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cashman 09-01-2012 22:43

Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Have seen today Cameron calling fer the jocks to have a referendum on Independence, also seems to think they should have a straight Yes or No, n also relatively quicker than Mr Salmon would like it!. Funny how like the Labour Party,he will not give the British one on the E.U. also i recall someone saying a referendum would take about 2 years to organise, Well according to him,thats unless it happens to be the Jocks.:rolleyes: This smacks of hypocrisy to me, n demonstrates once again to me, how they are all as bad as each other.:(

Mancie 09-01-2012 23:21

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
I think Cameron is trying to call the SNP's bluff...and yes it does smack of hypocrisy.. the whole of Parliment shoud vote on wether there should be any referendum on Independence..but failing that I hope he is serious and demands a straight yes/no vote.

ToffeeGuy 10-01-2012 01:10

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
The rest of the UK countries should beat the Scots to it and have their own referendum on whether they want Scotland to be part of the Union or not.

Less 10-01-2012 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy (Post 961441)
The rest of the UK countries should beat the Scots to it and have their own referendum on whether they want Scotland to be part of the Union or not.

The Shetland islands should be made a special case and not included as part of Scotland so we can keep the oil & gas.

Eric 10-01-2012 05:17

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 961436)
I think Cameron is trying to call the SNP's bluff...and yes it does smack of hypocrisy.. the whole of Parliment shoud vote on wether there should be any referendum on Independence..but failing that I hope he is serious and demands a straight yes/no vote.

It's a smart move. Especially the "yes/no" thing ... "put up, or shut up."

jaysay 10-01-2012 08:22

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
I think he's right to ask for a quick referendum on Scotland, the only thing is it should be open to all the UK. I'm sure if that was the case it would be an overwhelming yes vote, after all if they want free prescriptions, education etc. let them pay for it out of taxed raised in Scotland not on the backs of the rest of the UK and that goes for Wales too

cashman 10-01-2012 08:48

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 961449)
I think he's right to ask for a quick referendum on Scotland, the only thing is it should be open to all the UK. I'm sure if that was the case it would be an overwhelming yes vote, after all if they want free prescriptions, education etc. let them pay for it out of taxed raised in Scotland not on the backs of the rest of the UK and that goes for Wales too

I do not dispute that fact, but that is not the point of the thread,:rolleyes: A point yeh have unsurprisingly chosen to avoid.:rolleyes:

jaysay 10-01-2012 08:55

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 961455)
I do not dispute that fact, but that is not the point of the thread,:rolleyes: A point yeh have unsurprisingly chosen to avoid.:rolleyes:

No I haven't, I made my thoughts quite clear in the Graham Jones debate about the European Referendum, when I said we should be allowed to decide for ourselves about Europe, still haven't changed my mind, but the scottish issue its different, I think Cameron is calling Salmons bluff and by his reactions it appears he's hit the nail squarely on Salmons thumb:rolleyes:

cashman 10-01-2012 12:14

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 961458)
No I haven't, I made my thoughts quite clear in the Graham Jones debate about the European Referendum, when I said we should be allowed to decide for ourselves about Europe, still haven't changed my mind, but the scottish issue its different, I think Cameron is calling Salmons bluff and by his reactions it appears he's hit the nail squarely on Salmons thumb:rolleyes:

Call salmons bluff or not,is not what this is all about, I am well aware of what yeh said on the G.J. debate, The point is simple "Cameron" would give the jocks a referendum,but "NOT" us. if that aint hypocrisy i have no idea what the word means.

Gordon Booth 10-01-2012 12:16

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 961484)
Call salmons bluff or not,is not what this is all about, I am well aware of what yeh said on the G.J. debate, The point is simple "Cameron" would give the jocks a referendum,but "NOT" us. if that aint hypocrisy i have no idea what the word means.

If you're in Government you only hold a referendum if you're sure you can win it!

cashman 10-01-2012 12:19

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 961486)
If you're in Government you only hold a referendum if you're sure you can win it!

Well aware of that fact also,Don't make it any less Hypocritical.

Eric 10-01-2012 13:46

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 961487)
Well aware of that fact also,Don't make it any less Hypocritical.

You're right ... and what the Scots seem to want is what lotsa folks in England want vis a vis the EU: political, cultural, etc. independence and security, and an economic relationship which works in their favor. The separatistes in la belle province wanted the same thing too. I suppose the modern buzz term for what the jocks want it is "friends with benefits", with the English taxpayer getting a right royal screwing. But your point that Cameron is prepared to give the scots a voice in their future, and at the same time refusing to give that same option to England is well taken.

cashman 10-01-2012 15:05

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 961492)
You're right ... and what the Scots seem to want is what lotsa folks in England want vis a vis the EU: political, cultural, etc. independence and security, and an economic relationship which works in their favor. The separatistes in la belle province wanted the same thing too. I suppose the modern buzz term for what the jocks want it is "friends with benefits", with the English taxpayer getting a right royal screwing. But your point that Cameron is prepared to give the scots a voice in their future, and at the same time refusing to give that same option to England is well taken.

To my way of thinking Eric, one of the big problems oer here is, many are prepared to slag the opposition on these issues, but when their own lot do the same,silence is golden, cos they aint got the balls,:rolleyes: this problem is a thing "All Parties" are of the same mind of, The fact people aint got the backbone to say "Hey i aint having that" when it's there own lot,is a sad indictment of todays society!

Acrylic-bob 10-01-2012 15:44

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
I think that you have called it right there Cashy. Hypocrisy is the word, plain and simple.

However, I do think that the Scots should be given a referendum on whether they want to remain a part of the UK. I agree with Cameron that it should be a simple in - out question. This idea of independence 'lite' can never work and will only serve to cause more resentment than there exists at present.

If the Scots want to go, let them, and good riddance to them.

As I posted some time ago, an out vote in a referendum will advance the cause of a referendum on England's membership of the EU, since all treaties will have to be renegotiated once the United Kingdom is no longer United.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2012 18:55

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
And if Scotland wants to stay in the EU it will have to re-apply as a new member, and as such it would be forced to adopt the Euro as currency....now isn't that just enought to put them off?

jaysay 10-01-2012 18:58

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 961573)
And if Scotland wants to stay in the EU it will have to re-apply as a new member, and as such it would be forced to adopt the Euro as currency....now isn't that just enought to put them off?

Margaret we're talking about jocks here ya know, half of um would cut their nose of to spite their face where the English are concerned:rolleyes:

Mancie 10-01-2012 20:38

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 961573)
And if Scotland wants to stay in the EU it will have to re-apply as a new member, and as such it would be forced to adopt the Euro as currency....now isn't that just enought to put them off?

I think it is one of many things that will put them off if it's a straight yes/no vote on totally leaving the UK.. people on here can say what they like about the Scots but they're not known as stupid when it comes to money matters!;)

cmonstanley 10-01-2012 20:45

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
here we go dinosaur politics you will find if there was a referendum the answer would be no, as most people in scotland and england have relations in each country or descended from each other.the snp have a vocal following who infaltrate every website going to make them sound popular.they try and make out they are more scottish the you if you disagree with them.ive had a few run in with sepratists but when you confront them by asking policies or will we pay more taxes they try and attack you the alex salmond way .they are just a bunch of little scotlanders with a nazi atitude.the canny scottish public have only voted for the snp as there has been a council tax freeze for the last 5 years;):D

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2012 20:50

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 961612)
I think it is one of many things that will put them off if it's a straight yes/no vote on totally leaving the UK.. people on here can say what they like about the Scots but they're not known as stupid when it comes to money matters!;)

I don't think anyone believes that the people of the Scottish nation are stupid when it comes to money matters.
I think the possibility that they would have to re-apply to the EU to gain membership, if that was what they wanted(after all, they might be given some say in the matter....while we poor burgers have to lump it) and doing so would force them into the single currency...might just put them off.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2012 20:53

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 961615)
here we go dinosaur politics you will find if there was a referendum the answer would be no, as most people in scotland and england have relations in each country or descended from each other.the snp have a vocal following who infaltrate every website going to make them sound popular.they try and make out they are more scottish the you if you disagree with them.ive had a few run in with sepratists but when you confront them by asking policies or will we pay more taxes they try and attack you the alex salmond way .they are just a bunch of little scotlanders with a nazi atitude.the canny scottish public have only voted for the snp as there has been a council tax freeze for the last 5 years;):D

Why is it Dinosaur politics then.

I think it has been mentioned before in this thread, politicians only opt for a referendum if they feel they are going to get the answer they want.
I am sure Alex Salmond would not be advocating a referendum if he thought that the answer would be 'NO'.

Neil 10-01-2012 20:55

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 961510)
I think that you have called it right there Cashy. Hypocrisy is the word, plain and simple.

However, I do think that the Scots should be given a referendum on whether they want to remain a part of the UK. I agree with Cameron that it should be a simple in - out question. This idea of independence 'lite' can never work and will only serve to cause more resentment than there exists at present.

If the Scots want to go, let them, and good riddance to them.

As I posted some time ago, an out vote in a referendum will advance the cause of a referendum on England's membership of the EU, since all treaties will have to be renegotiated once the United Kingdom is no longer United.

If they vote to stay in the UK do you think the Scottish Parliament should be shut down? I do.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2012 20:57

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
In a word, YES.
It is an unnecessary expense...and one which could be ditched.

mobertol 10-01-2012 21:00

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 961621)
If they vote to stay in the UK do you think the Scottish Parliament should be shut down? I do.

What, after it cost about £195 million to build?!:eek::rolleyes::D

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2012 21:06

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
They could always turn it into a Mosque...or executive apartments.

cmonstanley 10-01-2012 21:08

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
1 Attachment(s)
a waste of money in my eyes comic book politics a bunch of under raters coining it in.i hate the snp and all what it stands for ..united we stand divided we fall dinosaur politics by taking the country backwards instead of forwards..

ToffeeGuy 10-01-2012 22:50

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 961442)
The Shetland islands should be made a special case and not included as part of Scotland so we can keep the oil & gas.

The Shetlands will get the option of returning Norwegian rule.

ToffeeGuy 10-01-2012 23:06

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Hey, just think of the positives for Scottish Independence, 59 MPs would be made unemployed, 41 being Labour (which will no doubt please some people on this forum).

Personally, I'm in favour of Scottish Independence as I own shares in a flag making company.

And I also want independence for the North of England.

accyman 11-01-2012 00:15

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
i think we should have a referndum to see if England wants to be a part of the UK or not :)

Seems to me just like been part of euorpe Englands primary job is to hand out free stuff to other countries.Maybe if we wernt part of the UK we wouldnt feel obiged to honour the UK's agreements and get the hell out of europe :D

jaysay 11-01-2012 09:08

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 961621)
If they vote to stay in the UK do you think the Scottish Parliament should be shut down? I do.

Think you spot on on Neil, its all well and good giving free this and free the other but if they actually said yes we want independence, most of them know, including Mr Salmon, that the gray train from Westminster would be derailed, and life up north would cease to be subsidies by tax payers from the rest of the UK. I have never understood how we can call our country the United Kingdom as we haven't been that since the onset of the welsh assembly and Scottish Parliament, if your United your all treated the same, which certainly isn't the case now

Acrylic-bob 11-01-2012 14:36

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
If cmonstanley is right and the result of any referendum would be to maintain the union, can we hope then the the Scots would drop the chipiness and the perpetual sense of victimhood?

gynn 11-01-2012 14:52

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 961752)
If cmonstanley is right and the result of any referendum would be to maintain the union, can we hope then the the Scots would drop the chipiness and the perpetual sense of victimhood?

Doubt it. Hating the English is a national pastime north of the border. Its why we love them so much. and they will also still cheer on whoever England are playing against in World Cup matches. They are the rebellious teenagers of the family.

If they vote to retain the Union, it will be like the old saying.....

Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em!

mobertol 11-01-2012 15:26

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
They do plan to wait till after Wimbledon before they decided, don't they?

Wouldn't like to have waited all my lifetime to see a British man win, only for it to be an independant Scotsman.

I'm betting on Murray this year now he's got Lendl as coach.:D

Acrylic-bob 11-01-2012 15:54

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Interesting comment on the issue in the Telegraph and one that Call-me-Dave would do well to take notice of...

"I believe it's important for the English to have as little to do with this as possible, otherwise if it all goes pear-shaped it will all be our fault.
Let the Scots make the running"

Acrylic-bob 11-01-2012 15:57

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 961760)
They do plan to wait till after Wimbledon before they decided, don't they?

Wouldn't like to have waited all my lifetime to see a British man win, only for it to be an independant Scotsman.

I'm betting on Murray this year now he's got Lendl as coach.:D

Hope springs eternal, I suppose. But Monotonic Murray has about as much chance as Henman.

gynn 11-01-2012 16:51

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 961760)

I'm betting on Murray this year now he's got Lendl as coach.:D

The Lendl who never won Wimbledon? I'd keep your money in your pocket lol.

Tealeaf 11-01-2012 17:02

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
I wonder if any of you lot know the story of how the Jocks managed to get a couple of Panda bears shipped over to Edinburgh Zoo? I doubt if it is many of you, but it’s an interesting tale; to cut my typing short, I've stuck a few links in which give some of the detail.

Anyway, here we go. The Nobel Peace Prize, as you are aware, is awarded by a committee of five Norwegian parliamentarians (the other Nobel’s are awarded by the Swedes). Two years ago, the prize was awarded to the human rights campaigner, Liu Xiaobo. As you can guess, he's Chinese and his government were not exactly happy bunnies over this. So peeved off were they that they retaliated by effectively blocking the export of Norwegian salmon to China. Read about it here:

AFP: Norwegian salmon off the menu in China

The only other major supplier of farmed Atlantic salmon is, of course, Scotland. Now, you would have assumed that Scotland, being a good neighbour of Norway and sharing many of its maritime bounties, would have sought not to take advantage of this. There are, after all, certain principles at stake. But that is not quite what happened. Read on:

BBC News - Chinese appetite for Scottish salmon leaps

As part of the deal, Salmon got his Pandas.

Anyway, if there is a lesson to this story, it's this: Never thrust the Jocks - they are as morally bankrupt as they are financially and the sooner we have a referendum in England on whether to continue our union with them, the better. Lets end it now and the only question that will then remain will be how high we build the frontier walls to keep 'em out
.

Tealeaf 11-01-2012 17:03

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
...and I'll stick to the Norwegian stuff.

jaysay 11-01-2012 17:40

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 961760)
They do plan to wait till after Wimbledon before they decided, don't they?

Wouldn't like to have waited all my lifetime to see a British man win, only for it to be an independant Scotsman.

I'm betting on Murray this year now he's got Lendl as coach.:D

Na you've got that wrong mobertol, when he wins he's British when he loses he's just that useless jock:D

DaveinGermany 22-01-2012 13:00

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Must admit, it does seem a bit ironic that he's prepared to let the Scots decide their future & allegiances but the English don't get a say in their own future. Still as to the Jocks & their plans, it appears it won't be the damned English throwing spanners in the works :-

Spain could wield veto over Scotland's EU membership - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Margaret Pilkington 22-01-2012 13:20

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
And British Embassies around the world would cease to promote Scottish products.
It may seem a pretty small knock, but it would still have an economic effect.

gynn 22-01-2012 13:32

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
The Scots are stuck with us and want to get away. The Falkland Islanders are wanted by someone else but want to stay with us......

...could we possibly give Scotland to the Argies?

Just a thought. :(

Margaret Pilkington 22-01-2012 13:58

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
What have the Argies done to deserve lumbering them with Scotland?

gynn 22-01-2012 14:08

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 964102)
What have the Argies done to deserve lumbering them with Scotland?

We never ever got our own back for Maradonna's 'Hand of God'.......

DaveinGermany 22-01-2012 14:16

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gynn (Post 964103)
We never ever got our own back for Maradonna's 'Hand of God'.......

And it's a pretty good bet the Jocks were cheering it on too. :eek:

Margaret Pilkington 22-01-2012 15:20

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Yeah but c'mon.....No, you are right! (it was the C'mon that swung it) :D:D

ToffeeGuy 22-01-2012 23:50

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Anyone thought about the clocks not having to go back or forward if Scotland got independence?

jaysay 23-01-2012 08:34

Re: Tory Hypocrisy?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 964104)
And it's a pretty good bet the Jocks were cheering it on too. :eek:

A pretty good bet:eek: a racing certainty:rolleyes:


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