Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Should computer hacker Gary McKinnon have been extradited to the USA for hacking into the Pentagon Computer systems.

He also stated something like "He would do it again at the highest level!" This is not word for word what he said but the gist of a quote featured on the BBC News!

Also should he now be tried in the UK?

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

My view is simple,he should have been extradited end of.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

This is the quote that was on the news...

"US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels …" Gary McKinnon

He's admitted it and said he'd do it again - yet he's got off with it. Even though he has the genius to do this.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Exactly, this is "NOT" cheating at Snakes @ Ladders,Its a damn site more dangerous than that, His illness is no excuse, in fact it was only diagnosed years after he did it.:rolleyes:

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Yes he should

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

No he should not have been extradited. He has Aspergers and you may think this is no excuse, but those who have Aspergers get very caught up on things(they may not realise the risks of doing what they are doing...they are emotionally detached)....they search and they search.
What should be happening is that the US should be enlisting the services of people like him.....then perhaps their computer systems would be more secure. (you need to know where the holes are in your fences, before you can even think of mending them)
It seems that I am in the minority here, but that is my view and I make no apology for it.
Just a question...if the positions had been reversed, and the person had been a US citizen who had hacked into....oh, let's say Britains Defence systems....do you really think the US would have given up one of their citizens to justice here????? I don't think they would.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Great news that he has not been handed from one set of facists to another ;)

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

He exposed gaping holes in US security. They got rather angry about that, but really they ought to be thankful that he did, because now their systems have been made less hackable.
The crime here was the stupidity of the yanks in having a hackable system.

When you leave your back gate open, and a dog wanders in and poops, do you blame yourself for negligence or do you demand the dog be caged?

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

I used to support a boy with aspergers syndrome, I named him " my little professor" he was so bright. One day at lunch time he was talking so much , a dinner lady told him to be quiet and eat his dinner or go and eat it outside , he corrected her saying she means dine al fresco , he had no idea he was being cheeky and was puzzled as to why he was being chastised .

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

He broke the law and it is for a court to decide what his punishment should be after taking into account all the facts including any medical conditions.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

I blame the owner of the dog, not quite the same thing is it?

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Being mentally ill if aspergers is really a mental illness? Should not stop him going to court - if you asked me to hack into any computer I wouldn't have a clue but it would take some study to do so.

Anyway if someone murders someone and they are mentally ill, they are not let off, just because of that fact. As Neil says he should go to court in this country and a court should take everything into account.

He knew what he was doing because he apparently left this message on one of the computers; I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels … :eek: :cool:

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

The home secretary took into account his medical condition when deciding whether he should be extradited.....he may still stand trial here in this country,as far as I understand, his case is with Keir Starmer, the Director of Public Prosecutions.
So he hasn't got off with anything....yet.

Maybe he has already been punished enough.....the last, what is it? Ten years...with different home secretaries huffing and chuffing about whether to send this chap over the pond......he is never going to retrieve the peace of mind of those ten years.

The US says jump, and we ask 'how high...and for how long'.
I think the right decision about extradition was reached....as I said, if the boot had been on the other foot, would the US have been loading one of their citizens onto a plane for summary justice here? Of course they would.(NOT)

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

I posted this a couple of years ago in another thread about this case and it still holds true..

Aspergers manifests itself in many ways, one of which causes the sufferer to be 'amoral'....wherein he knows right from wrong but his brain cannot recognise the reasoning behind it and his flawed logic therefore dictates he ignores the distinction.

And I vote no to extradition...the crime was committed here

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Aspergers is part of the Autistic spectrum....and Guinness is right when he says it comes in many varieties........those who have Aspergers may not be able to tell right from wrong...they do not interact well socially and prefer lone pursuits.
They are very single minded in their pursuits........computers must have been his 'thing'.....I wouldn't know how to hack into anything...but he must have learned this.

It would have been more of a problem if he had offered to sell whatever he found out, or if he had tried to corrupt the data on the US systems....but he did not(to my knowledge) do this.
The US should be thankful that their deficiencies had been spotted, and could be corrected.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

It would be more of a problem, given the massive publicity this has aroused, if some real evil git,got there hands on this bloke.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

The yanks don't give up their citizens ... and they don't recognize the decisions of the International Court, unless of course those decisions coincide with American interests. They do as they damn well please. I see no reason why Great Britain doesn't do the same. And this involves telling the European Parliament to go do something biologically difficult every time they try to interfere in the interests of Britain.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

As kestrelx says there's no doubt he knew what he was doing and intended to do harm- he said so in several quotes. The comment 'he was only looking for UFO evidence' is rubbish and was just intended to get sympathy for him. Whether he knew he was doing serious wrong is up to medical experts and the courts- but UK courts.
Refusing to extradite him is a political snub to the USA- telling them they've been going too far with extraditing UK citizens for potential crimes committed in the UK. Don't forget we signed the new extradition treaty, they refused to so it's only working one way.
As for USA security- how can they have a system which could start the third world war but is so open to hacking that someone with Aspergers can get into it and wreck it using a quite low powered laptop?
Makes you wonder how safe our bank accounts,credit cards etc. are!
Yes he should go on trial but here.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

My vote: he should have been extradited.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Exactly what I was going to post, but Margaret beat me to it.

If he has committed a crime, let him be tried for it in this country, where any relevant considerations about his health or state of mind can be properly considered.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Gordon, he may go on trial here...that decision will be made by the DPP.

Did Gary Mc Kinnon wreck the US security system? I haven't read that allegation...but saying that I haven't read everything about the case.

I'm not sure how highpowered your equipment needs to be....I thought it (hacking)was down to computer knowledge and expertise.
Anyway, he showed them that they needed to be much more security savvy if they want to protect their secrets.

I am not anti US, but feel that they need to know that we are no longer their poodle...was it Tony Blair and his cosying up to George Bush that made them think we would jump to their command?

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Strange isn't it, how everyone can so readily accept that someone who uses abusive language for no reason is suffering from a brain issue called Tourettes syndrome, yet cannot accept that someone who behaves in an amoral way is suffering from a brain issue called Aspergers syndrome.

He is not a super hacker, he simply sees the world in a different way to your average Joe Public because of his Aspergers. Many people with Aspergers have an affinity for numbers, a sequence of 1's and 0's whilst meaning nothing to us could look like a Janet and John book to him.

His brain sees things differently just like someone suffering from Dementia. If a woman with dementia shot her husband because she thought a stranger had entered her bedroom would you still be seeking a criminal trial?

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

No to extradition, yes to trial here. If there's been an offence, there should be a trial. But the guy never left the UK, no-one was harmed and I'm not sure if any UK laws were broken. A civil prosecution seems to be the answer.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

You sum this up so succinctly.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

According to the US Military he shut down 2000 US Army computers for 24 hours and earlier shut down 300 US Navy computers stopping the whole Navy supply chain. He also affected the NASA computers. He told them their security was rubbish(which it obviously was) and promised to continue disruption at the highest level. Cost to sort it-estimated at $700,000.

In both cases it should be for a court and medical experts to decide.
He seemed very clear and lucid when he was threatening them- no mention of looking for UFOs then, just calling the USA terrorists and promising to continue wrecking their systems.

Whatever his mental condition he's a dangerous man to be let loose with a computer-he might try it with Russia next time with more dramatic results!

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Although in my opinion there is no doubt he broke into some US government files and messed around, I'd suggest that it was nowhere near as calamitous as has been represented. Probably something like their version of the DVLA. This is the same US government/military (at the time of the offence) that said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I just cannot believe that the US keeps it top secret files/launch codes etc.. connected to the internet.

Medical experts have already decided that he has Aspergers. Clarity and lucidity is irrelevant, he is, by nature of how the syndrome affects him, totally amoral.

I agree, he is dangerous with a computer in his hands, which is why he has not been allowed anywhere near a computer since he was originally charged.

P.S. you do realise that putting the words USA and terrorists together means that Homeland Security have logged your IP and now have you on file as a potential threat :D :D :D

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Lets be realistic here guinness, how the hell can it be ensured he goes nowhere near a computer? utter balls to me, yeh can have one in yer pocket now.:confused:

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

I never said he should go to court in this country - just that he should be tried in court for his alleged crime

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Internet type crimes always creates these problems

Where was the crime committed?
Where was the law broken?
Who was the injured party?

Maybe he should be tried here because he was here when he committed the crime and what he did is illegal in this country.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Yes because it is for the court to decide if a crime has been committed or not.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Yep, point conceded, I guess it's down to how closely he is monitored, which in these days of mental health cutbacks is probably nowhere near closely enough :(

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

If you watch this video, please be aware that a person with Aspergers Syndrome finds it very difficult to lie.

Project Camelot interviews Gary McKinnon - YouTube!

He did not need a password to view what he saw.
He details what he saw.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Hey folks, looks like we got one too ... it seems like most Canadians want rid of him. In fact, if the Gestapo were still in business, we wouldn't lose a minute's sleep if he were handed over to them.:D

Accused terrorist can be extradited to U.S. - Edmonton - CBC News

This complete waste of skin used our country and the freedoms we as Canadians take for granted in order to agitate the feces big time in the US. I know, the yanks are different ... and sometimes hard to take ... but they are our staunchest ally and our biggest trading partner.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

To place Gary McKinnon on a par with your potential murderer is stretching the word 'terrorist' a little too far.

If you had watched the video you would realize that.

Since you are unwilling to inform youself for 40 minutes, you can 'fast read' a transcript here -

Project Camelot | Gary McKinnon transcript

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

After that I still think he should be in court

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

If the guy finds it so difficult to lie, he did a really good job of typing that he was"NiponetSecurity" when asked. I still think he should be tried here, and don't really know enough about Asperger's to comment,,but he certainly seems to be high functioning.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Agree i see no reason at all not to try him.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Point is there making this big deal about Aspergers Syndrome as a reason he should be treat with kid gloves. OK I get the impression people claim that this illness causes people to be obessive about certain subjects and in this case Computer Hacking and they spend all their time learning more about the subject. So this fact means that they don't suddenly do something that is abnormal to their normal behaviour and there is no fragmenting of their consciousness.

They are fully aware of what they are doing and can talk about it afterwards. Also this guy talks about seeing photos of UFO's on computers etc. Well if he's ill surely he's making up things that weren't real and what people want to hear.

If he's ill then we should take anything that he says with a pinch of salt!

Amazing Cigar Shaped UFO's and NASA Hacker Gary Mckinnon - YouTube

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

The above transcript was written in 2006 and he's since been deteriorating into a catatonic state. I'm guessing that he's now so depressed and frightened that he doesn't try to keep on top of his asperger condition with his music and running, etc.

There's been so many experts in different fields examine him and all have come to the same conclusion that I believe we're right not to send him to America for trial.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

But if illness is a reason . Why is the guy able to talk so clearly about it and has an agenda and attitude. He knows he did it, he did on purpose and he had reasons for doing it! So where does the mentally ill element come in?

If he's suffering because of the pressure on him because of doing this then that's his fault for doing it!
NASA UFO HACKER Gary McKinnon Seeking the Truth For The World!!! Support Him !!!! YouTube - YouTube

Listen to this interview and he clearly talks about an agenda - this wasn't just some crazy guy stumbbling onto a Military Computer system. He knew what he was doing and can talk about it - that sounds like a clever criminal to me!:rolleyes:

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Until this case came up I knew nothing about Aspergers Syndrome and "catatonic" thus have had to read up on the subjects. I once made a mistake that people who were "dyslexic" weren't what we would class as "clever" or "intelligent" and thus couldn't do well until I actually employed a young boy with that condition and where his school didn't think he had a future, we found he was an absolute whiz kid at electronic circuitry and computer programming. Apparently it's because dyslexics can view a whole picture. Just because a person's brain isn't wired the same as mine or yours doesn't mean they're not able to absorb information.

I totally believe Gary M when he said he was searching for information about UFOs. I believe his condition means that he tells the truth and I can compare him with a young inquisitive child - they always tell the truth and see no harm or wrong until it's pointed out to them.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

With the greatest respect...when did you qualify as a psychiatist?

And 6 years is an awful long time to be under threat...even a person with what could be considered a healthy mental picture would be affected.
You clearly do not understand anything about a person with Aspergers(and there are so many variants of this anyway).

Aspergers isn't mental illness per se...in Aspergers the brain is wired differently....it isn't something which can be cured...it isn't a chemical imbalance...it is something which has to be endured and the sufferer and their family develop their own coping strategies for the problems that this condition throws up.
These people often look normal...and high functioning sufferers can lead relatively productive lives...however they are obsessive, compulsive about routines and doing things the same every day.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Oh, and if he were such a clever criminal don't you think he would have sold off the information that he found to the highest bidder and high tailed it somewhere where he couldn't be found?
We have bigger criminals working in government...but they have people who are happy to hide their crimes.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

If they always tell the truth as yeh say explain the above to this numpty.:rolleyes:

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

I don't need to be a qualified psychiatrist to have an opinion. I have been in a long term situation with the system which has caused me a lot of distress, so I can understand how Gary McKinnon feels aout being under that kind of pressure for 10 years.

But the guy seems clearly to know what he's done and why he did it long after the event. So he has no mental abberation about it and seems to be setting himself up as some kind of alternative figurehead in to UFO and supressed free energy technologies that some people think the Governments area keeping away from us because they want us to carry on paying massive energy bills.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

How many times does the same thing have to be said..its a brain problem...sometimes you cannot tell if a person is suffering from Aspergers simply by looking or listening to them.

In an earlier post I used Tourettes and Dementia as examples of brain issues that people found believable and acceptable..maybe I should have used Epilepsy, you cannot tell if someone is suffering from Epilepsy simply by looking or listening to them, in fact even a specialist cannot diagnose some forms of epilepsy without using an EEG.

It's not about using 'kid gloves', it's about using common sense in deciding the fate of someone who has a mental problem. What really comes across in the video that MargaretR posted is that he does not think he has done anything wrong..he has a totally amoral way of looking at what he did...a classic sign of Aspergers Syndrome

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Yeh but he's still doing the rounds on the chat shows and being interviewed by people in alternative thinking and is disussing UFO's and so on which is like saying "what I did was right!"

How many times!!!! Please don't patronise. I know what you are saying but I am disputing this - he should be charged and go to court. He knows wrong from right! A jury should be the ones who decide all these issues discussed on this thread! ;) Fred West didn't know what he'd done was wrong - but he still had to be punished for it. Nor did Harold Shipley, they never admitted what they did was wrong.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

No, of course you don't.
But this man has been seen by not just one psychiatrist, but two.

And while I do not wish to suggest that your situation is lesser....I think it is unlikely to have been on a par with that of this man - to spending the rest of his life in another country - in prison, separated from his family(for doing something, which if, US security had been on their toes would never have happened)......especially bearing in mind that he is suffering from a well documented and recognised behavioural condition.
It is a behavioural condition ...his brain is wired very differently to yours and mine.

I have tried to enlighten you that this mental condition isn't like Schizophrenia, Paranoia or other mental conditions which can(and are)be controlled by drugs.

I'm not aware that he was setting himself up as some kind of figurehead for UFO/Energy guru...if he had not been caught, and if there had been no campaign to stop his extradition, then I think that people like you and I would hardly know this man's name.

He may yet stand trial here...and then he won't have got away with anything ......so you are being a bit previous in asking this question.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Is he doing the rounds on chat shows?
I certainly haven't seen any...and maybe if he is, it is so that he can now give his side of the story...which maybe wasn't possible before because of the case pending regarding his extradition.

And it was Harold Shipman.

As I have said in my previous post..he may yet stand trial and then you might be satisfied...unless he is acqitted and then that will be wrong too.

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Sorry if it came across at patronising, it wasn't my intention. Was trying to point out that your argument has been answered a number of times in this thread already.

I'll try to put it another way...You say he knows right from wrong...I totally agree, yes he does..the problem with some forms of Aspergers is that wrong and right don't figure in the brains computation..which is why I keep banging on about him being amoral and that this is a classic sign of Aspergers...

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree, no point circling each other

Re: Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?
 

Considering that my way of coping with life is sometimes to bury my head in the sands and try to ignore it, I sometimes wonder if I've got Asperger's, but I've never been tested.

However, I have met people with Asperger's. One person I knew went to South America back-packing and never came back. Two years on, I still think about him. Another is very useful if you want to know about buses in Manchester. Or obscure '70's pop songs come to think of it.

Obsessive behaviour and not having a strong moral compass are a large part of Asperger's. I suspect the American justice system isn't geared up for dealing with conditions like this. It puts people with mental illness and disability on death row, despite they're having very little awareness of what they were doing. At least in this country he'd be fairly certain of having a fair trial. An awful lot of people in the States are there because they're black, not because they've committed any crime.