Conspiracy Theories
 

I've never really been big on these things, preferring to think that the world, messed up and crazy as it is, is pretty upfront. But this Mali thing? Where did it suddenly spring from? Of course I do realize that news from Mali has been smouldering on the sidelines for some time ... maybe less visible than news of Jodi Foster's sexual preferences, or Lance Armstrong's upcoming cofession to, OMG, Oprah:rolleyes: But, all of a sudden, it's all Mali. From a background irritation, it's become the prime battleground for the War Against Terror. So, is there a conspiracy to manipulate the news? I don't know; but the whole thing is a tad surreal ... and the frogs taking the lead in combat:eek: Or maybe it's something simple ... like journalists would rather avoid dumps like Mali where the per capita share of the GDP is less than a thousand bucks a year ... it's not the asshole of the world, but you can sure smell it from there. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but there is something not quite right about it.

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Any reports of Gold Silver or oil being found yon Eric:rolleyes:

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The news dished up from mainstream media is unreliable , so I look for other sources.
I have found "AFRICAN NEWS AGENCY. The only independent news agency dedicated
exclusively to Africa."

There are eight news articles about Mali -
afrol News - Mali

From reading some of them I have gleaned that -

The country's main source of income is gold mining.(80% of GDP)

The wealth it generates is not benefiting the general population.

Aid from overseas for health projects was suspended due to corrupt misappropriation.

The 'insurgants' are the mercenaries who returned, armed, from fighting for Ghaddafi in Lybia.

They have been given the label 'Al Qaeda' and 'muslim insurgents', but they may well be just disgruntled population who do seem to have plenty to be upset about.

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PS further reading reveals USA armed the government last October
"Mali armed to fight al Qaeda insurgents afrol News, 20 October - The US military has handed over millions worth of military equipment to the Malian government to help them fight al-Qaeda's North African branch. Mali has already received a back-up from Algeria and Libya to fight the Islamists.
Local reports said trucks, powerful communication devices and clothing are among $5m worth of equipment being handed over to the Malian government.

Analysts said the gift from the US government and talk of co-operation with other countries in the region may mean the battle is about to begin in Mali, where rebellion has been on the rise in recent months."

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MargaretR, you really are a mine of misinformation.
Mali GDP- 39% agriculture, 39% services,22% industry(including mining).
Gold generates 56% of export value, 27% is agriculture, mainly cotton.
While gold mining is 80% of mining, it is not 80% of GDP.
Sources- various but probably all more reliable than yours.
Your post 3-'they may well be just disgruntled population'.
Your post 4-'Mali armed to fight al qaeda insurgents'- same source as post 3(afrol News).
Make your mind up!
As the stated aim of the insurgents is to impose Sharia Law on the whole of Mali I doubt if they are merely 'disgruntled population'.

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The version you read may well be true - it is not possible to get any unbiased version unless you are part of it.

The discrepancies serve to illustrate that you should not believe what any news sources say.

Where truth is in doubt, do not form any opinion.

It does raise doubts about the intentions of both sides in the conflict - so don't ally yourself to either - just be aware that
..there are two sides to any story
..history is written by the victors

...and why should you care anyway :D

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:DI don't, nor did I give an opinion or ally myself.
My info came from financial analysis of the Mali economy by various reputable bodies.
Yours, as usual , was incorrect and misleading.
Stick to conspiracy theories, we don't expect them to be believable.

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So why bother even looking at this kind of thing unless you have 1st hand knowledge - i.e. you ARE NOW or HAVE RECENTLY BEEN in Mali?

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Don't think she's been to Accy lately Dave:rolleyes:

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accy web is a MI5 front for a trial information gathering organisation and will later be replaced by UKweb when launched on a national basis.

sorry i wasnt sure if you were aksing for a theory or discssing them :D

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I really don't give a rat's ass about Mali ... what prompted me to open a thread was how the whole situation moved from walking pace to warp speed overnight. None of the ususal media speculation, none of the background, no fabricating of motives ... seems like all of a sudden the frogs are blasting the ever lovin' out of the "rebels" or whatever the hell they are, and it's front page news:confused: If, all of a sudden, it's a battle to stop the spread of terror into volatile region, how come the omniscient media didn't let us know? Ok, so there is no oil in Mali ... but there ain't much in Afghanistan either. Governments seem to have known. Canada already had plans to help the French with logistic support ... a couple of C-17s for heavy lifting. And troops from Burkina Faso :rofl38::rofl38: were already on the way. Maybe the media didn't think it was "newsworthy". After all, the Oscar nominations are much more fascinating. It just appeared to me to be a little strange.

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as soon as i read the french were taking the lead in combat i assumed it was a joke thread sorry

unless NATO'S new war policy is surrender upon arrival i cant see that happening

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You're a hard man!

I think we're so used to Africans killing Africans that it's not news anymore.
Muslim Africans killing Muslim Africans- that's a bit more news worthy.
The French getting involved- that is news as they don't seem to like fighting very much. With their past record I wouldn't think the al Qaeda lot are too worried.

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Much as I slate the French (as any good Englishman worth his salt should) I have to disagree with you there Gordon, a certain grudging respect has to be given to the French military especially the foreign legion & their Airborne troops, who are normally the first in when France gets involved militarily. They don't always win but they are tenacious & give a good accounting of themselves.

"The last valley" by Martin Windrow is worth a read if you have an interest in such things.


History Guy:Military History of France (1945- Present)


( I still don't believe I'm saying something good about the frogs.) :rolleyes:

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Saying nice things about the French should be a ban able offence

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Leslie Caron was lovely in "Lili".

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France withdrew from NATO many, many years ago.:rolleyes:

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ill give the french credit for one thing and thats they had the balls to ban the burkah where as our lot dare not for fear of loosing votes in certain areas occupied by them that wear em

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see no one noticed

so what gang did they join to hide behind then ?

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Well today a helicopter has crashed into a crane on a building under construction on London's riverside, close to MI6 headquarters. It seems to have been an accident, as it was foggy, but I wonder how long it will be before the conspiracy theories start? :confused:

Also wonder why tall buildings are constructed along the river when there is a heliport there and helicopters fly along the river as a matter of course.

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Ya Neil they eat frogs and women don't shave under their arms either:D

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Oh I agree completely, I should be sent from Englands fair shores & deposited in some foreign land for my sins .................... guess what ? :s_aim1: ;)

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Well, I heard from an imaginary friend that the crane was being operated by remote control by some geek using microsofts large structure simulation software.
The guy had insisted that he only needed to know how to raise and lower the arm, he didn't continue on the courses how to pick up or place anything using the hook.

As for large building being placed near rivers, obvious, they make a fantastic splash when filmed on someone's mobile.

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Doesn't seem to cause too many problems in New York ...

By the way, there were no reports of a giant ape climbing around on the skyscrapers were there?

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Nah mate, all the Chimps are down the way at the houses of Commons & Lords. ;)

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It may seem odd but could we be gearing up for another conflict, or is the situation in Mali being used by some governments to keep the proletarians guessing and quiet??

The way things are developing it looks as if Camoron & Co are just spoiling for a fight. Afghanistan, Libya, Ireland, Mali are all currently on the agenda and being touted in the tabloids as potential hotspots.

Here is another conspiritorial theory regarding this latest flare up that we, through the French, are becoming involved in, Mali is an anagram of "Mail" as in "Daily"!

Just a thought!

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Yes, it is a thought, perhaps though, if this is to be the standard of thought...

Best kept to oneself.

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It won't be easy!

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Was it ever thus? The last lot were notorious warmongers. In fact the slimey one was gagging to drag us into Iraq! :rolleyes:

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wasnt he half infact he threatened MPs jobs if they didnt vote to go to war

our ex MP once said that despite been aware that the people of hyndburn wanted no part of the Iraq war he felt it was the right thing to do so voted for it. ( sounds better than i had to or i woulda been sacked)

seems its a labour thing to know what the people want and do the exact opposite when it really matters:rolleyes:

and before the labour lot start panting and wheezing its not anti labour its just how it is and im sure conservitive MPs use their position to do as they please and not as they are supposed to do which is the representing of their constituants

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Because you hadn't noticed does not suggest that anyone else was unaware of the fact.
They insisted on total control of their own nuclear arsenal and were unwilling to have it controlled by the USA or to have their troops serve under a US Army Commander.

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I can only ever remember one MP who stood by the people who voted for him and that was Ken Hargreaves. I can remember during the community charge fiasco back in the early 90s (Poll Tax) the whips office continually badgering Ken to vote with the Government on the introduction of this tax, Kens reply was, that to vote for this legislation would betray every one of those people who voted for him and he wouldn't be able to look people in the face, there was even a last ditch attempt by the PMs office to try and change his mind, but he wouldn't change. Ken was only ever interested in representing the people of Hyndburn, he turned down any suggestion of a job (pps or junior minister) unlike the last two Labour incumbents who both have and had jobs in the whips office.

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Interesting aside mentioned on this mornings news.
We have an agreement with the French to share military assets and facilities where required. Thus we lend them transport planes.
The agreement also covers assisting each other if requested! So we could have troops in Mali before we realize it.

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Well at least they've improved from 1914 and 1939 they only had a white flag then:rolleyes:

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Sorry Jay, but as mich as I dislike the frogs, they lost a hell of a lot more men in battles during WW1 than we did, one of the main reasons for the battle of the Somme July 1st 1916, was to relieve pressure on the frogs, who were loosing men faster than they could replace them.

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In "Price of Glory" Alistair Horne details the horrendous losses and great courage of the French Army at Verdun. Even more than the British generals, those in command of the French Army threw brave men into futile attacks, notably in the Nivelle Offensive in 1917. Horne's thesis, explored in "To Lose a Battle" lays the blame for the poor showing of the French Army in 1940 to the losses in battles like Verdun, and the Maginot (himself a wounded vet of Verdun) Mentality on their desire to avoid the losses of WWl ... ironically, a strategy based on the success of the fortifications at Verdun, particularly Forts Douaumont and Vaux.

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Napolean showed that with the right leadership a French Army could be invincible.
I doubt we'd have beaten him on our own.
I think when we laugh at the French we're not laughing at the soldiers, we're laughing at the pathetic politicians and Generals who have led them ever since.

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Thread wander- I read somewhere that one of the things which contributed to him loosing the Battle of Waterloo was his piles!
They were so bad he couldn't sit on his horse and being short, when he got off he couldn't oversee the battlefield and his troops.
I wonder which hurt him most- his piles or loosing the battle?

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And happily wandering right along from piles to biorhythms, to kidney stones: Years ago, long before .com, I read a fascinating article on biorhythms in "Scientific American". After looking at Napoleon's bior's for the day of Waterloo, the only conclusion is that he should have stayed in bed, and slept thro' the day. In the Franco-Prussian War, Napoleon lll, was in so much pain from kidney stones that he wore rouge to cover the palor ... (or maybe he just liked make up, and possibly the wearing lace panties:eek:). However, it is perhaps interesting (in terms of how far one can wander:D) to note that von Blucher seemed to do ok at Waterloo even though he believed he had been impregnated by a French grenadier, and was carrying his child, an elephant:alright:

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As thread wanders go that is a marathon.
Someone should have told von Blucher that at his age he'd definately gone through the menopause and couldn't possibly be having an elephant.

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Either way it was a bloody mess!

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I've heard of 'Consorting with the Enemy' but that was taking a bit too far!

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It's that Mali thing again ... no doubt those of who take an interest in what's happening in this screwed up world of ours, have noticed that British forces are on their way to Mali. And Canadians were informed today that Canadian special forces are on their way to (or are already in) Mali. Joint Task Force 2 soldiers are in Mali to, officially:rolleyes:, protect Canadian assets in Mali:rofl38: As far as I know these assets are: One embassy, and one RCAF heavy lifter. Even the talking heads are questioning why one would send elite special forces troops to guard a building and an airplane:confused: A few guys from the City of Moose Jaw P. D. could do that job. JTF 2 is so secretive that even they don't know who they are. Oh, and another $13 million in aid for Mali. The US has agreed to mid-air refuelling French planes. All the ususal suspects seem to be getting involved. Maybe they've given up on the Taliban and chosen an enemy even the French can push around.

Something is, I believe, going on behind the scenes. Free access to information about what our governments are doing is limited ... or it is possible that the Western allies are taking the threat from militant Islam very seriously; as seriously as some of us would like them to take it.

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Have to say,it is possible,but being a cynical get,highly unlikely i reckon.I would think its more to do wi £££££s fer some beggar.

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This belgian politician presents his view of the reason for the Mali war.

Belgian MP LAURENT LOUIS stands against war in Mali and exposes the international neo-colonial plot - YouTube

(you can turn on subtitles)

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I believe that France and Germany have just celebrated 50 years of friendship, obviously this friendship has limitations otherwise, surely,:confused: Germany would be lending France transport planes.

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Actually Dave :)

French Mission in Mali Puts Germany in a Tight Spot - SPIEGEL ONLINE

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I've just read the article, thanks DaveinGermany.

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Not much of a plane, is it. Don't they have any C-17s? You'd think will all the cash floating around the Reich they could have a whole fleet of those big Boeings. Even we have a few. If they don't want to buy them out of current revenue, surely there must be some loot left over from the last version of the Reich, hidden in a cave somewhere with Frederick Barbarossa:rolleyes:. That looks like the latest version of the He 111;) What are they gonna haul, escargots:confused:

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Well for the German, French & Turkish air forces it's good enough, it has the transport capabilities a little less than the "Fat Albert" C-130. As the military of those mentioned tend towards light rapid reaction forces, unlike America, Russia etc who rely on large ground forces & conventional mass arrays of Armour, Infantry & Artillery in a war fighting capacity, I reckon the Transall C-160 is aptly fit for purpose.

C-160 Transall Cargo and Tactical Transport Aircraft - Airforce Technology

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Nah ... I'd rather think of the frogs and the krauts are being cheap. And their rapid response to conflicts such as those in Afghanistan seems to be in a direction away from the combat.

There are going to be more Afghanistans and Malis. I don't see it as good logistics to get into a conflict as the French did in Mali, and then dial Rent-a-Flying-Truck to handle the moving. Hey, Canada and England, can we borrow a couple of your C17s? Pretty please?

And it's not only the Yanks and the Ivans who are using the heavy lifters. The RAF has some; the RCAF has four; the RAAF has three with an option for more; how else are they going to move their new M1 Abrams tanks around? Even Qatar, the UAE, and India have them. Canada will be using them for Disaster Assistance Response Teams (DART). It takes a lot of lifting capacity to move portable hospitals, engineers and equipment, emergency generators (the big mothers; not like the one I have in my garage;)), water treatment plants etc. etc. Not only that, the C17 can land at CFS Alert, an upaved runway which constitutes the world's most northerly airport.

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Perhaps the l'Arme dAire and the Luftwaffe never had any plans to fly further than to UK - Again

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Seems like the RCAF C-17 has moved 350,000 kg of French military equipment ... any guesses on how many white flags that would be?:D

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Na Eric not the white flag the French battle flag, which is a white cross on a white background:rolleyes:

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My French has got even worse since I came home - should read "l'Arme de l'Aire" and now I am not sure about the first l' - but who the hell cares

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What:jimbo::D

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"The French are playing tough, very tough" ... I got this one from an article in the "Guardian" (sorry about that;)) ... And guess what tough is, French style? Not answering thier cell phones:eek::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:Wow ... you don't want to pee those guys off:D Who knows what they will not be doing next?

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The next thing we'll hear Eric, is that French women will refuse to shave under there arms:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D

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Wow! What a major league surprise this is.

Mali troops attack rival red beret camp in Bamako | World news | guardian.co.uk

And all of us thought it was going to be a walkover:rolleyes: Why else would the French army be involved:D And, of course, none of the western powers who are involving themselves knew of these minor internal disagreements:rolleyes: I do believe the whole article can be summed up in two words: Mission Creep.