Where is our NHS money going?
 

i ask this question because of an incident yesterday concerning my wife who is 81She had gone to her dentist for a regular checkup.She has a palette and a few of her own teeth left and the dentist gave her a cursory check over which lasted a couple of minutes.He then said that she needed a mouth wash and he would issue a prescription.Although because of her age the cost to my wife is nil, there must be considerable cost to the NHS.I don't know what a dentist charges for a consultation but it won't come cheap and then there was the added cost of writing the prescription. She then took the prescription to the chemist who would also make a charge to the NHS and the chemist finally walked to his display of remedies and took mouth wash from the shelf costing £1-29.I can't help feeling something is sadly wrong here.Any comments?

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I always pay for my paracetemol myself, for that very reason.
If I had asked my doc for them the cost would be excessive.

Another area where NHS prescription fraud is rife - people claiming to be exempt from charges when they should pay.
I suppose they justify their action because in Scotland and Wales they are free.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

You have to be on pension credits or some other benefits to get free dental treatment.
A check up for me at 68 costs just short of £20.....,if I need any treatment after my check up then that is charged on a 'band system' but the first band is £50 or thereabouts.

Much more worrying in relation to NHS costs is those who come from abroad and should be subject to costs, but fail to pay.
I know of some families who bring their elderly parents and grandparents into the country in order for them to get medical treatment without charge......and then when these are going home home go back with a bagful of medications for which they have paid nothing.
They tell the GP that they are going to be out of the country for 3 months or so......and prescriptions are issued.
You and I will only get a script for a month at a time.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I have packed mine in, its ridiculous, have had false teeth since i was 27, yet they still expect me to go n pay fer regular check ups, stupid when theres sod all wrong n i will obviously go if a problem develops.:mad:

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

then isnt it time they pay like everyone else

i am exempt through a medical condition but i fully understand why people tick the i dont have to pay box especially when the doctor prescribes 4 or 5 items

not saying is right but maybe if the welsh and scottish paid their way like the rest of us the prescription charges wouldnt have to be as high as they are and people would be less likely to defraud the system

mind you they would get all upset and want a referendum on leaving the UK but who then would pay for their prescriptions ?

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I think there is a small misunderstanding here. In mainland Britain there are three completely separate health bodies with their own separate budgets. In both Scotland and Wales the health services are devolved, which means that they take a slice of money from the devolved administrations budget. The amount they receive is locally determined, more money for health means less money for education, roads and whatever other services have been devolved.
Now you may think this is right or wrong but either way it has no influence on the NHS which operates only in England. Not only are the budgets locally determined but also the services offered, for example in Wales the prescriptions are free but there is no Cancer Drugs Fund. For details of the history and status of NHS Scotland see :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Scotland
Likewise for Wales:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Wales
Likewise for England
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_England

In brief three separate organisations with three separate budgets and three separate services.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

i think the misunderstanding comes from it been called the NATIONAL health service

clearly it isnt if that is the case

i think the UK needs to decide if it is united or not and either split the 4 countries or pull them all in under the same rules , laws , currency etc

somethings keeping scotland and wales tied to us but i dont think its their love of england so it must be something else

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Actually they were separate before devolution, Scotland from 1948, and Wales from 1969, not sure about Northern Ireland (too complicated!).

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

You forget The Barnett Formula.
Under this, from UK Government central funds, Scotland receives over £1600 more per person than England, Wales over £1200 per person more.
They don't have to spend less on other services, they've a lot more available to spend on the NHS or whatever services they wish to.
So yes, the English are subsidising free prescriptions in Scotland and Wales.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Like you, my husband has dentures. His dental checks are every two years.
He pays the same as me for his check, but because he only goes every two years it works out at round about ten quid a year....that is good value for money.
Spotting the signs of mouth cancer surely must be worth this small outlay.
I do not LIKE going to the dentist, but it is a necessary evil....and I now see that it is better to get treatment than trying do it yourself dentistry....the filing down of broken teeth is not to be recommended.(this is what I used to do before conquering my fear of the dentist).

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I had to go every 12 months, its the principal as far as i'm concerned, i paid N.I. all me working life plus all me dues n now i'm retired i have to pay the dentist, not in my lifetime.By the way ive been seeing a specialist oer 2yrs now oer me gob, so he will tell me, i see him every 6 months now, last time i paid the dentist they told me to see me doc, so whats the point?

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

No I didn't forget the Barnett Formula, that can be argued about endlessly. I simply wished to point out that there were three different setups and that the various trade-offs and priorities were determined locally. This setup might be right or wrong, I do not comment on that.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

im sure arguments could be put forward for both cases but my personal opinion is that scotland and wales get a lot more benefit been tied to us than we do to them

although scotland does get a good kicking every now and then from government when they want to try out a new tax like the poll tax for example.Seems most unpopular laws or taxes get tried out a year in advance in scotland and if the jocks roll over the government thinks the english will too

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

To me,our NHS seems to be deliberately being messed up to encourage privatisation.
My guess is our NHS money is going on holidays and Xboxes for those who desperately need these things in order to live with their illnesses that and the NHS tourists :(

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

What do you mean by privatisation?
The Hinchingbrooke hospital is run by a private company, but the care is still part of the NHS......and free at the point of service. So does that make it private or NHS?

This hospital has an excellent reputation for care and for making good use of resources, but the CQC were bamboozled into giving it a poor score...purely because it was run by a private company.

There is going to be private enterprise in some aspects of the health service......supplying consumables....the NHS uses companies that are in the business to make a profit.
Where money could be saved is in getting the best deal from companies by getting them to supply.....say, dressings.(just as an example, but there are many such supply issues)
Whichever company wins the contract is going to have huge volume sales to the NHS and if exclusivity can mean a better deal ( that means good quality at a reduced cost) then that is what should be aimed for.

The main problem is that the administration is expensive......agency care staff are expensive, locum doctors are expensive and companies know that when an agency nurse, or a locum doctor is required they have the service by the short and curlies.
The NHS is often slated by people who know nothing of the internal workings of this organisation.
Box ticking and target reaching should be abandoned.....they are not indicators of how the service runs, they are meaningless figures concocted to make Joe public feel like something is being done.....smoke and mirrors.
The NHS cannot be run like a supermarket....it is far too complex.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I mean when government cuts funding,and allows third parties to profit from our public services it can only be a bad thing.
In order for these companies to profit there has to be something that gives.

You know as well as I do that those in power would sell their own grannies if they seen there was a profit to be made :)

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

All businesses are in business to make a profit.

which cuts are you referring to and how is the private company running a service making a profit?
Are these firms charging the end user...or just billing the NHS?

I know that some surgical/diagnostic services have been contracted out to private hospitals(like Gisburn Park.....or Beardwood) and this is often done to remain on the tick list provided by the government.....so that targets are met. This isn't to provide for a CLINICAL NEED.
This is where money could be saved....ditching the targets and box ticking mentality.

Also local services are heavily tied into the Private Finance Initiative....this was something that the Labour administration thought would bamboozle Joe public into thinking that they were getting nice shiny new facilities......however, would you take on a debt that you didn't know how much it would cost in the long term?......one where you were tied into using Balfour Beattie services at exorbitant costs rather than your in house works department.....carpentry, electricians, plumbers etc?

Very many uneconomic(plain daft) decisions were taken by people in government which saddled hospitals with increasing bills......while at the same time trying to provide services for an aging community with poor socio economic backgrounds. Multi ethnicities complicate this still further.........so it was bound to end up in a mess.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I enjoy your wisdom on the topic M,I was referring to government cuts to the NHS in general.
All I'm saying is,the list of private companies that have a influence in our healthcare system is snowballing and I don't like it,government should be proud of it, not selling it off willy nilly.
Having spent time in both, private and NHS run hospitals, I know which I prefer and its not the one run by Branson and co.....The nhs run hospital had a better all round approach to care it and it even had more staff lurking about.
For now,I'll just keep my fingers crossed that I'm not sick at the weekend :D

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

i have, over the last couple of years, seen more of the insides and workings of the NHS than I want to.
While not all of my visits have been fantastic, very few have been anything you would complain about.
In the main, most of the care that has been delivered has been of the best quality.

Many people ramble on about the NHS and its failings.......many people talk about cuts.....without really qualifying what they mean.
I can only say what my own experiences have been.....and mainly these have been in hospital environments, both in my working life more recently as the relative of users of the service.

Over the years the NHS has been detrimentally meddled with by people who want to use the service as a political football, with no thoughts of consequences for the users.
These people who have meddled know absolutely diddley squat about how the NHS should be run and managed.
That has been the biggest problem over the years......and not one of political parties are exempt from blame. The last labour government spent money that we didn't have, but encouraged trusts to saddle themselves with unreasonable debts just so the debts did not appear on a government balance sheet.....did I hear you ranting and raving about that then?

The NHS is like a huge ocean going liner....it takes a long time (and a lot of effort) to turn it around.
One government would want you to do one thing......another one would get in and reverse these requirements.
There is far too much time spent ticking boxes, meeting targets....not letting clinically trained staff make policy decisions about what constitutes clinical need....it is all about what looks good on a balance sheet.
People are not tins of beans. You cannot run the NHS like a supermarket.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I get 3 monthly prescriptions when I ask for them for regular medicine.

This is why we should have ID cards in this country to prove we should be here and what we are entitled to. There is no sensible reason for not having ID cards, just paranoia from the tin foil hat wearing brigade

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

£80 million is spent on paracetomol according to this newspaper NHS spends on £80 million a year on paracetamol prescriptions - Telegraph


It says the cost can be 80 times what it can be bought for in the supermarket.

Here is a far out idea, why don't we allow the doctors to buy it from Asda and give it out instead of the prescription?

Far to much like common sense for the NHS

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Trouble is neil yeh can only buy 2 packets of 16 from supermarkets, docs would be there all day.:DI'm convinced theres a big fiddle going on, cos we all know how cheap certain things are.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I would imagine that the money spent on paracetamol is not just the folk taking scripts to the chemists...but much of that cost will be for the intravenous version of the drug...which is used extensively and successfully as IV post operative pain relief.

I cannot imagine anyone who pays for their meds to be daft enough to pay £8.20 for paracetamol.......at 16p a packet you could buy 51 packs for that amount......that is 102 days supply taken at the maximum dose.
The telegraph article makes it sound as though all this money is being spent for scripts handed over at local chemists.......but I think this may be a bit of journalistic licence.

Drugs which the NHS buys cheaply but get £8.20 a throw for subsidise the drugs which cost vastly more.

Hospitals are trying to minimise drug costs by getting patients to bring in and use their own meds from home.......this is something which I campaigned for when I was managing a ward......and lots of fake objections were put up as to why it could not be done.

As for ID cards......I do not want an ID card to prove I am entitled to my health care.
I have an NHS number that should be sufficient ID.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Did you make a formal complaint about this incident?
You should have done. These incidents need to be investigated.
Was the incident reported to the senior Nurse on duty?
On every ward there is a board which tells you who the person in charge is.
If you did not report it then here is entirely the wrong place to publicise your dissatisfaction.
It is both unfair and unreasonable, as you gave the staff in question no opportunity to put right the things you complain about....or even to put their side of the situation.
Also on discharge the hospital will supply medications to tide the patient over until,they see their own doctor.....these are called 'take home medicines'.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Last year I went into that place for a minor operation (keyhole). Operation late afternoon, 0220 following morning I was shivering so asked a nurse for another blanket - a few minutes later she returned to tell me there were none, and she went back into the Day Room (opposite my room), and continued to no doubt carry on with her gossiping with the other staff. Raging infection sorted by the day Sister and the Boss insisted that I be discharged that afternoon.
Incarcerated twice in that place - two infections and the first time I hadn't had an operation.
In a 10 day stay the ward floor was never mopped so what else isn't cleaned properly?????????????

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Again, may I ask if you made any complaint or mention of your concerns to the person in charge?
If you did not then you should have.
As I have said to Retlaw, this is not the place to air your dissatisfaction as nothing can be done to rectify any concerns.
Things can only be improved if mention is made of shortcomings.
When I was in charge of a unit, complaints were always looked into, the complainant was kept informed of the results of the investigation and what was done to rectify the problems highlighted.
There is a rigorous complaints protocol which staff have to comply with.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I would say to ANYONE who has had an unsatisfactory experience in hospital....REPORT IT.
if you do not then others may be subjected to similar treatment.
Let the hospital know when they are getting it wrong......if you do NOT tell them how are they supposed to know?
How are they supposed to put right what is wrong?
Everyone who has a good experience may tell no one.....but those who have an unhappy experience will tell as many people who will listen, but will fail to tell those who can put things right.
Now, do you think it is fair or reasonable for this to happen?
If you were doing something wrong, but nobody brought your inadequacies to your attention, but told everyone else....how would you feel about that?
I can tell you that the vast majority of staff who work in the local hospitals have their patients best interests at heart....but like all very large organisations, there will be the exception to test the rule.....these staff need to know and appreciate that they got it wrong.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

17 month ago my husband was in Blackburn for 3 weeks after an accident, I have nothing but praise for the staff from the day he was admitted to the day he was discharged. I know he probably gave them hell at times but they took it all in their stride.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Shame on you Retlaw for the derogatory way you speak of the nurses.(even if they did not come up to your standards.....you would hate for someone to speak of one of your daughters in such a way)
It is totally unwarranted and gives absolutely no weight to your post.
You could quite easily have made your point without name calling.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Yes Margaret, complained to the Day Sister - who was very nice and sorted me out with a/b drip and a blanket, and to the specialist, both of whom said they would deal with it - when you are feeling as bad as I was, form filling is the last thought on one's mind. What would have happened anyway - some departments there are crap but some are very good, and that is inevitably down to management - at all levels.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

I am very pleased to hear that you made your concerns clear to the person in charge.
Complaining requires no form filling(or at least it didn't while I was working).
Verbal complaints are treated in exactly the same way as written ones.......and you can always follow a verbal complaint up with a letter when you are feeling better......this ensures that you are informed of outcomes......which may not happen with just a verbal complaint.

As you may know my daughter was in the RBH for some five weeks, the care she had (in the main) was good, the place was clean.....in fact the floors were gleaming.
The staff (apart from one radiographer - he was reported) were kind and considerate.
They looked after my daughter like she was one of their family.

In May this year my dear old Ma had a heart attack and was in the Coronary Care Unit.
Likewise, the care could not be faulted.....and believe me when you have worked in the environment, you look for things that could be done better......I found nothing at all......this was not because any of the staff knew me, or knew my background, because they didn't.
the nurses worked their socks off. I never saw any of them doing anything other than delivering care to their patients. They did not have time to stand around gossiping.
The same can also,be said of those on the Cardiac ward.

As I said in a previous post, most nurses go into the job because they want to care for people.....they want to make a difference to the lives of those who are ill. They work very hard to achieve this. Sometimes circumstances will conspire against them.....but in the main they do a remarkable job.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Whenever I spend any time in a hospital I see things that are wrong. Often just a simple case of staff cutting corners or doing things they shouldn't be or maybe not doing things they should.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

Then if you see things that you think are staff cutting corners, you should report these observations to the person in charge.
Things only get better as a result of these incidents being brought to the attention of the person in charge.
If you see things that you feel are not right then by not reporting them you are allowing them to be perpetuated.

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

The person in charge should see the same things I do unless they are walking around with their eyes shut

Re: Where is our NHS money going?
 

But once you have brought an issue to the person in charge....they HAVE to do something about it.
A verbal complaint is treated in the same way as a written one.
If you say nothing then the person in charge...who cannot be everywhere at once......and may be off the ward area, can do nothing about it because they were not there..but you were. TELL them.

I was in charge of a unit...this consisted of two wards and three clinics. Now, however good I might think I am, I rely on others to do their job as they have been taught, but you and I both know that once there is (perceived) to be no-one watching, anything can happen. Every ward Sister delegates.....it is impossible not to.
I was always grateful to hear of any omissions, as it gave me the opportunity to tackle those who thought they could get away with things(and there ARE always a couple of back sliders...though most of those who ran wards knew who they were).
If someone brings an issue to you then it gives you the ammo to deal with it.

My mother was in the Coronary Care Unit for five or six days and in the cardiac ward for about the same. This was in May...so I consider this to be recent.
I watched the nurses work their socks off......this was MY experience.
If you have had a different experience then you should report it to the appropriate people...give them a chance to do something about it.
To do anything else is both unreasonable and unfair.