Andrew Mitchell
 

What do we all think of Andrew Mitchell's outburst at the policeman who stopped him taking his bicycle through the main gates at the end of Downing Street?


If he DID say those words, although he deserves condemnation, it is the sort of thing that can be resolved with a fulsome apology, and an appeal that he was talking in the heat of the moment, and he didn't really mean it.

Mr Mitchell acually denies saying those words, and as a senior Government figure, his integrity must be beyond question.

However, I understand that the officer in question has confirmed that those were his EXACT words. And I think I trust the words of a police officer over those of a party politician.

So his position is untenable. Not because of the words he used in the heat of the moment, but because of his subsequent lying to try and save his skin.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

If he did say those words, why wasn't he arrested for a public order offence? If any of us had said it, we'd be hauled down the clink sharpish.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Its only the truth, what these people think of the ordinary working man.:( n Camerons accepted his apology whats new.?:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I think he's a complete idiot of his class and I would expect nothing better. He seems to think he's beyond the law and his immature attitude reflects that of the government in power at the moment in my opinion.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Because he's in a privileged position. How many of us get to ride our bicycles through the main gates of Downing Street?

He's used the words, then allegedly lied by denying that he said them.

That's double the crime!

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Oh it is, but Jaysay will be on to defend him tomoz.:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Apparently the Daily Mail tomorrow does a demolition job on Andrew Mitchell. Three pages condemning him.

So even Tories supporting him are few and far between.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Maybe, but we all have our own beliefs whether they are right or wrong to the rest of us - but surely not even Mr. Cameron or his sidekick Mr. Clegg could defend this man's actions?

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Annie i think you will find it all boils down to 13 years of labour, which i'm sure Jaysay will point out later today. :D:D:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

bullying is his thing as a daily telegraph reporter is reporting;) these tories are a bunch of loonies cavorting with the christian right in america should tell us this:eek:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I have just watched a video on the Guardian website showing Cameron crawling in penitence :D
It would set my teeth if I had them in.

PS (excuse/skip the ad)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/v...-cameron-video

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Yeh but only cos of damage to the party, Aint cos they think hes wrong.:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I never have nor never will defend the indefensible, pity people with other political ideals won't do the same:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Gotta ask who's Andrew Mitchell?

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Think his username is Mancie.:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

True but don't see yeh slagging him fer it.:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Ya well they're both prats:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

See the above post:lol::lol:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Pleb.........I have been called much worse than that by Police Officers in my younger days
and would not be afforded the luxury of running to Mum.
I read today of a Labour Whip swinging on the nuts of Jack Straw to bring him in line with the policy of the day.(Daily Mail).
This story is absolute tosh and a waste of police and parliamentary time.
I have every respect for the Police but none for the point scoring Police Federation.
The policeman is not hurt like that poor soul who was belted with a stick.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Its only the truth, what these people think of the ordinary working man.
Got it in one Cashy. A return to Victorian style sneering upon of the "plebs" by our lords and masters seems to be the order of the day.:mad:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

As usual completely missing the point about what these scumbags think of us, we all know what the score was in our younger days, times have changed even i know that, doubt if yeh will ever grasp that fact.:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Were those the younger days of the workhouse, when 8 year old chimney sweeps knew their place, when the army was called in to quell the 'plebs' of Peterloo?

You're sentiments are correct...Most of us have moved on....unfortunately morons like Mitchell haven't, they still think that they are superior because of an accident of birth!

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I don't think my glasses are as red tinted as yours and never will be. :hothothot

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Nah yeh got yours off Ray Charles.:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Iv'e been called a lot worse!!

adjective
1. common, working-class, lower-class, proletarian, ignoble, lowborn a man who rose to greatness but never forgot his plebeian past
common upper-class, aristocratic, high-class, patrician, highborn
2. uncultivated, mean, low, base, coarse, vulgar, unrefined, non-U (Brit. informal) He had a cockney accent and an alarmingly plebeian manner.
uncultivated polished, refined, cultivated, well-bred
noun

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Because, strange as it might seem, it is not a requirement of law that we be polite to a policeman.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

With reference to number two.........doesn't this outburst qualify him for for the name 'pleb' then......it was certainly uncultured to rant on at the policeman(who was only doing his job) in such a manner.

It would be good if the politicians of this country would do their job with such diligence - maybe we would have some kind of chance of rising out of the mire that they created for us 'plebs'.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Wrong. Using four letter words towards a policeman is a public order offence and I have seen people arrested for it.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Theres a lad in the Mirror this morning from Gorton,who got a 16 week sentence fer a first offence, which was "Swearing At A Policeman" twas during the riots n yeh he looked a lout, but that aint the issue, its the same offence as what NO CHARGE has been brought against Mitchell, if ever there is proof that its us n them then that is it!:(

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Really! You mean you can't swear at coppers over there? Country's going to the dogs;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Nobody appears to be bothered about the swearing It's the descriptive word that's appears to be causing the most problems.One mans word against another.

Or should I have said Pleblem?:hehetable

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

OK pleb may be a four letter word but it's not that sort of four letter word. Very mild in my opinion, even a bit of joke.

I'm sure lots of us might be tempted to use such words if we had had a hard day or were under stress.

I do think this whole thing has been blown up out of proportion and is distracting from the everyday business that should be concentrated upon.

Perhaps if some people stopped slagging off MPs and had a go at their job things might be a bit different.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

The industrial four-letter words were quoted by Gynn in post 1.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

The word he is alleged to have used before pleb is far from mild yet people like you omit to mention that. cos i cannot think for 1 min that yeh aint read or seen the fact.:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

They aren't forced to do the job , they choose to do the job :rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

It's the other four letter words he's alleged to have uttered that (if he has uttered them) should've got him arrested for a public order offence. As for the p-word, I can honestly say it's never passed my lips, but then again, I'm not a toffee-nosed, upper class hooray henry who looks down upon the lower orders as many members of this government do.

As for having a go at Andrew Mitchell's job, let's see, what was his last position? Oh yes, Minister for Overseas Development, where he oversaw a 37% rise in the overseas aid budget (whilst people in this country were suffering from government cuts) and lavished our money on the likes of India (which can afford a space programme), China and Saudi Arabia. Yep, he did a great job there!

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I have to own up that we at AGS called first-formers plebs.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I didn't. I called 'em another four letter word. ;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

To be honest I try and stay away from the news as much as possible so no I was not fully aware of anything else that was said. But there has been so much attention given to the p-word that I couldn't avoid hearing about that.

I'm talking about the job of constituency MP not being a minister or anything like that. Would you want to do it? cos I'm sure I wouldn't. And being a minister etc is more about government policy than personal preference.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I certainly would have done the job when younger if the opportunity had arisen, as i did a thankless voluntary job fer 22 years,(and enjoyed it) i sure as hell would fer that salary.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

So are you saying that if we don't actually harbour the ambition to be an MP, we have no right to criticize them?

We are the people who elect these politicians, we are the people who pay their wages, they work for us, therefore we have every right to criticize them, especially when they behave in a high handed and arrogant fashion as Andrew Mitchell has.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

No I'm not saying we shouldn't criticise, of course not, just that there might be a bit more understanding of what the job involves rather than the slagging off which appears to be the norm. Moderation rather than pointscoring. I might be more interested in politics if that were the case.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

"Pointscoring" is exactly what MPs do. You can hear them at it on TV night after night. It's one of the main reasons why we do criticize them so much on here.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

It isn't how mild the word was, it is the connotation behind the word...the man was infering that the policeman was of lesser importance....and he was denigrating him in this way. Who is to say that the policeman would not have made a better MP than Andrew Mitchell...had he had the chance or the inclination.

I don't think we need to be able to do the job of an MP to criticise Andrew Mitchell - he was being rude because he hadn't got his way...chucked his dummy....but this isn't why people want him to resign...they want him to resign because he isn't man enough to 'fess up' and tell the truth. He wants us to believe the policeman is a liar.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Agree with that, they shouldn't be doing it either. Think it's a reflection on our society today. Everything seems a lot more aggressive.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Thing is, Susie, MPs haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in recent years, have they? Despite what the party zealots say, both parties have contributed to the country's decline, by pursuing short-term political advantage to the detriment of long-term national interests. And they've certainly been quick to dip their snouts in the trough. Was it half of the last parliament who were found to have expense irregularities? Even though reforms have now taken place, they still do alright for themselves - a £60,000+ pa salary, expenses and a very generous pension, at a time when ordinary folks' pensions are being cut.

If being an MP's such a demanding, stressful job, it's funny how there's no shortage of candidates when election rolls around!

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

The full transcript of the police report on the Andrew Mitchell incident is published in this morning's Daily Telegraph.

In full: Police log detailing Andrew Mitchell's 'pleb' rant - Telegraph

It makes interesting reading, because it includes a number of comments that Mr Mitchell denies saying.

So either Mr Mitchell is lying, or the police officer is lying.

The attempt by the Cabinet Secretary and Chief of the Met to draw a line under the incident makes things ten times worse in many ways. It smacks of an establishment cover-up to protect one of their own, thereby strengthening the view that some of these people think they are above the law.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

It is Karma.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Hopefully it's British justice.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

What really brassed me off about this snotty gets attitude, is CAMERON backed him up.:mad: That should tell everyone wi n ounce of common sense,what they think of ordinary people.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

And Cameron stood by him right to the bitter end:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Exactly.:rolleyes: Though no shock yon to me.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Another example of how they don't think the rules apply to them.

George Osborne refuses to sit in standard class despite NOT having First Class ticket | Granada - ITV News

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

On your bike Mitchell. And take the rest of this shambolic government with you.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

...yeah, then we can have equally shambolic government from the party that you so blindly support. :rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Graham Jones linked to the following tweet from 28th May this year showing that Osborne may have a history of this -

'Ticket inspector on my train just got a high five: george osborne tried to sit in 1st class with a std tkt. Inspector said NO'

Wonder how many times he's actually got away with not paying the £160 excess..which incidentally should come from his own pocket, not his Westminster expense account

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Whilst we all know what these snots think of us, its obvious to me NO lessons have been learnt following the Mitchell debacle.:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

no politician has learned anything...after the expenses scandal, there was a story yesterday about Linda Riordan...the MP...nay, the LABOUR MP for Halifax has been renting out an apartment to a fellow MP and getting a nice fat 19K a year by doing so.......the 19K is OUR money.
She has now ended this farcical agreement, but my question is.........Are you going to pay back the money to the public pot?

So Steve, you are right...they are all as bad as each other....you couldn't put a sheet of bronco between them.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I wonder if Graham Jones would've done the same if it had been a Labour politician involved? :rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

No idea, but we can rely on Boris not to follow the party line.

Boris Johnson slams the fare-dodging 'parasites' who cost Londoners £75m - News - London Evening Standard

Any fare dodger must face the full wrath of the law. No ifs or buts.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I wouldn't be too sure of that gynn, Bet he says sod all about a certain attempted train fare dodger.:rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I think you do have an idea, actually, Gynn.

If it had been a Labour politico, Graham Jones would've said NOWT about it, just as he'll say nothing about that greedy, grasping Labour MP from Halifax. :rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Seems quite a few of 'em are at it, including a third of the shadow cabinet. I wonder if Graham Jones will be tweeting about that?

The gravy train: 185 MPs travel first class and 24 claim for club class flights - Telegraph

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

The Sunday Telegraph’s investigation into discovered:

- 113 Labour MPs, 48 Tories and 19 Lib Dems have claimed first class rail tickets over the past year. Two Plaid Cymru and three Scottish National Party members bring the total to 185. Somehow i doubt that very much Wyn.:eek:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I don't know what all the fuss is concerning the train fare. I used to travel on trains when there was 3rd, 2nd and 1st class compartments and when 3rd class was full have had to pay the extra to the inspector for being seated in 2nd class.

As for the Andrew Mitchell affair, it was fortunate for the police that their 442 page record pushed some of their quite serious misdeeds off the front pages for a month. Did his action really warrant a police delegation from WARWICKSHIRE to travel to London to talk to Mitchell or was that to gain favourable police publicity? Having read some of the police log it reminded me of how annoying some people can be when they repeatedly parrot the same officious phrase. Maybe the reason I'm veering on the side of Mitchell is that I've been known to lose my top with acivilian enforcement officer when being handed a parking fine. I noticed someone else on this board also called first formers "plebs" - this was the accepted term at the grammar school I attended in Yorkshire back in the 1950s.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Maybe the reason yer veering to the side of Mitchell is yer a Tory?:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I've already mentioned I've got Scottish and Yorkshire blood - why would I throw money away joining any political club? :D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I never said yeh were in the club Lucy, too much of a gentleman.:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I don't agree with having a class system on trains.

It is financial apartheid.

Comfort at a reasonable level should be available to all users.

The fact that there is a 1st class is an excuse to provide others with a substandard service, on the basis that if you want comfort you have to pay extra for it.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Can't argue wi that at all, But there is a class system n it goes against me craw when rich creeps abuse it.;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

If those rich creeps had to travel with 'plebs' maybe the standard of comfort for all would be improved.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Margaret, those rich creeps would have us plebs ruin at back of the train...they would like us to go back to Donkey transport...that would put us firmly in our place(tugs forelock - his!)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

lol - good one :)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Cameron has plenty of form when it comes to clinging on to his selections for high posts in this Government...the only person he sacked was George Young for saying "we'd never had it so good" last year..... lo and behold he has now made George Young the new chief whip!.. you coudn't make it up..could you? :D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Blair brought Mandelson back twice! ;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Yep they are as bad as each other.. David Laws has been brought back into the cabinet..he's the bloke that claimed 35k for rent in a flat for his secret lover until it was no longer a secret.. Laws is the man that proposed the ending of tax credits saying they were "A means of the low paid to rely on welfare"..I'd say David Laws is a benefit fraud..but Cameron would say he made a mistake in the heat of the moment.:D

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Got it in one, Mancie, owd lad! ;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Ah but should this man get a second chance?...
BBC News - David Laws deserved second chance, David Cameron says
for me he don't... Cameron and Clegg seem to be the higher judges of the law in this land.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

No, but then again, neither should Mandy!

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Oh for the days when you could get a helluva long way on a tupp'ny platform ticket:D

Come to think about it, Accy to Ossy one way was only 1 1/2d;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

David Cameron;
His great-great-grandfather, Alexander Geddes, who had made a fortune in the grain trade in Chicago, and returned to Scotland in the 1880s

Through his paternal grandmother, Enid Agnes Maud Levita, Cameron is a lineal descendant of King William IV by his mistress Dorothea Jordan. This illegitimate line consists of five generations of women starting with Elizabeth Hay, Countess of Erroll, née FitzClarence, William and Jordan's sixth child, through to Cameron's grandmother (thereby making Cameron a 5th cousin of Queen Elizabeth II)

David Cameron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nick Clegg.
Clegg was born in 1967 in Chalfont St Giles in Buckinghamshire. He is the third of four children of Nicholas Peter Clegg, CBE, the chairman of United Trust Bank, and a former trustee of the Daiwa Anglo-Japanese Foundation (where Ken Clarke was an adviser). On his father's side of the family Clegg is related to Kira von Engelhardt, daughter of a Russian baron of German, Polish, and Ukrainian origin, Ignaty Zakrevsky, an attorney general of the Imperial Russian senate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Clegg ... and_family

How did his ancestor make his fortue? - ''Made a fortune in the grain trade in Chicago, and returned to Scotland in the 1880s'' - SLAVERY!!!!!!

Freemasons :rolleyes:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I quoted a police officer in my start to this thread. It got me a warning from the administrators for use of bad language. I took this on the chin because I knew I was only quoting a police source.

Now it seems I was wrong. Allegedly it was a police stitch up. For which I apologise to the forum.

Stupid of me to think we lived in a country where you can trust the word of a police officer.

:mad:

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

In every large organisation there are bound to be those who will abuse their authority.
You need look no further than the Palace of Westminster.
Do those 'honourable' gentlemen tell the truth?

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Andrew Mitchell admitted failing to comply with instructions from the police officer, arguing the toss and then swearing at the officer(and he resigned of his own volition - even though his position was made tenuous by the press)....whether or not he called him a pleb is immaterial.......Andrew Mitchell thought himself to be above the law......all the rest is just a smoke sceen.
Maybe now, the politicians will appreciate what it is like to get a taste of their own medicine(not being completely honest).

And before anyone takes me to task about the integrity of the policve....I agree...they should be above suspicion....but look at the Hillsborough situation.
That was institutional dishonesty on a grand scale.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

What I thought strange was the number of times the police called the TV cameras in to record on film their official statements about the Mitchell affair. Eventually I suspected they were using the incident to move Hillsborough and their deplorable actions at that time off the front pages. Now that we the public have seen via the street camera film that there were no independent witnesses, as per the original official statement, I question whether any of the police hierarchy had satisfied themselves that they had all the evidence before they made public speeches.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

Not stupid gynn naive.;)

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

All this furore, with Andrew Mitchell brings to mind a phrase with 'Pot, Kettle and black in it'.
It just seems a bit ironic now the boot is on the other foot.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

I don't see it that way. Mitchell admitted straight away that he''d cursed. The police on the other hand embellished the happening and even made up evidence.

Re: Andrew Mitchell
 

What I meant was.....the politicians freely lie about things, but howl like girls when the police are alleged to have given them a taste of their own medicine........not that I am saying it is right for the police to fabricate evidence or to tell lies........I don't believe they should...they should be above suspicion, but the debacle that was Hillsborough tells us that this is nothing new.