Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Just watched the coverage and the race, watched as Synchronised ran away and made everyone laugh, and then was gobsmacked to learn it had been destroyed after falling(early on) during the race. I have always bet on the National, I won't be next year.

2 horses died last year, as I type "Synchronised" and "Accordingtopete" have been destroyed and " Weird Al" and "Killyglen" are still being treated on the course. This is on a "safer and improved course".

I know the horses look like they are enjoying it but it's obviously not getting any safer or better, both those horses seemed in fine spirits before the race, maybe AP McCoy should have listened to "Synchronised" a little harder, it ran off and then looked very suspiciously at the first fence when he walked it down there.:eek:

( and I'm not a horse fan, I don't like them, having been bitten and trampled in the past, but this isn't right)

What does everyone else think? I had bet the grand total of £9 this year so it's not sour grapes!

Yeah, I bet on that horse, most disappointed, it should have been shot before I parted with my money!

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

the grand national wasnt wrong but my choice of horse was

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Wouldn't expect anything more from you really, I start a sensible thread that most people would have an opinion on , it's likely that there will be serious questions asked about the course and the fitness/ mental attitude of Synchronised.
Can you not , just for once, make some sensible comment and stop ruining a potentially interesting thread with your banal comments?

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Pick the (horse) meat out of this one:

Race Horse Death Watch

It's not just Aintree or the National, it happens all the time all over the country, just we don't usually get to hear about it. Sadly but inevitably if a horse is badly injured in a fall treatment and recovery are often impossible and at least the horse is humanely disposed of swiftly.

I'm afraid it's part of the sport, and short of banning a major sporting industry and leisure pursuit it will continue, unpleasant as it may be.

After all we haven't got round to banning boxing yet and that can have equally serious consequences, but for humans.

However much you may dislike it, fox hunting, the one activity that has been banned, at least had the serious and necessary purpose of reducing the fox population among all the other criticisms that have been levelled at it. It did this at least as effectively as any methods that have had to be used since the ban.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I don't watch the National......I don't bet on it.
I don't think it will change much Lindsay until more people give it a wide berth.
It is all about making money....nothing much about the welfare of horses......and I do not believe those who say the horses enjoy it.

No I can't these horses live better than you or I,

Why suddenly do you find a lost cause such as this?

You posted I replied, like it or lump it.

Obviously rather than let your head rule your heart you will lump it.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Sorry Lindsay, I know you're upset but I do think you need to lighten up a bit.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

considering the french and spanish put them on burgers i think jumping a few fences is getting off pretty lightly and if they make retirement they continue to be very well looked after.

i couldnt give a hoot if it was banned tomorrow but neither do i think human rights should be awarded to animals like some idiots insist upon although only for the cute animals it seems.

never hear anyone crying over a slug getting salted ;)

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I think the Grand National is cruel I don't really like horses but it's sad to see them having to be killed when they fall.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Yep I agree with that.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Why do horses carry on jumping the fences when they unseated the rider?:confused: Is it because they don't like jumping? Was a footballer in Italy died from heart attack today, seems animals are more important.:rolleyes:

Not all of them fall, not all of those that do fall are killed, it is a shame that it does happen but it is also a shame that horses like these are running whilst people starve in the world, whoa, whoa, and thrice whoa, I can't correct the world,

Can you?

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I have to say I agree with you, there are far more injustices in the world.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Forty runners, fifteen finishers, ten fallers, two died.

It's not always racing that leads to unhappy outcomes: I copied this from a comment in the Mirror just now.

It is impossible to treat a broken leg. if a human breaks a leg they can cast it and you don't weight bear on it...if a horse does it then it is impossible to not weight bear on the leg, therefore the break becomes displaced through the weight of the horse. I lost my horse of a lifetime (not a racehorse) when she broke a leg in the field (just slipped over). She was 7 months in foal at the time and I would have done ANYTHING to save her and the foal, but it was impossible to treat and, sadly, I had to have her PTS...obviously the unborn foal died too.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Thats what i find a bit ironic!! Not many start threads about these things, Yet when a couple of horses sadly die ........well.:rolleyes:

You used to be a regular and fun poster, what's happened? Now you only post when you find something wrong, that in itself I've no problem with except...

Is life getting you down? If so, welcome to the world the rest of us live in.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Unfortunatley Linz, its not the first or last time horses are going to die either at the Grand National or other events, and it wont matter whether you bet next year or not, it will still go ahead. Best thing you can do is like you said not bet on it and also not watch it next year.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

i think it would liven up the olympics if we also strated shooting the runners that fell during the hurdles :D

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I know, but after today, ( and I reckon questions will be asked) it seems wrong, my own opinion, and I've always had a bet in the past. To me , that horse did not want to run, it was obvious and now it's gone, very sad.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

You Sir , are one of reasons I don't bother with the site anymore , and thank you for your concern, I am fit , well, and mentally sound. (unlike you)

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Before the race, all the fuss that was caused. One of those horses actually went up to the fence and looked at it and commentator said something like " looks like it don't want anything to do with that " to find out it had died was quite spooky

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I wouldn't say it's a matter of right or wrong, more a case of what is acceptable in a "modern society". The deaths of the Horses today where preventable & needless, had these owners truly considered the welfare of their animals as a priority & not their personal gratification & stroking of their egos, those Horses would've been happily ensconced in their stables this evening after perhaps a run out on a flat somewhere.

The National will always attract people with a certain mentality & attitude, chancers & ne'er do wells it appears whose disregard for their "asset" is amply shown by their willingness to risk the injury & as was the case today, death of a living entity.

You or I would not go & buy a brand spanking new car then hurtle it headlong into a brick wall ! Such recklessness would lead to a fairly certain outcome & as such we'd be wary of making such a mindless decision. Alas these owners not only bought the car they also challenged the wall.

And we're the intelligent life forms in this World ? I sometimes do wonder.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

i put my money on my horses and one of them died .. but this happens every year that they complain about the national .. that the course is too tough ... but the fences are supposed to replicate what they would come across when out hunting ... thats why its called a national hunt race. Could it be theres more publicity about the deaths because one of them was the Gold Cup winner?

one question for lindsay though .. you said you're not having a bet on the race next year because of the 2 horses that died .. but yet 2 horses died last year and you had a bet on the race this year ...

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Any 'sport' with a high death rate is barbaric.
It seems like we haven't evolved from the days of the Roman empire, when death spectacles were provided to keep the primitive masses 'diverted' and amused.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I was only thinking the same thing yesterday.........Romans were supposed to be a civilised society yet they sanctioned gladiators to kill one another in the name of sport.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Well yesterdays Grand National was the first I've watched for years and in my opinion one of the best ever, marred by the two horses being put down. All sports were physical ability is to the fore, be it human or animals, is dangerous, even football as we saw the other week and again in Italy yesterday. Horses have been killed at the grand national since the very first race, and like cashy said if the horses didn't like it they wouldn't carry on jumping fences after unseating their rider. But whats the answer, ban everything that's a tad dangerous, tiddly winks just in case some one gets hit in the eye with a counter. You've also got to remember that Jockeys are in a lot of danger too, but just where do you draw a line, we are already weighed down in nearly every aspect of life with Health and Safety rules and regs, soon there will be nothing left

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Sorry lads but I've got to disagree with your views here, the reason some of the horses continued to jump was because they are herd animals, their natural reaction is to run alongside others of their kind, banded together gives a sense of support & security. Flight or fight, it's a self preservation instinct, the vast herds of Mustang in the States or the Brumbies of Australia certainly don't jump obstacles if they can be avoided.

Not all of the horses who were riderless jumped, some went round the outside of the hurdles taking the path of least resistance, others physically baulked at the obstacles obviously the more timid or sensible of the herd chose that option. In retrospect the reaction by Synchronised upon seeing the fence when he ran free proves this point emphatically ! He did not want to jump.

Furthermore, theses animals had no choice in taking part in the event, it was their owners who decided they should run. And as to the sporting personalities you raise as counter argument, they chose their sport for its rewards & acclaim, they made a conscious choice to take that risk, the horse didn't have the luxury of that option. It has ever been so with us Humans in regard to the lesser species, we misuse their trust & faith in us for our benefit & oft times greed.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

That link Susie put on shows 41 dead horses this year so far.
This can't be compared with 2 dead footballers - as least they chose to play.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Just a note about the footballer, it was a heart attack, his death therefore cannot be linked to the game, it could just as easily of happened to anyone of us either sitting at home or walking down the street.

Ayrton Senna, would have been a far better example of a death through calculated risk, personal choice made by the individual which sadly ended his life in 1994 at Imola Italy. But in the end it was his choice, aware of the risks involved but also the rewards he made his choice.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Another interesting read

Equine Science and Welfare: Injuries and Fatalities

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

O.K. fair enough, i don't back horses, But lets Ban everything thats a bit dodgy n live like cabbages.:rolleyes:

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Cashy, I haven't said anything should be banned. Wherever there is a lucrative opening for money to be made, irrespective of how dangerous or risky an endeavour may be there will always be people willing to take that risk.

My objection if it is seen as such, is with the inclusion of an innocent third party (Human or Animal) unable to choose their own course & have it enforced on them. This particular bone of contention goes beyond the boundaries of purely animals in sport.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I agree with your post totally Less should live up to his moniker and post Less! Like Cashman and Jaysay (group name the 3 Stooges) all are guilty of the same crime!

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

So right! I don't gamble and I'm not into horse racing either. Don't horses keep jumping because they are a herd animal and if they are in a group running and jumping they will carry on even when the rider has fallen off. Also some animal expert said that horses only run like that when they are afraid so if that is true, then at every horse race the beasts are running because they are afraid...

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

And you are not?:rolleyes: Are yeh a Dingle or what? I'm beginning to strongly suspect yeh are.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Cashy, treat is as a compliment...didn't loads of folk go to the flicks and laugh long and hard at the antics of these guys?....And didn't these guys laugh all the way to the bank with lolly they earned from giving the working folk some light relief?

There you go, all this venom on your behalf!
Look at me, usually I'm giving grief to folk that want to call AccyWeb, so rather than help, you would rather say I'm a problem, well kissy, kissy, I seem to spend most of my time just explaining to folk like you, the site is fine, those of us that give up on it make it harder for those that stay, all seem to come back, with their own moan, how can they do that?
Well, because the ones they call, are keeping it open.

Well, rather than stop posting tell me and others where we are going wrong, rather than every time you post it's a negative, look at your posts, then consider...
I'm on every day, trying to keep the site open for you to call me.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

Come on Cashy even dingles don't deserve being tagged with that plank ;)

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I just wonder- if there weren't so many horses starting off, forty, they wouldn't get in each others way so much. In that crowd some of them won't even see the fences before they come to them. How can they jump properly if they can't see the fence? Also they and the jockeys have no room to manoeuvre or react if one in front of them has a problem.
After all the new fences aren't that high and if horses died every time there was a foxhunt we'd surely hear about it. But on a foxhunt they'll be spread out.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

See this thread has degraded into personal insults on behalf of the 3 regulars who seem to frequent nearly every thread - Less, Jaysay and Cashman. The thread topic gets side-tracked and personal insults and attacks are used.

Grand National should reduce the size of the fences so that horses don't get killed! :alright:

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

It is because the National is hyped into such a bit event and the deaths of the horses had a lot of tv coverage.

Its like the footballer who had a hear attack on the field and everyone was wishing him well. 124,000 people have heart attacks every year but that one had a lot of tv coverage so most people knew about that one heart attack.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

This is a good point, its like when somebody gets stabbed and it makes the news, you will see stabbings in the news for about a week, then it goes, but people are still being stabbed daily.

I don't like the fact animals have to be killed, but I agree there are lots worse things happening daily.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

hi all. im not normally on here but thought id join purely to give my point of view as i work for a very sucessfull trainer. i was also present on sat as we had horses there. what happened to the boys was just awful. nobody likes seeing a horse injured fatally and those of us who work with and look after them are always devastated when something horrible happens. believe me there is nothing worse than returning baxk to the yard without the boy or girl you look after on a daily basis. alot has been made about synchronised ''throwing'' tony and ''bolting'' off. first of all he did not throw him, he simply shyed, moved a quick step to the side and dropped his shoulder. this happens to riders all over on a daily basis. a horse shying is the same as something making you jump. its an involuntary movement. sync than decided to go for a little outing. he didnt bolt off, bolting is galloping flat out normally in a panic. he simply went for a canter. he didnt appear to be distressed. he was on his toes and having a look round on his way back up, most ,likely wondering where his friends had dissappeard too! racehorse are always ridden out in strings together. they dont like being alone. so when he was backing off the fence when tony was trying to show it to him it was a simple case of him wanting to get back to the group. my personal opinion is that he shouldnt have been entered. he had won the gold cup a month earlier. i believe he should have been left until next season. i find it very upsetting that some people believe all aspects of racing are bad. i cant make excuses for what happened on sat but i can assure you they love what they do, they are not in anyway abused, they want for nothing and they recieve top quality care from everyone involved from us lads and lasses right throught to massage people and vets. i dont believe lowering the fences would be a good idea. bechers has been lowered and i actually believe it has caused more problems as now ather than spreading out across the whole fence evryone was trying to jump it on the inside which im sure contributed to pete being brought down by another horse. my personal opinion is the main thing that needs changing is the size of the field. ive looked i to satistics and even a 5 horse reduction would appear to make a much safer race. i hope i have cleared up a few things regarding the start of the race for you and i hope tyou will also believe me when i say everyone involved with these horses loves them very much, right from the rich owners to us lads and lasses

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

How many heart attacks occur during football matches - not many at all. Every year horses die at the Grand National. Every weekend people don't collapse while playing professional league football from heartattacks.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I'm not really a race fan but thanks for that, sure explains a lot of misconceptions

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

I felt that this year there was something obviously wrong with " Synchronised", it wasn't happy, it didn't want to race, dunno but it bothered me this year.

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

And I've been following the reactions of those involved, maybe if the field was reduced to say 25 and more adjustments to the fences we could all enjoy it for what it is and not worry about the outcome. ( Just to add that Sunnyhillboy who came second has spent the week in horse hospital after having surgery to repair tendon damage caused in the race...)

Re: Grand National, is it wrong?
 

On the adjustment to fences thing...

Listened to Mick Fitzgerald the other day, he said one of the problems has been caused by tinkering with fences, he singled out Beechers.

He said before the alterations, the jockeys spread out, because the course was sloped and the wider you took the jump the less the drop was, but now it was even all the way across which caused jockeys to bunch up to take the shortest route