Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

I must admit I despair of capitalism sometimes(hope Mancie and cmon don't see this).
Germany won't let the European Central Bank buy Government bonds from Greece, Spain etc to help them out of trouble.
So the ECB prints 489 billion non existent euros and lends them to the(privately owned) banks at 1%.
This is so the banks can buy Government bonds from Greece, Spain etc and charge them 5,6 or 7% interest.Thus the Germans aren't upset.
A good profit for the banks on money which they never had in the first place!
If the countries default, the 489 billion which never existed will disappear but the banks can't pay it back to the ECB(they never had it) so the 17 EU countries will have to make it up with another 489 billion which doesn't exist. That stops the banks going bust again .
Alternately the EU can write off the 489 billion because it never existed anyway, so not a problem.
In the meantime the (privately owned) banks make 24.5 billion euros a year profit for three years! Which will pay a lot of bonus's.
In the end every one is happy-the Germans, they got their way.
The Greeks, Spanish etc.-they were bailed out with money they didn't have to pay back.
The banks-heads they win, tails you lose.
The ECB-well, the money didn't really exist anyway.

Is that right or am I loosing my sanity?And why can't I run my finances that way?

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

If ya did Gordon they'd probably throw you in jail:rolleyes:

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Because you aren't a bank Gordon.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

It's called the "Money-go-round" Gordon -the faster it goes the sicker it makes you feel:rolleyes:

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

The answer, my friend...

Peter, Paul & Angela - 'Blowin' in the Wind'.

Peter Paul & Mary - Blowin in the wind - YouTube

;):D

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Arguably this isn't proper capitalism. It's crony capitalism. Central banks printing money devalues a currency and hits the middle class with inflation while the bankers run all the way to the.. bank.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

it hits any class and it was encouraged by thatcher who invited the private equity firms with the yuppie mentality to buy up utilities ,bt, british gas ,norweb etc,the europeans thought they saw a way out of their weak economies by copying thatcher policies and it created a monster which got out of control.name a company which expanded 10 fold without getting bought over by private equity firms which kept borrowing and bled the companies dry by keeping all the money for the shareholder before moving onto the next company to bleed them dry.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

This thread is not about companies...it is about the way banks conduct themsleves, but you just have to get your penny worth in.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

I must admit, Margaret, I was struggling to work out what cmon was on about.

I still am.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

and Gordon, you will continue to do so....this man knows how to cut and paste but very little else...or that is how it seems.......he certainly doesn't punctuate.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

but the shareholder society with insider trading and the banks on a mission to make as much money as they can for their shareholders.then they get their fingers burnt and we pay for it.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

for goodness sake .......go to bed!

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

no:D:D

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

This was not the point of what Gordon originally posted.
What he posted was about banks and non-existent money...a money go round......it is NOT about insider trading, or shareholder profits...it is about the illusory nature of banking.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Gordon don't let it bother you C'Mon doesn't know what he's on about 99% of the time

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Margaret your wasting your time, if he can't use the upper case tab on his keyboard, he sure as hell knows very little about anything else

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

banks and shareholders and dodgy trading are all related if you cant see that you know nothing about the situation we are in now.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

They might be related, but that wasn't what Gordon asked.........and you know that.

Gordon asked why he couldn't run his finances like the banks do...using non existent money....invisible assets.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

I said I hoped Mancie and cmon didn't see this!
I read up some more and the closing of the loop with the invisible money is quite elegant!
The banks have to provide security for borrowing the £489 billion so they buy Greek,Spanish etc bonds and give them to the ECB as security.
Greece, Spain etc default after the 3 year loan is up and don't pay anything back(so they're happy), the banks have made £73.5 billion profit and don't owe anything to anyone(so they're happy) and the ECB have up to £489 billion of worthless bonds(so they're not happy but it never existed anyway so what the hell!). The Germans have been given 3 more years to sort out taking over Europe so they're happy.
Everyone's happy!
Now how do I make it work for me and aren't you happy we're not in the euro zone?

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Yes Gordon......I'm ecstatic.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

and who kept us out, yes gordon brown a correct decision by the former prime minister who years down the line will be fully appreciated instead of being treated like a leper. yes he did make some mistakes but whos perfect eh;)

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Selling the gold off was a mistake?????? A 54 billion pound mistake, that is some mistake....what about stealing the pension pots too...doubling the 10 pence in the pound tax rate(and this is the party that look after the ordinary folk...it was the ordinary folk he doubled the tax bill for...those on low incomes). get away with you mon.......keeping us out of the Euro was the only good thing he did.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

were in agreement then:D:D just pullin your leg.:) merry christmas..

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Merry Christmas!

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Labour would have had us in the Euro had it not been so politically toxic! Miliband (Ed) still refuses to rule it out!

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Speculation is all yeh got! If me Grandma had balls,she would be me Grandad.:rolleyes::D

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Are ya sure:D

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Actually, if Brown had not hated Blair, to the extent that he would do almost anything to spite him, we would be in the Euro now. No speculation, fact.

Cameron has ruled it out, full stop.

So it matters nothing at all what EdM either says, or does not say. He is destined never to rise any higher nor enter Downing Street as anything other than a guest of the current occupant - a fact that we must all give thanks for.

In any case, the euro, in its current form: diguised DMark, will not last the coming year. There will be a five speed europe and a two speed Euro very soon.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

If your Grandma had balls she would have been a national sensation and you would have been a good deal richer today than you are. :D

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

FACT...the closest Britian has come to joining any EU single currency was when the Thatcher Government joined the ERM (European Exchange Rate Mechanism) the for runner of the Euro..and those without short memories or blue tinted specs will know the sort of damage that did to our economy.:rolleyes:

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

here here and people forget the tories signed the maastrich treaty while trying to fend off a back bench revolt over europe i keep seeing de ja vu

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Just remind me who opposed the opt out of social provisions for the Maastricht Treaty..... Was it Labour by any chance? Or is that rose tinted specs.
Then there's the, Nice and Lisbon Treaties all of which have taken away more power from us, all since 1997-2007.

A saying involving Glasshouses comes to mind.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

the social provisions to fight poverty and give workers rights;) the same ones the tories are trying to eradicate now by trying to get rid of the tupe regulations etc;)

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

What "opt out" of social provisions are you on about? .. The Treaty of Rome was signed way back in the 70's by the Heath Government... the Lisbon Treaty was simply the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty which had been signed by John Major (but that's not how the tory press reported it)... I hope you know how to pilot planes around Europe better than you know the facts on treaties.:)

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

There's no need to be personal Mancie, okay so maybe I was wrong on this.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Well there's one thing I think we both remember about treaties BG is we didn't get the promised referendum before the one eye jock signed the Lisbon treaty;)

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

or liqidated the country's gold reserves

or attempted to fix future elections by inviting in anyone who cared to come

or failed to regulate the city

or signed us up to bail out europe

and so on and so on...

there are none so blind as the ideologically hidebound and blinkered

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

But you won't get any points from Mancie or C'mon for telling it like it is...they see the whole thing through specs of a different colour.
Well said A-B....and not because I am a tory supporter, but because it is true.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

I am not labouring under any delusions that what I have to say can influence anyone or change what they think. I leave that sort of madness to politicians.

These two do come across a bit like a tired old double act, same jokes/opinions every night. And everytime we hear them they are less and less funny/relevant.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

No, we the sensible ones.....(for that is how I see those who can see through the spin of political smoke and mirrors) will not change much, despite the fact that we should be able to(through democratic process). And I have to say that I am open to reasoned discussion, and well thought out arguments, but as you have observed the same old, same old gets trotted out for a regular airing without any real thought having been put into what is being said, no real vision having been used, just the blinkered version that they are fed....they are just led by their own political dogma.
Ah well, never mind. What can you do when your shoes let the watter in(as my Gran used to say over an insoluble problem).

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Get the six inch heels out, Margaret, and camp it up!

Monty Python's Camp Marching - YouTube

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

isnt our fault you dont know the true facts and not the ones you read in the tory dominated press;)

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

oh go on, you'll be trying to tell us next that there is no such thing as the tooth fairy and that father Christmas is just a money making scheme dreamt up by evil capitalists for their own enrichment.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

ey up! Peas have getten the'r yeds above sticks!

Maybe, if you gave us a few true facts instead of doctored Labour spin, we might learn a bit....ah, but I forget your main talent in life is cutting and pasting from sensationalist headlines....not good at doing your own dialogue are you?(that was a rhetorical question by the way)

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Now thats a joke, wasn't aware you could read

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

There are untrue facts? Can you give me one?

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Britain won WWII.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

No...you got that wrong......we won the war, but we lost the peace...gave it to Charles De Gaulle. He took it grudgingly. Been paying through the nose ever since.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

That's a good one, ToffeGuy, but it's not a fact, true or untrue!
The USA and the USSR won WWII. We just happened to be allied to the winning side, with little say or influence in the end.
We didn't win the Peace, either.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

There is reward for effort.

Re: Can Peter pay Paul so Paul can pay Peter?
 

Sometimes there is......sometimes there isn't. It depends on the contract.

Perhaps an untrue fact would be.........bad deeds will be punished or that British justice is fair.......