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NHS criminal neglect proposals
Two threads started in two days, I must have too much time on my hands!
Does anyone else have mixed feelings on this? Health service workers seem to be the whipping boys(and girls) whenever things go pear shaped. Should criminal charges also be brought perhaps against the administrators and even politicians:eek: who put them in such untenable positions? Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the side of those who mess up and cover up but it always seems that there's a bullet proof ceiling with regards to high profile cases implying neglect. I always wonder just how high the brown stuff has to rise before those who make a lot of decisions, that determine the systematic failure of various infrastructures, get their shoes smelly |
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Too many administrators in my mind in the NHS.
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Did you follow and of the hacking stuff on the TV and watch them interview Murdoch for corporate neglect or whatever they call it. Trying to say that the man right at the top should know what those at the bottom are doing. I agree to a point but the top dog can't be expected to know what everyone is doing, they put others in place to share that responsibilty
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Maybe so Neil, but I believe that organisations evolve in a model influenced by the very top. Drive and ruthlessness in a leader are picked up by subordinates, similarly economy at the cost of quality can be contagious throughout management structures. Was it Harry S Truman whose desk bore the legend "The buck stops here" ?
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i think its criminal we have nurses and doctors walking dead on their feet because government keeps making cuts after cuts while shoveling crap loads of money to other countries healthcare
havnt we just paid for some countries first launch into space to mars or something.From what i recall the cost of launching the rocket into space was practically the amount we sent to them in aid i think it was India but to be fair to India they did try giving us the money back but cameron wouldnt allow it to be returned and next year he wants to send even more |
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well said accyman
what happened in mid staffs was diabolical, we now.have several new reports we have to work under, namely the keogh and francis reports (google them). The CEO's wont have ever walked a ward in their lives, they dont have a clue, the government dont give a flying one, we are down on resources in most parts of our hospital yet we still have to take the crap that is thrown at us via patients and relatives because we dont immediately have what they want, we often get comments like ' this hospital is crap, the papers where right', none of the wards stand a chance, mid staffs has tarred us all with the same brush and its not right, most of us do a blinking good job and take pride in our work, please dont go in to hospital with negative thoughts thanx to the press, most of us do care |
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The NHS is guilty by association.
Most people go to be a nurse because they want to help people. They don't do it because wages are good, or the working conditions are great.....because they aren't. I can identify with what you say, from my own working days, but have seen recently that there are less available resources than there were when I was working(and it was tough back then). There are too many expensive administrators. Their wages would pay for more hands on carers, and That is really what is needed, well that and a healthier attitude to whistleblowers. |
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they dont have clipboards anymore John, they have ipads now
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Edit: Staffing is a particular problem because nobody knows from one day to the next how ill people will be. They don't want a ward with seven staff doing the work of three people because it's quiet. So instead they "bare bone" it and maintain three staff and try to build up the team when it's busy. With my system, there would be plenty of nonessential administrative work that can be completed on these "quiet" days. |
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I have spent a lot of time in and around hospital this year.
I cannot recall a single day where the staff were not run off their feet....this was on a surgical ward with some very poorly patients. Patients with urgent and complex needs. When I was in charge of my own ward I would use my own staff flexibly to cope with unexpected occurrences , but this is only possible if you have adequate staff to start off with. Also you need staff who can and are willing to work flexibly, and this was fully discussed at interview. |
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2, admin work is 80% of every nurses, auxilliarys, ward clerks, domestics, doctors, physio's, occupational therapists, consultants, security guards, porters job, so there is no way of cutting back on it, however much you would like to everytime i so much as touch a patient i have to write it down, we have charts for turning people, charts for what implements we use to turn them, lift them or move them, we have to write down if the bed is static or not, if they have sat in the chair at all, how much and what they have eaten in a day, fluid intake and output, diet requirements, moving and handling requirements, bowel movements, mobility, if they have any blanching to pressure points, then there's the obs....usually hourly ones that need to be wrote down, when a patient leaves we clean the patients area from top to bottom, we have to fill in an A4 bed check list to make sure everything is suitable for the next patient...then there is the cleaning of equipment we use...we have to write down when we have used and cleaned the hoists, commodes etc and thats just the admin that us auxilliaries do....nurses have 2/3 times more admin duties to do aswell as looking after every single patient on the ward, so next time you reckon you can 'fix' the NHS, studio, please think again....oh and next time you or a family member has to go to hospital, just take a second to think about how much crap the staff already have to put up with...before you think there is a quick fix to things |
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Shaz, I know what you are saying, but I think(and I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong) that what Studio meant wasn't the administrative duties that staff at the sharp end deal with, that is always going to be there(and it is important to realise if it isn't documented, that it is as good as never having been done - you have to have proof in the case of an incident)
I think that what Studio meant was the staff whose jobs are purely administrative...those highly paid top of the tree managers...those who have offices in Tower View,(or that is where they used to hang out) who issue orders without having any idea as to the implications those orders will have on the workers who are already flat out. When I was there visiting my daughter earlier this year, I did see Lyn Wissett doing a walk around the ward.....she is the chief nurse at RBH. Back when I worked at QPH(for that was what it was then,) the Chief Exec used to work for a week on the wards every year. He said he learned more about what was going on than at any other time. There is no quick fix. You cannot run the NHS without spending money on staff. Looking after patients is a labour intensive job...cutting staff is not economic in the long run. |
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Yep Margaret that is spot on. My theory is that if you can have twice as many medical staff on the ward, they will halve their stress (probably more than that because there's no reason why economies of scale shouldn't work in a hospital). It's the same reason they avoid having open beds.
My most controversial plan is the opposite of the action that prompted the thread in the first place. I'm not sure if it's even legal to make NHS practitioners exempt from liability claims, but that's the sort of thing I'm aiming for. We live in a blame culture, and it's getting worse. We need to tackle it. Look around you - doesn't matter what your job is, just look at your immediate surroundings and assess how many truly incompetent people you meet on a day-to-day basis. It's not many. So why are the gifted and capable workers subjected to so much ass-covering on the assumption that they are going to get sued? |
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I also think it has to be made easier for whistle blowers.
When I was at QPH we had a consultant working with us who was, well let's say...not very good(on a number of levels) When Nursing staff expressed concerns we were left in no doubt that if we were to report things, that our job would be on the line. OK, it wasn't said in so many words, but it was implied in a very intimidating fashion. In the end, action had to be taken, this person no longer works in the trust, but it took a long time and a lot of effort to sort out, and a lot of nursing staff were worried for their patients and also for their own careers. |
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Barry, the ward i work in is a specialist ward, its a very very busy ward, but it is a very rewarding job and i love it
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Barrie, it is supposed to be of the same standard.
I can remember being co-opted onto a Benchmarking scheme(being me, I was quite cynical about what outcomes we could achieve, but we had some very good end results). This was supposed to look at areas in a patients hospital journey and we'd meet to determine best practices and by sharing these. We were supposed to improve the experience each patient had. This was over 11 years ago now. I'm not sure if it is still going, but it was a very valuable tool because different disciplines rarely share their good working practices. It sounds to me like you haven't had the best experience of the hospital. If this is the case then you need to put you concerns in writing so that they can be dealt with The Patient Advisory Liason Service(PALS for short) can help you with this. here is a link which you might find helpful. Patient Advice and Liason Service (PALS) |
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At the end of the day the running of a ward is down to the ward sister, I've only ever come across a very poor sister, she ran a very poor ward
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Not any more J - there are "ward managers" and "bed managers" who have limited resources and (unintentionally) ensure that ward sisters work with one hand tied behind their back. I'm sure there are others in the hierarchy, too.
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I was a ward manager.....but this was because I was Senior Sister on my unit.....and I can tell you John that at one time when a sister(even a junior one)requested something......they got it.
This was not the case by the time I left......and things have got much worse in the eleven years since I was at QPH. Ward Sisters have much less influence than at any time in the past. I reckon I worked in the NHS at the very best time. I was allowed to care for patients. |
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