Value for money?
 

Two old pickup trucks- £6000?
Two mounted machine guns- £6000?
One old transport truck- £3000?
One mortar bomb launcher- £3000?
A few IS sadists( perhaps 10?)- no value, they come free.

Total value- £24,000?

5 Brimstone missiles- £875,000
One Paveway bomb- £50,000
4 Tornado sorties,
4 hours each, £50000/hour- £800,000
Refueller aircraft, 2 trips- £150,000?

Total cost- £1,875,000

That's our balance for this week I think.

Now there's value for money! Does it really need a £175,000 missile to take an old Toyota Hilux(or whatever) out of service? What happened to cannons and machine guns?

Never mind, if we got ten there's only 29,980 of them left- now what will that add up to??

Re: Value for money?
 

We don't want to fight; but, by jingo, if we do etc. ... come to think of it, according to your government (and ours), times is tough ... we have to tighten our belts, suck it up etc ... and pay for military adventures out of borrowing. The ensuing debt, of course, will be loaded onto the already overburdened backs of the already poor. Don't look for increased taxes for the top one per cent, or for major corporations.

The essence of military conflict has remained constant, even in these days of drones, smart bombs, and whatever ... the only way to succeed, as Basil Liddell Hart pointed out in "Strategy" (a great read by the way) is for infantry to occupy ground and to hold it. "Boots on the ground" ... cheaper and more effective. Downside is that those boots are worn by brave men and women who will be putting their lives on the line because Bush and Blair [deleted] up when they destroyed Iraq.

Re: Value for money?
 

The only value fer money is NUKE em, simple as far as i'm concerned, WW2 the Japs thought dying was n honour and refused to quit, 2 Atom bombs later conflict ended, not rocket science.

Re: Value for money?
 

War (number one business) is just a monetary sinkhole,and to think we could spend it in healthcare,education etc :rolleyes:

Re: Value for money?
 

Most are aware of that fact, So whats yer idea spend it on healthcare n let these savages carry on regardless?:rolleyes:

Re: Value for money?
 

No, what I'm saying is a bigger portion of the 'ridiculous budget' that is spent on war could be better spent in other areas such as health and education.

Re: Value for money?
 

What value do you put on a soldiers life?
We use missiles and bombs so we don't have to send in men, men who could have lost their lives destroying the equipment you listed.
Does it still look like a lot of money or would you have preferred a few squaddies died if it cost less?
What is the cost per man per day when deployed in the field?

Re: Value for money?
 

That wasn't my point. I'm against any of our people going back into Iraq. We trained their army who now run away as soon as they get shot at- it's up to them to sort out the ground forces.

My point was why are we using 21 Century £175,000 missiles, designed to take out massed tank formations moving up to 70mph,which can be fired from 7 miles away from 20,000 feet, to hit a stationary pickup truck?
And why on Earth did we need 4 of them to take out 2 pickup trucks?

The Tornadoes carry the Mauser 27mm cannon-each shell over 1 inch across, 1700 fired per minute, 4 kg of them fired in 1 second. Wouldn't they do the job?

You can't avoid the cost of the flights but this isn't using a sledgehammer for a nut- it's using a 500 ton press. Before we know it we'll be running out of missiles just like we did in Libya!

Re: Value for money?
 

Wouldn`t using missiles be much more accurate, therefore reducing the risk of collateral damage?

Re: Value for money?
 

The videos appeared to show them on their own in the desert so any collateral damage would probably have been IS members.

Any innocent civilians who hang around an IS truck are asking for problems. If the Tornados didn't get them the IS certainly would,going on past performance.

Re: Value for money?
 

You have to get closer using cannon so put the pilot and plane closer to the enemy who might get lucky and shoot it down

Re: Value for money?
 

Wouldn't a couple of drones have been good enough for that type of job?

Surely more cost effective and just as accurate.

Re: Value for money?
 

Problem with this line of argument is that it seems to be based on a naive assumption that money saved on military adventures will be spent on "healthcare, education etc." Don't hold your breath ... it won't be. There are other, more pressing, and more ideological destinations for the money ... paying down the debt, filling the political and corporate trough ... lotsa good stuff.

Re: Value for money?
 

True.

True but the Tornadoes are flying from Cyprus,our nearest base now we don't have a carrier or any planes to fly off it.
I doubt we have any drones based in Cyprus yet, they were being used in Afghanistan.But their Hellfire missiles are only about £50,000 each so a bit more cost effective.

Re: Value for money?
 

I think seeing a couple of Tornadoes coming screaming overhead then seeing everything around you explode has a bigger impact mentally than a drone slowly wandering past blowing up your truck.

Re: Value for money?
 

The Tornados were intended for use in a missile rich environment - European Eastern Bloc where . When used in Iraq (which was not classed as being a missile rich environment), at low level the unsuitability for low level action was demonstrated in that it was very susceptible to AAA and shoulder fired missiles.
Firing A-G missiles or laser guided bombs keep the aircraft out of range of AAA and Stingers etc.

Re: Value for money?
 

The trucks have zero value as an enemy asset. They are too easily replaced. The guns, mortars and IS personnel have a estimable value, because it can be guessed how many lives have been saved by removing them from the picture.

Don't forget that bombs and missiles have a use-by date. Once that gets reached, they have depreciated to nothing in value, so the purchase price isn't really what a munition is worth unless it's still new in its box. Ed Macy wrote Apache in which he went through his experience as an attack helicopter pilot in Afghanistan. At one point on RTB from a combat mission, he realises he's giong to be in trouble from the quartermaster because he fired off the wrong missiles, releasing new ones from the rail instead of the ones that had been out on a few missions and returned unused.

Re: Value for money?
 

Whatever happened to napalm? It's cheap ... and smells like victory;)

Re: Value for money?
 

Especially in the morning:D

Re: Value for money?
 

The Tornados are - I believe, using UK ordnance, the more they fire the more jobs for the boys:-)