Lawless Society?
 

Here's a great example.

He's in his mid twenties. Drives a car with no MOT, tax or insurance. He says:

"So I have an accident. So what? I'll drive a banged up car.

If it gets written off? So what. I'll get another car..

So I hit somebody else? Tough.

So I get done for no tax. What they gonna do, fine me? I won't pay it.

So what they gonna do? Send me to jail? So what. At least they'll feed me."

How do you reason with that?

Re: Lawless Society?
 

At the risk of being non P.C.,prison is my answer.Overcrowded jails they say,build more....Outer Hebrides,if possible.
One of these scumbags crashed an uninsured car into a friend's car ,the resulting collision killed the passenger in the uninsured car and resulted in my friend receiving brain damage,he may never work again.
Sorry P.C. brigade;softly ,softly hasn't worked!

Re: Lawless Society?
 

What happened to your friend is awful Lampman :( I can totally understand your reaction.

On Friday last we saw three cars drive through Peel Street bus station in a matter of minutes, which made me think of the 'hit and run' post on here. I did wonder if the young man I mentioned was the one driving that particular car but so far I haven't been able to find out what he currently drives. I know you can't go jumping to conclusions but you cn't help what springs to mind either can you?

I'd like to wish your friend all the best and hope he can make a recovery but it doesn't sound good from what you said.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

TOTALLY AGREE Lampman except.....as demonstrated in Willows post above, Prisons are way too soft on interns (thanks to Polital Correctness)
They demand and get their rights but in truth, they shouldn't have any, just the basics to see them through one day to another without the colour TV's Video's etc!!

I think your idea of building a prison in the Outer Hebredes is a great idea, Make it an open prison. NO WALLS, NO HEATING, in fact NO NOTHING!! (sorry about the double negative, but you know what I mean!) and put the Paedophiles, Rapists and Murderers in there. Lovely idea, but Europe and the PC Brigade would interfere unfortunatly.:(

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Slap on the wrist? That would be considered assault and not allowed.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Ah !Yes, Lancaster Farm, the pinnacle of achievment for the young yob......they openly boast of the wish to go there(don't get me started).
Thousands upon thousands of pounds per year/per person are spent in an attempt to keep these young yobs out of the establishment,only to fail and have them boast of their success.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Oh there is so much I could say on this subject. Prison is no longer a punishment it is a rehabilitation, or so they would like us to believe. Who are they fooling?

Two young murderers have been given the very best of educational opportunities and a whole new life upon release. They ahae in effect been rewarded for their crime because they would not otherwise have had such opportunities.

Meanwhile the lives of those they have ruined (an I do not use that term loosely) spiral ever downwards. Victim support? Don't make me laugh. Criminal Injuries Compensation Board? I once said it should be renamed 'Injured Criminals Compensation Board' because it seems they are the ones who benefit. No longer can we say "crime doesn't pay" when we have evidence all around us that not only does it pay but it pays a damn site better than anything many honest citizens are ever likely to see.

No doubt there will be many who disagree with us but I think you have a valid point rockrabbit. In countries where there is a physical deterrant (ie something which is going to hurt) there tends to be less crime. The Isle of Man is a classic example

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Rockrabbit, There are SO many people agree with you, not only on this site but throughout the country.........Unfortunately, we are all dominated by the PC Bridgade and NOTHING is going to reverse this trend except a totally right-wing government which would cause more problems than we have at the moment!

What we need is a government that rejects European law, puts victims before the criminal, and gives confidence back to the British (no matter what colour or ethnic origin)

If a person rapes, condemn him/her (yes, Women can rape too) to hell!
If a person is found not to be British,(as in having a valid passport) or speaks anti-British slogans...DEPORT immediately!! (Antarctica sounds good!)
Let anyone who is law abiding live in peace with the knowledge that they are being protected by the government that will not tolerate violence/murder/rape/guns.

AND THEN I WOKE UP.......What a lovely dream, but it does not take into account the greed of politicians, (you only have to look at the bonuses they vote to give themselves)

Maybe the "birch" is too strong for misdemeaneurs but the only way out of this spiral is for a government that is strong enough to stand up against the PC Brigade, stand up against European madness and to respect the rights of lawful individuals to live their lives in safety.

As of now, there is no such party that offer us this, Only one comes close and they are racially predudice and must NEVER come to power! (Hitler, stay in hell!)

If such a party emerged, and one that I could trust) they would have my vote every time!

Re: Lawless Society?
 

My dad got side swiped on Burnley rd, just passed the Hapton Inn is an Indian resturant and a Pakistani came out without looking and ran right in to the side of him the police said the guy was in the wrong and summond him for dangerous driving, undue care and attention, not giving way to a vehicle on a main rd, Not having a valid driving licence (it turned out to be his brothers) NO insurance plus a couple of other charges, The guy said he would pay for all repairs on my dads car and signed a bit of paper the cop gave him to that effect,a copy my dad keeps as a souvenir, When he went to court the guy did not turn up, seems he had left the country and there was nothing anyone could do, the cop said it happens all the time and he would have liked to have arrested the guy on the spot but his hands were tied, no one was hurt badly and by law he has to take the mans word he would pay or be heavily fined when he came to court. It cost a 2000 pounds for the repairs.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Nice dream Busman but welcome back to the nightmare.

I concurr that certain party should never gain control of this country but I fear they might - this is what tends to happen when the pendulum has swung too far in one direction, it will swing back even further the other way. People will reach a point where they can take no more.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

but wouldn't we all like to see some form of the birch back, its been very effective in the isle of man // why not here ?

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Use to be Mez..use to be. Been banned in the IOM for some considerable time. Initially, it was theoretically possible, but with the advent of the European Human Rights Act.....banned!!!

Nobody should have human rights without human responsibilities. :engsmil: :engsmil:

Punishment should fit the crime :engsmil: :engsmil:

Political Correctness must first be banned, and then thrown away!

BIRCHING?

When I joined the Royal Navy as a 15 year old, we had a severe punishment called "CUTS" which was a birch rod applied to the bare bum. The offender has either 6, 9 or 12 CUTS awarded as punishment for crimes such as Stealing, Going AWOL, Insubordination, fighting, and possessing an offensive weapon (Seamans knives were issued and OK). We had some real hard cases form London, Liverpool and Glasgow....but I only ever remember 1 getting that punishment more than once....simply ...it worked. I also remember going to the IOM with a gang of lads from Accy, 17 of us. We ran into a bit of trouble with some tough nuts from Glasgow (Glasgow Holiday fortnight) and we nearly came to blows. What stopped us, was the threat of the birch, which at the time (1965) was used to great effect in the IOM. Again...it worked.

I think all young people who offend should have one chance...and then the ceiling should fall in on them. Prison is not what it should be....hard labour is more like it. Fair but hard. Any priviledges (extra blankets, more food, books to read..and limited to that) must be earned. Any drugs will immediately mean loss of priviledges...and extra hard labour, or cold turkey for a year!

The problems have been exacerbated by the pollies, and the PC brigade who themselves should do hard labour for leading this country into the mess it has become.

But most of all...the law has to be seen to be done, and justice for the victim is paramount!

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Re: Lawless Society?
 

LAWLESS SOCIETY 2

A man in Liverpool was taken to court last week for "littering" He was fined £50-00 plus £85-00 costs. "Great" I hear you all say, but what was the "litter?".........a match!! Did the courts take into account that it is bio-degradable?

A case of "If we can't catch the criminals, we will catch the almost criminals:confused:

Re: Lawless Society?
 

If a match in Liverpool can be deserving of a £50 fine how much should HBC be liable for? I refer to the rubbish which finds its way into my garden every bin day. But of course there is no way our poor strapped for cash council could afford to pay any fines.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

A couple of years ago someone ran into my car (which was parked outside my house) causing £3,600 worth of damage. He then bounced into the car in front writing it off and caused this car to shunt into the car in front. He was arrested and charged with no tax, insurance and m.o.t. His punishment? Fined £100 for no insurance, £50 for no tax & £40 for no m.o.t. My insurance excess is £200 so not only did I have the inconvenience of 2 weeks without my car I had to pay more in excess than his fines. My insurance company pursued him for the money but as he was on benefits, he was deemed unable to pay. It makes my blood boil to think I pay £350 per annum for insurance when idiots like him get off almost scott free. I could have saved a fortune over the 25 years I have been buying insurance. If I'd have not bothered, who would know? I've had no accidents culminating in a claim.
Why don,t thecourts reflect the seriousness of the actions and fine people more than it would cost them to buy insurance? As I see it, it's worth the risk not bothering.
Jelly Baby

Re: Lawless Society?
 

That's an excellent example Jelly Baby. Very sad and frustrating but prove's the point exactly...

It remind's me of when I was a Motorbiker in the late 80's I spent a lot of time with a gang of bikers near my home 95% of them nice lad's just into bike's. But I remember at the time many would talk about MOT's .. They cost about £12 to get an MOT plus repair's to get your bike up to scratch, Yet the fine was £10 for not having any MOT.....?????

So it was a huge temptation (one which I avoided) to many to break the law, due to how easy it was to escape the police on a motorbike, and if you did get caught occasionally it was still cheaper than being Legal..

The punishment attached to breaking a law should be a deterent NOT an attraction to break the said law:(

Until the court's etc get this under control we WILL live in a lawless society..:(

Re: Lawless Society?
 

In many ways I feel sorry for the police. They make the arrest then the courts pass a ridiculous sentence. The cop who dealt with the guy who crashed told me not to expect him to be able to pay anything for the damage he caused as he was on benefits, and the magistrates have to take this into account when dishing out the fines. Every week in the Observer you can see examples of the paltry fines given out for these sorts of crimes. It's about time the justice system was sorted out and that sentencing reflected the seriousness of the crime, and I mean ALL crime not just motoring offences.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

An idiot ran into the back of my car on the M1 in broad daylight, good visibility. Yes, there was heavy traffic and the motorway came to a standstill. However, I stopped safely, he did not. My beloved little GTi was badly bashed, and the repairs came to over £1,200. I had conversations with this loon, and he said he wanted to pay me direct, not through his insurance company, and he was expecting a legacy. I checked, and he had no insurance ....

What does this paragon do for a living? - He's a town planner. Says a lot, doesn't it!

As to punishment, I think banging up for a long period is a great idea. Prison is no joke for most people, the loss of liberty is awful, I can guarantee that - I was at a convent boarding school - made most modern prisons seem like heaven! Life should, in most cases, mean life. The person killed can't resume their life - they were not given that option. Why should their killer be?

It has to be said, however, that thieving becomes more difficult and less attractive when you have had a hand cut off for a previous offence.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Oh, by the way, I never got a penny out of the *******!

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Currently it is much easier and cheaper to live outside the law - I pay more in car insurance in a year than my car is worth. Fortunately (or unfortunately for me?) I have been brought up to have a consience and that's why I bother to pay. Just the thought of going to court is enough to deter me from breaking the law - even if it would actually work out cheaper for me.

But I can see why people don't bother when there is no deterrent. I completely agree that the punishment should fit the crime. But I don't agree that throwing everyone who has commited any crime into a small cell in a prison would be the answer. For starters, we, the law-abiding tax payer has to pay for them to be there! That brings me onto anther thing - anyone who goes to prison and has any money in the bank should have to pay their costs for being there.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

I wouldn't mind my taxes paying for wrongdoers to be locked up, if it was actually a punishment. They have more gadgets and luxuries than I do. Who says crime doesn't pay?:rolleyes:

Re: Lawless Society?
 

I wonder if it could be possible for the prisons to make the inmates earn their keep so that we the tax payers do not have to foot the bill?

If they were made to work harder and had no luxuries such as TV then maybe it would seem more like a punishment too and be more of a deterrant. I agree that there hardly seems any sense in fines which are so much less than it would ahve cost to tax the vehicle and be legal. It's no wownder unscrupulous people prefer to take the risk.

Bring back the chain gangs! Or, here's an idea, get them working cleaning the streets and tidying up town centres.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Quote: (Originally Posted by mez)
but wouldn't we all like to see some form of the birch back, its been very effective in the isle of man // why not here ?
Good job ***** is no longer viewing, he would be reduced to a quivering mess at that remark Mez ;) (and you would have lost karma points like the rest of us lol)
___________________________
http://members.aol.com/GH707707/bus.gif

Last edited by Neal : Today at 01:49. Reason: User 'Kippex' used in the post

The name is Kipax Neal, get it right!!

Re: Lawless Society?
 

If I'm allowed to mention his name I'd just like to say that I hope he will eventually realise that just because people didn't bring their children up the way he did it doesn't mean that we were saying he should have brought his children up our way. We just have different points of view.

I notice that although Neal edited Busman's post no-one edited Sparkologist's where he commented on tantrums etc. I believe both were posted tongue in cheek.

I haven't demanded an apology for the accusations against me of hitting my children because it's obvious that we are on a totally different wavelength when it comes to the perception of the word "smack" so come on Kippax. I know this will all be brought to your attention so can't we just agree to disagree on some things and get on with life? I'll still do things my way and you still do things your way. It works for you, it works for me. And I would still welcome the advice I asked for several times because it may come in handy under other circumstances.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Oops, should that have been one P or two? Sorry if I made a mistake.

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Re: Lawless Society?
 

Was that a football joke?

Re: Lawless Society?