UKIP win a seat.
 

Seeing UKIP have now got a voice in the house, It amuses me to listen to the tripe the tories are spouting big time, Saying a vote fer UKIP is a vote fer labour, never heard more pathetic tripe in me life.:rolleyes: The question the big two SHOULD be asking is WHY people are voting UKIP. Its cos people are fed up to the back teeth of the lies n crap spouted by em, I and many of me mates have voted Labour all our lives, and are now voting UKIP, how is that putting Milliband in?:rolleyes: Unless these pillocks address the real reasons, i can personally see UKIP ending up wi more seats than the idiotic Lib Dems come the next election. They only just lost in heywood by 617 votes n that was a safe labour seat, I hope the big 2 are crapping themselves, yeh only get outa life what yeh deserve in the long run imho.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

The Clacton bye election was caused by Douglas Carswells defection from the tory party...so in essence nothing has changed...just the banner the man travels under
He has a strong reputation there and many people voted for him not because he is UKIP, but because they know he has their interests at heart......he listens to them. He is well liked in that area.

As far as voting for UKIP in a general election...well some people will do it just to give the other parties a fat lip....but they have not got any kind of manifesto......they are a one trick pony.
We haven't got a clue(because they haven't told us of their strategies) how they would manage welfare, the economy or other important issues......we only know that they would stop those with HIV from coming into the country.

I can see where voting for UKIP would give Labour a seat......it dilutes the vote for other parties...all of them.
That is not to say that they would not be in a position to cosy up to whoever does win the next general election.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Cashy, there are only so many votes to go around......the more parties there are on the ballot sheet, then the more the vote for the major parties is diluted.

Low turnouts also affect the results...that may seem obvious, but the turnout in the two bye elections was below 40%......only two fifths of those entitled to vote actually did so...that means that although the person who won got a majority, it also means that he doesn't engage with three fifths(the majority) of the electorate.

This disillusionment with politics is rife......and I think it can be squarely laid upon the shoulders of politicians in the past.......they told lies(as always)they took money from the public purse that they were not entitled to...they sold out our sovereignty to the pack in Brussels...they promised we could have a say in whether we stayed in Europe.

It is going to take a lot of reform, a lot of work to get people to engage in politics again, because those who have a vote feel that which ever way they cast it, it won't make a jot of difference to their own lives. Because politicians say one thing when they want your vote, but do something entirely different once they have got your vote...they toe the party line.
We have seen this and know this to be true.
I can't think of any current politician who is worth me putting my cross on a ballot paper.
Politicians are all the same...no matter which party banner they trade under.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I know UKIP will never actually win n election, as do most folk i imagine, but if it makes the clowns actually perform in the circus its well worth frightening em i think.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Let's think about this one for a second ... ok done ... One of the major complaints voiced on here, and in all parliamentary democracies for that matter, is that manifestos, platforms, ... call 'em whatever you like ... are just a bunch of lies hammered together to get votes. They are something politicians can conveniently dump once a party gains power. Economic targets missed, tax cuts delayed, promised referendums put off until some J. Wellington Wimpy future tuesday ... bottom line is that they are a crock of horse manure. So what does it matter that they don't have a detailed list of promises to break? And how, by the way, are your "big two" parties "manag[ing] welfare, the economy or other important issues"? Maybe a lot of folks are just voting for change, opting to give the new guy a shot.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

ukip may be a one trick pony but their one trick is the one no other party is willing to address and its getting them more and more votes

hyndburn even had a UKIP councilor for about 2 mins

hopefully in the next election we will have an elected government because since blair we havnt had one or should i say an elected priminister

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Our circus is about to begin as we

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

You guys are lucky ... we get a double dose: once in English and again in French:D

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Politics should not be a 'circus'. So we should need no clowns.

What you are saying, is that if the parties ceased to produce manifesto's then it would all be alright...we wouldn't feel so cheated(or at least that is what I think you are saying...I'm pretty sure you will enlighten me if I have got it wrong).
So how would you decide who to vote for in the absence of this pack of lies?
Do you vote for someone because of the banner they trade under....or what?

I prefer to think about who to vote for...to see if the values of the party sync with my core values.......I have never been someone who voted for a party just because it was Labour, or Tory, or Green.
Perhaps that is where I have gone wrong.
I sure as hell misread our current MP.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Well if they cannot win an election they are taking votes away from parties that might win.......as well as taking votes from the party that might lose and put someone who we don't want, in power. Dividing the vote.
The only way to avoid this is for there to be voting reform...proportional representation......I can't see that happening anytime soon.

What should really concern all parties is the disaffection for politics.
It doesn't matter who gets in...they haven't got the support of the majority, because the majority didn't vote.

There have been a number of times when I have trailed myself off to the polling station and written none of the above on the ballot paper......because the lot of them were a shower of Fisons.
It isn't that I am too idle, or apathetic, it is just that the people on the paper do not deserve to have my vote.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

The arrogance of labour is amazing, We will listen is complete BS. They think no-one is interested in an E.U. Referendum well most of my friends certainly are n Paris, who has a completely different circle of friends, tells me hers are the same, A simple fact like criminals, murderers, n the like come here, Human rights says if we find out we cannot kick em out. Well they shouldn't have been here in the first place, At least Cameron has had the good sense to promise one, even that is i n many others aint sure they will, But Labour - Sod All, If you think thats not ok on parties that may win Margaret, then we must disagree, I honestly do not want em to win as they are now.:mad:

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I am a firm believer in everyone voting. As far as I'm concerned anyone who does not vote should have no opinion at all on what ever the government or local council does. I am told that in Australia it is an offence not to vote and folk are fined for not doing so.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Cameron needs to have a pint with Farage and decide which seats UKIP will not stand and which the Tories will not, settle for a coalition with UKIP, re-arrange the parliamentary boundaries and that then screws Labour for the foreseeable future - LDs left to wither on the vine.
That way we will be sure of an In/Out referendum and the necessary border security.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

If I remember rightly Cashman, Cameron promised before the last election that is the Tories won he would give us a referendum on Europe so don't see why anyone would believe him this time round.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Thats why i said i aint sure they will deliver.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Yes, it is an offence not to vote in Oz.
I do not agree with your view that if you do not vote,then you have no right to an opinion.
The majority of people in this country do not vote.....and if a law was brought in to make them vote, would that make politicians better at listening to their constituents? I somehow don't think it would.

The reason many people do not vote is that they feel disaffected with politicians.
Their vote changes nothing so why bother?
This does not mean that they have no opinion.It means that their opinion is not considered by those who they voted for.

Politicians are so far removed from the real lives that their voters live....they might just as well be on another planet.
Everything is down to spin and sound bites, with precious little in the way of discernible action.
They talk the talk, but fail to walk the walk.

I have to believe in what those who want my vote tell me, before I can vote for them.
I vote with my conscience. I think about who I am voting for and consider what they can do to make life better for the common man.....if you can show me this person, I will consider casting my vote for them....until then I will continue to scribble on my ballot paper....none of the above.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Thats exactly why i'm voting UKIP, you choose to mess up yer ballot paper, your choice fair enough, my way is this.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Its a total myth that only tory voters are turning to UKIP, or that a vote for UKIP is a vote for Labour.

Last night Labour scraped home in its own heartland, thanks to massive activist involvement over the past week including almost 200 running around like lunatics yesterday banging on about how the tories weren't active in the area.

The victorious labour candidate suffered howls of derision as she began her prepared speech, obviously written by spin doctors expecting a resounding victory, and went on to deride the tories even though her closest rival was UKIP.

Milliband is claiming a victory, banging out a speech about tories being crap and labour being good whilst totally ignoring that UKIP pushed them within 600 votes, refusing to answer any media questions about people who want out of europe and controlled immigration and pretty much hiding behind the bookshelves in the library.

Speaking of the prepared speech from Heywood...check out the comment from the returning officer at 2.16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YijOvBcXWkQ

Currently the Labour party is dead in the water..they will lose the scottish contingent and every single northern seat will be up for grabs by UKIP next year....expect a U turn on immigration and Europe.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Wasn't it voted down in the House of Commons - didn't our MP say he would vote for a referendum and then became a turncoat at the vote because his Lord & Master - Mr Ed said "You will vote against the motion, F your electorate"

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Yup...Its the condescension from the Labour/Tory politicians that winds me up too. We know best...4 legs good, two legs better :mad:

The way they treat the voters as idiots who dont know what they are doing. What is it about these political dinosaurs that makes them think that Joe Public cant see right through their slimy horse manure statements and vote fishing manifestos that instantly disappear after the election. Do they really think that every voter is either a daily mail or a sun reader?

We have almost 50% of our local councillors who have reneged on their council tax and seek the protection of the Data Protection Act to hide behind. Those councillors that fought so hard to stop a Hyndburn retail park (Whitebirk), who now watch as their former allies at Burnley and Blackburn laughingly attract major retailers and have significant retail rebuilding ongoing, whilst Hyndburn now has a market hall shopper.

We have a County Council scrutiny committee who can find nothing wrong with spending £4 million on removing lighting on a section of motorway to save £10000 a year on the electric bill.

Yet somehow its Joe Public that are too thick to understand right from wrong...go figure :confused:

Re: Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I'm sorry to disappoint you but isn't a democratic society supposed to be built on freedom?
Freedom to speak, freedom to vote, freedom not to vote if you think they are all total toss pots?
I vote if I consider there is someone worth voting for otherwise I spoil my vote, I do this because I am allowed the freedom to choose.
I do think it important that we all make an effort.
However in a free society, even those that can't get off their arse and vote are entitled to an opinion.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Well Cashy, all power to your elbow.
I just cannot vote for someone I don't believe in......so we will just have to see who is put up in opposition to our incumbent MP.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I would like to see the ukip manifesto in print they remind me of the snp up here one trick ponies with no substance . They want to privatise the nhs, get rid of the national minimum wage somebody ask them for their policies on employment

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

It dont matter a jot, Labour cocked up big time n are still doing it,:rolleyes: The tories are doin the usual, destroy the working class, both need a good kick up the arse.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Speaking of no substance...what about that nugget EdM who you support holding a 3 minute press conference yesterday about engaging with voters then point blank refusing to answer any questions from them claiming he was too busy

If any party is 'one trick'..its the labour party who's only trick (just like yours) appears to be tory bashing

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Well you are not informed then lol i am not bashing anybody i just want to know the ukip policy on employment law?

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Perhaps its same as Labours on the E.U.? beggar all.:rolleyes:

Re: Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Whatever labours stance on EUROPEAN is, we've had it from the horses mouth that 95% of us are too dumb to be allowed to decide for ourselves and that it should be left to those that 'know'.
Perhaps, those that 'know' should take time out to ensure that we plebs are informed.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Still no answer? Ukip are doing a very bad impression of hating europe when most of their politicians are in the european parliament and taking their expenses and wages;) i still want to know what will be different if we left the European union, i have got an idea about employment law.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

This is a link to UKIP's 2010 General Election Manifesto :-
http://www.politicsresources.net/are...ifesto2010.pdf

I think you will struggle to find anything about their policy on employment law .

Perhaps Hyndburn's local UKIP politicians , Councillors Malcolm Pritchard and Paul Thompson will be able to enlighten you . :rolleyes:

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I really can't understand why all you 'plebs' keep wanting to have opinions, thinking what you think matters, keep wanting to have a say in how your country is run.
Manifestos are only words, once in power they're forgotten. It doesn't matter if UKIP have no proper manifesto, it wouldn't mean anything, any more than the Labour, Tory or Lib Dems manifestos mean anything.
The sooner you 'plebs' realise that you're plebs because you didn't go to Eaton and Cambridge, that you're not millionaires, the sooner you'll accept that you'll always be 'plebs'.
That will leave those who should be in power(and rightly are) to get on with doing what they know is best for them(and therefore best for you).
After all, they were born to be in power, educated to be in power and know they deserve to be in power. And underneath you know that too.
Now and again they'll let a few 'plebs' in Parliament, that's Democracy after all. As long as they're not allowed any real power they do no harm and it looks good. Frank Fielding for instance.Brilliant man kept down.
As for listening to you 'plebs'- why should they? They've never been and never will be 'plebs', they don't understand how you live but they don't need to. Communicating with you is just wasting their time(as Gordon Brown said when he forgot he was still being filmed). You wouldn't understand and they've already decided what's best for you. No need to tell you or Heaven forbid listen to you- you might start getting ideas of grandeur.
The sooner you all settle down, pay your taxes and let them get on with it, the better it will for them(and for you). If you're stuck there's always a food bank handy.
If you can't sleep at night just keep repeating to yourself 'They know best, they know best'. That way lies happiness.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Maybe one of our esteemed Labour councillors can comment on these ground breaking Labour ideas aired at the last conference

Lewis Silkin - Journal - Employment law at the party conferences - Labour

Wonder how much of our money will be squandered on the 'social background monitoring'....and just look at the well thought out proposed apprentice policy.

Note the concluding paragraph..light on substance, raft of new legislation for employers, disaster in practice....

Dont the Scots have a saying about chucking stones in greenhouses??

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Bringing nationality and generalising people isnt really a political debate se nigel farage is married to a german and has french name the irony lol still no answer on employment law

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Gordon, I think this post echoes the sentiments that Eric and I have posted.
What you are saying in a nutshell is that there is no democaracy.
This is also something I have been saying for a long time........That politicians are all the same.......whichever party flag they carry...again, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Well Farage aint a member of accyweb yeh clown, doubt very much if he reads it, if yeh want to know write n ask him, but NO yeh would rather be a joke on here.:rolleyes:

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

We all know ... at least those of us who have an IQ higher than that of a salad bar ... that political promises, like wedding vows,:D are "more honoured in the breach than in the observance." But what bugs my ass about politicians is that they "protest too much." ("Hamlet"'s getting quite a work out, eh.;)) If some candidate insists over and over that he is "honest" ... mmm "lying sonofabitch" comes to mind. And, over and over, they pledge themselves to do things that are part of their job. "I will represent you" ... that's what you are supposed to do you dumb mother ... that's why you are standing for election.:rolleyes:

But I still think that platforms are largely irrelevant. We all know, in a general sense, what we will get from a particular party. Let's take the tories: expect nothing positive on the environment; look for lower corporate taxes and larger loopholes; don't be surprised if some of their rank and file MPs support stricter limitations on abortions, and fewer concessions to gay couples; if you are poor, look to get poorer. So it ain't all that necessary to put forward specific ... mmm ... let's call them "lies".

Maybe UKIP appeals ... like the Scottish "Yes" campaign ... to the heart, rather than to reason. Britons don't want to lose their identity. They don't want that identity to be diluted in a what looks to become a more politically unified Europe (dominated by Germany:mad:).

I think I've mentioned this before, but I don't think Britons, particularly the English are Europeans. I don't know if UKIP is the right thing for the UK. But from what I read, they seem to be the only ones prepared to speak out for Britain as an idea and an ideal. This might just be enough to give them the balance of power after the next General Election.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Eric, it is no good having the balance of power if you have not a clue about what you are doing.
You have to have a map of the nail( a plan of attack) you cannot lead if you do not know where you are going...still less, if you don't know how to get there.

Ideals need actions to make them work.

If I am going to vote, I need to know what the man I am voting for stands for.
I need to know what plans are being made for the country...and where the little man figures in these plans.

there is a lot of work needed to foster interest in politics, to mend bridges(political ones)......and I cannot see that there is enough time between now and the next election to do all that needs to be done.
Ukip talk about taking us out of Europe, but unless they are elected in droves they will be in no position to have any impact on the issue.

As for us not being Europeans...that is spot on!

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

And that is precisely why people like you who spoil should instead vote the way you have been posting on this forum for years...

You want out of Europe...Jones won't do that (unless there is a change of leadership for him to brown nose), neither will whatever tory central government sees fit to impose on us yokels, the libdems will vote with whoever shares their sweet money with them...so logic dictates the only way you should vote is UKIP. And if people who for one reason or another stopped voting or spoil decided to actually vote next year maybe they would get elected in droves.

Stuff the one trick pony argument...government after government have abandoned their manifestos the moment they come to power anyway, as an example....the libdems totally backslid on almost every single promise they made to their voters to suck up to the tories four years ago

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I don't want a party led by Nigel Farage. They are no different to the other parties.....they have no discernible policies.....the other parties have policies that they lie about in their manifesto's.....but having no policies is just as bad.
How can you lead if you don't know how to get where you are going?

If I see a politician who is worthy of my cross in the box, then they will get it......but I was stung last time around. Believing someone who lived in the area, knew the area, had worked in the area.....someone who would know how important what his voters had invested in him....and what happened to that?
Well, it turns out that this person thinks more of his own political career than he does of his constituents.
Not only that, we are insulted by being told we do not have the brain power to decide what is good for us.
Until I see someone who I consider will is ten to the concerns of the little man.....I will continue to scribble 'none of the above' on my paper.
Believe me I do not do this lightly or without thought....but I have to follow my conscience.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Way I'm reading what you say is...

You wont vote for UKIP because its led by Farage who you dislike but if UKIP put someone up who you did like you would vote for him? You'd rather see Jones in again, no matter how disappointed you are with him rather than voting tactically to get him out.

You are NEVER going to find a politician who meets ALL of your criteria. Personally I'm a labconcommugreenlib in my political belief and I suspect that the majority of the population fall into a similar category..Our current electoral system with its first past the post mentality has not been relevant to its electorate since the advent of the information age..and the problem is that nothing will change as long as people stay at home or spoil their votes.

The libdems screwed the country 4 years ago..they could have forced real change to the system but they bottled for a bit of power...cant see Farage doing that for all his faults. UKIP is messing with the 'safe seat' premise and the two big parties are running scared....they will be looking to get the spoilers and non voters back into the fold with nonsense about one trick ponies, scaremongering about racism and fascism, and banging on about manifestos whilst ignoring their own

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

In the Federal Elections here in Oz it is NOT compulsory to vote however every Registered voter must have their name marked off the voting register, which is kept in the local constituants area , as having attended a voting booth, it has been suggested by some suspicious cynical people that some individuals have had their name marked off more than one Register enabling them to have multiple votes - what shameless accusations. Surely the human race would not stoop so low?

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Further to my comments about voting procedures in OZ.

By having their names marked off the Register they are then issued with the appropriate voting papers , however there is nothing to say that they must accept them or mark their choices off .

Personally I believe that voting should be compulsory, but then I also believe that if you migrate to a country either legally or not then you should obey the laws, and respect the culture of your adopted country.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Oh dear, it isn't quite as clear cut as you would think.
It isn't just that I dislike Nigel Farage(he reminds me of a dodgy used car salesman - but that's an aside).....I do not trust what he says.
And why would you vote for someone who says stop those with HIV from coming into the country.....it shows that he has not thought the ideas very well.

Now had he said something like 'anyone who wishes to make a home here and has a serious health issue needs to have health insurance' then that would have been more acceptable.....but he made a contentious statement.....one which could be considered inflammatory even......that is not a good start!

As for me not being able to find someone to vote for(given my exacting criteria).
I do not expect to find someone who meets all the criteria.

I suppose it is like looking for 'Mr Right'.
I would vote for someone who meets most of my core values.
Someone who is prepared to listen to the concerns of the electorate.
Someone who can demonstrate that they have some understanding of what the little man is battling.....that lives on this planet, that doesn't claim for renovations to a duck house while denying a living allowance for those suffering with life limiting illness.
What I am saying is that I would settle for 'Mr Right Some of the Time'.....someone who had some ideas that would translate into action....that knew where the country as a whole needed to be.
Someone who would stop sending aid money out to countries who do not need it.
Spend the money on educating our children, paying for cancer drugs, establishing youth employment strategies.....I could go on and on (as you have no doubt, probably guessed).
My banners colour.....none! I am one of those who is yet to be converted, to be convinced....but if no party has the gumption to listen then my voice is unheard, my vote is lost.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

As to the current voting format....with 'a first past the post' winner.
I covered that in post number 10.
I always stir my stumps and go to the polling station...so my sin isn't one of apathy....but I am sure that from the way I respond to political issues, you already know that.
I have long discussions with my daughter(who is another committed political animal) and I have heard all the arguments on the folly of spoiling my vote.....still my conscience prevails.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Being a mother I'm very rarely wrong :D

but I hold my hand up and admit that I have changed my views since the decision to give 16-18 year old teenagers a vote in the Scottish Referendum. The reason being is that most of them were taught not to close their ears and eyes and blindly put their cross on a piece of paper without first weighing up all the pros and cons. Quite often this isn't the case with older generations who align themselves to one party out of a perceived loyalty.

It's been interesting to see the break in a habit of a lifetime for thousands of voters now that the clarion call has got persistently louder of the need to unite "US" against "THEM" who purportedly are causing us more problems than we can handle.

Has anyone seen UKIP's proposals if ever they were to win a general election? The only manifesto I found is shown on the link below which mainly outlines how the UK would regain control of our seas, etc.

British tax payers money is given to members of the European market to do their best for us and I'm interested in how MY money is spent:

What interested me most was the admission made about current UKIP Members of the European Market:-

"Some of us go there" :
"We don't go there to make the EU better..."
"We go there ... making sure we know what they're up to"
"making sure we know what they're cooking up"

"Others spend more time back here spreading the word and campaigning to get us out".

Other than the above, there's no mention of how they will create markets for our industries which should be somewhere near the top of the list, e.g. The Tories reversed Labour's actions which closed many of our foreign embassies that had impacted on UK trade by cutting us off from prospective customers around the world.

The main message is that UKIP are not using my tax money to my advantage. They're not participating in making the Union a better partner but mainly to furnish an office in which to advertise their own political aims

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net...pdf?1398869254

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

I am in that older generation bracket....but I have never voted other than with my head...carefully considering the candidate and what they can do for the good of the country in their political party setting.
I listen to the information, I read information, I sift out what I think is the wheat from the chaff...then I decide.
I think this might be because my parents were not 'dyed in the wool' supporters of any particular political party.
I cannot vote with my heart...only with my head.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

In my mind Margaret UKIP will never get in power, But importantly the only way yeh will get these MPs of the big 2 to listen to the people, is if UKIP manage to scare em enough, They certainly will not change fer our benefit. Thats what i regard as voting wi my head.

Re: UKIP win a seat.
 

Well Cashy, all power to,your elbow.
If the polls are to be believed, then UKIP will force labour into third place......and will be in a position to form a coalition.
The problem with polls are that people frequently do not tell the truth.....and people change their minds.....sometimes waiting until they enter the polling booth to decide which way to vote.
Another problem with polls is that they only canvas a small section of the population.