Allotments
 

It seems there was quite a rumpus at last night's Council meeting over proposals to raise allotment rents. Many allotment holders were present at the meeting to voice their concerns.

In my day, allotments were seen as a valuable service that the local authority provided to its citizens, especially in a town like Accrington with its plethora of grid iron streets with back yards rather than gardens. When I worked for the Council, I never remember there being a great deal of discussion over the annual increases, which were never very great, partly because they were written into long term agreements, but also partly because the Council recognised the value to the wellbeing of the community. The allotments were aleays run at a deficit, but this cost to the Council taxpayer was always seen as reasonable.

I suppose times have changed, and the council of today is not the Council of 20 years ago. Massive cuts in funding have made it review everything it does. And compared to other pressing demands, allotment subsidies have to be considered.

The Observer reporter suggests that the sort of increase we are talking about is from 25 pounds plus water to around 200 pounds. My sympathies go out to those allotment holders who can't afford those sorts of increases, and who have tended their allotments for years to see the fruits of their labours perhaps about to be taken from them.

I just hope there were no allotment holders shouting their mouths off at last nights meeting who, while supporting the Coalition Government's efforts to reduce public spending, could actually put their hands on their hearts and say they could easily afford such an increase.

That would be hypocrisy of the first order.

Re: Allotments
 

Are you a civil servant? :hehetable

Re: Allotments
 

No a Realist.

Re: Allotments
 

i suppose it could be worse at least they havnt built a mosque over them ;)


when i lived up spring hill area an old man tended his alotment each day without fail rain or shine.He had given up planting food but switched to flowers and to be frank about it the sight was a little oasis from the view from my back room window and i hope any increases dont effect people liek him so badly that these nice alotments end up been over run and home to fly tipping and asda trollys because they can no longer afford the rents on them.

Re: Allotments
 

Posted in Nightlife, days out etc, by Dusty: Baxenden Allotments & Gardens Society are holding a meeting at 8pm, Tuesday 24 Jan; Bash Con Club - up manchester road.
It's hoped reps from the NAALG and HBC will attend.
The meeting is open to any allotment holder or interested party.
We hope that at least 1 rep from each of the Hyndburn allotment sites will be able to come along. We need to work together on this.
Stephen Lowe (Radio Lanc's), was at the council meeting last night when Cllr Marlene Howarth put forward a motion to recind the rent rises. He's going to feature an article about the issue on his radio programme this sunday

Re: Allotments
 

Bloody disgusting what HBC are planning to do with the rent rises, especially after being told about some of the wastages of tax payers money by HBC last year out of the allotment money allocation, £500+ on a tap repair, £21,000 on a carpark! How dare they treat us citizens like this, a lot of allotment owners are pensioners, hardly paid a vast amount on state pensions, what about the health & wellbeing, as I bet a fair few have been advised of the health benefits of light exercise & fresh air when tending to their allotments, back off HBC what you are proposing to do is surely illegal, but not just that when this gets contested in court yet more of our money will be wasted by HBC on court costs etc.

Re: Allotments
 

Bash Con Club? Do me a favour. :hehetable

I think you've shot yourself in the foot before the campaign gets off the ground.

How many members of Bash Conservative Club fall into the category of 'needy Hyndburn citizen deserving special subsidy from the Counciltaxpayer?'

Re: Allotments
 

This article in The Telegraph last year explains that when waiting lists are long, councils should provide more by buying land for it.

Councils exploit legal loophole to get out of providing allotments - Telegraph
extract -
"Under the 1908 Allotments and Small Holdings Act councils have a duty to provide land if six people or more request an allotment. Should none be available the authorities are required to force private landowners to free up space.

But Donna McDaid of NSALG said there is no time limit on how long councils can claim they are actively "looking for land" and some say they have searching for up to eight years.

She said this preventing campaigners from using the law to force councils to provide allotments because officials claim they are still looking for an appropriate site.

If people are asking for allotments then councils have to look for land, but a lot are just saying they are looking and we can do nothing about it because there is no time frame," she said. "I think they are probably exploiting a legal loophole."

In the face of this dilemma it seems that the council wish to reduce, or even abolish, the waiting list by making allotments unaffordable for most people.

Re: Allotments
 

Think its a good place fer a venue meself gynn,theres loads of allotments up that way, so handy fer many to attend.

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It is just a location not an example of the allotment holders.

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Okay, point taken. Just as long as the allotment holders who attend would all struggle if the allotment rents rise.

And aren't the sort of people who could easily afford it.

Rather a high and mighty rule that!

How are you going to impose it?

Means test everyone at the door?

Demand that everyone entering must supply a recent bank statement?

Ever heard of the term divide and conquer? You're putting a wedge between all allotment holders before the meeting has taken place, may I suggest that you hold the meeting and democratically discuss the problem with all of them?

Re: Allotments
 

Well you've come out with some pearlers gynn but this does take the biscuit, this meeting is being organised by Bash allotments association, where do you suggest they hold the meeting, I might add that because it says Con Club over the door doesn't mean its frequented by wealthy Toffs (as Mancie puts it) but you'll find most are ordinary working people.

Re: Allotments
 

Its a simple point. The Council has got no money. It has to take some very difficult decisions, and one decision they are making is to make the allotments self financing. If that is going to cause hardship to some people, then it is right that they fight it.

If the loudest noises are being made by people who CAN afford the rent increase, then they should realise the reality of the situation.

Its not divide and rule. Its asking people to put their hands on their hearts and be realistic in the current financial climate.

Don't talk wet, the first thing surely is to get all interested parties (of whatever financial means), together to decide what can be done, whom is going to decide which individuals are needy? Obviously not you, so until they have had their meeting you can't go spouting off about which people should attend the meeting.

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And how do you know its the people making the most noise who can afford to pay, because they organise a meeting in a con club, your not related to Mancie are, he talks twaddle like that.

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The council has got money, I suggest you look at the financial statement freely available, showing what wastages they have made, like i already mentioned £500+ on a tap repair!! The council says they haven't put the rents up in 10 years, who's fault is that, not the allotment holders, and how can the council justify a 400% rent increase, im pretty sure if your gas or elec was going up by such a massive amount, you'd be kicking up a fuss, or would you take it lying down??

Re: Allotments
 

He'd probably take it up the ass? cos hes talking a load of crap.:D

Re: Allotments
 

From when do these allotments date? Are they something that came along after '67? I know that there were four behind my house on Rishton Rd. Basil Brierly had one (he used it for storing junk; and he kept a bunch of pigs and chickens there; so he might have owned the place). Tommy Pilkington had one; he grew veggies, had a small greenhouse, and ferrets. Tom Noble and my granddad had the others. Would these be something similar to the ones you are talking about? Can't for the life of me remember how long these guys had had the allotments, or how much rent they paid:confused:

By the way, all those allotments were immaculate and well tended ... my chore was to take care of the manure ... a sort of metaphor for what my life would become;):D Well, apart from Basil's ... but anyone who knew the guy, or had a pint with him in the Village or the Bottom Club would understand why.:D

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No they have been there much longer than that.

Nothing like playing devil's advocate to stimulate a rigorous debate. Only on Accy web could a comment about allotments provoke challenges about my sanity and sexuality! :rolleyes:

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Ya we're good at that on here, we weight things up very quickly and aren't usually that far off the mark:rolleyes:;)

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Careful or I'll set my boyfriend's pet goldfish on you, jaysay!

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I keep hearing these big numbers of 400% and 700% but no one has yet posted anywhere I have seen how much they are paying per rod now and how much it will be after the proposed increase so we can compare with allotments in other authorities.

I posted on the facebook group how a local authority lost in court with massive increases. Here is a link to the case report

http://bucksburnallotments.co.uk/Doc...%20Council.pdf

Re: Allotments
 

'...annual rent is going up from £34.45 in 2012 to £90 in 2013.

It will then rise to £130 in 2014, £170 in 2015 and £200 in 2016.'

Baxenden allotments row as rent is set to soar (From Blackburn Citizen)

Re: Allotments
 

It still does not say what size plot.

Similar cases have been tried in court and the Council has lost. I thing HBC legal need to read the document I linked to of the court case that has been used as precedent for other cases

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Whats it called Jaws:D

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Thanks Neil - the voice of reason as usual !!

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I've been on HBC website earlier to look at £500+ spend. It's been updated today thanks to Cllr Collingridge bollocking officers - 2 months out of date & contradicting itself.
Latest allotment related spend -
Allotment Regen, Miscellaneous - Supervisors Oct 11 - Bootstrap enterprises - £4378.
Allotment Regen, Miscellaneous - 2 Supervisors Sept 11 - Bootstrap enterprises - £4378.
So now HBC allotment holders, you're paying bootstraps wages (no offence to bootstraps), due to some change in funding rules for bootstraps.
Yet another explanation why rents have to go up.

Re: Allotments
 

Bootstrap get funding from the government, so why are they getting funding from my council tax - aka HBC???

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This is who they are, so why are Hyndburn including them in the Allotment funding. They operate out of Melbourne House.
www.bootstrap.org.uk/who.cfm

Re: Allotments
 

I have never heard of 'Bootstraps' before so have explored their website.

Welcome to Bootstrap
It may just be me having a foggy day but after reading several of their webpages I do not claim to have learnt much about them.

I do tend to switch off when I see phrases such as
...'walk the extra mile'
...'people empowerment':rolleyes:

The only connection to allotments I saw (on their website) was their 'work' at Meadoway
"Meadoway Allotment is a community based allotment. The Day Service works together with Hyndburn Council and Prospects to maintain the allotment facilities. The site offers a variety of horticultural based sessions. In recent years team members have produced a number of different vegetables, plants and shrubs that are taken home."

Can someone please explain how they have earned £4,378?

Re: Allotments
 

They havent earned it, that figure is what Hyndburn are claiming as their costs.
Retlaw.

Re: Allotments
 

Those 'costs' must include wages because -

"Bootstrap employs more than a hundred people as well as a team of consultants available for project development work. We employ specialists across a range of disciplines including employment, enterprise, skills, training, disability, social care and skills for life"

'specialists' and 'consultants' don't come cheap.They are shown as a registered charity - so allotment rents are increased for a charitable donation to someone trained to grow veg.

Is this a little surreal:confused:

Re: Allotments
 

this beef should be about HBC. Bootstraps are caught in the cross fire in some respects. I dont know full details as to why they're suddenly paying bootstraps wages bill (as it appears on line) but be assured i will be asking for enth detail as i have already. I am of the opinion that this mess, rises, paying for sheds, compost, skips, portakabin, picnic tables, etc; grand plans which dont actually exist; are the work of HBC officer/s. No one, cllrs included, who i've said this to have attempted to deny or defend my opinion - to me speaks volumes

Re: Allotments
 

I live adjacent to Heys allotments.
I have seen a lorry load of compost dumped on the car park.

I recall a notice staked next to it to the effect that it was supplied by Parks and Gardens dept - presumably what they have produced and surplus to their needs.

They can't include this as a 'cost' in order to justify rent rises.

Re: Allotments
 

hi margaret. Dont know about that compost or parks involvement. They do make some compost from proper composting methods so could've donated some. The spend list which i've put into a spreadsheet (cant load as on a mobile) reads as -
Allotment regen, contractor other, compost for keys (typo?), bootstrap enterprises, 15/03/11, £1225.39.
That's some amount of compost !!
If you go on hbc web site, enter the word spend into search, 1st listing brought up is £500 spend. Interesting reading !

Re: Allotments
 

You would have thought that those highly paid Bootstrap advisors/consultants :rolleyes: would be instructing veg growers on how to make their own, which is what allotment holders do.

Dumping it on them when they haven't asked for it, then charging them for it, is rather dubious practice.

I have lived here nine years - seen one such compost load.

(Maybe there has been another that I missed seeing - I used to go on coach trips and could have missed one.)

Re: Allotments
 

I have looked at "Allotment Regeneration Programme" on the council website here -

Allotment Regeneration Programme - Progress to Date

and can only comment on the work done at Heys
" Waiting list time down to 27 months
Completion of 'big plot' that created 36 allotment plots and a number of raised beds suitable for disabled users
Increase in site plots
Drainage improvements
Upgrade of ginnels and track improvements"

Throughout the last two summers a coach daily delivered a motley crew of 'youths' (some wearing ankle tags) to the Heys site. Their numbers varied between half a dozen and 20.

I was told that they were subdividing some of the large plots at the far reaches of the site into smaller plots. They arrived about 9.30 and left about 3pm -hardly work experience jobs - but by the appearance of them it seemed more like 'compulsory community service'.

I have not ventured that far into the site to view their handiwork but my neighbour advises me that a car park area has been provided adjacent to these constructed plots, which has meant that the car park adjacent to the flats where I live gets used much less now.

I confess to spending a large amount of my time looking out of my window, I have never seen tarmac equipment go up the allotment tracks. I have seen the occasional lorry load of gravel go up there are return empty. The tracks are still hazardous to vehicles. Only last summer a car was towed away from my front door having damaged something vital on its underside(a lot of either petrol or oil leaked onto the road) when coming down the track.

Track maintenance cannot have amounted to much more than filling some of the worst holes with gravel.

Re: Allotments
 

You are making assumptions. How do you know they have not asked for it or have been charged for it?

Re: Allotments
 

I did that for all 2011 and picked out the allotment spends. They total £102,590.29. I am sure it will be more than that if you add all the under £500 spends we don't know about. I have posted them all so as not to be biased against any particular site or contractor.

I would like to point out that the payments appear to be split into 2 category's, Regeneration and General. I am interested to know if the regeneration has been funded by projects using some/all external funding. I was aware of some allotment projects that were seeking funding a while ago.

Sorry it's hard to read, I have attached it as a pdf thats easier to read.


ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER FLOODING TO ALLOTMENTS B000013591/46334 N G DRIVEWAYS & DRAINAGE 17/03/2011 £3510.23
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER FELL TREES AT PEEL PARK ALLOTM B000013632/48203 MR J A WALSH 17/03/2011 £1080
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER SOIL TESTING AT WOODNOOK ALLOT B000013620/49504 L K CONSULT LIMITED 24/03/2011 £1250
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER 3 x 6' x 4' sheds B000013631/32619 TRAVIS PERKINS TRADING CO LTD 29/03/2011 £586.56
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER REPAIRS TO ALLOTMENTS B000013628/8833 BOOTSTRAP 31/03/2011 £1069.95
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER HEYS - 2 X PICNIC TABLES B000013684/20273 PROSPERITY RECYCLING LTD 14/04/2011 £823
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER MATERIALS FOR PEEL PARK ALLOTM B000013685/43728 BOOTSTRAP ENTERPRISES 19/04/2011 £860.56
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER WORK ON MEADOWAY DRAINAGE B000013695/43728 BOOTSTRAP ENTERPRISES 19/04/2011 £1409
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER WOODNOOK MOUND MOVE B000013699/42355 O'CALLAGHAN LTD 19/04/2011 £600
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER Norden - Portable Cabin B000013747/49552 NETWORK CABIN SALES 19/04/2011 £1135
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER SOUTH ACCESS PATH MEADOWAY B000013699/42355 O'CALLAGHAN LTD 21/04/2011 £8555
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER VARIOUS ASBESTOS REMOVALS B000013744/42423 CASTLE MOUNT CONTRACTS LTD 21/04/2011 £999
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS KNOTWOOD ERADICATION- PEEL PAR B000013695/36805 THURLOW COUNTRYSIDE MANAGEMENT LTD 21/04/2011 £3420
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER Heys - Plot 18 materials B000013747/1360 EMPRESS FENCING 28/04/2011 £539.55
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS LAND DRAIN - FLOODING AT WOODN B000013798/2094 J & R MORAN 24/05/2011 £1854
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS FLOODING- HUNCOAT ALLOTMENTS B000013839/28458 MARCHBRIDGE BUILDERS LTD 24/05/2011 £5143.27
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS WORK AT VARIOUS ALLOTMENTS B000013865/43728 BOOTSTRAP ENTERPRISES 21/06/2011 1846
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS KNOTWEED ERADICATION B000013924/36805 THURLOW COUNTRYSIDE MANAGEMENT LTD 30/06/2011 570
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS INFORMATION BOARDS - HEYS B000013924/24708 SIGN IT 07/07/2011 £1300
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS SKIP HIRE- PEEL PARK B000014004/1377 ENVIRO SKIPS LTD 26/07/2011 £2410
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS WHITEASH - PLOT SUB DIVISION B000014006/8833 BOOTSTRAP 26/07/2011 £569.2
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL WATER CHARGES 6.5.11 TO 1.8.11 - LEY B000014064/8325 UNITED UTILITIES WATER 18/08/2011 £604.94
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL WATER CHARGES 23.3.11 TO 10.8.11 - NORDEN B000014129/8325 UNITED UTILITIES WATER 15/09/2011 £1854.11
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION MISCELLANEOUS BREAKDOWN MANHOLE B000014150/46334 N G DRIVEWAYS & DRAINAGE 29/09/2011 £628.55
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS NEW GATES AT MILNSHAW B000014152/20 A BYRNE FENCING 29/09/2011 £836
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL GENERAL REPAIR & MAINT BLDGS 3RD STAGE KNOTWEED SEP 11 B000014155/51355 THURLOW COUNTRYSIDE MANAGEMENT LTD 06/10/2011 £570
ALLOTMENTS-GENERAL WATER CHARGES 17.9.11 TO 10.11.11 - NORDEN A B000014285/8325 UNITED UTILITIES WATER 17/11/2011 £548.51
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION MISCELLANEOUS SUPERVISORS- OCT 11 B000014286/43728 BOOTSTRAP ENTERPRISES 06/12/2011 £4378
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION MISCELLANEOUS 2 SUPERVISORS- SEPT 11 B000014286/43728 BOOTSTRAP ENTERPRISES 06/12/2011 £4378
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION MISCELLANEOUS MANHOLE WORKS- PEEL PARK B000014332/46334 N G DRIVEWAYS & DRAINAGE 06/12/2011 £1720.29
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION MISCELLANEOUS CAR PARKING AREAS AT WOODNOOK B000014315/2094 J & R MORAN 08/12/2011 £7020
ALLOTMENTS REGENERATION CONTRACTOR OTHER PEEL PARK ALLOTMENTS B000014365/46334 N G DRIVEWAYS & DRAINAGE 20/12/2011 £2776.6


Total For 2011 £102590.29

Re: Allotments
 

Interesting read Neil -that's a lot of money, you could buy plenty of veg with that amount. Hope they are all producing plenty! How much money comes in off the rents received?

Re: Allotments
 

The allotment holder I spoke to at the time hadn't asked for it.

The 'charge' is happening now by way of rent increases (which include compost as justification).

Re: Allotments
 

Where does it state that the Council will supply compost as part of the rent charge?

Re: Allotments
 

LEY ALLOTMENTS, BAXENDEN

Remember there is a meeting TONIGHT (Tues 24th Jan) regarding the ridiculous increase in rents. It's at Bash Conservative Club, Manchester Road (right hand side going up, just past St John's Church). Be there just before 8.00pm if possible.

Re: Allotments
 

A lot less than that but is that the issue?

How much do other recreational facilities in the Borough cost?

Does Hyndburn Sports Centre make enough money to fund itself or are Hyndburn Borough Council still giving money to the Leisure Trust?

Are the rent increase in line with increases for other leisure activities in Hyndburn? - That is why the court case I linked the case notes to was lost by the council and won by the allotment holders.

Re: Allotments
 

Twas an innocently asked question Neil - nothing was meant to be inferred.

Gardening is great excercise and gives people a lot of satisfaction as well as producing something useful/beautiful. It's good to get out-of-doors and I imagine that there will be quite a good social life for those who use them. I know that there has also been quite an increase in demand for allotments all over the UK, from things seen on TV, and apparently a lot of people are now also keeping bees on them too which is a very good thing.

Presumably most of the expenditure for regeneration is a one-off on improvements which will last for many years. Rent money coming in must cover a part of regular maintenance, but I can't understand why most of the work is done by outside contractors and not council parks staff -that would surely be cheaper.

Re: Allotments
 

I know it was and I was being careful answering, I am involved with local community groups and I don't want people thinking I am commenting anything but my own person views. I do know the figures for last years expenditure and what was taken in rents but it is HBC's place to quote them not mine. Hopefully it will be mentioned at tonights meeting. I wanted to attend but its my son's confirmation at the same time so I wont make it. I don't like second hand information from biased parties.

That is part of the problem. A few years ago when people did not want allotments they were rented out at very low prices just so they were taken. Some tenants had more than one allotment because they were so cheap. Now there is a massive waiting list, about a year ago it was well over 100 for the allotments at Heys in Ossy alone. The Council have a legal responsibility to make allotments available for those who want them under an act of law. unfortunately there is no time limit placed on the local authority finding new allotments and this is the game Hyndburn are playing.

Looking at the tenancy agreement I have seen keeping bees on an allotment is not permitted.

The Parks and Open Spaces Dept do not have the staff to do this work. They don't have enough staff or funding to look after our parks and green spaces to a reasonable standard either but that is another issue.

Re: Allotments
 

Just as a comparison, how much are the gypsy's charged in rents at the sites that have been provided for them.
If allotment rents do go up, to the amount wanted by the robbers at the clown hall, then it would be far cheaper buying veg at any supermarket, after you've bought all the seeds, tools & all the other stuff to work your allotment, your own veg must cost a packet..
Retlaw

Re: Allotments
 

I have no idea what they are charged sorry. That is not really the issue though, increasing the rents by the amount suggested has been proven in court to be wrong. The legal aspect aside, Hyndburn need to look at what other local Councils are charging and then see if they can justify those increases.

Is that all allotments are about though, saving money compared to buying veg?

Re: Allotments
 

How very true, but to some folk it isn't about cheap veg', it's their enjoyment.

Perhaps the question needs to be asked, how come rents for allotments were allowed to drag behind for so long until the present administration is left with no choice but to bring it in line with other expenses that also need paying for?

(perhaps the former leader had a secret garden?).

Re: Allotments
 

I dont think it was not just one administration in power for the last 10 years. I think it has more to do with people not wanting them until recently so they kept the rent low to encourage people to use them. That is a bit of a guess though.

Re: Allotments
 

No not at all, I have my own allotment, I like growing onions & tomato's, but at the end of the day, they've cost more than shop bought ones. I'm just adding a point about the increased cost of growing food on a council owned allotment.

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Bootstrap are sub-contracted by A4E & Ingeus to deliver the work programme. This is where people are sent after claiming JSA & ESA for x amount of time, this idea was set up the government, they work with the claimants for 2 yrs. They rcv so much funding per person & of course huge bonuses for getting people into employment. They get paid good wages to of course.

Re: Allotments
 

Any information from the meeting, I was in Church all evening watching my son's confirmation so could not make the meeting?