D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Teachers are supposed to give a balance view not one side, the idea would have been to give the reasons why, that would have been balanced

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I don't remember politics ever being discussed at junior school.

My political discussions at home as a teenager were always with my dad who had Liberal leanings -mum was a great admirer of Thatcher -mainly because she was a woman and the first of her kind.

I was completely the opposite and remember having some ding-dong rows while watching Question Time mainly but they always listened to what I had to say...they didn't agree as I saw things in a very clear cut way back then -no half-measures, but they always allowed me my say...
I said some terrible things to dad who was a design engineer and just before the time of the Falklands war had actually worked on anti-personel devices - his defence was that if he didn't do it someone else would have...he also worked for a long time in nuclear power...which I loathed... They never told me to shut up and I probably (definitely)exagerated:o

It has never been mentioned since and we never talk about politics now...

I don't think that a teacher should talk about their own views at a junior school level in any case.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Ya know I've known Joan for 22 years and still don't know which way she votes, if anything I would have though she vote Lib/Dem but I'm not sure

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

As I said recently we discussed politics at primary school, and always had mock elections, with parties, and campaigns, when there was a General Election.

We also held a referendum, on whether Britain should have continued membership of the Common Market, in 1975.

I led the No campaign.

We won.

Happy, carefree, days.

If only life was as simple now.

:rolleyes:

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Balanced view my arse, rightly or wrongly,the teacher was telling the truth, of which theres only one side to that.:rolleyes:

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I do agree with what others have said.

Whatever their own thoughts, pupils deserve their teachers to present whatever's being discusssed, in a balanced a way as possible.

Everything, not just politics.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

We were taken to visit the Town Hall in our final year and had a mock council meeting -that's the only "political" lesson we ever had...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Sometimes there is a fine line between education and indoctrination.

It appears that one objective of education is population conformity and control of behavour. Whether you agree with that depends on what you think of social engineering in general.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

If teachers can take time of in term time, does that mean that parents can keep their children off in term time?

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Seriously??? ... ok, I'm prepared to listen to a balanced view of the holocaust; we are all sitting comfortably; or maybe we could start off with the Potato Famine, or the burning of witches:rolleyes: ... I think when you say "balance view", you mean "sanitized version" ... so the school cops out, and the kids yawn, go home, and, like Reece, get it off the tv. Of course, if they listen to CNN, or, god forbid, Fox "News" they will get the official right wing version .... not much balance there. Maybe if schools spent more time challenging kids (including "Failure is always an option".), and less time pussyfooting around what is going on in the world they would be way more effective.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Probably not.

If people paying into private pensions can see them cut(starting with Browns £5 billion) and have to work till well past 65, does that mean the same applies to teachers? Apparently not.

I keep hearing the pain should be equally spread, don't let the very rich get away with it( I agree )- but no pain for the public sector workers pensions, just the private sector workers and the very rich.
We're broke, we all have to take some pain. No-one should be sacred.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

As i said before in other threads, the reason the pension deficit is large, is cos of pension funds taking pension holidays fer many years, the reason they did that is cos they said the funds were too large. FACT. a fact i am well aware of, only a blinkered moron can fail to accept that fact.:rolleyes:

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

all the teacher said was 'the government' how could that be any more balanced?

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

No it's not all he said.
If your son watches the news he hopefully gets balanced, unbiased reporting of the facts with both sides explained. He can then make his own mind up, or at least see there are two sides.
Whereas you only appear to accept there is one side- the teachers.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

and you only appear to accept there is one side- your own

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I don't think I'm exactly on my own, read through the thread again.You are the only one who actually thinks the teacher did nothing wrong.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

On a similar-ish subject, regarding bias in education, yesterday I read a report in the Sunday Times, which stated more, and more medical students are refusing to remain in biology lectures in which evolutionism is taught as a given.

Most, though not all, were Muslim students, who would only accept creationist thinking. A small minority were fundamentalist Christians.

The report went on to say that this refusal to attend lessons, in which evolutionism is taught, is begining to trickle down into the school system, and school pupils are now leaving lessons when evolutionism is taught.

It does get rather complicated, about how much balance there should be, when teaching anything.

Should teachers be forced to teach, unobjectively, things they don't think to be true?

Have pupils the right to withdraw themselves from the education system, if they don't want to hear what's being taught?

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

You can give background information though, as to why things most likely happened.

You certainly can with the holocaust.

It can be argued the political instability that followed the 1914-18 war, was an ideal breeding ground for extremism to spread it's cancerous growth.

Rarely is anything black, or white.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Well come what are these facts?:rolleyes:

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Gordon, i think you may need to re read this thread yourself love, i most certainly am not on my own

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I see your point. And I do agree that most things fall into "grey" ... it's in these grey areas that kids have to think ... I believe that, short of outright indoctrination, and no way was the teacher guilty of that, kids can form their own opinion. I prefer a little bias to sanitization.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I just think it was nice they were paying attention to what was said, and they'd stopped texting long enough to hear it.

:D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

True.

Very often the answers lie in those long, dark shadowy areas of your's.

;):D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

So who the devil has ruined your pension? | Money | The Guardian suggest yeh have a sneck at that, was flagged up in 2004, the media were flagged up about it in the 90s, by many sources but in the main kept stum.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

My RE teacher did not believe in God but it did not mean she could not teach others the subject.


I don't believe they should be able to no.
If pupils don't hear all sides how are they supposed to make an educated decision what they believe themselves and not just what their parents want them to believe?

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

It does not only directly blame the government though does it? It list several reasons including people not paying into pension schemes for long enough and for living longer than projected. It also states people do not pay enough into pension pots so it backs up the governments current proposal for increased payments and work longer.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I said earlier who is to blame, which is gross mismangement of pension funds simple as, the government are merely making those who were crapped on Pay, instead of the Guilty ones, it was a tory government who first let em get away wi it, n labour did sod all afterwards,:mad: n people are too dense to see it, so they listen to the sanitized version n blame the poor gets that are penalized, pathetic in my view.:(

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

I agree but who should pay to sort out all those mismanaged pension funds?

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Those who mismanaged em,I.E. the Pension Funds,

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Eric there are two sides to every story, the teacher was only putting one side forward

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Funny you should mention that programme, I was just talking about it yesterday. Can you remember the name of it as I'd like to do some research.
To get back to the thread, brainwashing ( on religion not politics!)= was on the curriculum at Paddock House. I've been left with a lot of scars! Here in Sicily,it appears to be a teacher's right to influence (politically ) her students and in some cases the various high schools are chosen because of their political leanings!

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Religion was on the curriculum at every catholic school Sue, but non-catholics were excused from attending those lessons, well that was when I was at school don't know what happens now

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

It was originally called Seven Up.

Up Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of the early ones are on YouTube.

Some are heartbreaking, when you find out how their lives turned out, compared to the bright little kids they were.

We go "aah..." (Neil, Seven Up) - YouTube

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Yes, and some were so predictable -the little girl who wanted to marry and have loads of kids like her mum...no aspirations.

Neil in the video you've posted is the one I remember best -incredibly bright and lovely child from Liverpool...ended up getting into drugs at Uni. dropping out and suffering from depression. He did end up relatively well though living in the Lake District and getting into local politics as an adult but was so different to the child-Neil.

I think that most of the boys from the Pubblic school refused to be filmed later in the final set of episodes as adults...
The series was a wonderful idea...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

According to Apted, 56 Up is expected to have its broadcast premiere from 13 to 15 May 2012.

Goody.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Have they really continued the series...?

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Yes.

Though as you say, some have dropped out, and there'll just be a photograph, and a brief update.

The one after will see the girls being of pensionable age.

:eek:

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

The whole 35 Up, on one clip.

35 Up.Documentary - YouTube

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Ain't got time now to watch it -maybe tomorrow - wonder what happens to Neil in the next installment...He's the one I most admire somehow...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Having probs with my connection -must be my age...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Typical to write a "cazzata" it took 2 seconds....

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Oh-b*gg*r it.....................! Mistakes are a part of the dues one pays for a full life ----if only!!!

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

What's noticable to me, is how children's accents have changed, regardless of location.

The early clips seem like a spoof of some Ealing comedy.

Perhaps it's television, or immigration, that's created a fairly generic national accent, innit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngSGI...eature=related

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

For tomorrow.

49 Up (Michael Apted, The Up Series, 2005) Part 1 - YouTube

49 Up (Michael Apted, The Up Series, 2005) Part 2 - YouTube

:D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Ok ... will agree to that ... as long as we can replace "every" with "almost every", or "the vast majority";)

But I still argue that sanitizing issues, taking the sting and the controversy out of them is short changing students, in the same way that they are a being protected from the dire results of uncontrolled conkers. I just like to believe that, given the opportunity and maybe some analytical skills, kids can make up their own minds, come to their own conclusions.

And anyway, teachers are no longer the authority figures they used to be, they are just one part, maybe even a miniscule one, of the apparatus of influence that the "information age" has given us .... I guess I believe that as long as there is no outright attempt at coercion or indoctrination, this ain't a big issue.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Managed to watch most today -admit to skiping some as I'd seen it before. See what you mean about the accents...not all though - Nick's Yorkshire dales WAS sexy but got ruined by adding is American...Neil had little trace of the scouser. Remembered most of what happened to him except the Finding God bit -must admit it surprised me... Next installment 2012? Shpuld be interesting -the change from the 50's to now is so huge -we forget how far technology and wealth has brought most people compared to then...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Not so much that their accents changed, though they did.

The fact that no children speak like that anymore.

Children in London certainly don't.

Sad really.

Watching it now you notice how engineered, and unrepresentative the choice of children was.

I think it's about 95% of children who go to state schools, so in theory there should have been just one child from a public school, not a third.

It's very much 'posh' versus 'oiks'.

There are few if any kids from the vast range in the middle.

That said, still fascinating though.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

All things considered they all did pretty well in life and the range of things they ended up doing was pretty wide -no real career women though...

I wonder how they'd try to choose a group to follow from today's British society -would be hard to be representative...

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

You could have a better stab nowadays, to try and be more representative.

Their original concept always reminds me of this famous photograph.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Tt-rP3HXOcFpng

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Very apt - you are the central urchin of course:D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Actually I was just out of shot.

Selling my violets.

;)

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Should have realised it was you spoiling my pitch....:D

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Just wondered if you had any updates on this Bob seeing as you opened the thread and have not posted on it since... did your freind make a complaint to the school?..I think most parents would have done.

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Apologies..I got my Bob mixed up with Gordon..not for the first time;)

Re: Give me a child until he is seven-
 

Surely it's down to the father to put the kid "right" - in his own time! Right being, in his opinion. It's true though the government are trying to take money off the workers and they have a god damned right to strike! :alright: