Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Staying on a positive theme for the day, lets discuss Fracking. So by complete fluke it turns out that Lancashire is sitting on a mountain of gas.

As with most things, the Accyweb community will want to turn this into a negative immediately, pointing out that there was a small earthquake in Blackpool once. Marge may have fond memories of bucket and spade holidays there as a kid but if you've been there lately you'll notice it's a complete dump, on a par with Hull.

Returning to the benefits of potentially decades of Gas reserves, the positives are numerous:

• jobs, jobs, jobs - construction, process, research, operations, sales the list is endless and for one they'll be in your county.
• Youth unemployment is over 20% so read point 1 again.
• cheaper gas bills.
• reduced reliance on Middle East and Russia.
• Balance of Payments improves as we export more.
• Huge Tax windfall for government. We owe 1.2 Trillion pounds so this matters.
• Scotland is stupid enough to vote yes to devolution, so I welcome energy self sufficiency for England.

Previously on this forum people have passionately advocated pulling resources out of the ground even though we were doing it at a massive financial loss (coal mining). Here we have an opportunity to obtain an energy resource and make money on it to the benefit of most of the country. Observations and views welcome.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

We have discussed this before, 2 years ago.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ool-57860.html

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

The Fracking process uses vast quantities of water,
Water resources are in short supply worldwide. Singapore has to import some of theirs and recycles waste water.

Here in NW England you may consider that we have plenty of the wet stuff, yet we still experience water shortages at times. When a commodity becomes scarce the price of it increases, so 'possible' reduction in gas prices will be partly offset by water price increases, as expensive water recycling becomes neccessary. Water recycling plants will add to the infrastructure needed to support fracking. The flares at the well sites pollute the air in the vicinity. In our densly populated nation, we know what the industrial revolution pollution did to the health of recent past generations.

To get the idea of how much water the process uses I found this -
"As many as 25 fracture stages (per horizontal leg) may be involved in preparing a single site for production, each requiring injection of more than 400,000 gallons of water—a possible total of more than 10 million gallons before the well is fully operational. A portion of the injected water flows back to the surface, heavily contaminated with the fracking chemicals and others it has absorbed from the shale. Depending on the local geology, this “return water” may also include radioactive elements."

The extraction of methane may well keep our electricity supply stable, but you may be faced with the choice between 'keeping the lights on' and 'turning on a tap'.

Hobson's choice - sit in the dark or die of thirst, (whilst wearing your gas mask) :D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Here they didn't like the price Malaysia were charging for water so built desalination plants to turn the sea into drinking water.

Can't they just use seawater ? I'm sure the UK is not short of that.

There is an environmental impact, but technology is constantly improving and I still think the net is positive.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

http://www.schistehappens.com/A%20Do...20the%20UK.pdf
extract -

"6. There is no need to transport water to the site as the UK has lots of sea, big rivers and bountiful natural springs etc.

(response)
Fracking uses millions of gallons of water for each and every well. Much of England is already suffering from serious water shortages in the summer, and it is starting to become a year - round problem . Water conservation is a priority for central government. Local authorities also have water saving high on their stated list of priorities. To contaminate untold millions of gallons of wholesome water under these circumstances is simply unjustifiable. And then to return it to the aquifers is doubly irresponsible.
As for using sea water, salt water is simply no good for fracking."


PS Singapore has a water importation arrangement with Malaysia which lasts for several years yet. The rush is on to build more waste water recycling facilities but in the small land area you have this must impact on 'quality of life'

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Anything that boots up industry and the economy will do for me Mr E :cool:
Incidentallythe quakes cracking caused by fracking were measured at less than some caused by coal mining in post war years.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Only a handful of test wells have been drilled so far.

I do not relish the thought that those defunct coal mines will fill with toxic waste water which would eventually seep into underground aquifers and so back to the surface in unexpected places.

One saving grace for us in east Lancs is that the coal bearing shale we have is unlikely to be worth fracking, because the 'vast methane reserves' are in Cheshire and Bowland where a different type of shale rock predominates.

Take your pics of Pendle hill and the Forest of Bowland now while is is still unspoilt by the fracking. You thought windfarms were an eyesore - wait till you see a fracking site!

Aerial views of fracking sites -
WTFrack.org: Aerial Images of Fracking Pads - Fracking Site Images

Britain's shale gas deposits 'could supply country for 25 years' | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Newtown Creek Watstewater Treatment Plant | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Fracking: Pictures, Videos, Breaking News

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

I was going to hit the "Like" button Margaret, but don't want to be thought of as supporting Fracking. I do, however, like your views on the subject.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

You my friend are a bit of a dipstick.
1. The jobs created will be for specialists in this field. Therefore specialist will be brought into the area. So there will be no jobs for the locals.
2. See 1. No jobs apart from specialist therfrore youth unemployment remains the same.
3. I remember when we got North Sea gas, it was supposed to be that cheap it was nearly free. Like hell it was. Therefore no cheap gas.
4. We will always rely on others because your government would sooner sell whatever we have at our disposal to others rather than let us have it any cheaper.
5. We have vast reserves of coal throuout GB. Rather than employ the unemployed and start mining again ( we have coal seams up to 37 feet high) under the Warwickshire basin at 500 meters underground between Coventry and Oxford that is a 100 years of modern minings worth. That's one area alone.
We are paying out to other countries in aid now as we have been doing for years 10 billion pounds plus per year.
If you want to discus the for and against of modern mining and you appear to be the expert. Fire away mister.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

I am for anything(safe) which would bring down the price of energy to the consumers, but I think we would be naive to think that this will really happen.
I am also concerned about the contamination of the water table....I haven't seen anything which has convinced me that the companies doing this fracking will be able to ensure that contamination won't happen.
After all they are not in it to provide a service...they are in it to make a nice fat profit for their shareholders and a windfall for the governmnet.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

One of my grandsons got a masters geology degree last year and works for a geology consultancy firm in Basingstoke.

He recently supervised drilling near Derby. I didn't ask what they were drilling for but I expect it was shale gas (he knows my views on the topic). The east midlands is yet another area which is being considered for extraction.

We have a government who considers anything north of Watford is a wasteland already :(

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

It's been done to death on other threads Mog.
It's the cost of acquisition that's the kicker for domestic coal.
The coal industry has been in decline since the 1st WW, accelerated after the 2nd and the miners strikes did for it in the end.
There has been an inexorable decline in the demand for coal. Even as late as the 1960s, British railways were run on coal power. But, steam power soon vanished in place of diesel and electric. Households used to burn coal for central heating. But, after the Clean Air Act of the 1950s, this rapidly declined as people switched to more modern forms of heating.

I got to take issue with GEaston though "Fame at last for Lancashire"...as if !
Put on your Dunces hat and don't take it off until you have made a list of 20 things Lancashire is famous for.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Dump? Blackpool is on the way to looking great IMHO

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

well, personally I have never really been a fan of Blackpool.
But I like Lytham St Annes.(must be my age) :)

Re: Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

You said never. Wasn't you young once?

Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Mog already lost the coal argument, but alas can't accept it. I know that we have hundreds of years of coal reserves but we are unable to get the stuff out of the ground because the price of coal is too low relative to our cost of extraction. I've said it before, but especially for you Mog I can see I need to repeat that our wonderful mines lost £1.5m a day when you were in them. I'm all for extracting resources, but only if its worth doing. If not we can leave it or our grand kids instead of just leaving debts.

20 things Lancashire is famous for? If your question is recently then the list would be decline, crime, drug taking, dereliction and collective whining on this forum. Im 15 short. Historically Accrington had many things to be proud of but I am a loss to name 20 today.

No water shortages here Marge. The supply arrangement with Malaysia has been in place for decades but only recently did they hike the price such that the government said sod his we'll build our own. The govt here has about $550bn of positive reserves so can build anything they like without wondering where the money is coming from. Those positive reserves equate to about $110,000 per man woman and child.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Keep the dunces hat MrE and write out 100 times:" There is a difference between famous and infamous and I must use the words appropriately in future"

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

In post #7 I said - "One saving grace for us in east Lancs is that the coal bearing shale we have is unlikely to be worth fracking, because the 'vast methane reserves' are in Cheshire and Bowland where a different type of shale rock predominates."

However, it seems that there is a fracking technique to extract gas from coal seams, so east lancs could be fracked.

Fracking the nation: the dash for gas beneath rural Britain | Environment | The Guardian
extract -

"Coalbed methane extraction is a related method, which is actually at a more advanced stage in the UK. It involves the drilling of wells into coal seams followed by the pumping out of water, which results in gas being released by the coal, and being brought to the surface. Lastly, there is the so-called underground coal gasification now proposed for – among other places – an area beneath Swansea Bay in west Wales, which involves the partial burning of subterranean coal deposits"

I am astounded by the lunacy of burning coal seams underground. There is one silver lining to converting UK into one big gas producing land mass wasteland - no immigrant will want to live here, but then, neither will we.:rolleyes:

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

I aint so sure, I am seriously beginning to think the guy is a "Troll" plain n simple.:rolleyes:

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Now isn't that a positive vision of Lancashire?
Most northern towns have similar problems to the ones you have pointed out so positively.

Here are a few positives you might like to mull over.

The Howarth Art Gallery.Especially the collection of Tiffany Glass.
The warmness of the people.(we only whine when there is something to whine about, and we can do nothing practical about it)
The proximity of green countryside - notably the Ribble Valley.
Some lovely architecture(though not the council building on Broadway).
Some beautiful public parks(Oakhill, Mercer, Gatty to name but a few).

Maybe there are some others that members could add.
Is that positive enough for you?

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

The best thing i can think of about Lancashire, is Eastons in Singapore.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

See.....I knew someone would have something positive to say on the issue......even though it is a bit of a thread wander. :D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Positive about Lancashire ........... it's not Yorkshire! (whose Tykey arses we kicked back in the mists of time) :D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Lancashire Hotpot
Black Peas
Chorley Cakes
Eccles Cakes.
FISH AND CHIPS(yes this combo sold in a chippy originated in Lancs)
Lancashire Cheese(OK I DONT LIKE IT BUT GREAT IN CHEESE AND EGG....)
Parkin
Uncle Joe's Mint Balls
Black puddings(OK also DISGUSTING but....)
Bury market(best market in England!)
Toad in the hole
Accrington Stanely( who the hell from any other county can say they have one of those NOBODY)
Pobs( I had to look this up and I am sure nobody actually eats it. But my sisters used to love it)
Blackpool and its attractions(as said earlier the promenade is looking very well now)
Lots of famous wrestlers(debatable upon actually liking wrestling)

Well that's 15... 20 is hard to come up with but here is a bonus

Retlaw (Im sure no other county has one of these relics) :p

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Discounting Accrington's current favourite son, and as I now reside at the other end of the county, I will attempt a few more Lancashire gems.

Morecambe Bay potted shrimps (yuk for me but a lot of people like them hence they sell for a fortune on posh menus)
Morecambe Bay itself (of course)
Forest of Bowland, little visited and possibly best so for the wildlife but not the economy
Lancashire witches
Preston North End, not much glory these days but many famous names have been associated with the club which according to Wikipedia were founding members of the English Football League in 1888 and the first league champions, achieving the English football "Double" in the same season by winning the FA Cup without conceding a goal.

Well Rob that brings your 15 up to 20, will that do? And well done Retlaw for getting a mention.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Yep that will do. And I think the collective whining on this forum is one of the positives too :p

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Whining to some, vociferously expressing an opinion to others! ;)

Perspectives you see. :)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

exactly ! :D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

D, I'm am not talking about domestic coal and neither is this thread. Modern coal mining which produces small clean coal for industrial use that is converted to coal dust in the mine and burnt at a power station at the pit bottom was an idea that I put forward to British coal years ago. You produce power on site and add it to the national grid. The idea was not to use coal for trains or domestic use but to produce power at a fraction of the cost of importing coal from all over the world. One day my friend. One day. No need to Frack.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

here you go ..

New report shows rich gas reserves which could lead to widespread 'fracking' in East Lancashire (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Fracking hell, if Jack Straw says its good news were doomed.:rolleyes:

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Why am I included in this list, and as a relic at that.
Went on a recall to the Docs on Friday, he says I'm doing well, he was surprised at at how low my blood pressure was for some one of my age, and gave me the all clear as long as I keep taking the pills.
No Jaysay before you start I don't have to take ugly pills like you do.
Some more thing to add to the list. Accy Web, Accrington Pals, the most famous Battalion in the country, Accrington War Memorial the largest memorial outside London. The 42nd Division at Gallipoli, all Lancashire Regiments.

Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Well those positives don't outweigh the negatives. If they did I wouldn't be buying up entire buildings in Warner Street for only £20k each. I do though agree that some of the architecture is really nice. Just a pity that a lot of it has been allowed to go to ruin.

Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Enjoyed the lists and never expected to see mints, cake and other highlights.

Back to fracking, I'm glad that the vociferous attempts to attack me have resulted in a new enlightenment about a topic. That is actually beneficial because your coal reserves are just going to be set on fire where they are..... Can't see anything positive coming from that.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Just think every time you eat fish and chips from a chippy - LANCASHIRE. Thats some crap to be proud of.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

I see no one has mentioned Jon Anderson yet.....

A founder member of one of the greatest Prog Rock bands ever YES...

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

You asked for positives - we gave you a whole list...so stop being picky.

You should be glad you can pick up properties in Warner Street for such ridiculously low prices......it gives you the opportunity to tell us about it - and to make a profit. Isn't that positive enough for you?

Oh, yes...and another thing...... if the place were so damn negative - you'd be taking your money and spending it elsewhere....somewhere where those negative attributes you level at Accrington, are less noticeable.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

The growth of 60's music..Hollies, Freddie and the Dreamers to name but two.
Lancashire League Cricket
Lancashire County Cricket Club.
Uncle Joes Mint Balls
Danny Boyle.

Point of order DinG... we lost the War of the Roses

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Which bit of "the cost of acquisition" do you not understand Mog.
If it was more economical to do, it would be up there with fracking as a way to reduce our dependency on Oil and imports of gas and coals.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Agree but will he be doing that in Singapore??

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Doubt it will just continue growing his head out yon.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Not in my history books we didn't, 1485 Battle of Bosworth field, Henry Tudor kicks butt of Richard III, final score Lancs 1 - Tykes 0. :)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Fair enough about all the things that Lancashire can be proud of but here's a tough question - what has come out of Hyndburn/Blackburn/Burnley in the last 20 years?

Accy born and bred but since I left my eyes have been opened to just how rundown the area is in comparison with other parts of the country... its sad and I can't see how its going to improve :-(

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Yeh it has got run down sam, but were yeh comparing it too? many places i visit n there is quite a few,are also run down, depends what area of a place yeh venture in, no easy answer but thats the way it is.;)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Marge - it's far from a guarantee that I'll make any money on the properties. Renovation cost is substantial (tens of thousands for each building) because like so many properties in the town the previous owner let them to go to ruin. Not quite a pigeon coop like say the Conservative Club but not far off.

Once renovated who knows if I'll find a tenant, or a buyer. Noone wants to buy into the town - that's why the prices are as they are, but even then they don't attract buyers. Those Warner St properties failed to get any bids at 50k the pair the month before the auction I bought them (one of your best streets apparently), and the Hope & Anchor remains unsold after years at auction.

If I make a profit on it you'll begrudge it. If I don't you'll doubtless welcome that. However, in reality you should not look to the council or government to renovate the towns buildings - they won't do it and can't afford it. What the town needs is private people to take them on, preferably using local labour (exclusively in my case) and you should hope that they make some money on it to encourage them to take on other parts of the town.

Sam hit the nail on the head, a point that merits discussion particularly around solutions.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Was it cashman's dog or a Mr. Wilde that coined the phrase 'A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing'?
Whichever it was I reckon it was due to meeting GEaston.:rolleyes:

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Post 38 on this thread, Mrs P did ask you not to use that form of address...

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...t-64446-3.html

As for you, of course you should be making a profit on the Warner street properties - that's what you're there for. It should not be up to council or government.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Mrs P, asked him politely, as that is her way, Meself i treat the pig ignorant wi pig ignorance.;)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

You must think that you are in with a chance of making a profit - or why would you be bothering to do renovations?
You are a businessman - someone who balances risk against the probability of making money.
And why do you think I would begrudge you any success?
Your success will mean that the town is getting a renovated building rather than one that is derelict and and eyesore.
I think you are measuring me by your standards - and that is a mistake.
I would never wish for you to fail in a venture that involves the town. I know that it takes private investors to invigorate the town.
I'm just trying to work out why you would be doing it if you really thought it was such a dump - and that a profit was unlikely.

Oh, and I'm not being picky, but please do not address me as Marge.
I have nothing in common with Stork.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

From my history books DinG:

After Bosworth in 1486, he married Edward IV's daughter Elizabeth of York, thereby uniting the Yorkist and Lancastrian claims. This event is seen as marking the end of the War of Roses; although some Yorkists supported in 1487 an unsuccessful rebellion against Henry, led by Lambert Simnel. The War of Roses left little mark on the common English people but severely thinned the ranks of the English nobility.

Mr Tudor sold out and diluted the Lancastrian gene pool, ergo we lost ;)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Last time I checked your surname wasn't Simpson
:D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Other way round D, diluting the "Yorkist" gene pool I'd say & the dominant family was that of Mr.Tudor, so, we won! :D

Don't you go bringing your Tykey supporting, traitorous tendencies on here you! ;)

Re: Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Im comparing it to the other towns Ive been around in the last 5 years - Levenshulme, Hadfield/Glossop/Stalybridge, Holmfirth.

Levenshulme is the closest to Accy in terms of being run down and if given the choice between living in either personally Id chose Accy due to family and friends but id recommend someone else to choose Levenshulme(Manchester Centre in 10 mins on the train, Muslim majority leading to strong community and low anti social behaviour - down side being lack of pubs!)

No doubt there are plenty of other places that are run down and in fact despite living in a very nice area of West Yorkshire my girlfriend and I are looking to move back to Lancashire simply due to family and friends.. we have not for one minute though considered moving back to Hyndburn after where we have been living... Towns like Ramsbottom seem to have cracked it with near-countryside locations and the right attitude - if you poured enough money in you could rebrand Accy as a Manchester commuter town in the counrry

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

And no blue hair was apparent.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Try Gorton, or Moston me daughter lived in both places oer 10 yrs ago they made accy look like the West Bank of Paris:D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Fraternising with the enemy, you being an ex-military man (I think?) mean? There's nowt wrong with that in the current day. It's not a hanging offence ;)
I have to confess a preference to a goodly number of Yorkshire Ales over those available from the Red Rose shire. :D
Right I'm off down to the Forts for a couple of Kelham Island. ;)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Levenshulme is walking distance to Gorton - used to do my big shop at Gorton Tesco :-) There's a decent market there. No doubt its rougher than Accy mind

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

HADFIELD:eek: they filmed League of Gentlemen there :eek: enough said:D:D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Yeh i know sam, daughter was goin into Manchester fer night out wi mates one friday evening approx 11 yrs ago, She stepped oer what she thought was a drunk in the doorway of a nearby pub (meeting mate to share taxi into town) she was in pub less than 10 mins when police arrived, Pub was shut down, no-one could leave, seems the drunk was not, twas a guy that had been shot dead.:eek: She never got to town fer her night out.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

He married a yorkist so it was the lancastrians still GIVING it to the tykes , now sing up "All yorkshiremen ###g sheep all yorkshiremen ###g sheep:D

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

I suppose that takes this thread full circle Mrw..... fracking a yorkie....fame at last.

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

Might as well stick this in here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfB8ERk8L4

Hope someone remembered to bring the tube steaks and the marshmallows.;)

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

So, we're sat on 50 to 100 years of our own gas which would fuel conventional power stations (quick and relatively cheap to build) but we give the French(and Chinese) a £90 billion contract for a nuclear station(cost £16 billion) to supply electricity at twice the current price for 35 years! That price is inflation linked as well, so heads they win, tails we lose.
The Finnish nuclear plant has had wildly escalating costs and is years behind schedule so the 10 years delivery date for ours could well fail. When finished it will only supply 7% of our usage anyway.
Are we mad? We have an energy asset which the Chinese, Japanese,French etc would die for.
The Chinese are burning so much poor quality coal in their power stations that they can't see across the road for the smog. But we have to set an example, whatever the cost. Mad!

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

The answer to 'are we mad'......is, well, those who hold the purse strings......our money most certainly are....or perhaps they aren't.....perhaps they are getting a nice fat hand out from someone for rubber stamping this deal.

No, they wouldn't do that would they?

The politicians are those who have no worries about how to heat their homes......we pay for it for them.
They are not going to be forced to make the choice of whether to heat....or eat, either now or in the future.
If I sound disillusioned with those who run this country, well, maybe it is because
I AM!

Re: Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire
 

because their electricity runs on broken prommises