Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Love him or hate him for his hedonism, questionable films or comedy output, the stuff he wrote as guest editor in the New Statesman this week rings true with quite a few of us on this forum.

Russell Brand on revolution: ?We no longer have the luxury of tradition?

Can't be bothered reading the above..he pretty much says the same thing on newsnight to Paxman (Ignore the first 2 or 3 minutes of puerile stupidity until Paxman winds him up and he gets angry and serious)

NEWSNIGHT: Paxman vs Brand - full interview - YouTube

Another comedian, Robert Webb joins the fray with an opposing view, stating that he has rejoined labour because of Brands musings.

Robert Webb rebukes Russell Brand for urging people not to vote | Television & radio | theguardian.com

For me..Brand has hit the nail on the head and although he has no credible workable solution, at least he has highlighted what most of us feel like regarding the current political system...i.e. it sucks! and it sucks big time! and it's all soundbites and done to pacify the plebs and get money from corporates or unions, depending on party, to continue the status quo.

He says 'don't vote'..don't give them the mandate, the argument against is 'if you don't vote you lose the right to argue'

This is nonsense...just imagine a general election and not one single person votes...would the system collapse? In all probability the law would be changed within hours making it illegal not to vote just to sustain this biased and unfair political system.

Webb argues that we have already had our revolution, the point he misses is that our current system is precisely what we revolted against...i.e. a few reaping the rewards whilst the majority sucked it up and doffed their caps.

Lets put that in the context of today...MP's rip us off with expenses for £1000's and are promoted to the House of Lords, a single mother takes £200 from the benefits system by working a few hours behind the bar and is given community service and has to pay it back, on the same day a banker illegally shares information and is sacked with a golden handshake and a massive pension. The next day he is headhunted by another corporate bank and put in a similar position.

Graham Jones has put a couple of pictures on twitter today..One of the Market Hall (which he describes as fantastic because it has free wi-fi thanks to the labour council) and one obviously set up, buying some fish and handing over the cash......well way to go Graham.....really getting to the heart of why most of us think you are ALL party and no people! And why we all think you are just another production line politician.

I've used 'we' and 'us' quite a lot in this rant...anyone disagree?

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

I disagree, an MP paying for something that can't be right I bet he blagged it off Steve Bramwell is it ? :D

Everyone's fed up Guinness and have their own troubles at the moment whether it be money, jobs, bills etc people have realised it doesn't matter who is in power things are just getting tougher. Most people just don't have any interest in politics and although I agree with your examples of injustice there is nothing ordinary folk can do about it.

When you say pacify the plebs who do you mean ordinary folk ? Not you then ? :confused: I think you will find the 'plebs' see through it as well they just don't start a thread on here about it.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

I have been saying don't vote for people that you can't believe in. I have been saying it forever!

And if they made voting a legal requirement, and we didn't do it would they jail the whole population?
Voting doesn't work...or no, voting puts people in power who have agendas other than the one in the manifesto...and that is the problem. We have politicians who have done no real work in their lives, they know nothing of the problems which beset their constituents, and what is more...while they are riding a rich gravy train, paid for by us, they will never know and care even less.

You will never get people in this country to with-hold their vote...there are too many people who are bound by the tradition of voting for the colour of a flag....even though there is so little difference between the parties now...the ideologies of the major parties are not what they were 20, 30, 40, years ago, but you try getting hidebound folk like C'monstanley to see this...you will be wasting your time.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

It's an obvious 'kissing babies' photo, I have no doubt that Graham paid for his fish but that is hardly the point I was making. I should have likened the tweet to Nero putting on a concert and wondering how he could heat the theatre.

I'm a pleb and proud of it. As for not having an interest in politics and starting threads, I'll let another pleb called Plato answer that...'The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men'.

Do you really believe that if everyone had stayed quiet and not posted on local forums, newspaper forums and twitter, Cameron would have done anything else other than say he was 'disappointed' by British Gas??

There are hundreds of examples of 'ordinary folk' saying 'enough is enough' and doing something about it...Tolpuddle, Peterloo, Jarrow, Ghandi, Rosa Parks etc..etc..

It only takes a single act to light the blue touchpaper, I don't have the intelligence, skill or bravery to strike the match, I'm no Plato. But by posting, offering debate and constantly highlighting the injustice and failure of our current system... maybe, just maybe....it will reach someone with a viable alternative and a Zippo.

Gotta be better than just sitting around, saying nothing and abject resignation to the whims of the mandarins of westminster

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

As for Russell Brand...he is a hypocrite...he talks about profit...saying that where there is a profit, there is a deficit. He is a rich egotistical twit, who is looking for the main chance to get some publicity...and hey, it's working.

He isn't exactly a beacon to the huddled masses. to those people who struggle to make ends meet...he owns the great house in Hollywood Hills that used to belong to Laurence Olivier..and he has an estimated 15 million in the bank......not small change is it...and he isn't going to be wondering where the money is coming from to pay the winter gas bill.
No, all this political spouting he has done recently is to raise his celebrity profile to sell tickets for his latest tour(currently priced at £50 a pop).....more dosh into his bank account

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Margaret, you'll get no debate from me about him being a rich egotistical twit, but....does that make his arguments wrong?

I'm going to be nice and warm this winter and I don't have to worry about fuel costs does it make me a hypocrit because I think the government should do more to protect the less well off than me?

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

No, it doesn't make him wrong, but his spoutings do make him a hypocrite of the first order.
He actually couldn't give a flying ferret for the cause of the common people..he only cares that this stunt has raised his profile, and this is good for his tour...making him yet more money...and before you ask...no, I am not against him making money. If people are daft enough to part with their hard earned cash to hear him spout his foul mouthed rubbish, then that is entirely up to them...but for him to portray himself/or get the media to portray him as a campaigner for the common people is at best dishonest.
He says he only took on the guest editorship of the New Statesman because he was asked by a 'pretty woman'...which suggests to me that he was thinking with his trouser snake.

As for your question about you keeping warm...no it doesn't make you a hypocrite.......you just have a big pile of wood ready for burning.
Russell Brand is a hypocrite because he is pretending to be concerned about the people who have less than himself...when he doesn't give a hoot about them....it is just a publicity thing to get him in the public eye...that is what makes him a hypocrite

None of us need to be informed by Russell Brand of the dire state of politics...and it isn't just in this country...neither do we need to be informed of what his opinion is that we should do to rectify it.
You have a brain, and I have a brain...we are both capable of cogent thought(as are many members of this forum...I won't say all, because there are some who I have doubts about, no names, no pack drill)......but whether we can influence others with out thoughts and opinion is another matter entirely.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Yeh but he's obviously very clever - so what would you do if you were rich? Give it all the poor? :rolleyes: :D

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

What I would do is immaterial...I am not the one standing up pontificating in the media.

As for being clever...well there might just be someone at the back of him pulling the media strings...so I will reserve judgement on that.
As far as I am concerned, he is an odious man with little to recommend him.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Isn't that the point though...you and me do not need educating on the ills of the party political system or the failings of thatcherite yuppie capitalism, we know it doesn't work. But the majority of young people do not. It's not because they are thick, its because they simply don't care, their only interest is the next concert or the playstation 4 release date. When a popular youth rebel celebrity opens his mouth, they listen. As evidence, you need look no further than how much money poured into Live Aid in the hour after Geldof made his infamous foul mouth rant on live TV.

We're not going to agree on this, but I think Brand has been quite open and honest about why he's done this, he admits it was first and foremost to impress a girl, as was his comic relief trip to Africa. But then he has sat down and thought about the issues and made some compelling and cogent arguments. He came away from a Paxman roasting much better than quite a few politicians have. He admits he has no answers, but he has more chance of reaching that kid with the viable alternative and Zippo than you or I do.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

So, aren't these youngsters going to make the connection that this guy has money, but is talking about the politics of not having money? Of having a morally decayed government and political systems...when they can see that this man has absolutely no morals at all.
Russell Brand is no better than the political systems he is having a pop at.
Do you think that they won't see the cynical ploy that he is using to manipulate his audience, the media and anyone who plugs into this......?
I think there are many young people out there who are smarter than you give them credit for...or is that just my vain hope?
They may be interested in the things you have cited, but these may not be their only interests.
So Guinness, I guess you are right...we are never going to agree tha Russell Brand is a champion of the people...now I'm just going to go and have another of my anti-cynicism pills...it seems like the last one is wearing off right now:)

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Voting should be compulsory - with a box on the ballot paper for 'none of the above'.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

voting should not be cmpulsary

what should happen is if that there is a less than %75 turn out atteh polling station every single MP should be dragged out to the side of the Themes and shot in the head and a fresh lot put in to see how they manage to inspire the electorate to vote

soon weed out them in it for themselves and them in it to do good for the country

maybe thats a little harsh and it could be done per sonstituancy so that them that perform well can keep alive and only weed out the poor performing ones

that wa soff teh top of my head so iv beat brand at coming up with a solution already

all i need now is his millions

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

I have gone along to the polling station and I have written on my ballot paper.
This is just to show that I am not too lazy to go and vote......and that it isn't
apathy on my part......but a lack of suitable candidates that warrant my vote.

If voting were compulsory and there was a space for 'none of the above' I would have no quibble, but to make voting compulsory without that.....well, I would continue to spoil my vote.

I always thought that your vote was secret anyway......so would compulsory voting mean that the authorities could determine how you had voted?

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Have been reading all the comments re compulsory voting and thought I'd put my pennysworth in for what it's worth, even though my comments don't apply to the U.K. Thought you might be interested to know that in Australia voting IS compulsory. If it wasn't there would be a lot of people who wouldn't bother to go to the polling booths because they feel one side is as bad as the other. All promises until they get in and then.....
At the last Federal Election quite a number of disillusioned voters tended to vote for alternative parties as a protest. Bit of a shambles. Have to vote or pay a fine, not very democratic.
Compulsory voting doesn't make for a better Government. Maybe if it wasn't compulsory here then politicians would have to really prove themselves to warrant receiving votes from an otherwise disillusioned public.
Btw, voting is not compulsory re Local Government and not many people bother to vote - even though Councils send out voting papers complete with a reply paid envelope. The result is a bit pathetic really.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

If voting changed anything they abolish it:rolleyes:

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

John, I have been saying that for more years that I care to think about.
We are only allowed to vote to let us think we have some influence over how the country is run - oh yes, and if it all goes horribly wrong then those in government have a 'patsy' to blame - us!

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Dotti - what happens if you turn up to vote and just put your voting slip in the box without marking your choice - or if you spoil your paper by writing 'none of the above' on it...do you still get fined?

If you do then this means that the vote is not secret........and this is a crime against democracy. No-one should be able to tell who voted in which particular way.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Whether it's compulsory or not, I was under the impression voting was secret regarding your choice of party/candidate, but the way they can tell if you'd voted was by your being checked off on the electoral role.?

Like I say, that's my understanding of the system in UK. Having lived in Germany for the last near on 30 years my information may be wrong. :idunno:

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Yes they do check your name off the roll, but they are not supposed to know what you have done on your ballot paper, though someone once told me that if they really wanted to know how you voted they could find out....though I don't know how they would go about this.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Ballot papers are numbered, as are the counterfoils they are taken from, I think the number is written against your name when you vote.

It is possible to check what you voted, though I doubt they actually do.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

I think they are both wrong.
You get some people who can't be bothered. You get some people who vote based on tradition, others who change "sides" routinely because they don't feel any traditional attachment. You get some whose contribution to the campaign is an A4 poster in their window or a sign outside their house, while others campaign furiously for a particular party actually visiting you at your door to see what issues you will be voting on.

Sorry if I missed anyone out - but I think that pretty much covers everyone (Lords, convicts, election fraudsters, foreigners and people under 18 can't vote). They are all ultimately responsible for who gets into power - even the ones who don't vote.

I'm always entertained by people who say "It's not my fault, I voted for the other guy" when in reality it's just as much their fault as anyone else. If they really disliked the politician who eventually got in, they would have made an active effort to educate others about how bad he is.

Actually you are, it's just he's using a camera while you're using a keyboard; and your audience is a bit smaller. ;)

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

I take your point Studio25......but have you ever tried to educate someone who has a firm belief that the chap or party they support is the only one suitable.......that they might be better looking at someone else?
It is nearly impossible to change the views of a dyed in the wool political supporter, and that is one of the reasons that the solution offered by Russell Brand is both implausible and unworkable. You only have to look at the numbers of people who attend the conferences of each political party to see that.

As for me pontificating...I accept your view of that and concede that my influence on the subject is about as much as a gnat bite on an elephants bum......so little that is practically unnoticeable.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

The irony is that many politicians who rail against "thatcherite yuppie capitalism" have views on other subjects that would see them castigated as "bleeding heart PC liberals" on here.

Many Accywebbers seem to be searching for something that doesn't exist - politicians with left wing socialist views on the NHS, renationalising the public utilities, bringing the bankers to heel etc and right wing Tory/UKIP views on immigration, law and order, the EU etc. There's no such political animal and I doubt there ever will be.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

While that political animal might not exist...a bit of honesty and integrity among our political leaders would not go amiss...and would mean that there would be less cynicism about their aims.
I am not five years old...and don't expect to be treated like one......I want to see a politican who knows and understands the difficulties of life today...someone who has done a real job of work, got their hands dirty in the pursuit of putting bread on the table for their family...not these career politicians who think they know what is good for us.
How on earth can they know what is good for us unless they have lived something which approximates to a working life?

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

I thought that Graham Jones fit this bill...but it appears that he doesn't.
Maybe he has forgotten his roots and his background, now he is down in the big city.
Maybe he has had his head turned.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

My mates and I sorted all this out over the table at the pub the other night. The only solution that we agreed could work (after three pints) was a voting system where the policy drives the vote - but nobody in power would ever allow it to happen. Basically, you are no longer voting for a party or individual, and grouped with the people who live near you. Potential MPs publish an individual stance on a list of policies, and voters put those same policies in order of preference. Whichever politician most closely matches the voters' manifesto becomes PM.

Everything else can stay the same the same - except that if a politician lies and votes contrary to their own manifesto, they get shot at by the Duke of Edinburgh and only allowed to remain in politics if they survive. (You can tell we'd had that third beer by now.) You can tell in advance which politicians are shady because they will go on a crash diet to make them harder to hit.

Obviously the idea would need tweaking - such as whether to use a shotgun or a rifle, but for an alcohol-influenced political reformation, it wasn't too bad.

I wouldn't go that far: I read your entire post, I didn't watch any of the Russell Brand video (I can't stand him - I just picked up on what he said based on the comments here and Robert Webb's response). So your opinion has had far more influence on me than his.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Studio25...I would have loved to be at that gathering..just reading about it made me chuckle.
I can mentally picture the D of E taking potshots at the lying MP's...and if he can hit a flying bird thenhe would be sure to hit a few of those(MP's).
I cannot stand Russell Brand either, but had he said something which I felt I could tune into(something that wasn't purely a cynical Google Page Ranking stunt to keep him in the public eye)...I would have said so.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Oh...and I am surprised at my influence...no-one else listens to me :D

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

In answer to your question, Margaret, once they have checked off your name from the Electoral Roll (and asked you if you have voted anywhere else that day - as if once isn't enough!!!!) it is up to the voter to write what he/she likes on the paper. You don't have to show any identification, so it is an honesty thing (which is more than can be said of a lot of the politicians). Then you put the papers in closed boxes.
Apparently there are some very funny - and yes, some very rude - things written on the voting papers at times, as you can imagine. Of course this makes that vote null and void.
I did once just put a line through the lot of them as I was so fed-up with all parties and I went home feeling right chuffed with myself. But after I had given it some thought I realised that no-one would know of my little protest except me. So what was the point. Now I do try to vote properly.
Compulsory or otherwise - doesn't improve the way the Country is run.....

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Thanks Dotti....the process is much like here then.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Somebody would have to go to a lot of trouble to find out how you vote and it would be illegal Margaret, they only cross your name of on the register to make sure you don't vote twice, after the count the ballot papers are bungled and then stored, for a period of time, maybe one of our councilors can shed more light on this, its a long time since I was involved, but that's how I remember it.

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Only argument I have with this is..it's not just Accywebbers, it's the whole damn world thats looking for this kind of politician.

We all want socialism that looks after the unfortunates, we all want the capitalism that rewards diligence and hard work, we all want to be protected from fire and crime. We all want a health service that sorts us out when we are ill and not a single one of us minds paying for it through taxation as long as the people that run it are careful and shrewd enough to do their job. We want to be able to switch on our fires, lights and taps without worrying about being overcharged.

There are politicians who think like this. Most are consigned to the back benches and not taken seriously under our crappy system of jobs for the boys, in ALL parties.

But ultimately when you think about it, its gotta be us who are at fault..we all remember Ken Hargreaves with fondness as a man of the people, who stood up to Thatcher, we remember because he was our MP..but how many remember the name of the tory MP who resigned because the EU referendum vote failed last year? (The one where our MP stood with a horsewhip forcing other MP's to vote the way the boss wanted, which was against us), I don't remember his name..even though I watched the whole debacle on Parliament TV, I even watched his impassioned speech and his resignation threat..but I don't remember his name.

I don't remember the name of the guy who voted the way I wanted, but I know the name of the guy who opposed what I wanted....and I bet most of you are the same...why is that?

Re: Russell Brand champion of the people?
 

Maybe it is so that we don't make the mistake of voting for him again.