Burn baby
 

Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals :eek:

Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals - Telegraph

Some say abortion is wrong to begin with and if a women can terminate the human life in her womb then they shouldn't give a flying about aborted foetuses being incinerated.I'm holding back on my thoughts (for now).

Some folk say until we start to value human life and stop abortions we have no moral authority on this issue,other say “This practice is totally unacceptable,”.

Im just wondering what you folk think.

re: Burn baby
 

I think its a very complex subject,if they were stopped completely, some women would die because of it, no doubt at all about that fact,so how would that be valuing human life?

re: Burn baby
 

Cashy is right, this is a very complicated subject but I think that to lump a woman's, often very difficult & painful decision to have an abortion in with how the health authority have treated the foetus afterwards is wrong - woman have abortions for all sorts of reasons & I would imagine very few do it without considerable thought & agonising over it so to say that because she has made that decision she has no right to protest over what has happened afterwards does not make any sense at all.
Can I also just say that the title of this thread could have been given more thought by the starter considering the sensitivity of the subject

re: Burn baby
 

I have the great good fortune to live in a country where, for most folks, abortion is a non issue. Not too much bs about the "rights of the unborn". We don't even have an abortion law. The question has been settled. It's about a woman's right to have access to a safe medical procedure paid for by the health care systems in the individual provinces, funded by tax transfers from the Federal Government and Provincial income taxes. This, in my opinion, is how it should be. Come to think of it; it's none of my goddam business, it concerns only a woman and her physician. Doctors are not forced to perform abortions, and some hospitals, the Hotel Dieu in Kingston for example, won't allow them ... go figure, eh.

Sure, we still have a bunch of placard waving Kevins who protest on Parliament Hill; but they make noise, and go away largely ignored. But, rather than worry about "the unborn" we should maybe give some thought to the thousands of kids who will starve to death today.

re: Burn baby
 

a relative of mine who uses the same doctor as me (they just so happen to all be born again christians at that practice) went and asked the doc if she could have an abortion, he said no....who gives him the right to decide? he wouldnt even make an appointment for her at gyne, she had to ring the hospital and plead her case

Burn baby burn
 

Well, for some reason I haven't been able to open the link will try again later.
I do find it unimaginable however, surely it is not for heat but for practical disposal.
I bet as well as these, there are the arms/legs of amputees, diseased kidneys and sundry other items of flesh that have to be burnt for safe disease free disposal.
Leave the women that for their own tragic reason go down this road alone.
Remember the fact that a miscarriage is also an abortion.
What do they do in summer? Store everything until it's chilly?
Of course not. They are just disposing of someone's misfortune.

re: Burn baby
 

on the opposite side of things i have an appointment tomorrow at the hospital to TRY and ask them if i can be sterilsed, because i am 38 and only have 1 child my doctor seems to think i dont stand a chance of being 'allowed' to get it done, the fact that i havent popped out a dozen more kids in the last 18 years may just go against me, i havent been pregnant in the last 18 years by choice, the choice NOT to have any more children...and i certainly dont want to start again at my age, i have a great job and a great life....i dont want to be worrying about getting pregnant for the next 15 or so years

my life .... or does it belong to the doctors?

re: Burn baby
 

Kingston General has a women's clinic ... from what I understand, a woman doesn't have to "plead her case" ... she just phones them. Two important points: "Open to all women". "No age of consent."


Kingston General Hospital, Women's Clinic

re: Burn baby
 

You are right Less, some hospitals have combined heat and power systems where the heat from everything they incinerate is used to produce heat or electricity. From a practical point of view it is obviously a good idea and as you said lots of body parts will end up in there. The story is just typical newspaper sensationalism and until they dragged it up most people in the terrible situation of miscarrying or having a termination don't ask what happens to the remains.

A health minister has jumped on the band wagon and has said it's totally unacceptable and has stopped it - must be election time.

Just got to the end of the story and this is the story on Dispatches tonight on Channel 4 at 8pm.

I might try and watch it tonight.

re: Burn baby
 

I feel the act of incinerating an already dead fetus shouldn't mean that much IMHO.As some of you may of gathered, I don't hold much if 'any' religious belief's (I'll leave that to Kevin an his tribe).

When is a fetus legally/medically deemed to be a human life?
To be honest I'm not sure point a fetus becomes a human life,you could argue at conception,although even sperm & egg's could be deemed life. :confused:
Personally it would be when the fetus begins to take shape of a human-like form.
I do think the ultimate choice & decision to have an abortion is for the pregnant woman, and it's sod all to do with anyone else (Dr included).

I hope everyone can agree that once a fetus takes on a "human-like form", abortion just isn't right?

Like Jeremy Kyle,I believe Education, and prevention is the key,though there are sometimes circumstances beyond our control, rape is one such example.

I believe there is also a (bigger) issue of parents being lied to saying things like "remains are cremated",No mention of them heating hospitals from their incinerators.:eek:
Stop NHS 'burning babies' says Amanda Holden: Hospitals heated wards with fetal remains - parents thought they were cremated - Mirror Online

Also i'm sorry if the title of the thread seemed a little insensitive (that's just me sometimes), you've a good point though.:o

re: Burn baby
 

Er no ... and more to the point, for Canadian women, neither does the Supreme Court of Canada:


R. v. Morgentaler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The first paragraph says it all ... those particularly interested in how we do things over here may be interested in the details.

re: Burn baby
 

They weren't lied to though were they.

re: Burn baby
 

Right! Now here is what happens in our local area.
Any aborted foetal material goes to the local crematoria and is given a dignified cremation.Even babies who were aborted for social reasons were treated in the same way.
That is of course after any histopathology specimens are looked at(for whatever reason).
The remains of foetuses are treated with the greatest respect by nursing and medical staff. How do I know this...because I was on a steering committee to make sure that this happened.
It was one of my areas of work.

And before anyone gets het up about sensationalising this subject. It is something that only the woman concerned can make a decision about....and sometimes it will be the hardest decision she will ever make.
Many go on to have serious issues after the event, though some do not.
Termination of a pregnancy is done for many reasons. Some women are unfortunate to be in the situation of having to undergo this procedure when the baby they carry is much wanted(abnormalities, genetic conditions)
I notice it is a man who started this thread...and he tell us he is holding back his thoughts (for now).
When I was #sister in charge of the Gynae Unit at what was then QPH all parents were given honest information about what was to happen to the remains of their baby. They were given opportunities to make an entry in the book of remembrance, they were told the date that their baby was being cremated and that this would be done at the Crematorium at Pleasington. Those who wanted pastoral care were given it. All parents were told about the service of Remembrance at St Josephs Church in Blackburn each October.....they were told that whatever their faith was they would be welcome to attend...and even if they did not attend a candle would be lit for their baby.

While I was at QPH we also had a memorial garden with areas for quiet contemplation.
We had a sculptor make a very tasteful wood carving.
I feel that we gave the parents a good service.

In early termination of pregnancy now - the medical version, it is very likely that any products of conception go down the toilet and are flushed away.

re: Burn baby
 

And I would just like to say this thread is insensitive.
There may be women reading this now who have had to go through this procedure and are now having to face your judgemental attitude.
There may be women who have had to endure this and were told truthfully what happens - you may have caused them grief because now they are face with the possibility that what they were told isn't true...how painful is that at a time when they already feel bad?

Re: Burn baby
 

We've sort of been here before,

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ium-56620.html

Burn baby
 

Without quoting your long but valid posts #13 & #14, please don't think all men are insensitive, as you already know I have an attitude that is just a touch anti female, that does not mean that I or any other thinking man would force a woman to have to go to full term, or to have a termination unless she decides what is right for her.

Some of us will even support her afterwards when she starts having regrets, or whatever she may go through.

Re: Burn baby
 

I read the link. One reason I did was to find out who Amanda Holden is. A goddam tv personality:eek: What next? Wayne Rooney's take on the ongoing crisis in the Ukraine? Sheesh.:rolleyes:

Burn baby
 

Is she? Well I hope she has big boobs and a squeaky voice with a slight juvenile lisp, then I can disregard her completely.
(Blond hair optional, but if it's dyed she must appear on screen with at least a fortnights worth of natural colour showing at the roots).

Re: Burn baby
 

iv occassionally snogged girls round the back of the crematorium when i was younger because it was warmer

dont see any difference between using someones granny to heat up my lustfull evenings and burning medical waste to keep the ill warm

sounds worse when you say burning babies to heat hospitals but either way they are going to be burned one way or another and i doubt they are chucking 8 month developed still born babies in there just the what are classed as not developed fetus's that are legally deemed undeveloped and lawfully terminated

Re: Burn baby
 

Less, nowhere have I made that suggestion....and yes not all men are the same. I wasn't referring to that as much as the insensitive way that this topic has been posted.

In my work I came across all shades of men(and I mean that in the emotional sense, not racist).
The men whose wives had to have termination of pregnancy for other than social reasons were often just as emotional as their wives.
And I agree that it is no-ones choice but that of the woman in question.

Re: Burn baby
 

Gotta agree Margaret not only the headline post on here from AccyX but the inflamatory attention grabbing headlines created by more than one newspaper.
I am sure the primary reason for using hospital incinerators was for disposal and not for heating purposes. I also think that grieving parents were/are given the opportunity to make their own arrangements as fits their religion and feelings.

AccyX you need to be a bit less selective in your reading matter.


oops just seen Neil has made similar points on disposal... I too need to be maybe a bit less selective.

Re: Burn baby
 

It is a long long time since such material was incinerated at hospitals.
Many hospitals choose Clinical disposal units/ companies to deal with what is termed 'clinical waste'.

In our area, that would have been White Rose at Bolton. But for many years now, and as a result of much campaigning by myself and others on the steering committee, it has been the policy to deal with foetal remains and babies in a sensitive manner.

And you are right. Where parents wanted to do this for themselves, they were allowed to do so and given information to help them to do this. In Blackburn the Co-op Funeral Services were a mainstay for grieving parents.
Babies were cremated at no cost to the parents. If the parents wanted a burial then obviously that could not be done at no cost, but the Co-op made no profit on these funerals.

I am not sure if the Co-op still run this service as I have been retired now for 12 years.
I feel it would be very difficult(for the local hospital) to back pedal on the other sensitive arrangements for the disposal of babies remains.
I know the book of remembrance still exists. It is in the Spiritual Centre near C10 at RBH.

I spent many many hours doing the entries into this book and also provided parents with a copy of the entry, because I know there are times when the grief is so raw that you find it impossible to go and visit the book to look at the entry.

Re: Burn baby
 

This thread was (another) (half baked) 'insensitive', over reaction on my behalf :o

All the hospitals are doing is recouping some of the waste heat,rather than just sending it up the chimney.
Anyway I apologise again if my insensitivity has caused anyone any (unintended) misery.

Re: Burn baby
 

As I have mentioned, all you have to do is think before you post, that way you won't have to apologise.
:)

Re: Burn baby
 

Our local hospital does no incineration of clinical waste.

It was an ill conceived thread, but it was generated by sensationalist media hype.(remember that the media only want to sell papers and the celebs only want to be noticed and be in the public eye - it doesn't really matter to them what it is about)

It would be good if next time you are tempted to post along similar lines that perhaps you ask questions(e.g Have you ever had an experience like this?) and phrase your posts a bit more sensitively(ask yourself if you or a relative of yours were in this situation - how would you feel?)
However, it takes strength to come on here and admit your errors...and apologise.
Well done on that count.

Re: Burn baby
 

It's what newspapers do but they were only reporting on a Dispatches TV program due to air that night. I suspect the TV people wanted the newspapers to report it in the way they did to promote the TV program

Have you read the comments in the article from the link in the first post of this thread? Some are quite interesting and thought provoking?

Re: Burn baby
 

When I had a conducted tour back stage at Accrington Crematorium the attendant showed me the CCTV camera which is a permanent fixture focused on the very area where you did you dirty deeds.
He obviously didn't show me the film but told me they staff had some good fun watching the evenings performance.
There are a few more CCTV cameras around the place all motion activated and capable of night vision.
You never know, you could be on utube or a similar X rated web site.

Re: Burn baby
 

Did you have to , I am eating :D

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I could not get that link to work for me the other day...but for some strange reason now it does.

The comments show that may people believe what the newspaper article tells them....much as Accyexplorer did.
Having worked in this area(Womens Health) for more than 25 years my colleagues and I invested a lot of time and effort into getting things changed.
I know that not all trusts follow policies of good practice, but there is no reason that they shouldn't.

The topic of termination of pregnancy is emotive, contentious and polarises opinion.
Many people seem to think that a woman will terminate a pregnancy on a whim. This hasn't been my experience of how women deal with the issue.

Re: Burn baby
 

If they are being burned anyway what is the problem of utilizing the heat for a positive out come! It's not as if they are being deliberately killed for that purpose?

Burn baby
 

Yet another unthinking stupid post, I'm amazed, I really didn't think even you could limbo under a snake!

Re: Burn baby
 

Oh i did,it aint surprised me at all.

Re: Burn baby
 

maybe a suggestion to the mods to change the title of this thread ...

Re: Burn baby
 

I thought about earlier but couldn't decide what to change it to. Any suggestions anyone?

Re: Burn baby
 

There's that humour Less,I believe you had a "unthinking stupid post" not so long back on a bowling thread ;)

Re: Burn baby
 

You know I like being educated folks ;),
in your experiences do/have hospitals put parents/partners of miscarriage's in same (waiting etc) area's as parents/partners having abortions?
If so what's your views on this?

Re: Burn baby
 

Nope you're wrong again, I made a comment about what I suspect was a deliberate attempt to bump the thread.
Now that is not to be compared to your many unthinking posts or threads that you have apologised for such as the classic name of this very post Burn baby.

So don't attempt to take the heat off yourself by putting it onto someone else, but do practice with your humour.
:p

Re: Burn baby
 

Re: Burn baby
 

Please do not get me started on this one.

This is another attempt at provoking not just discussion, but serious argument by using what you consider to be an emotive/contentious subject.

I get it. You do not agree with termination of pregnancy - but hey that is fine because you are never going to need one...or want one....but at some point in the future one of your female relatives may (for any number of reasons).

If you want to know the truth about this then I am available to give it to you. But not in this format, on open forum.
My guess is that you really don't want to know, but you are just stirring the pot!

Re: Burn baby
 

Maybe human remains were burnt in the heating furnaces long ago in hospitals but I doubt it very much nowadays.
When was the last time hospital boilers were fed coal by men in mucky vests and sweaty palms where it was possible to throw anything in the fire hole.
It is extremely difficult, I would say impossible, to feed human remains into the pipes which feed the fuel to the oil fired heating boilers they use nowadays.
Some boilers are still heated by coal but it delivered in a tanker. The coal is almost like dust and that too is blown into the fire through tubes and is a sealed system.

We don't know how many other people read this thread and never post on it but hopefully non who have had or contemplating an abortion.

That's my two penneth for what it's worth.

Re: Burn baby
 

It was more than "a comment", but My point is maybe you should partice what you preach :p
I apologised for being insensitive (twice), maybe you could apologise for being a hypocrite. ;)

Re: Burn baby
 

I have nothing to apologise for, I give not a hoot as to how you may interpret what I said, nothing I say is as bad as the things you keep putting on site.
It's a shame over the passed week or so you seemed to settle down, now you are back to being exactly what I described in several other posts, shall we get back to your unfeeling and rather ill thought out thread, 'Burn baby', before you get accused of gross thread wandering.

Re: Burn baby
 

You guess wrong Margaret, I was talking to a (very) close friend about this subject, She had a miscarriage and her partner, as he put it "was put in the same area as those who just couldn't be bothered to use contraception".

I just thought it was a little insensitive on the hospitals behalf and wanted to know if you (especially) but others too have had any similar experiences and yours/their thoughts....forget it though :(

Re: Burn baby
 

Well that just shows your true colours less, you think because you drink with Mick that it give you a licence to come on here and do as you please,even bully new and infrequent users....

Well it doesn't :thefinger:

Re: Burn baby
 

You know nothing about this site do you?

Mick and I have been drinking buddies for many a year and hopefully will continue to raise glasses for years to come.
:rofl38:

Re: Burn baby
 

One hospital has done worse than that. A woman who was recovering from an elective termination (85% chance baby would have been born with a degenerative, terminal condition) was sent for recovery in a ward bay containing three late-term pregnant women and two new mothers.

A letter to the hospital resulted in a promise they would review their procedures.

In that particular case, they could have done more to help someone genuinely distraught at the awful decision they had to make. Maybe the ward staff saw "elective" and assumed it was someone who couldn't keep their knees together, or someone whose career was a priority at that time. I can empathise to a degree with their less than perfect treatment of that patient when their job is to help bring new life into the world, but I've no idea if they could make their value judgements based on the notes because I don't know if the reason for termination ever gets that far.

It was worse than that. Originally he used the refrain from Disco Inferno by the Tramps- with the extra "burn" on the end. Don't know if it was him that changed it, but it's no better now (in my opinion).

I'd call the thread "Morality when disposing of human remains." but then that would spark the debate about when a fœtus becomes a human.

I just think this is all just sensationalism on the part of the journalist. Terminations can be for a variety of reasons, and for some couples it will be a deeply distressing and possibly life-changing trauma. For others it won't bother them too much. The hospital needs to be able to deal with each appropriately and as long as they've got the assessment of the parent(s) right, I don't have a problem with them using existing facilities to cleanly dispose of human body parts or terminations.

Just wait for the next one - "Amputee war heroes' limbs used to heat Camp Bastion"

Re: Burn baby
 

What a heavy thread this is. I think the title could've been thought out better. I need to think about this more rather than stumble a response

Re: Burn baby
 

As I've already said:-
But look around the site, you've made a friend but don't cheer just yet, he is notorious for his disloyalty to others.

Now I think I'll just press the report button...

Re: Burn baby
 

Well said Margaret, I was impressed yesterday when whoever Accy Explorer is apologised for their insensitivity for the original post - I thought maybe some on here had been misjudging him/her but after reading their next 'question' posted earler today, it seems I was wrong - they obviously just love the attention that their comments attract even though most of it is negative - as they say 'there's nowt as queer as folk' :rolleyes:

Re: Burn baby
 

But that would not be right either since there are areas within the NHs which have sensitive arrangements in place.

Re: Burn baby
 

Got to admit I'm suffering just a little '****edoffitus', so here's a bit of site history for you, dthep and anyone else that thinks they are hard done by.

5 or 6 years ago, the site was troubled by people like you, the owner told us he was planning to shut the site down because he didn't think it worth keeping open for the ungrateful returns from putting his own money into the site.

Mick and I worked hard to talk him out of it, he thought about it then decided with a couple of conditions:-

1/ Administrative control would be passed on to Mick.
2/ I was to use what ever talents I had to quash anyone considered a threat to the site.
3/ If either of us left he would close the site down.
4/ If either of us mentioned this on site, he would close the site down.

This isn't because I or Mick are part of a clique, it is because of Mick's proven loyalty to the site and I am his relative and he wants to keep an eye on the site by the family.

Well, now the secret is out, I hope what Roy said all those years ago, was an idle threat, if it isn't well tough on all of you rotten apples, I know there have been many times both I and Mick wanted to throw in the towel but carried on for the sake of the many friends we've made on here, not for the sake of idiots like you two.

We will just have to wait and see what Roy's reaction will be, personally,

to paraphrase Rhett Butler, Frankly my dears I no longer give a damn.'

Are you two and the many others that we have weedled off the site proud of yourselves?

Re: Burn baby
 

Why do you assume that someone who was having a termination of pregnancy'could not be bothered to use contraception'? Do you know this to be the case?
Have you never heard of contraceptive failure...that is not failing to use it, but using it and for some reason, it fails?
A termination of pregnancy has to be sanctioned by two doctors who have to sign that the woman in questions fulfils the criteria of the 1967 Abortion Act. So it isn't just by request.

How did your close friends partner know what any other patient was having done...since the treatment of patients is confidential?

It is not the fault of the NHS if patients wish to talk about what they are having done. Can you imagine if all patients who were having a pregnancy terminated(for whatever reason) went to one designated ward....a ward where no other treatment was performed.

Very soon the community at large would dub this place 'the abortion ward'....so NO woman would be able to keep her treatment confidential.....because if she was going to this ward she could only be having one thing.

When patients go into a gynaecology ward they could be next to someone who is having investigations for infertility, investigations into unexplained bleeding - in fact any number of 'women's' complaints. Only they(and of course the medical team) know what they are having done...unless they choose to discuss it, it is no-one else's business.
Each patient is getting the treatment they need.......and this is being done in an appropriately sensitive manner.
Now that early termination of pregnancy is done by medical means(i.e. tablets) Women who opt for this, only stay in the hosptial for a couple of hours. Many of them will abort at home....and like as not flush the products of conception down the toilet...and give this no thought at all.

Re: Burn baby
 

And one of these days, you might even buy a round;):D

Re: Burn baby
 

I thought folks would have picked up on this as far back as post #10 ... the sentence begins, "I hope everyone can agree ... " Well, he can keep hoping. Over on this side of the pond, it has been decided for years that the rights of women to a safe medical procedure are paramount. In Canada, as I have mentioned, the final word came from our Supreme Court (Regina vs. Morgentaler) ... and even in the God infested U. S. of Eh ... Roe vs Wade ... where the U.S. Supreme Court stated that a woman's right to an abortion was guaranteed under the Ninth and Fourteenth amendments (I'm using memory for this; screw google;)) to the U.S. constitution.

Seems like on this issue, the the Kingdom of Uk is lagging behind the colonies. It appears that we do some things better over here ... playing hockey and shovelling snow come to mind;) Here in Kingston, all a woman has to do is show up at the Women's Clinic (open to all women; no age of consent) where she will receive all the help she needs: medical, psychological, and, if she wishes, spiritual. And then, it's up to her. That's the way it should be.

Re: Burn baby
 

Eric the road to abortion was hard fought over here.
I started on the Gynae ward in October 1977...as a very new staff nurse.
One of the very first ladies I saw almost die, had had a botched abortion.
This despite the fact that abortion had been legal(but still not easy to obtain) for 10 years. Her religion and her shame meant that she couldn't go to her practice (a staunchly catholic doctor) and the receptionist who was known to her family. She felt that the only way out was to get someone (who thought they knew what to do) to do it for her.
She almost paid with her life.......and the surgery she needed, meant that she would never ever have a child of her own.

Terminating a pregnancy is never easy......and it is so easy to be judgemental, when in fact we should be saying 'there but for the grace of.....'

Re: Burn baby
 

Hard fought over here too ... but, for some reason, it suddenly clicked with most Canadians that abortion, and, about the same time, homosexuality were not moral or religious issues but issues of equality and human rights. As soon as we got our Charter of Rights and Freedoms overseen by a non-political Supreme Court, lots of things fell into place. As it is, in Canada, we do not have an "abortion law" ... I guess some of you may find that strange, or even wrong, but most of us are content with it.

Re: Burn baby
 

Did they get it wrong though?

Re: Burn baby
 

I don't think they did.

Re: Burn baby
 

I am sure you will have had women on your ward that you thought the same about.

Re: Burn baby
 

Is it appropriately sensitive to put a lady who has just lost her baby on the same ward as crying newborns?

I know you mean well Margaret but sometimes I do think you are blinkered by your loyalty to your profession and think all is good with the NHS

Re: Burn baby
 

No of course it isn't right that women who have lost a baby are put on a ward with crying babies.
No, Neil. I am not blinkered because I am no longer active in nursing......and I know all is not good with the NHS.
(My daughter has had a very long and serious illness and so I have seen it in close focus, warts and all).
The NHS is hampered by politically motivated box ticking - which gives nothing to the people who use the service......it is top heavy with management. There are other things that need addressing too....but that would make a whole new thread.

Re: Burn baby
 

No, Neil. Every woman had their own reasons and who am I to question them about their decisions?

I can only live my own life. What I would do has no bearing on their decisions.
You cannot be judgemental and give sensitive(good) care.

Re: Burn baby
 

What flashy said about the Doctor made me feel sick.

What the hell gives these religious (insert expletives) people the right to make that decision for any woman?

Is it because of these people that some women have psychological problems later on after an abortion or is there more to it? No woman should be taught that she is evil if she chooses to abort.

It certainly is debatable whether or not there is "life" in that time period where a woman is legally allowed to have an abortion. However IMHO those that think it is murder are just stupid.... Currently I do not have an opinion on how aborted fetuses should be disposed of... This is such a bleak and heavy subject. Just hope any woman that have to go through this kind of decision are not struggling later because of it.


Margaret says it best here. End of the day it is the woman's decision to abort a child.

Re: Burn baby
 

I would never expect you to question them

Re: Burn baby
 

We use the same surgery group and I have no problem with their beliefs as long as I can see someone else if my condition required treatment against there beliefs. They don't make their beliefs a secret and by joining their practice you accept that they are their beliefs even if they are not yours. If you read their home page here they make if totally clear Cornerstone Practices - Home

Here are a couple of quotes from their website that I will of course remove if they wish.

I think they make their views clear and I have always found them to be an excellent practice. After hearing stories of other peoples experiences with Doctors in the area I think we are lucky to have such a good practice.

Re: Burn baby
 

Well it seems they go against their own statement by saying "no you can't" as flashy put it?

Re: Burn baby
 

Neil, they are an excellent practice. I know some of the Doctors from my old nursing days.
And a request for such treatment may not be dealt with by them, but I would expect that they would refer on to someone who was more able to deal with it. That is what usually happens.

Re: Burn baby
 

Doctors and nurses can invoke the conscience clause when dealing with termination of pregnancy.
So they may not acctually be keen to do a referral themselves but should be able to refer the patient to someone else, so that the woman can access treatment.
Family planning clinics will refer and you can visit another GP(other than your own) and ask for emergency treatment.

Re: Burn baby
 

Less, I know I am wandering off this thread a bit (at my age I do a lot of that – ‘wandering off’) but I was very interested in what you said re Roy, Mick and yourself as regards Accrington Web.

Roy must be quite some bloke to finance this, which is for other people’s benefit rather than his own (not many people would do this sort of thing) – many thanks go to him for this. Also many thanks and much appreciation to you, Mick and Neil for keeping it going in the way you do. It must take up a lot of your time (and patience!!!!).

It is such a great forum – so many varied and interesting topics. Unfortunately, while most correspondents to the forum are thinking and caring people and have a lot of interesting points to contribute – and also deliver clever banter to make us chuckle - the odd one manages to sneak in with self-serving comments – maybe on some sort of ego trip.

Let’s hope that Roy continues to be benevolent to those of us who get so much enjoyment out of the forum – and that you, Mick and Neil continue with the good work and keep us on track. Just ignore the ignoramuses amongst us.

Now back to this particular thread – what the heck has this subject to do with Accyexplorer and why would he even have started a thread about it? I find it abhorrent that it was started in a manner that seems to me to be almost light-hearted and gossipy - apologies if I misinterpreted this but there is nothing light-hearted about a woman’s decision to have an abortion.

I find the title of the thread to be insensitive to say the least – written for attention-grabbing as I assume it was.

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Margaret P. I do enjoy reading your postings and comments - you know what you're talking about and make a discussion worth having.

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Except when it comes to cooking:D

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Eric, this is especially for you.....get slavverin'

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:p

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Can we get back on thread thanks

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Sorry Mick...it is Erics Fault :)

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I'm all for that ... just think of it as a little comic relief ... after all, what would "Lear" be without the fool.

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Sounds a little involved and twentieth century-ish ... much easier to pick up the phone and call the local women's clinic, or go to a free-standing clinic.

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That's just how it is Eric. I would guess the the nearest we have to your version of the women's clinic would be what used to be the family planning clinics...now renamed CaSH clinics(Contraception and Sexual Health).
I have tried to do a search about how many there are and when they run the clinics, but Google must know I'm past it...and keeps dropping out(either that or the demand for these services is so hot that their web site is down).

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Come to think of it, that's not good enough for the UK, or for anywhere. If you think beyond the procedure, beyond the "emotiveness" of the issue:rolleyes:, what it boils down to is this: in any country where there is an abortion law, women are being denied equality. For me, that's it, plain and simple.

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Eric, I can see past the emotiveness or I would not have been able to work in such an area for so long.
And to be honest, I think that if a woman really does want this service then she could get it without too much trouble.

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No matter what side of the fence you stand on with this subject I think it is disgusting

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What is disgusting? The burning of fetus's or women having the right to a termination if they need it?
:confused:

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Maybe it's that American thingy ... for some reason lots of them, particularly south of the Mason-Dixon line and in the Bible Belt, can believe in the sanctity of life, the death penalty, and the right to own lethal weapons, and do all this without the slightest awareness of the contradictions. And lots of them want laws which prevent more than half the population from having unfettered access to health care that less than half the population have without without question ... and abortion is, a medical procedure, nothing more, nothing less. I don't see folks marching with placards protesting a male's right to a vasectomy.:rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

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Do you mean the subject of abortion...or the subject of cremating foetal remains...if it is abortion......then
that is fine.
You are entitled to your opinion...and no-one will ever make you have a termination of pregnancy.....but those people who censure women who require this treatment make them have babies that they do not want,cannot care for, tried to prevent(or in the case of genetic abnormalities - make them have handicapped babies/life limited babies).

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The burning of the fetus

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I believe there is still a lot in the UK the think the same way so it is not
"An American Thingy" mainly south of the Mason-Dixon line bible Belt

I am neither Pro Life or Pro Choice I think that is up to the people having to make that important choice themselves

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Well, if you had read my earlier posts you will see that this is done(in our area) at the local crematorium, and in a dignified manner.
It did not used to be done in this way. The foetal remains were sent to a clinical disposal unit for incineration. This was back in the eighties....and it has not been done in this way since.

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What would you suggest the UK does with the products from it's 200,000 terminations each year?

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I was going to point this out. There was also something a few years back about heating a school from a crematorium. I am not against abortion - and some would complain if they were thrown in a hole in the ground - it doesn't matter to them how they are disposed of. The OP is basically being moral about abortion saying it's wrong.

After an abortion what should happen to it Less? What is really wrong with recycling any heat from any incineration? After all the females concerned can't take away the foetus give it away and bury it.

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I know that I haven't posted for a while and this is an emotive thread to post in. I can confirm that Margaret was indeed on the committee to change how we care for women with any kind of foetal loss and how the remains are dealt with. In our local area, this has been done very sensitively for years.

Women who have lost a baby are not put on wards with heavily pregnant women or newborns. If the loss is early (less than 12 weeks), chances are they will either be at home anyway or go home asap. If they are 12-20 weeks they will go home asap, women are given the option to take foetal remains home with them to bury as they wish. Most women don't take up this option but some do. It is not illegal to bury foetal remains on your property, there are some conditions to this in order to protect water supplies and declaring the burial if you sell your house but this option is perfectly legal and available to all women. Anybody over 20 weeks goes to the Birth Suite. They are nursed in a self contained apartment with it's own bathroom, living area/kitchen. This is separate from the rest of the ward and the women who are cared for here rarely complain. Again, women are given the opportunity to take their baby home for a funeral or burial on their property.

If the baby is over 24 weeks this is classed as a stillbirth (even if it's a termination). Women are entitled to a termination at any time if the baby has severe abnormalities that are classed as incompatible with life. Therefore, in these circumstances, a woman can terminate a pregnancy right up until full term. These poor babies rarely survive labour and usually arrive asleep.

The family are cared for in Birth Suite's self contained apartment. They can stay as long as they like, relatives are encouraged to visit. They are given mementos such as a lock of hair, photographs, hand and footprints. We also do this for any baby from about 18 weeks to full term. If the baby is over 24 weeks, the birth needs to be registered (even if it's a termination), until registration a funeral or any other form of disposal cannot be legally arranged.

Whatever the gestation or circumstances we try to treat our women and their families with respect. They are given choices around their care, disposal of remains, aftercare and ongoing family planning. This is done as sensitively as possible and a lot of staff have worked very hard over the last 20 years to ensure that we have the best possible standards locally.

I hope that this post has clarified a few issues and maybe answered a few questions about what happens now. I cannot guarantee that other areas of the country follow the guidelines which we use locally.

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Lettie, thank you for confirming what I have already posted.
It is always good to have another person confirm what I am saying is true.
I know that when we were thrashing out the details of how we went about treating Foetal loss with sensitivity, there were other areas who wanted to see how we had done this. And some hospitals requested our protocols...so maybe our influence went out into the wider world. I would truly hope so.
Personally I think we were well ahead of our time with what we did...but then I would say that wouldn't I? :)

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Agree with you on this - problem with the human race - many are prepared to cause serious harm to other people out of their beliefs in some fantasy character/belief system - that there is no evidence for.

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Charles Darwin was a Christian and what puzzled him was "why did God create a world with so much waste?"