P C Phillips
 

Clayton Williams has been found guilty of the manslaughter of PC Phillips and ordered to serve 20 years. Manslaughter ? In my book it was murder. The judge has said today he recognised Williams did not deliberately attempt to cause serious harm but did deliberately drive the car at PC Phillips. What planet is he on? The officer was on the kerb and the vehicle was driven off the road directly at the officer. In my book if you drive a vehicle at high speed you know you are going to kill them so that equals murder.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Thing is i agree rowlf, but the scumbags got 20 yrs which is very harsh fer a manslaughter charge in my view, seems to me like the jury has done the pc a grave disservice n the judge has given him as long as he can fer such a charge?

Re: P C Phillips
 

if you deliberately drive your car at someone and they live it gets treated as attempted murder so if they die surely it is actual murder

one thing i will say is that it shouldn't matter if the victim is a copper or not the same should be applied evenly .Evenly should be life theres no need to get in to years and numbers they should stay in prison until they day they draw their last breath and if money and cost of keeping them is a factor i would rather see a murderer swing from a rope than get an early release

in cases like this where there is no doubt of guilt the death penalty could be used

Re: P C Phillips
 

I agree Accyman and its sounds Cashman that if you and I had been on that jury we would still have been there arguing the toss. I cannot for the life of me understand how they can think he did not intend to kill or seriously injure the poor man.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Its simple to me, society now considers the "Human Rights" of scum like that before the rights of a deceaseds family,we have become a nation of do-gooders,:(

Re: P C Phillips
 

Oh, come on folks.....this poor wee lad had a terrible upbringing......a deprived childhood.
A single mother who cared more about partying than teaching her son the difference between right and wrong.....And hand wringing, bleeding heart liberal judges who listen to this kind of drivel....though to be fair it was the jury who decided.....good job I was not on the jury with Rowlf and Cashy.....we would still be there now hammering it out.
So now this lad is going to be kept at our expense. He is going to be fed, kept warm, have no worries about any utility bills, council tax or anything like that.
He will likely be offered an opportunity to afford himself of an education that our own teens would have to go into debt for.
This is justice is it?

Re: P C Phillips
 

You can add me to that list of "Peers", looks like we'll be getting a hanging vote before to long.

Re: P C Phillips
 

In situations such as this one...where it is clear that the lad did what he was accused of.....where there can be no doubt about the who or the where...where it was caught on film.......this lad should be disposed of.
Nothing on God's green earth can convince me that he did not intend to kill this policeman...or that he thought that there was any chance of the policeman not suffering appalling injuries...his protestations that he was 'devastated' when he heard the man had died....and that he did not know what to do about it are all a load of bullshine.
That he was off his face on cannabis is no kind of excuse.
It is the innocent family of this policeman who will suffer.....every Christmas, every Birthday, every anniversary. He robbed this man of his life and should be paying for this with his own life......if this were the case then it might(just might) make others in similar situations think twice about their actions.

Re: P C Phillips
 

What did Clayton Williams expect the policeman to do whilst being driven at in a motor vehicle m- jump out of the way - shame, shame. shame Williams you deserved what you, got it should have been life.

Re: P C Phillips
 

No....not life, but perhaps a length of rope.
This lad won't be rehabilitated in prison.....he will not find remorse for his cowardly actions.....he will just be kept at our expense.
He deserves to live the most abject life....he should be forced every day to live in misery......the kind of misery this mans wife and family will experience for the rest of their lives.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Interesting to see all of the views. I am of the opinion that until society addresses the education of would-be parents, the undisciplined offspring will continue to be the scurge of global decency. Remove them at birth, deposit in an institution, and bring them up properly!!!

Re: P C Phillips
 

Although we have not heard the evidence, most of us probably think that the jury got it wrong. Is it time we looked at the jury system again? Has it outlived its usefulness? It is sometimes said, unkindly, that you are no longer judged by your peers, but by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury service. (Apologies to those who have done their duty, and perhaps enjoyed the experience.) Should the system perhaps be replaced by a judge sitting with 2 lay assessors, as in South Africa (although they reached the wrong verdict in the Pretorius case)? Such a system would be more efficient. quicker, and less expensive.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Having been summonsed for jury service myself last year, and managed to excuse myself [I have to add that this was not so easy to do], it left me considering at the time also, as to the whole jury system. I'm not sure that I could be so impartial to judge whatever the crime and thinking of the diverse views of 'joe public' however well educated, facing any jury appears to be akin to a lottery. Life, I feel, is full of winners and losers and we are all pawns in the game of a higher power.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Remove them at birth, deposit in an institution! That will work every time won't it?

There is no-one in this world that can be considered a perfect parent and it isn't always the uneducated that abuse and neglect children, there are many so called uneducated parents that give their love, time and dedicate their lives to giving their children the best life possible.

Also, how many times in recent history have we had newspaper reports about abuse and neglect within all sorts of institutes that are supposed to care for children many of whom have already suffered?

Re: P C Phillips
 

I have always lived in dread of being called for jury duty. My other half and my son have both done it in the past. I am surprised Daisybeth that you were excused the duty. I have known others who for whatever reason asked to excused but were given an alternate date not let off altogether.

Re: P C Phillips
 

I don't live in dread of jury duty, if I'm ever called I'll go responsibly and put up with whatever it incurs, I suspect the reason I've never been called is that those in charge don't know their alphabet all the way to W, for my surname whereas my mate whose name starts with B has been called 3 times, he even ended up in charge head Mon or whatever they call the guy in charge at a murder trial, ducking under is as irresponsible as never getting your arse into gear to vote.

Re: P C Phillips
 

I have never been called, but during my working life I believe I was exempt.
My mum did Jury service and loved it.

Re: P C Phillips
 

does this mean they prefer to have a barsterward on a jury than a W........

err winkle picker ?

Re: P C Phillips
 

Nope it just means what I said read as much as you wish into it, otherwise accyman on a jury could possibly mean arsehole if picked, Yukk no lets not go there pick your own!

Re: P C Phillips
 

When I said I have lived in dread that does not mean I would not have gone as requested if summoned. I regard it as my duty like voting. I will not be asked now as I am too old.

Re: P C Phillips
 

lol you know me so well :D

Re: P C Phillips
 

I can't see anything wrong with the jury system ... if there are any obvious miscarriages of justice or over-lenient sentences, it is usually the fault of the professionals in the case: the Crown, the defence, or the trial judge. And then there is the appeal process to back up the lower courts should they fail to conform to the law, or just generally make a fubar of the whole issue. Jurors, and this is why the jury selection process is important, can't just decide on a whim that someone is guilty or not; they have to consider the evidence and the trial judge's charge.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Eric, you cannot see anything wrong with the jury system because you have the power of critical thought and analysis....this is something which is probably less common in the population today(though I know that is a sweeping generalisation) but when you see the comments made on social media, twitter and the like, it really does make you wonder about the intellect(or lack of it) of some people today.

Re: P C Phillips
 

From what I have read, I don't think the jury got it wrong. And if an appeal hasn't yet been lodged, either by the Crown or the defense, the jury must have done what a jury is supposed to do: weigh the evidence, follow the charge of the judge, and reach a verdict. The 20 year sentence seems appropriate, by the way.

And I have a question: does an accused have the right to elect trial by jury, or trial by judge alone? Here's a very recent case from over here in the colonies ... a case in which either a guilty or innocent verdict would cause massive amounts of feces to his the swiftly rotating object ... a case in which the accused elected trial by judge alone.

Jian Ghomeshi found not guilty on choking and all sex assault charges - Toronto - CBC News

By the way, what is your take on this one ... I would like the other side of the pond view;)

Re: P C Phillips
 

I don't think that the accused has a choice in such cases.
But if I am wrong I am sure there will be someone along in a minute to tell us.
I would not like to make judgements on the case you have posted a link to.
I think you would have to be in court, hear all of the evidence before you can make a call.
Ha! I hear you say.....we're you in court for the Clayton Williams case?
No....I wasn't, but I did see the video footage of the policeman being run down.
I cannot believe that anyone could do such a thing and expect the man to survive.....or not to be inflicted with injuries so severe that his life was(in effect) over.
Is 20 years long enough?
Well, that depends. If this guy does not get released for 20 years then it might be(well except that of course we are picking up the bill for keeping this worm).....but if he does not serve all of the sentence then No...it is not enough.
If it were up to me, this guy would spend every waking moment moving huge rocks by hand from one side of a compound to the other.....and then moving them back again the following day.
Make prison hostile and inhospitable.....then maybe they would be less popular places to be.....and criminals may change their ways.
Get rid of the hand wringing liberals who want to give these guys a soft time.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Some say severe imprisonment dont work, well i ask the question, When there was P.D. "preventative detention " as a sentence, was the prison population more or less?

Re: P C Phillips
 

Removing a persons freedom doesn't work if that is all that is done.
Maybe a person is incarcerated, but their life is frequently better in prison....they have no responsibility to look after financial things, their meals are provided, they have a roof over their head, they have health, education and recreational facilities, they can socialise.
Where is the deprivation in that...Apart from being removed from their family.
Many old age pensioners would like to be looked after in such a way.....but they aren't.
Prison doesn't work because it isn't a hard life anymore.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Well said Margaret. I dont think there should be televisions in cells either. One in a communal room ok perhaps. It is far too cushy. Shifting rocks or similar would be a good idea. I would be in favour of chain gangs like the States and make them build roads or some other manual work. I still do not understand why when a sentence is given they only serve half ? what is the point of that ? In this case I believe 20 years was the maximum that could be given for manslaughter.Clearly the law needs altering.

Re: P C Phillips
 

Hmmm, yes well, when the prison service really kicked off we had more or less the same buildings, people imprisoned had to wear masks and were not allowed to talk to each other and given ridiculous and useless tasks to perform. I think it was called hard labour.
It was no use to the prisoners or society, plus, on finishing a sentence society wouldn't allow them to work because of them having the stigma of being a jail bird. (that obviously lead them back to crime).

Now we seem to have gone too far in the opposite direction, ordinary folk that have never been caught doing wrong, are second class citizens any training placement goes to the ex con, their probation officer bends over backwards on coming out to find them employment (whether they are up to it or not) making sure they get preferential over the poor beggars with equal qualifications/age and intellect.

Do the crime serve the time fair enough, after that they come out with a clean slate but deffo' not preferential treatment, let them join the back of the queue and prove they are capable of the work offered. There isn't much of it to go around.

Re: P C Phillips
 

The thing is this lad cited his poor upbringing and lack of education as being partly responsible for him leading a life of crime........many of us in society had hard lives and were poor....but we did not resort to crime.
For most of us it made us strive harder to make something of our lives. And NO, of course this was not easy...but anything that is easy is hardly worth doing.

Clayton Williams was reported to have been smoking cannabis since the age of six.......how did that happen.....when social service can take children from parents for the flimsiest of reasons yet this lad was left with a mother who obviously had no idea of parental responsibility.......where did he get the cannabis? Where did he go to smoke it?
Why were his teachers not suspicious of this...there must have been signs that he was doing this. I am led to believe that cannabis has a pungent odour....but nobody noticed it on him as a child?
Something somewhere isn't right, that is for sure.

The real victims are the wife and two children of the police officer

Re: P C Phillips
 

Isnt it the same with everything these days. People do not take responsibility for their own actions but shift the blame onto someone or something else.

Re: P C Phillips
 

you are right. Everyone knows about their rights, but with these rights come responsibilities......you have to take responsibility for your actions.Every action we make has consequences. it seems that children these days are not taught about consequences.
The little darlings can do as they please regardless of what effect this might have on others.